- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. This is primarily because I think those advocating Keep are putting up such weak arguments that say, basically, being a bad article is not a reason for deletion which is not a great argument to Keep it. That said, if anyone wanted to create a Redirect from this page title or work on this article in Draft space, I would restore it or you can go to WP:REFUND. I just don't see a strong enough consensus to Redirect or Draftify that I can close this discussion in favor of either of those two options. Liz Read! Talk! 23:01, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- List of Transformers UK comics ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Unsourced, messy list, that doesn't even include all the issues, despite numbering them. Industrial Insect (talk) 12:20, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements, Science fiction and fantasy, and Comics and animation. Industrial Insect (talk) 12:20, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- Keep a page being a shit-tip is not cause for deletion. BoomboxTestarossa ( talk) 13:42, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- Delete: NO sourcing here, only thing I can find is a Fandom wiki. We aren't Fandom.
Oaktree b (
talk)
14:20, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- I feel like that's a big reason why pages like these exist. Since some fandom websites are called "wikis" it causes people to make the assumption we work the same way that fandom does. But we have actual rules and regulations. Industrial Insect (talk) 14:24, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:20, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:21, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- Draftify Article I normally don't vouch for this, but given that the Transformers Comics seem notable, a derivative list of individual comics seems warranted. This page is really bad, though, and should probably see significant work before being pushed to the mainspace again.
Pokelego999 (
talk)
20:42, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- The only solid source I've found so far is
this one. I would like to note that this serves as the ONLY article related to transformers UK. The only article about this comic series is a listing of all of its issues.
Let that sink in.
Industrial Insect
(talk)
21:26, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- The problem with mashing stuff into Google is the comic is called "Transformers", and there's no universal way to denote the British series, which gets called "Transformers UK", "the British Transformers", "Marvel UK's Transformers", and even just Transformers. For example, the Royal Mail stamps were inspired by the 'British contribution' to Transformers, which is the Marvel UK comics.
- https://www.comicsbeat.com/uk-royal-mail-transformers-stamps/
- On top of that, Simon Furman discusses his work on the series at some length in an interview with Judge Dredd Megazine, and the UK series is covered in whichever Back Issue! covered the Transformers comics (my BIs are in storage because I'm up to my neck in other comics ATM). Also coverage on DownTheTubes ( https://downthetubes.net/draft-robots-in-disguise-a-tribute-to-marvel-uks-transformers/). Wizard also probably covered it around the 2000s nostalgia boom as well.
- Muddying things is that some Transformers UK material is referred to by the story name, what with international reprints making it no longer British-exclusive, such as Target 2006 ( https://www.thepopverse.com/transformers-hasbro-recommendations-comics-stories-books-comic-graphic-novels shows up on GNews, and https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Marvel_Comics_into_Film/V6_uCwAAQBAJ? on GBooks) and there's a bit on Furman's wider impact on the franchise via the British comic at https://www.cbr.com/simon-furman-changed-transformers/
- Given that sources are out there and the big problems with the article nominated are mainly due to crap formatting, I'd say it is more beneficial to the improvement of the wider project that someone tries to actually salvage the thing instead of just yelling "Delete" and sniping at other wikis.
BoomboxTestarossa (
talk)
19:27, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
- Nobody's sniping at fandom and calling it bad. I was just saying that fandom and Wikipedia are entirely unrelated in how they work, and that it's annoying when people create poorly sourced articles because they think that we work like fandom. In fact, you referring to fandom as an "other wiki" perfectly proves my point.
Industrial Insect
(talk)
03:39, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
- Why are you assuming the article was created by someone who thinks "we" work like fandom? That's a bad faith reading. The majority of the work on the article appears to have been done circa 2008, before Fandom was even in use as a brand, and when Wikipedia's standards of sources and notability were markedly different; it's also not the person who created the article's fault that it hasn't been brought into line with the differing standards implemented since.
- Again, the article's root subject seems notable. AFD is not clean-up. If its current format is so abhorrent to you it's not a protected page or anything... BoomboxTestarossa ( talk) 09:16, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- Nobody's sniping at fandom and calling it bad. I was just saying that fandom and Wikipedia are entirely unrelated in how they work, and that it's annoying when people create poorly sourced articles because they think that we work like fandom. In fact, you referring to fandom as an "other wiki" perfectly proves my point.
Industrial Insect
(talk)
03:39, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
- The only solid source I've found so far is
this one. I would like to note that this serves as the ONLY article related to transformers UK. The only article about this comic series is a listing of all of its issues.
Let that sink in.
Industrial Insect
(talk)
21:26, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- Keep "Its bad" is not and will never be a good reason for deletion. Draftifying helps nothing 99% of the time. ★Trekker ( talk) 16:25, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
- I think I could only get behind Draftify if a) the page was dangerously misleading and b) there was someone in this AfD right now saying they'd be on it in the next few days. Otherwise for an article that has problems with being too difuse, no 'parent' page and seemingly no editors with the time and inclination to rectify its problems any time soon it would effectively be a soft deletion. The sources are there for notability, without even much digging, and while awfully formatted it's no less valid than the spin-off pages of any other notable comic. As a British comic it is broadly on my radar, especially considering its sales and it being one of a surprising few to continue to generate lasting overseas interest (the entire run has been reprinted by a major American publisher, which might be unique for a British comic). But I'm maybe 15% through the work I hope to do on AP/Fleetway/IPC so even if Marvel UK is next on the list after them it will be months, and that's assuming I don't flake. TBH if I was King of Wikipedia and/or won the lottery and could devote the time to it I'd tear most of the comics pages on Wikipedia down and build them up from scratch, but that's a different discussion, and one to be had by people who are actually going to do the work.
- TLDR the page's issues are outside the remit of AfD. BoomboxTestarossa ( talk) 17:03, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris talk! 20:00, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per WP:GNG, zero references, no indication of notability. -- Mika1h ( talk) 17:23, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:11, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
- Delete or maybe redirect to The Transformers (Marvel Comics). Can verify that it's a selective reprint, but no sources to indicate any separate notability. Shooterwalker ( talk) 03:48, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
- Keep, this is a useful list to have and UK transformers is well known and popular comic as well. Davidgoodheart ( talk) 20:04, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
- Delete: Fails NLIST and article is unsourced fancruft. No objection to a consensus redirect to The Transformers (Marvel Comics). Agree this article is useless, if sourcing develops that meets NLIST, WP:TNT will be needed to create an article for Wikipedia instead of fandom. // Timothy :: talk 21:15, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect to The Transformers (Marvel Comics) as an WP:ATD. No sources to indicate any notability that meet our guidelines for reliability. Daniel ( talk) 11:28, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Nagol0929 ( talk) 11:57, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
- Delete. No references? WP:V is not optional, folks. Cataloguecrafty wP:OR. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 14:37, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. Per nomination. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.239.156.253 ( talk) 20:35, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
- Comment - AFD is not a vote. Also, the nomination is certainly not advocating for keeping, so this vote does not make a whole lot of sense in general. Rorshacma ( talk) 01:24, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
- Delete - It is pretty dubious if this even meets any kind of notability guidelines, and even if it did, being completely unsourced means that it certainly fails WP:V and potentially runs afoul of WP:OR. I suppose I would not have any strong objections if it was used as a redirect to The Transformers (Marvel Comics), but I don't think this is a particularly plausible search term. Rorshacma ( talk) 01:24, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
- Delete – It doesn't appear that this meets WP:NLIST, and even the UK-specific series as a whole is borderline. I don't see redirection of this title being helpful. Tollens ( talk) 06:50, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect to The Transformers (Marvel Comics) or Draftify as WP:ATD there's no need to delete this and the history will be valuable when we finally get around to improving Transformers articles in the encyclopedia. This seems likely to be notable based on print sources, given the era. Also a note that published material is implicitly verifiable to itself so this isn't completely unsourced. — siro χ o 08:49, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. This is primarily because I think those advocating Keep are putting up such weak arguments that say, basically, being a bad article is not a reason for deletion which is not a great argument to Keep it. That said, if anyone wanted to create a Redirect from this page title or work on this article in Draft space, I would restore it or you can go to WP:REFUND. I just don't see a strong enough consensus to Redirect or Draftify that I can close this discussion in favor of either of those two options. Liz Read! Talk! 23:01, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- List of Transformers UK comics ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Unsourced, messy list, that doesn't even include all the issues, despite numbering them. Industrial Insect (talk) 12:20, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements, Science fiction and fantasy, and Comics and animation. Industrial Insect (talk) 12:20, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- Keep a page being a shit-tip is not cause for deletion. BoomboxTestarossa ( talk) 13:42, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- Delete: NO sourcing here, only thing I can find is a Fandom wiki. We aren't Fandom.
Oaktree b (
talk)
14:20, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- I feel like that's a big reason why pages like these exist. Since some fandom websites are called "wikis" it causes people to make the assumption we work the same way that fandom does. But we have actual rules and regulations. Industrial Insect (talk) 14:24, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:20, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:21, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- Draftify Article I normally don't vouch for this, but given that the Transformers Comics seem notable, a derivative list of individual comics seems warranted. This page is really bad, though, and should probably see significant work before being pushed to the mainspace again.
Pokelego999 (
talk)
20:42, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- The only solid source I've found so far is
this one. I would like to note that this serves as the ONLY article related to transformers UK. The only article about this comic series is a listing of all of its issues.
Let that sink in.
Industrial Insect
(talk)
21:26, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- The problem with mashing stuff into Google is the comic is called "Transformers", and there's no universal way to denote the British series, which gets called "Transformers UK", "the British Transformers", "Marvel UK's Transformers", and even just Transformers. For example, the Royal Mail stamps were inspired by the 'British contribution' to Transformers, which is the Marvel UK comics.
- https://www.comicsbeat.com/uk-royal-mail-transformers-stamps/
- On top of that, Simon Furman discusses his work on the series at some length in an interview with Judge Dredd Megazine, and the UK series is covered in whichever Back Issue! covered the Transformers comics (my BIs are in storage because I'm up to my neck in other comics ATM). Also coverage on DownTheTubes ( https://downthetubes.net/draft-robots-in-disguise-a-tribute-to-marvel-uks-transformers/). Wizard also probably covered it around the 2000s nostalgia boom as well.
- Muddying things is that some Transformers UK material is referred to by the story name, what with international reprints making it no longer British-exclusive, such as Target 2006 ( https://www.thepopverse.com/transformers-hasbro-recommendations-comics-stories-books-comic-graphic-novels shows up on GNews, and https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Marvel_Comics_into_Film/V6_uCwAAQBAJ? on GBooks) and there's a bit on Furman's wider impact on the franchise via the British comic at https://www.cbr.com/simon-furman-changed-transformers/
- Given that sources are out there and the big problems with the article nominated are mainly due to crap formatting, I'd say it is more beneficial to the improvement of the wider project that someone tries to actually salvage the thing instead of just yelling "Delete" and sniping at other wikis.
BoomboxTestarossa (
talk)
19:27, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
- Nobody's sniping at fandom and calling it bad. I was just saying that fandom and Wikipedia are entirely unrelated in how they work, and that it's annoying when people create poorly sourced articles because they think that we work like fandom. In fact, you referring to fandom as an "other wiki" perfectly proves my point.
Industrial Insect
(talk)
03:39, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
- Why are you assuming the article was created by someone who thinks "we" work like fandom? That's a bad faith reading. The majority of the work on the article appears to have been done circa 2008, before Fandom was even in use as a brand, and when Wikipedia's standards of sources and notability were markedly different; it's also not the person who created the article's fault that it hasn't been brought into line with the differing standards implemented since.
- Again, the article's root subject seems notable. AFD is not clean-up. If its current format is so abhorrent to you it's not a protected page or anything... BoomboxTestarossa ( talk) 09:16, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- Nobody's sniping at fandom and calling it bad. I was just saying that fandom and Wikipedia are entirely unrelated in how they work, and that it's annoying when people create poorly sourced articles because they think that we work like fandom. In fact, you referring to fandom as an "other wiki" perfectly proves my point.
Industrial Insect
(talk)
03:39, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
- The only solid source I've found so far is
this one. I would like to note that this serves as the ONLY article related to transformers UK. The only article about this comic series is a listing of all of its issues.
Let that sink in.
Industrial Insect
(talk)
21:26, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- Keep "Its bad" is not and will never be a good reason for deletion. Draftifying helps nothing 99% of the time. ★Trekker ( talk) 16:25, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
- I think I could only get behind Draftify if a) the page was dangerously misleading and b) there was someone in this AfD right now saying they'd be on it in the next few days. Otherwise for an article that has problems with being too difuse, no 'parent' page and seemingly no editors with the time and inclination to rectify its problems any time soon it would effectively be a soft deletion. The sources are there for notability, without even much digging, and while awfully formatted it's no less valid than the spin-off pages of any other notable comic. As a British comic it is broadly on my radar, especially considering its sales and it being one of a surprising few to continue to generate lasting overseas interest (the entire run has been reprinted by a major American publisher, which might be unique for a British comic). But I'm maybe 15% through the work I hope to do on AP/Fleetway/IPC so even if Marvel UK is next on the list after them it will be months, and that's assuming I don't flake. TBH if I was King of Wikipedia and/or won the lottery and could devote the time to it I'd tear most of the comics pages on Wikipedia down and build them up from scratch, but that's a different discussion, and one to be had by people who are actually going to do the work.
- TLDR the page's issues are outside the remit of AfD. BoomboxTestarossa ( talk) 17:03, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris talk! 20:00, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per WP:GNG, zero references, no indication of notability. -- Mika1h ( talk) 17:23, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:11, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
- Delete or maybe redirect to The Transformers (Marvel Comics). Can verify that it's a selective reprint, but no sources to indicate any separate notability. Shooterwalker ( talk) 03:48, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
- Keep, this is a useful list to have and UK transformers is well known and popular comic as well. Davidgoodheart ( talk) 20:04, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
- Delete: Fails NLIST and article is unsourced fancruft. No objection to a consensus redirect to The Transformers (Marvel Comics). Agree this article is useless, if sourcing develops that meets NLIST, WP:TNT will be needed to create an article for Wikipedia instead of fandom. // Timothy :: talk 21:15, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect to The Transformers (Marvel Comics) as an WP:ATD. No sources to indicate any notability that meet our guidelines for reliability. Daniel ( talk) 11:28, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Nagol0929 ( talk) 11:57, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
- Delete. No references? WP:V is not optional, folks. Cataloguecrafty wP:OR. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 14:37, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. Per nomination. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.239.156.253 ( talk) 20:35, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
- Comment - AFD is not a vote. Also, the nomination is certainly not advocating for keeping, so this vote does not make a whole lot of sense in general. Rorshacma ( talk) 01:24, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
- Delete - It is pretty dubious if this even meets any kind of notability guidelines, and even if it did, being completely unsourced means that it certainly fails WP:V and potentially runs afoul of WP:OR. I suppose I would not have any strong objections if it was used as a redirect to The Transformers (Marvel Comics), but I don't think this is a particularly plausible search term. Rorshacma ( talk) 01:24, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
- Delete – It doesn't appear that this meets WP:NLIST, and even the UK-specific series as a whole is borderline. I don't see redirection of this title being helpful. Tollens ( talk) 06:50, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect to The Transformers (Marvel Comics) or Draftify as WP:ATD there's no need to delete this and the history will be valuable when we finally get around to improving Transformers articles in the encyclopedia. This seems likely to be notable based on print sources, given the era. Also a note that published material is implicitly verifiable to itself so this isn't completely unsourced. — siro χ o 08:49, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.