- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. North America 1000 06:32, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
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- Kamil Tolon ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Not PD and probably cross-wiki creation spam Hulalup ( talk) 00:33, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
- Comment There are plenty of references in the article, including several in the national dailies Sabah and Hürriyet. He may not seem terribly interesting but multiple reliable independent sources think otherwise.
Mccapra (
talk)
02:03, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
- @ Mccapra: If you know Turkish or know someone who does it might help to list the relevant articles. Wikipedia:Notability_(people)#Basic_criteria states: "People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject." Generally if this is the case, the guy is notable. WhisperToMe ( talk) 08:10, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Turkey-related deletion discussions. Mccapra ( talk) 02:10, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. Mccapra ( talk) 02:10, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the
list of Engineering-related deletion discussions.
Mccapra (
talk)
02:10, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
- Yes I can read Turkish. If I have time this evening I will go through and describe all the sources provided. I haven’t examined them all yet but my sense is that this is an unusual article in that the subject seems very famous for not very much - basically re-inventing the washing machine, as far as I can see. So ultimately the question for us may be what we do if lots of good Turkish sources talk about this as a great achievement, while the rest of the world is left scratching their heads.
- And that's fine if the sources are all in Turkish: reliable sources may be in any language. See Wikipedia:Verifiability#Non-English_sources WhisperToMe ( talk) 09:08, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
- Yes I can read Turkish. If I have time this evening I will go through and describe all the sources provided. I haven’t examined them all yet but my sense is that this is an unusual article in that the subject seems very famous for not very much - basically re-inventing the washing machine, as far as I can see. So ultimately the question for us may be what we do if lots of good Turkish sources talk about this as a great achievement, while the rest of the world is left scratching their heads.
- Comment Ok this is what I have. He appears to be the a Turkish equivalent of Herbert William Hoover or James Dyson. His role as the founder of a major Turkish white goods brand isn’t clearly spelled out in the article. The sources are:
- 1. Substantial in depth piece by independent journalist in national daily newspaper
- 2. Ditto though the article is mostly about the company. Nevertheless clearly supports notability
- 3. YouTube video, discounted for notability
- 4. 5. 6. 7. 12. 18. Biography by the Bursa Chamber of Commerce, of which Tolon was a founder. It is certainly substantial and in depth. Independent in the sense that a long dead man didn’t influence its content, but not what we’d call independent scholarship.
- 8. 13. A book I can’t access. Looks similar to the previous one - celebratory account.
- 9. Is about the firm not its founder so doesn’t have a bearing on notability
- 10. Mentions the subject but mostly about the factory building
- 11. Significant coverage. I’m not familiar with Ekohaber but it doesn’t look like a junk source to me.
- 14. Can’t access this but it looks like probably a fairly minor mention. No opinion on the source itself.
- 15. Can’t access but likely to be mainly about the factory with relatively little coverage of the man
- 16. Quote about the subject by his grandson. Disregarding for notability.
- 17. List confirming he was chamber of commerce president. Irrelevant for notability.
Overall looks to me like notability is established. Mccapra ( talk) 21:06, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
- Keep. Mccapra ( talk) 18:40, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Keep as per Mccapra WhisperToMe ( talk) 16:39, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
- Keep as per Mccapra-- Yiğitcank ( talk) 16:43, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. North America 1000 06:32, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Kamil Tolon ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Not PD and probably cross-wiki creation spam Hulalup ( talk) 00:33, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
- Comment There are plenty of references in the article, including several in the national dailies Sabah and Hürriyet. He may not seem terribly interesting but multiple reliable independent sources think otherwise.
Mccapra (
talk)
02:03, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
- @ Mccapra: If you know Turkish or know someone who does it might help to list the relevant articles. Wikipedia:Notability_(people)#Basic_criteria states: "People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject." Generally if this is the case, the guy is notable. WhisperToMe ( talk) 08:10, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Turkey-related deletion discussions. Mccapra ( talk) 02:10, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. Mccapra ( talk) 02:10, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the
list of Engineering-related deletion discussions.
Mccapra (
talk)
02:10, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
- Yes I can read Turkish. If I have time this evening I will go through and describe all the sources provided. I haven’t examined them all yet but my sense is that this is an unusual article in that the subject seems very famous for not very much - basically re-inventing the washing machine, as far as I can see. So ultimately the question for us may be what we do if lots of good Turkish sources talk about this as a great achievement, while the rest of the world is left scratching their heads.
- And that's fine if the sources are all in Turkish: reliable sources may be in any language. See Wikipedia:Verifiability#Non-English_sources WhisperToMe ( talk) 09:08, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
- Yes I can read Turkish. If I have time this evening I will go through and describe all the sources provided. I haven’t examined them all yet but my sense is that this is an unusual article in that the subject seems very famous for not very much - basically re-inventing the washing machine, as far as I can see. So ultimately the question for us may be what we do if lots of good Turkish sources talk about this as a great achievement, while the rest of the world is left scratching their heads.
- Comment Ok this is what I have. He appears to be the a Turkish equivalent of Herbert William Hoover or James Dyson. His role as the founder of a major Turkish white goods brand isn’t clearly spelled out in the article. The sources are:
- 1. Substantial in depth piece by independent journalist in national daily newspaper
- 2. Ditto though the article is mostly about the company. Nevertheless clearly supports notability
- 3. YouTube video, discounted for notability
- 4. 5. 6. 7. 12. 18. Biography by the Bursa Chamber of Commerce, of which Tolon was a founder. It is certainly substantial and in depth. Independent in the sense that a long dead man didn’t influence its content, but not what we’d call independent scholarship.
- 8. 13. A book I can’t access. Looks similar to the previous one - celebratory account.
- 9. Is about the firm not its founder so doesn’t have a bearing on notability
- 10. Mentions the subject but mostly about the factory building
- 11. Significant coverage. I’m not familiar with Ekohaber but it doesn’t look like a junk source to me.
- 14. Can’t access this but it looks like probably a fairly minor mention. No opinion on the source itself.
- 15. Can’t access but likely to be mainly about the factory with relatively little coverage of the man
- 16. Quote about the subject by his grandson. Disregarding for notability.
- 17. List confirming he was chamber of commerce president. Irrelevant for notability.
Overall looks to me like notability is established. Mccapra ( talk) 21:06, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
- Keep. Mccapra ( talk) 18:40, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Keep as per Mccapra WhisperToMe ( talk) 16:39, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
- Keep as per Mccapra-- Yiğitcank ( talk) 16:43, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.