- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. There is not consensus in this discussion to move the article but there is substantial support for a move (with the most support for List of Mario video games); feel free to start an immediate follow-up RM proposal. (non-admin closure) User:力 (power~enwiki, π, ν) 01:20, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
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- List of video games featuring Mario ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
I'm not really sure why an article contains only about list, but incomplete needed an article. Isn't this what you call WP:Gamecruft? GeeJay24 ( talk) 07:04, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- Comment There are loads of list articles on WP. (Just type in "List of" into the search box. Why should this one be deleted? Fieryninja ( talk) 07:30, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- This one is entirely unsourced and incomplete. Seeing how popular Mario is, the list wont be completed sooner than we thought.
GeeJay24 (
talk)
07:39, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- Keep Well considering the popularity of Mario, it is reasonable to say that this list has notability. I think the list should be kept, expanded and citations added. There is no deadline for when this needs to be completed. All content on WP is incomplete to a certain extent. If you think it is incomplete, you could add the missing the games with the citations. Fieryninja ( talk) 07:45, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- This one is entirely unsourced and incomplete. Seeing how popular Mario is, the list wont be completed sooner than we thought.
GeeJay24 (
talk)
07:39, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Video games-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 07:37, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 07:37, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- Rename back to List of Mario video games and tighten inclusion criteria. This is currently gamecruft but it doesn't have to be. ZXCVBNM ( TALK) 07:45, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- Move to List of Mario video games and remove all entries that aren't in the actual Mario series. Nothing more to add, a whole list of Mario games is certainly notable, but as it is right now...a pure WP:GAMECRUFT. Jovanmilic97 ( talk) 10:30, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- Keep. There's a reason it is no longer called List of Mario video games. What constitutes the Mario franchise is not at all clear-cut and attempting to define this is subjective and non-neutral. The most objective approach is to list the works character has appeared in. There are already articles on the Super Mario, Mario Kart, and Mario Party series, etc. Ozdarka ( talk) 12:14, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- move and restrict to List of Mario games. Is there any sources talking about this list of games? Fails WP:LISTN Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 13:03, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- Delete as is, per WP:INDISCRIMINATE. Something more finite, like a series list of games like List of Super Mario games, could be created in the vein of List of Sonic the Hedgehog games, but merely listing every game Mario has ever made an appearance in is too close to WP:GAMECRUFT. Sergecross73 msg me 13:22, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- Weak Keep per
Ozdarka,but remove the games that only have Mario as a cameo like this list's two versions of Minecraft and add sources. Imma admit though that I don't know enough about
WP:GAMECRUFT even after reading it to say a solid "keep", which is why I said weak keep.
Rexh17 (
talk)
20:34, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- Comment I wouldn't mind if this article was incubated as well Rexh17 ( talk) 20:35, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- Agreed. It's objectively not ready for mainspace if it's unsourced. Sergecross73 msg me 22:07, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- Move to List of Mario video games and remove games that aren't part of the franchise. 2601:241:300:B610:A416:59B2:7C25:2FF ( talk) 21:45, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- Keep deciding what is a Mario game is kinda muddy. If we go with just "List of Mario games" we're gonna argue forever about whether to list Yoshi's Island games, Super Princess Peach, etc. DemonDays64 ( talk) 02:51, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
- Its actually very easy to set up inclusion criteria like for situations like this. Something as simple as "Mario must be in the game's title" would cut out a majority if these trivial entries on the list.
Sergecross73
msg me
03:42, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
- Yea, but they'd also cut games that should arguably be on this list like some of the Donkey Kong games and like @ DemonDays64 said, the Yoshi Island games. it's not quite that simple to come up with a criteria. Rexh17 ( talk) 15:11, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
- Its actually very easy to set up inclusion criteria like for situations like this. Something as simple as "Mario must be in the game's title" would cut out a majority if these trivial entries on the list.
Sergecross73
msg me
03:42, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
- Keep Though I would support a merge. Azuredivay ( talk) 06:52, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
- Move As many others have stated, I believe that this article should be kept due to the significance of the Mario franchise, but moved to List of Mario games as to only include games where Mario has a major appearance (main protagonist, main antagonist) and get rid of smaller appearances and cameos that feel more like trivia. It could be a little messy, but it could obviously be discussed in the future, if this article is moved. ArojamDharkon ( talk) 20:40, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
- Comment from list creator (merger) - I haven't made up my mind if this should even exist in the 10 or so years since I made it; for some context, there were originally three lists: "List of Mario games by year / by genre / by console". This was unecessarily confusing for readers and unmanageable so I took a weekend and merged it all into a single list with a sortable table so that any of the criteria can be used to sort the games. The reasons why it's "List of games featuring Mario" instead of "List of Mario games" is specifically, as DemonDays64 & Ozdarka highlighted, the difficulty in narrowing what is "a Mario game", what is a "significant appearance". Sergecross73's idea to restrict to games with Mario in the title is not a terrible idea, but Isn't Donkey Kong (video game) a Mario game? Yoshi's Safari? What about SSX On Tour or Luigi's Mansion 3? Golf (1984 video game), Wrecking Crew (video game), Famicom Grand Prix II: 3D Hot Rally (peep that coverart)? And moreover, do you think it's a net improvement to invite these debates and arguments to become a recurring thing around this list article? Ben · Salvidrim! ✉ 18:27, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
- Keep but pare down to only those significant appearances (so, no SSX On Tour or things like that); this is, after all, a list of video games featuring Mario. And games like the Luigi's Mansion series, the Yoshi's Island games, Super Princess Peach, and the Donkey Kong games would be left out if the list were only pared to "Mario games," as folks have said above. If we want a literal list of "Mario games," we could separate those out within this article: have one section on literal Mario games, one section on significant appearance in spinoffs/other games, and one on lesser (but non-cameo) appearances in other games. Black Yoshi ( Yoshi! | Yoshi's Eggs) 20:30, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
- Either rename and tighten the inclusion criteria per ZXCVBNM or delete as too broad list of trivia. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 09:05, 14 October 2021 (UTC)
- Keep Showing how many games this notable character has been in, and linking to the articles for those games, is a valid navigational list and also just a valid stand alone list as reliable sources cover this. https://www.washingtonpost.com/video-games/2020/05/06/every-mario-game-ranked/ Dream Focus 21:29, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. There is not consensus in this discussion to move the article but there is substantial support for a move (with the most support for List of Mario video games); feel free to start an immediate follow-up RM proposal. (non-admin closure) User:力 (power~enwiki, π, ν) 01:20, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- List of video games featuring Mario ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
I'm not really sure why an article contains only about list, but incomplete needed an article. Isn't this what you call WP:Gamecruft? GeeJay24 ( talk) 07:04, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- Comment There are loads of list articles on WP. (Just type in "List of" into the search box. Why should this one be deleted? Fieryninja ( talk) 07:30, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- This one is entirely unsourced and incomplete. Seeing how popular Mario is, the list wont be completed sooner than we thought.
GeeJay24 (
talk)
07:39, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- Keep Well considering the popularity of Mario, it is reasonable to say that this list has notability. I think the list should be kept, expanded and citations added. There is no deadline for when this needs to be completed. All content on WP is incomplete to a certain extent. If you think it is incomplete, you could add the missing the games with the citations. Fieryninja ( talk) 07:45, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- This one is entirely unsourced and incomplete. Seeing how popular Mario is, the list wont be completed sooner than we thought.
GeeJay24 (
talk)
07:39, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Video games-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 07:37, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 07:37, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- Rename back to List of Mario video games and tighten inclusion criteria. This is currently gamecruft but it doesn't have to be. ZXCVBNM ( TALK) 07:45, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- Move to List of Mario video games and remove all entries that aren't in the actual Mario series. Nothing more to add, a whole list of Mario games is certainly notable, but as it is right now...a pure WP:GAMECRUFT. Jovanmilic97 ( talk) 10:30, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- Keep. There's a reason it is no longer called List of Mario video games. What constitutes the Mario franchise is not at all clear-cut and attempting to define this is subjective and non-neutral. The most objective approach is to list the works character has appeared in. There are already articles on the Super Mario, Mario Kart, and Mario Party series, etc. Ozdarka ( talk) 12:14, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- move and restrict to List of Mario games. Is there any sources talking about this list of games? Fails WP:LISTN Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 13:03, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- Delete as is, per WP:INDISCRIMINATE. Something more finite, like a series list of games like List of Super Mario games, could be created in the vein of List of Sonic the Hedgehog games, but merely listing every game Mario has ever made an appearance in is too close to WP:GAMECRUFT. Sergecross73 msg me 13:22, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- Weak Keep per
Ozdarka,but remove the games that only have Mario as a cameo like this list's two versions of Minecraft and add sources. Imma admit though that I don't know enough about
WP:GAMECRUFT even after reading it to say a solid "keep", which is why I said weak keep.
Rexh17 (
talk)
20:34, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- Comment I wouldn't mind if this article was incubated as well Rexh17 ( talk) 20:35, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- Agreed. It's objectively not ready for mainspace if it's unsourced. Sergecross73 msg me 22:07, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- Move to List of Mario video games and remove games that aren't part of the franchise. 2601:241:300:B610:A416:59B2:7C25:2FF ( talk) 21:45, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
- Keep deciding what is a Mario game is kinda muddy. If we go with just "List of Mario games" we're gonna argue forever about whether to list Yoshi's Island games, Super Princess Peach, etc. DemonDays64 ( talk) 02:51, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
- Its actually very easy to set up inclusion criteria like for situations like this. Something as simple as "Mario must be in the game's title" would cut out a majority if these trivial entries on the list.
Sergecross73
msg me
03:42, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
- Yea, but they'd also cut games that should arguably be on this list like some of the Donkey Kong games and like @ DemonDays64 said, the Yoshi Island games. it's not quite that simple to come up with a criteria. Rexh17 ( talk) 15:11, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
- Its actually very easy to set up inclusion criteria like for situations like this. Something as simple as "Mario must be in the game's title" would cut out a majority if these trivial entries on the list.
Sergecross73
msg me
03:42, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
- Keep Though I would support a merge. Azuredivay ( talk) 06:52, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
- Move As many others have stated, I believe that this article should be kept due to the significance of the Mario franchise, but moved to List of Mario games as to only include games where Mario has a major appearance (main protagonist, main antagonist) and get rid of smaller appearances and cameos that feel more like trivia. It could be a little messy, but it could obviously be discussed in the future, if this article is moved. ArojamDharkon ( talk) 20:40, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
- Comment from list creator (merger) - I haven't made up my mind if this should even exist in the 10 or so years since I made it; for some context, there were originally three lists: "List of Mario games by year / by genre / by console". This was unecessarily confusing for readers and unmanageable so I took a weekend and merged it all into a single list with a sortable table so that any of the criteria can be used to sort the games. The reasons why it's "List of games featuring Mario" instead of "List of Mario games" is specifically, as DemonDays64 & Ozdarka highlighted, the difficulty in narrowing what is "a Mario game", what is a "significant appearance". Sergecross73's idea to restrict to games with Mario in the title is not a terrible idea, but Isn't Donkey Kong (video game) a Mario game? Yoshi's Safari? What about SSX On Tour or Luigi's Mansion 3? Golf (1984 video game), Wrecking Crew (video game), Famicom Grand Prix II: 3D Hot Rally (peep that coverart)? And moreover, do you think it's a net improvement to invite these debates and arguments to become a recurring thing around this list article? Ben · Salvidrim! ✉ 18:27, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
- Keep but pare down to only those significant appearances (so, no SSX On Tour or things like that); this is, after all, a list of video games featuring Mario. And games like the Luigi's Mansion series, the Yoshi's Island games, Super Princess Peach, and the Donkey Kong games would be left out if the list were only pared to "Mario games," as folks have said above. If we want a literal list of "Mario games," we could separate those out within this article: have one section on literal Mario games, one section on significant appearance in spinoffs/other games, and one on lesser (but non-cameo) appearances in other games. Black Yoshi ( Yoshi! | Yoshi's Eggs) 20:30, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
- Either rename and tighten the inclusion criteria per ZXCVBNM or delete as too broad list of trivia. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 09:05, 14 October 2021 (UTC)
- Keep Showing how many games this notable character has been in, and linking to the articles for those games, is a valid navigational list and also just a valid stand alone list as reliable sources cover this. https://www.washingtonpost.com/video-games/2020/05/06/every-mario-game-ranked/ Dream Focus 21:29, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.