- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was merge to List of fictional vehicles. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 02:40, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- List of fictional buses ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
I don't see how this unreferenced list meets
WP:NLIST
WP:LISTN/
WP:NFICTION/GNG. Deprodded with a link to
[1] which suggests there is potential for the 'in popular culture' section at the article for
Bus or perhaps an entire article about this, but there is little to salvage from his unreferenced list for either or such ideas.
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
01:47, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 01:47, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 01:47, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- COMMENT Only two link to articles, the rest are redirects. Dream Focus 03:07, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Keep im fed up of anti fiction deletionsts on Wikipedia who want to move all fictional content to the ad laden fandom wikis. 163.170.130.6 ( talk) 09:50, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Comment Relax dude. This list is simply too short (at its current stage) to be a seperate article. ~Styyx Hi! ^-^ 17:41, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- I agree that this page is too short, but I do feel like the Ip editor brings up an important issues that Wikipedia has, there has been a ton of deletions recently of fiction which I believe may have been done far too hastely. ★Trekker ( talk) 17:30, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
- Comment
Piotrus, did you mean
WP:LISTN?
WP:NLIST is about lists of people.
YorkshireLad
✿
(talk)
11:06, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Ooops, of course, fixed. Thanks for the ping. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:01, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Not enough valid links to warrant a list.
Ajf773 (
talk)
11:35, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- To which guideline do you refer? There's no requirement that list items be individually notable (although it may be a criteria for some lists.) pburka ( talk) 11:39, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 12:55, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Keep ("One accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources.") or merge with List of fictional vehicles. pburka ( talk) 13:07, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Light Merge - to List of fictional vehicles - The single source, while not bad, is the only one found so far, and generally topics need to have multiple sources to establish notability. Even WP:LISTN indicates that stand alone lists need to be discussed as a group by independent reliable sources. There really is not enough there for this to pass WP:LISTN as a list or the WP:GNG as an article on its own, but could easily be used to support the broader topic of fictional vehicles, and the examples in this list that are actually mentioned in that one cited paper can be merged to that article. I do want to point out that there is a difference between a fictional bus and a real-world bus that just happens to appear in fiction, since it wouldn't be particularly helpful if that list becomes glutted with every time a bus happened to show up in a movie or TV show. Rorshacma ( talk) 16:04, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Merge with List of fictional vehicles. Shorter lists are inside this article. If anyone can find more fictional busses and them, then Keep. ~Styyx Hi! ^-^ 16:36, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Light merge per Rorshacma—who also makes the excellent point that fictional buses ≠ buses in fiction. Presumably Otto Mann's bus or the buses in On the Buses shouldn't be included, for instance. (Suggest that if the article is to be kept, it needs a criterion for inclusion: perhaps that the buses are notable, or that they're given a name.) YorkshireLad ✿ (talk) 21:19, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Comment in addition to the
book I mentioned when I deprodded the page, I've found a journal paper in
College Literature which explicitly connects Steinbeck's "Sweetheart" to Speed's "25/25", and discusses the motif of buses in American fiction (although most of the actual buses are generic unnamed vehicles).
pburka (
talk)
21:27, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
-
Pburka, The sources you've found seem great for a "buses in popular culture" article (or perhaps more specifically "buses in American fiction"), but this feels like a case for
WP:TNT to be applied—to me, that seems like a fundamentally different (and indeed better) article than the one we've got here.
YorkshireLad
✿
(talk)
21:48, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Could we have a better article about buses in fiction? Hell yes. There's clearly a lot of material on this topic that we could draw on to write an in depth article about the topic. Does that mean we should demolish this perfectly serviceable list article? I don't think so. This is like the town that demolishes its shabby Victorian train station to make room for a proposed skyscraper with no financing in place, leaving an overgrown empty lot in the town center for decades. We can have a list and a deeper prose article; but nobody's lining up to write that page, and we've got this one that just needs a bit of cleanup.
pburka (
talk)
22:03, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
-
Pburka, I grew up in that town! I suppose my point is that at the point all that material was added, this would no longer be a "list of fictional buses" article, so it makes more sense to start that afresh. TNT wasn't quite appropriate here for what I'm suggesting, I guess—in particular, I'm not advocating deleting anything wholesale, just moving (most of) the examples somewhere else.
YorkshireLad
✿
(talk)
22:24, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Perhaps we were neighbours growing up! I don't object to moving the content (in fact I initially proposed that). I do think the List of fictional vehicles page is a bit of a mess, and might serve us best as a simple list of lists. pburka ( talk) 22:33, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- (Note that List of fictional cars also claims that its scope includes buses, but there seems to be only one ( The Big Bus's "Cyclops") currently present.) pburka ( talk) 23:07, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
-
Pburka, I grew up in that town! I suppose my point is that at the point all that material was added, this would no longer be a "list of fictional buses" article, so it makes more sense to start that afresh. TNT wasn't quite appropriate here for what I'm suggesting, I guess—in particular, I'm not advocating deleting anything wholesale, just moving (most of) the examples somewhere else.
YorkshireLad
✿
(talk)
22:24, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Could we have a better article about buses in fiction? Hell yes. There's clearly a lot of material on this topic that we could draw on to write an in depth article about the topic. Does that mean we should demolish this perfectly serviceable list article? I don't think so. This is like the town that demolishes its shabby Victorian train station to make room for a proposed skyscraper with no financing in place, leaving an overgrown empty lot in the town center for decades. We can have a list and a deeper prose article; but nobody's lining up to write that page, and we've got this one that just needs a bit of cleanup.
pburka (
talk)
22:03, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
-
Pburka, The sources you've found seem great for a "buses in popular culture" article (or perhaps more specifically "buses in American fiction"), but this feels like a case for
WP:TNT to be applied—to me, that seems like a fundamentally different (and indeed better) article than the one we've got here.
YorkshireLad
✿
(talk)
21:48, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Merge to List of fictional vehicles. // Timothy :: talk 23:20, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
- Keep Yet another drive-by. The nomination admits at the outset that there are sensible alternatives to deletion and we have more suggestions above. The page already has some reasonable sources and there are more to find such as Omnibuses in fın-de-siècle Short Stories and Journalism; The 7 Best Movies About Public Transport; The Bus as Metaphor in Contemporary Nigerian Fiction; &c. The topic therefore passes WP:LISTN and policies such as WP:ATD and WP:PRESERVE apply. Andrew🐉( talk) 10:57, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
- Merge - to List of fictional vehicles, which can handle it & make it more comprehensive. Djflem ( talk) 14:29, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
- Merge - to List of fictional vehicles, I just don't see there being enough notable examples to have a separate list. ★Trekker ( talk) 17:30, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
- Merge to list of fictional vehicles for now. These kinds of lists are a hit or miss at AFD, and we are due to find a more consistent solution. Many of them accumulate a lot of messy and inaccurate trivia, and are often worse than just viewing the category. But until we find a way to turn categories into dynamics lists somehow, I think we're going to keep having case-by-case discussions like this. And we'll have to find a consensus one-by-one. Shooterwalker ( talk) 20:15, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was merge to List of fictional vehicles. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 02:40, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- List of fictional buses ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
I don't see how this unreferenced list meets
WP:NLIST
WP:LISTN/
WP:NFICTION/GNG. Deprodded with a link to
[1] which suggests there is potential for the 'in popular culture' section at the article for
Bus or perhaps an entire article about this, but there is little to salvage from his unreferenced list for either or such ideas.
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
01:47, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 01:47, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 01:47, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- COMMENT Only two link to articles, the rest are redirects. Dream Focus 03:07, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Keep im fed up of anti fiction deletionsts on Wikipedia who want to move all fictional content to the ad laden fandom wikis. 163.170.130.6 ( talk) 09:50, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Comment Relax dude. This list is simply too short (at its current stage) to be a seperate article. ~Styyx Hi! ^-^ 17:41, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- I agree that this page is too short, but I do feel like the Ip editor brings up an important issues that Wikipedia has, there has been a ton of deletions recently of fiction which I believe may have been done far too hastely. ★Trekker ( talk) 17:30, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
- Comment
Piotrus, did you mean
WP:LISTN?
WP:NLIST is about lists of people.
YorkshireLad
✿
(talk)
11:06, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Ooops, of course, fixed. Thanks for the ping. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:01, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Not enough valid links to warrant a list.
Ajf773 (
talk)
11:35, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- To which guideline do you refer? There's no requirement that list items be individually notable (although it may be a criteria for some lists.) pburka ( talk) 11:39, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 12:55, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Keep ("One accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources.") or merge with List of fictional vehicles. pburka ( talk) 13:07, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Light Merge - to List of fictional vehicles - The single source, while not bad, is the only one found so far, and generally topics need to have multiple sources to establish notability. Even WP:LISTN indicates that stand alone lists need to be discussed as a group by independent reliable sources. There really is not enough there for this to pass WP:LISTN as a list or the WP:GNG as an article on its own, but could easily be used to support the broader topic of fictional vehicles, and the examples in this list that are actually mentioned in that one cited paper can be merged to that article. I do want to point out that there is a difference between a fictional bus and a real-world bus that just happens to appear in fiction, since it wouldn't be particularly helpful if that list becomes glutted with every time a bus happened to show up in a movie or TV show. Rorshacma ( talk) 16:04, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Merge with List of fictional vehicles. Shorter lists are inside this article. If anyone can find more fictional busses and them, then Keep. ~Styyx Hi! ^-^ 16:36, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Light merge per Rorshacma—who also makes the excellent point that fictional buses ≠ buses in fiction. Presumably Otto Mann's bus or the buses in On the Buses shouldn't be included, for instance. (Suggest that if the article is to be kept, it needs a criterion for inclusion: perhaps that the buses are notable, or that they're given a name.) YorkshireLad ✿ (talk) 21:19, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Comment in addition to the
book I mentioned when I deprodded the page, I've found a journal paper in
College Literature which explicitly connects Steinbeck's "Sweetheart" to Speed's "25/25", and discusses the motif of buses in American fiction (although most of the actual buses are generic unnamed vehicles).
pburka (
talk)
21:27, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
-
Pburka, The sources you've found seem great for a "buses in popular culture" article (or perhaps more specifically "buses in American fiction"), but this feels like a case for
WP:TNT to be applied—to me, that seems like a fundamentally different (and indeed better) article than the one we've got here.
YorkshireLad
✿
(talk)
21:48, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Could we have a better article about buses in fiction? Hell yes. There's clearly a lot of material on this topic that we could draw on to write an in depth article about the topic. Does that mean we should demolish this perfectly serviceable list article? I don't think so. This is like the town that demolishes its shabby Victorian train station to make room for a proposed skyscraper with no financing in place, leaving an overgrown empty lot in the town center for decades. We can have a list and a deeper prose article; but nobody's lining up to write that page, and we've got this one that just needs a bit of cleanup.
pburka (
talk)
22:03, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
-
Pburka, I grew up in that town! I suppose my point is that at the point all that material was added, this would no longer be a "list of fictional buses" article, so it makes more sense to start that afresh. TNT wasn't quite appropriate here for what I'm suggesting, I guess—in particular, I'm not advocating deleting anything wholesale, just moving (most of) the examples somewhere else.
YorkshireLad
✿
(talk)
22:24, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Perhaps we were neighbours growing up! I don't object to moving the content (in fact I initially proposed that). I do think the List of fictional vehicles page is a bit of a mess, and might serve us best as a simple list of lists. pburka ( talk) 22:33, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- (Note that List of fictional cars also claims that its scope includes buses, but there seems to be only one ( The Big Bus's "Cyclops") currently present.) pburka ( talk) 23:07, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
-
Pburka, I grew up in that town! I suppose my point is that at the point all that material was added, this would no longer be a "list of fictional buses" article, so it makes more sense to start that afresh. TNT wasn't quite appropriate here for what I'm suggesting, I guess—in particular, I'm not advocating deleting anything wholesale, just moving (most of) the examples somewhere else.
YorkshireLad
✿
(talk)
22:24, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Could we have a better article about buses in fiction? Hell yes. There's clearly a lot of material on this topic that we could draw on to write an in depth article about the topic. Does that mean we should demolish this perfectly serviceable list article? I don't think so. This is like the town that demolishes its shabby Victorian train station to make room for a proposed skyscraper with no financing in place, leaving an overgrown empty lot in the town center for decades. We can have a list and a deeper prose article; but nobody's lining up to write that page, and we've got this one that just needs a bit of cleanup.
pburka (
talk)
22:03, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
-
Pburka, The sources you've found seem great for a "buses in popular culture" article (or perhaps more specifically "buses in American fiction"), but this feels like a case for
WP:TNT to be applied—to me, that seems like a fundamentally different (and indeed better) article than the one we've got here.
YorkshireLad
✿
(talk)
21:48, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Merge to List of fictional vehicles. // Timothy :: talk 23:20, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
- Keep Yet another drive-by. The nomination admits at the outset that there are sensible alternatives to deletion and we have more suggestions above. The page already has some reasonable sources and there are more to find such as Omnibuses in fın-de-siècle Short Stories and Journalism; The 7 Best Movies About Public Transport; The Bus as Metaphor in Contemporary Nigerian Fiction; &c. The topic therefore passes WP:LISTN and policies such as WP:ATD and WP:PRESERVE apply. Andrew🐉( talk) 10:57, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
- Merge - to List of fictional vehicles, which can handle it & make it more comprehensive. Djflem ( talk) 14:29, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
- Merge - to List of fictional vehicles, I just don't see there being enough notable examples to have a separate list. ★Trekker ( talk) 17:30, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
- Merge to list of fictional vehicles for now. These kinds of lists are a hit or miss at AFD, and we are due to find a more consistent solution. Many of them accumulate a lot of messy and inaccurate trivia, and are often worse than just viewing the category. But until we find a way to turn categories into dynamics lists somehow, I think we're going to keep having case-by-case discussions like this. And we'll have to find a consensus one-by-one. Shooterwalker ( talk) 20:15, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.