- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. To me, this just seems like an "it's notable!" "no it isn't!" "yes it is!" shouting match. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 12:53, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
List of shopping malls in Angola
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- List of shopping malls in Angola ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
No notable entries, fails WP:LISTN Ajf773 ( talk) 08:13, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions. Ajf773 ( talk) 08:13, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Ajf773 ( talk) 08:13, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Shopping malls-related deletion discussions. Ajf773 ( talk) 08:13, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- Keep Contains notable entries, nomination fails WP:BEFORE, WP:IGNORINGATD, &c. Andrew🐉( talk) 09:50, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- You literally just added those five entries after I created the AfD. Only one has an article and even that has questionable notability. The rest are just bare mentions in another source. Ajf773 ( talk) 10:20, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- As noted in the similar AFD recently, we need a List of shopping malls in Africa to merge these to where the countries have a small number of notable entries. Those countries that have enough to merit standalone lists can just be linked to from that continent-wide list. postdlf ( talk) 22:06, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- Keep passes WP:LISTN Wm335td ( talk) 02:08, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
- WP:VAGUEWAVE. Explain HOW it passes WP:LISTN please. Ajf773 ( talk) 02:49, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
- Apologies. My reading of LISTN (
Lists that fulfill recognized informational, navigation, or development purposes often are kept regardless of any demonstrated notability.
In my opinion the list fulfills the purposes of aiding reader's navigation, and providing information. Wm335td ( talk) 17:25, 21 August 2020 (UTC)- One blue-link is not doing a lot for aiding navigation.
Ajf773 (
talk)
20:04, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
- (
Lists that fulfill recognized informational ...purposes
Wm335td ( talk) 19:05, 22 August 2020 (UTC)- Wikipedia is not a platform for free advertising non-notable businesses. Ajf773 ( talk) 22:02, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
- (
- One blue-link is not doing a lot for aiding navigation.
Ajf773 (
talk)
20:04, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
- Apologies. My reading of LISTN (
- Delete. I don't see any reliable source that covers such a list outside tourist guides, which are low quality, and anyway, that's Wikivoyage stuff. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 05:01, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
- Notice that List of shopping malls in Poland has zero sources of any sort. And I expect that's the case for many or most countries, all of which have such a list. What the nay-sayers fail to explain is why we should single out African countries for systemic bias – see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of shopping malls in Egypt. Andrew🐉( talk) 10:18, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
- And if you expect I will display some patriotic feelings and run to save the Polish list, you are mistaken. I'd be happy to vote delete on it too. Those lists are really getting out of hand, per WP:INDISCRIMINATE. The navigational template like Template:Shopping_malls_in_Poland plus categories are quite sufficient for me. Now, if there are sources to satisfy LISTN, maybe we could try to rescue some, but so far, as you say, most of those lists are woefully undersourced. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 12:41, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
- It can’t simultaneously be fine as a nav template and category yet indiscriminate as a list when they all have the same scope. I personally have little use for nav templates that you can’t annotate like lists, you don’t seem to like lists, to each their own. All of these methods of indexing coexist per WP:NOTDUP. postdlf ( talk) 20:10, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
-
Piotrus, it's not the first time he's made this
insinuation of racism. It shouldn't be necessary to make snide personal comments on any AfD.
Reyk
YO!
07:12, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
-
Reyk Obviously, but what can we do about it?
WP:CIV is a dead policy. --
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
10:51, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
-
Piotrus, I wouldn't say it is completely dead, just enforced onesidedly. Suppose, for the sake of argument, that you wrote a bunch of articles that I thought were a load of crap. If I brought them to AfD with the same sort of thinly veiled implication that you're editing from a Polish nationalist viewpoint, I'd be raked over the coals at ANI and rightly so. Yet somehow "Keep- of course Poland McPolandface isn't nominating lists of malls in his country for deletion" is allowed to pass without raising an eyebrow.
WP:NPA is for protecting pseudo-civil snark, not the likes of us.
Reyk
YO!
15:48, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
- Reyk I think you are right. If you ever decide to file an ANI complain or such don't hesitate to ping me and I'll add my two cents. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:31, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
-
Piotrus, I wouldn't say it is completely dead, just enforced onesidedly. Suppose, for the sake of argument, that you wrote a bunch of articles that I thought were a load of crap. If I brought them to AfD with the same sort of thinly veiled implication that you're editing from a Polish nationalist viewpoint, I'd be raked over the coals at ANI and rightly so. Yet somehow "Keep- of course Poland McPolandface isn't nominating lists of malls in his country for deletion" is allowed to pass without raising an eyebrow.
WP:NPA is for protecting pseudo-civil snark, not the likes of us.
Reyk
YO!
15:48, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
-
Reyk Obviously, but what can we do about it?
WP:CIV is a dead policy. --
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
10:51, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
-
Piotrus, it's not the first time he's made this
insinuation of racism. It shouldn't be necessary to make snide personal comments on any AfD.
Reyk
YO!
07:12, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
- Keep for the same reasons as Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of shopping malls in Egypt. pburka ( talk) 20:20, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
- Keep A list of shopping malls in any country would undoubtedly meet WP:LISTN. Redundancy between navboxes/categories and lists isn't a bad thing and even encouraged by WP:NOTDUPE. SD0001 ( talk) 16:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- How do you figure that? For a list to pass WP:LISTN there needs to be a considerable number of notable entries or a list that is notable as a set. We're not seeing that in this article. Ajf773 ( talk) 21:25, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- No, WP:LISTN says nothing about a "considerable number" or anything like it. What it expects is that it "has been discussed as a group or set". We have this in this case in sources such as New shopping malls: A sign of Angola's rising middle class. Q.E.D.. Andrew🐉( talk) 17:20, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
- There are no mentions of any particular shopping malls in that article, there is a photograph of the Africa Mall, that's all. Ajf773 ( talk) 20:47, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
- And the Africa Mall is a particular mall. The article mainly talks about the malls as a group or set but that's fine because that's exactly what LISTN expects. Andrew🐉( talk) 21:49, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
- A particular insignificant mall. Ajf773 ( talk) 01:56, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. To me, this just seems like an "it's notable!" "no it isn't!" "yes it is!" shouting match. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 12:53, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
List of shopping malls in Angola
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- List of shopping malls in Angola ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
No notable entries, fails WP:LISTN Ajf773 ( talk) 08:13, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions. Ajf773 ( talk) 08:13, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Ajf773 ( talk) 08:13, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Shopping malls-related deletion discussions. Ajf773 ( talk) 08:13, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- Keep Contains notable entries, nomination fails WP:BEFORE, WP:IGNORINGATD, &c. Andrew🐉( talk) 09:50, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- You literally just added those five entries after I created the AfD. Only one has an article and even that has questionable notability. The rest are just bare mentions in another source. Ajf773 ( talk) 10:20, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- As noted in the similar AFD recently, we need a List of shopping malls in Africa to merge these to where the countries have a small number of notable entries. Those countries that have enough to merit standalone lists can just be linked to from that continent-wide list. postdlf ( talk) 22:06, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- Keep passes WP:LISTN Wm335td ( talk) 02:08, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
- WP:VAGUEWAVE. Explain HOW it passes WP:LISTN please. Ajf773 ( talk) 02:49, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
- Apologies. My reading of LISTN (
Lists that fulfill recognized informational, navigation, or development purposes often are kept regardless of any demonstrated notability.
In my opinion the list fulfills the purposes of aiding reader's navigation, and providing information. Wm335td ( talk) 17:25, 21 August 2020 (UTC)- One blue-link is not doing a lot for aiding navigation.
Ajf773 (
talk)
20:04, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
- (
Lists that fulfill recognized informational ...purposes
Wm335td ( talk) 19:05, 22 August 2020 (UTC)- Wikipedia is not a platform for free advertising non-notable businesses. Ajf773 ( talk) 22:02, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
- (
- One blue-link is not doing a lot for aiding navigation.
Ajf773 (
talk)
20:04, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
- Apologies. My reading of LISTN (
- Delete. I don't see any reliable source that covers such a list outside tourist guides, which are low quality, and anyway, that's Wikivoyage stuff. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 05:01, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
- Notice that List of shopping malls in Poland has zero sources of any sort. And I expect that's the case for many or most countries, all of which have such a list. What the nay-sayers fail to explain is why we should single out African countries for systemic bias – see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of shopping malls in Egypt. Andrew🐉( talk) 10:18, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
- And if you expect I will display some patriotic feelings and run to save the Polish list, you are mistaken. I'd be happy to vote delete on it too. Those lists are really getting out of hand, per WP:INDISCRIMINATE. The navigational template like Template:Shopping_malls_in_Poland plus categories are quite sufficient for me. Now, if there are sources to satisfy LISTN, maybe we could try to rescue some, but so far, as you say, most of those lists are woefully undersourced. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 12:41, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
- It can’t simultaneously be fine as a nav template and category yet indiscriminate as a list when they all have the same scope. I personally have little use for nav templates that you can’t annotate like lists, you don’t seem to like lists, to each their own. All of these methods of indexing coexist per WP:NOTDUP. postdlf ( talk) 20:10, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
-
Piotrus, it's not the first time he's made this
insinuation of racism. It shouldn't be necessary to make snide personal comments on any AfD.
Reyk
YO!
07:12, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
-
Reyk Obviously, but what can we do about it?
WP:CIV is a dead policy. --
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
10:51, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
-
Piotrus, I wouldn't say it is completely dead, just enforced onesidedly. Suppose, for the sake of argument, that you wrote a bunch of articles that I thought were a load of crap. If I brought them to AfD with the same sort of thinly veiled implication that you're editing from a Polish nationalist viewpoint, I'd be raked over the coals at ANI and rightly so. Yet somehow "Keep- of course Poland McPolandface isn't nominating lists of malls in his country for deletion" is allowed to pass without raising an eyebrow.
WP:NPA is for protecting pseudo-civil snark, not the likes of us.
Reyk
YO!
15:48, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
- Reyk I think you are right. If you ever decide to file an ANI complain or such don't hesitate to ping me and I'll add my two cents. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:31, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
-
Piotrus, I wouldn't say it is completely dead, just enforced onesidedly. Suppose, for the sake of argument, that you wrote a bunch of articles that I thought were a load of crap. If I brought them to AfD with the same sort of thinly veiled implication that you're editing from a Polish nationalist viewpoint, I'd be raked over the coals at ANI and rightly so. Yet somehow "Keep- of course Poland McPolandface isn't nominating lists of malls in his country for deletion" is allowed to pass without raising an eyebrow.
WP:NPA is for protecting pseudo-civil snark, not the likes of us.
Reyk
YO!
15:48, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
-
Reyk Obviously, but what can we do about it?
WP:CIV is a dead policy. --
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
10:51, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
-
Piotrus, it's not the first time he's made this
insinuation of racism. It shouldn't be necessary to make snide personal comments on any AfD.
Reyk
YO!
07:12, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
- Keep for the same reasons as Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of shopping malls in Egypt. pburka ( talk) 20:20, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
- Keep A list of shopping malls in any country would undoubtedly meet WP:LISTN. Redundancy between navboxes/categories and lists isn't a bad thing and even encouraged by WP:NOTDUPE. SD0001 ( talk) 16:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- How do you figure that? For a list to pass WP:LISTN there needs to be a considerable number of notable entries or a list that is notable as a set. We're not seeing that in this article. Ajf773 ( talk) 21:25, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- No, WP:LISTN says nothing about a "considerable number" or anything like it. What it expects is that it "has been discussed as a group or set". We have this in this case in sources such as New shopping malls: A sign of Angola's rising middle class. Q.E.D.. Andrew🐉( talk) 17:20, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
- There are no mentions of any particular shopping malls in that article, there is a photograph of the Africa Mall, that's all. Ajf773 ( talk) 20:47, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
- And the Africa Mall is a particular mall. The article mainly talks about the malls as a group or set but that's fine because that's exactly what LISTN expects. Andrew🐉( talk) 21:49, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
- A particular insignificant mall. Ajf773 ( talk) 01:56, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.