 | This discussion was subject to a
deletion review on 2023 October 27. For an explanation of the process, see Wikipedia:Deletion review. |
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. Opinions are split, and a consensus is unlikely especially given the addition of events of the last week. If folks think a merger might solve to some of the issues, suggest that continues on the respective Talk pag es. Star Mississippi 12:30, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
List of Israeli civilian casualties in the Second Intifada
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- List of Israeli civilian casualties in the Second Intifada ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Clear case of WP:NOTMEMORIAL. Nominating this for AfD alongside Civilian casualties in the Second Intifada and List of Palestinian civilian casualties in the Second Intifada. Any individual events can be added to the respective Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict year-by-year event list. Longhornsg ( talk) 19:53, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people, Terrorism, and Israel. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 21:03, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
- Delete (all three): These pages are indeed all examples of what is discouraged by WP:NOTMEMORIAL and writ large, stringing together events without sufficient notability to have had pages created about them. The appropriate place for notable or significantly covered events is indeed at one of the appropriate year-by-year timelines at Template:Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. Iskandar323 ( talk) 17:45, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Previously at AFD under a different title, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of attacks committed during the Second Intifada so not eligible for Soft Deletion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:16, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per NOTMEMORIAL. AryKun ( talk) 14:43, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
Keep Useful and detailed data on a well studied international conflict. Page needs some cleanup, and WP:NOTAMEMORIAL concerns can be addressed. Mistamystery ( talk) 20:03, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
- The entire list is a NOTAMEMORIAL violation, there isn't a way to address them without deleting the list. The individual people killed aren't in any way notable, and while "Civilian casualties in the Second Intifada" might be a notable topic, such an article is never going to justify having a list of people who died in it. AryKun ( talk) 15:29, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Seraphimblade Talk to me 08:55, 30 September 2023 (UTC)- NB: The parallel counterpart to this list, List of Palestinian civilian casualties in the Second Intifada has now been deleted, while this one hasn't, as one additional editor voted delete there but not here. One way or another, however, it means that this list now stands in isolation as an unbalanced POV list without a balancing counterpart, so the impetus for its deletion as a standalone item has only grown. Iskandar323 ( talk) 09:57, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
- Delete: "Unknown" individuals in the list doesn't really prove notability. Most of these "individuals" don't even have articles, so I'm not seeing the point of the article. Oaktree b ( talk) 15:07, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. NOTEMORIAL doesn't apply here. It says
Subjects of encyclopedia articles must satisfy Wikipedia's notability requirements
. The subject of this article is Israeli civilian casualties which has been covered widely by reliable sources. It doesn't even name any names.
- Keep: WP:IS WP:RS are already coving casualties as a group, NLIST is satisfied. NOTEMORIAL doesn't apply per Alaexis explanation above. // Timothy :: talk 21:54, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:50, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
- Keep: Based on what has been written, I think the subject of the article meets Wikipedia's criteria for notability.-- Jasulan.T TT me 13:59, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
- Delete: Per Iskandar323 - all three articles should be deleted. In fact, it was an error, IMHO, to make 3 separate discussions. All three should have been handled at one common discussion. UtherSRG (talk) 11:08, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per NOTMEMORIAL. Carrite ( talk) 04:44, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. Like many others have said, NOTMEMORIAL is not applicable here. The topic of this page has had wide and sustained media coverage, which is the basic criteria to keep an article in Wikipedia. WonderCanada ( talk) 08:24, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
- Delete. NOTMEMORIAL is applicable here, and the list is not otherwise notable. Stifle ( talk) 15:43, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
- Delete WP:NOTMEMORIAL Lightburst ( talk) 19:02, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
- Merge in abbreviated form to
Second Intifada. Cruel as it may sound, individual incidents in which a handful of civilians are killed in an ongoing terrorist campaign generally do not have standalone notability. I would cut this to a list of instances with deaths in the double figures, and summarize the collective remainder in a few lines of prose, accounting in prose as needed for any specific incidents that drew unusual attention relative to the deaths caused.
BD2412
T
03:58, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
- @ BD2412: FYI, most of this list is already duplicated here. Iskandar323 ( talk) 08:25, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
| This discussion was subject to a
deletion review on 2023 October 27. For an explanation of the process, see Wikipedia:Deletion review. |
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. Opinions are split, and a consensus is unlikely especially given the addition of events of the last week. If folks think a merger might solve to some of the issues, suggest that continues on the respective Talk pag es. Star Mississippi 12:30, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
List of Israeli civilian casualties in the Second Intifada
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- List of Israeli civilian casualties in the Second Intifada ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Clear case of WP:NOTMEMORIAL. Nominating this for AfD alongside Civilian casualties in the Second Intifada and List of Palestinian civilian casualties in the Second Intifada. Any individual events can be added to the respective Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict year-by-year event list. Longhornsg ( talk) 19:53, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people, Terrorism, and Israel. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 21:03, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
- Delete (all three): These pages are indeed all examples of what is discouraged by WP:NOTMEMORIAL and writ large, stringing together events without sufficient notability to have had pages created about them. The appropriate place for notable or significantly covered events is indeed at one of the appropriate year-by-year timelines at Template:Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. Iskandar323 ( talk) 17:45, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Previously at AFD under a different title, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of attacks committed during the Second Intifada so not eligible for Soft Deletion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:16, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per NOTMEMORIAL. AryKun ( talk) 14:43, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
Keep Useful and detailed data on a well studied international conflict. Page needs some cleanup, and WP:NOTAMEMORIAL concerns can be addressed. Mistamystery ( talk) 20:03, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
- The entire list is a NOTAMEMORIAL violation, there isn't a way to address them without deleting the list. The individual people killed aren't in any way notable, and while "Civilian casualties in the Second Intifada" might be a notable topic, such an article is never going to justify having a list of people who died in it. AryKun ( talk) 15:29, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Seraphimblade Talk to me 08:55, 30 September 2023 (UTC)- NB: The parallel counterpart to this list, List of Palestinian civilian casualties in the Second Intifada has now been deleted, while this one hasn't, as one additional editor voted delete there but not here. One way or another, however, it means that this list now stands in isolation as an unbalanced POV list without a balancing counterpart, so the impetus for its deletion as a standalone item has only grown. Iskandar323 ( talk) 09:57, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
- Delete: "Unknown" individuals in the list doesn't really prove notability. Most of these "individuals" don't even have articles, so I'm not seeing the point of the article. Oaktree b ( talk) 15:07, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. NOTEMORIAL doesn't apply here. It says
Subjects of encyclopedia articles must satisfy Wikipedia's notability requirements
. The subject of this article is Israeli civilian casualties which has been covered widely by reliable sources. It doesn't even name any names.
- Keep: WP:IS WP:RS are already coving casualties as a group, NLIST is satisfied. NOTEMORIAL doesn't apply per Alaexis explanation above. // Timothy :: talk 21:54, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:50, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
- Keep: Based on what has been written, I think the subject of the article meets Wikipedia's criteria for notability.-- Jasulan.T TT me 13:59, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
- Delete: Per Iskandar323 - all three articles should be deleted. In fact, it was an error, IMHO, to make 3 separate discussions. All three should have been handled at one common discussion. UtherSRG (talk) 11:08, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per NOTMEMORIAL. Carrite ( talk) 04:44, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. Like many others have said, NOTMEMORIAL is not applicable here. The topic of this page has had wide and sustained media coverage, which is the basic criteria to keep an article in Wikipedia. WonderCanada ( talk) 08:24, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
- Delete. NOTMEMORIAL is applicable here, and the list is not otherwise notable. Stifle ( talk) 15:43, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
- Delete WP:NOTMEMORIAL Lightburst ( talk) 19:02, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
- Merge in abbreviated form to
Second Intifada. Cruel as it may sound, individual incidents in which a handful of civilians are killed in an ongoing terrorist campaign generally do not have standalone notability. I would cut this to a list of instances with deaths in the double figures, and summarize the collective remainder in a few lines of prose, accounting in prose as needed for any specific incidents that drew unusual attention relative to the deaths caused.
BD2412
T
03:58, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
- @ BD2412: FYI, most of this list is already duplicated here. Iskandar323 ( talk) 08:25, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.