- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was There is consensus here that the list article is a reasonable one to keep; as has been correctly pointed out below, individual items on a list need not independently meet WP:N. The notability of the list as a whole was not addressed in the depth I'd like, but I think there's sufficient demonstration of analogous lists to keep it for the moment. The notability of individual prisons has not been demonstrated here.. There is consensus here that the list article is a reasonable one to keep; as has been correctly pointed out below, individual items on a list need not independently meet WP:N. The notability of the list as a whole was not addressed in the depth I'd like, but I think there's sufficient demonstration of analogous lists to keep it for the moment. The notability of individual prisons has not been demonstrated here. Vanamonde ( Talk) 22:58, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- List of prisons in Rajasthan ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
An article with no encyclopedic value and the only sources are used come from the State Government of Rajasthan's website. All this article is nothing but text and has no links or transclusions anywhere. It's very doubtful that these prisons listed will have their own pages created. This is part of an ongoing issue with HariSinghw who is creating articles and templates simply because he can. He argues that there is a legitimate reason to keep them, but never provides any other than that these places or exists or because it does it should be given a page. He has also argued that on another article he has created that's currently subject to an Afd. The template he created for this page is a subject of a Tfd as well. -- WikiCleanerMan ( talk) 23:50, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
I am also nominating the following related pages because the user who created List of prisons in Rajasthan has created similar articles with related subjects. These articles also don't fit general notability guidelines:
- District Jail, Bhiwani ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- District Jail, Rohtak ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Central Prison, Ambala ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
-- WikiCleanerMan ( talk) 23:53, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
Delete: I had seconded the PROD that was initially placed on this page, and looked into it further along with having looked into several articles by this user in the past. This does not pass GNG, and indeed ispart of a larger pattern. Individuals have been trying to inform him how to improve his creating and citing process and understand wiki guidelines and I'd recommend further encouragement. -- Tautomers( T C) 00:16, 1 July 2021 (UTC) Striking -- Tautomers( T C) 00:43, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Comment: Also I have noticed HariSinghw seems to sign things with the name "I love to be honest" via formatting as opposed to his username. -- Tautomers( T C) 00:20, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 00:25, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 00:25, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Keep the list as a valid redirect target for the jails, which should be redirected, which I hope doesn't confuse the closer. I think HariSinghw doesn't quite understand notability, which is why he took the counsel at ANI and created a long article which I stubbed as there was no evidence of encyclopedic value or notability. I didn't AfD Ambala at the time as I wasn't sure how WP:Articles for deletion/District Jail, Jhajjar was going to close. He's editing in good faith, but I am not sure he has the competence required yet to edit the English Wikipedia. Those issues could be solved if the jails were notable, which they do not appear to be as there is no sourcing with which to improve them. I wouldn't be against deletion, but there could be a usable list to point these to. Agree that this is not currently a usable list, but I think that's an issue that can be solved by editing. Star Mississippi 00:29, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Weak Keep Per the remarks that Mississippi made, I am revising my vote from delete to keep as that is a valid case for keeping it. The reason for weak is because I think Draftify may be a good secondary option. If there are is only one or zero valid jail articles then there is no point in keeping a list of only one item. Another option might be to merge the list into a more general list since this may be too specific. Either way, Keep for now and include links to wiki articles that are ultimately kept and properly cited. If it proves later down the line to be invalid or worthy of some change then it can be channeled that way. -- Tautomers( T C) 00:43, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Comment Actually, I think this AfD would need to be remade? It's also a bundle with 3 other jails. While they are on the list they aren't list themselves, even though those jails would also likely fail and AfD as they are basically the same as all the others made by this user. My comments still stand but I think the procedure with this might be slightly gummed up. --
Tautomers(
T
C)
00:51, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Central prison, ambala is about 150 years old jail, India was independent on 1947 and has historical value. Many freedom fighters were kept here. Notable topic for wikipedia. I love to be honest ( talk) 12:53, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- You haven't provided any evidence that they were imprisoned and who exactly? You have to support claims with sources which you haven't done with this article. -- WikiCleanerMan ( talk) 13:57, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Comment Actually, I think this AfD would need to be remade? It's also a bundle with 3 other jails. While they are on the list they aren't list themselves, even though those jails would also likely fail and AfD as they are basically the same as all the others made by this user. My comments still stand but I think the procedure with this might be slightly gummed up. --
Tautomers(
T
C)
00:51, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Clean up to wikipedia quality standards. Redirect associated prison articles to the list. Polyamorph ( talk) 13:21, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Weak keep this list article, and delete this individual jails articles (all created bypassing AfC).
Central Prison, Ambala may be old, both no information has been provided at that article about its history.
David notMD (
talk)
16:19, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Comment: At one time there existed
Wikipedia:WikiProject Correction and Detention Facilities but it is defunct, with no articles created during its existence. However, for the US and UK, there appears to be existence of lists of prisons, and prisons having individual articles. See for California:
List of California state prisons; and for all of UK:
List of prisons in the United Kingdom. Regardless of these examples, individual prison articles need to meet minimum standards.
David notMD (
talk)
16:32, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Thank You Sir an individual prison article is also eligible for the retention of page because these jails are made to keep criminals, under trial prisoners away from the civilized society. It is not a promotion for the purpose showing that this is jail and you may reside here and these articles will have preventive and deterring effect that a state has many jails and these are overcrowded and there is need to do a lot by the police state to control the crime in the society. It is mirror for the policy makers to prevent these crimes in the society. I love to be honest ( talk) 10:19, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
- Unfortunately none of that has any relation to Wikipedia's notability guidelines. Please read those and make your arguments based on that. Star Mississippi 03:02, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
- Comment: At one time there existed
Wikipedia:WikiProject Correction and Detention Facilities but it is defunct, with no articles created during its existence. However, for the US and UK, there appears to be existence of lists of prisons, and prisons having individual articles. See for California:
List of California state prisons; and for all of UK:
List of prisons in the United Kingdom. Regardless of these examples, individual prison articles need to meet minimum standards.
David notMD (
talk)
16:32, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Keep - subject to improvement. There is no general requirement that every item on a list has itself to be notable or have its own article - see
WP:LISTS. Lists of prisons are an established thing - see
Category:Lists of prisons - and the sourcing will necessarily be based on government information. The individual prison articles should not been bundled with the nomination of the list. As per Users:Star Mississippi and Polyamorph, the list is a valid redirect target for individual prisons which don't support an article. I'm inclined to say that
Central Prison, Ambala, has just enough sourcing to be kept as a stub, after Star Mississippi's overhaul (and I think that HariSinghw is correct that because of its age there will be more to be added) and that the others could redirect
to the listsomewhere, perhaps to their locations (but not to this list, since they're in a different state - which is one more reason why this is a dim nomination bundle). Ingratis ( talk) 13:19, 5 July 2021 (UTC)- Comment - I've added a couple more refs to Central Prison, Ambala (incl the hanging there of Gandhi's assassin). Ingratis ( talk) 13:42, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was There is consensus here that the list article is a reasonable one to keep; as has been correctly pointed out below, individual items on a list need not independently meet WP:N. The notability of the list as a whole was not addressed in the depth I'd like, but I think there's sufficient demonstration of analogous lists to keep it for the moment. The notability of individual prisons has not been demonstrated here.. There is consensus here that the list article is a reasonable one to keep; as has been correctly pointed out below, individual items on a list need not independently meet WP:N. The notability of the list as a whole was not addressed in the depth I'd like, but I think there's sufficient demonstration of analogous lists to keep it for the moment. The notability of individual prisons has not been demonstrated here. Vanamonde ( Talk) 22:58, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- List of prisons in Rajasthan ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
An article with no encyclopedic value and the only sources are used come from the State Government of Rajasthan's website. All this article is nothing but text and has no links or transclusions anywhere. It's very doubtful that these prisons listed will have their own pages created. This is part of an ongoing issue with HariSinghw who is creating articles and templates simply because he can. He argues that there is a legitimate reason to keep them, but never provides any other than that these places or exists or because it does it should be given a page. He has also argued that on another article he has created that's currently subject to an Afd. The template he created for this page is a subject of a Tfd as well. -- WikiCleanerMan ( talk) 23:50, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
I am also nominating the following related pages because the user who created List of prisons in Rajasthan has created similar articles with related subjects. These articles also don't fit general notability guidelines:
- District Jail, Bhiwani ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- District Jail, Rohtak ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Central Prison, Ambala ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
-- WikiCleanerMan ( talk) 23:53, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
Delete: I had seconded the PROD that was initially placed on this page, and looked into it further along with having looked into several articles by this user in the past. This does not pass GNG, and indeed ispart of a larger pattern. Individuals have been trying to inform him how to improve his creating and citing process and understand wiki guidelines and I'd recommend further encouragement. -- Tautomers( T C) 00:16, 1 July 2021 (UTC) Striking -- Tautomers( T C) 00:43, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Comment: Also I have noticed HariSinghw seems to sign things with the name "I love to be honest" via formatting as opposed to his username. -- Tautomers( T C) 00:20, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 00:25, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 00:25, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Keep the list as a valid redirect target for the jails, which should be redirected, which I hope doesn't confuse the closer. I think HariSinghw doesn't quite understand notability, which is why he took the counsel at ANI and created a long article which I stubbed as there was no evidence of encyclopedic value or notability. I didn't AfD Ambala at the time as I wasn't sure how WP:Articles for deletion/District Jail, Jhajjar was going to close. He's editing in good faith, but I am not sure he has the competence required yet to edit the English Wikipedia. Those issues could be solved if the jails were notable, which they do not appear to be as there is no sourcing with which to improve them. I wouldn't be against deletion, but there could be a usable list to point these to. Agree that this is not currently a usable list, but I think that's an issue that can be solved by editing. Star Mississippi 00:29, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Weak Keep Per the remarks that Mississippi made, I am revising my vote from delete to keep as that is a valid case for keeping it. The reason for weak is because I think Draftify may be a good secondary option. If there are is only one or zero valid jail articles then there is no point in keeping a list of only one item. Another option might be to merge the list into a more general list since this may be too specific. Either way, Keep for now and include links to wiki articles that are ultimately kept and properly cited. If it proves later down the line to be invalid or worthy of some change then it can be channeled that way. -- Tautomers( T C) 00:43, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Comment Actually, I think this AfD would need to be remade? It's also a bundle with 3 other jails. While they are on the list they aren't list themselves, even though those jails would also likely fail and AfD as they are basically the same as all the others made by this user. My comments still stand but I think the procedure with this might be slightly gummed up. --
Tautomers(
T
C)
00:51, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Central prison, ambala is about 150 years old jail, India was independent on 1947 and has historical value. Many freedom fighters were kept here. Notable topic for wikipedia. I love to be honest ( talk) 12:53, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- You haven't provided any evidence that they were imprisoned and who exactly? You have to support claims with sources which you haven't done with this article. -- WikiCleanerMan ( talk) 13:57, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Comment Actually, I think this AfD would need to be remade? It's also a bundle with 3 other jails. While they are on the list they aren't list themselves, even though those jails would also likely fail and AfD as they are basically the same as all the others made by this user. My comments still stand but I think the procedure with this might be slightly gummed up. --
Tautomers(
T
C)
00:51, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Clean up to wikipedia quality standards. Redirect associated prison articles to the list. Polyamorph ( talk) 13:21, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Weak keep this list article, and delete this individual jails articles (all created bypassing AfC).
Central Prison, Ambala may be old, both no information has been provided at that article about its history.
David notMD (
talk)
16:19, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Comment: At one time there existed
Wikipedia:WikiProject Correction and Detention Facilities but it is defunct, with no articles created during its existence. However, for the US and UK, there appears to be existence of lists of prisons, and prisons having individual articles. See for California:
List of California state prisons; and for all of UK:
List of prisons in the United Kingdom. Regardless of these examples, individual prison articles need to meet minimum standards.
David notMD (
talk)
16:32, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Thank You Sir an individual prison article is also eligible for the retention of page because these jails are made to keep criminals, under trial prisoners away from the civilized society. It is not a promotion for the purpose showing that this is jail and you may reside here and these articles will have preventive and deterring effect that a state has many jails and these are overcrowded and there is need to do a lot by the police state to control the crime in the society. It is mirror for the policy makers to prevent these crimes in the society. I love to be honest ( talk) 10:19, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
- Unfortunately none of that has any relation to Wikipedia's notability guidelines. Please read those and make your arguments based on that. Star Mississippi 03:02, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
- Comment: At one time there existed
Wikipedia:WikiProject Correction and Detention Facilities but it is defunct, with no articles created during its existence. However, for the US and UK, there appears to be existence of lists of prisons, and prisons having individual articles. See for California:
List of California state prisons; and for all of UK:
List of prisons in the United Kingdom. Regardless of these examples, individual prison articles need to meet minimum standards.
David notMD (
talk)
16:32, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Keep - subject to improvement. There is no general requirement that every item on a list has itself to be notable or have its own article - see
WP:LISTS. Lists of prisons are an established thing - see
Category:Lists of prisons - and the sourcing will necessarily be based on government information. The individual prison articles should not been bundled with the nomination of the list. As per Users:Star Mississippi and Polyamorph, the list is a valid redirect target for individual prisons which don't support an article. I'm inclined to say that
Central Prison, Ambala, has just enough sourcing to be kept as a stub, after Star Mississippi's overhaul (and I think that HariSinghw is correct that because of its age there will be more to be added) and that the others could redirect
to the listsomewhere, perhaps to their locations (but not to this list, since they're in a different state - which is one more reason why this is a dim nomination bundle). Ingratis ( talk) 13:19, 5 July 2021 (UTC)- Comment - I've added a couple more refs to Central Prison, Ambala (incl the hanging there of Gandhi's assassin). Ingratis ( talk) 13:42, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.