- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was redirect to Miss Iowa. The coverage appears to not be enough, but a redirect doesn't hurt. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 03:33, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
Jessica Pray
- Jessica Pray ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Pray's only present claim to notability is being Miss Iowa. This is not a title that confers default notability, and there is not enough coverage to pass the GNG. the coverage is all concentrated in eastern Iowa. Other coverage of her is largely from publications within her college community. Her role as a musician has not yet reached the level to make her notable for that. She may go on at some point in the future to become notable as a singer, but she has not done so yet. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 20:45, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Beauty pageants-related deletion discussions. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 20:48, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 20:50, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Iowa-related deletion discussions. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 20:52, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 20:53, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
- Delete - Agree that right now the subject does not meet notability guidelines, perhaps it is WP:TOOSOON regarding her musical career.--— CaroleHenson (talk) 00:46, 25 December 2016 (UTC)
- Keep I added nothing to this article. There are plenty of reinforcing sources available. The facts are already before him but he chose to ignore; Pray won Miss Iowa on June 11, 2011. She had a title reign as that title holder. She then competed for and was a top ten finisher in Miss America 2012 culminating on January 14, 2012. Trackinfo ( talk) 08:16, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 14:12, 25 December 2016 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Lepricavark ( talk) 00:09, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Lepricavark ( talk) 00:09, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
- Keep A check of WP:BEFORE D1 shows that the community has received less than the information from a minimum search expected in a deletion nomination. For example, the first link in Google News is from New Haven, Connecticut; and in the sixth snippet, the NYTimes states, "The songs, expressively conveyed by the soprano Jessica Pray..." If notability was an issue here, in the 14 minutes the nominator spent in preparing the deletion nomination, a policy-compliant merge to
Miss Iowa could have created a mini-bio there. The fact is that given a choice, members of Wikiproject Beauty Pageants have preferred to create standalone articles rather than group mini-bios on state-level pageants. So notability is a minor point, that picks between a standalone article and a merged mini-bio. But AfD is not cleanup, and one of the bottom lines in a volunteer organization is "who is willing to do the work".
Unscintillating (
talk) 19:30, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
- A one sentance mention in an article about other people is not enough to create notability. This [1] is the New York Times article mentioned. It is 8 paragraphs long. It mentions the 5 people whose work it is actually focusing on at the start of paragraph 2. Jessica Pray is mentioned at the start of Paragraph 4. Although they are actually mentioning Pray performing some of the works of Charles Ives. This is a trivial not a substantial mention. The first link in Google News comes from New Haven Connecticut because that is where Pray now lives. It highlights Pray performing a solo with the New Haven Symphony Orchestra when they performed Handel's Messiah. I do not think this is enough to establish a musicians notability. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 22:04, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 22:08, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
- Delete as the 2 Keep votes themselves state that mere participation is notability but yet we've established at nearly all of the AfDs that sole participating is not notability and this article itself only hangs by that specific information hence not in fact notable, regardless of what someone else thinks is "Notable for participation". SwisterTwister talk 00:54, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
- I assume that you agree that WP:Deletion policy#Alternatives to deletion and WP:Deletion policy#CONTENT are widely accepted policies that all editors should normally follow. In that context, how do you explain giving priority to WP:DEL8 over the alternatives to deletion that WP:PRESERVE our content contributions? Or is this a "secret" IAR !vote? Unscintillating ( talk) 02:36, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
- Delete The Miss Iowa crown alone doesn't merit an individual wikipedia entry so it is irrelevant; this is an argument if the subject meets notability standards per WP:MUSICAN. In that regards it fails. The cited sources are of the school/hometown "local-makes-good" variety and can hardly be considered significant evidence of notability in the world of music. Independent searches not cited in this article find a few trivial mentions that convey existence. Existence does not equal notability. ShelbyMarion ( talk) 15:42, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
- Since notability is a minor point for this topic; even with all you've said, you haven't explained why the topic should be deleted. Why are you !voting to delete? Unscintillating ( talk) 21:18, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was redirect to Miss Iowa. The coverage appears to not be enough, but a redirect doesn't hurt. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 03:33, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
Jessica Pray
- Jessica Pray ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Pray's only present claim to notability is being Miss Iowa. This is not a title that confers default notability, and there is not enough coverage to pass the GNG. the coverage is all concentrated in eastern Iowa. Other coverage of her is largely from publications within her college community. Her role as a musician has not yet reached the level to make her notable for that. She may go on at some point in the future to become notable as a singer, but she has not done so yet. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 20:45, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Beauty pageants-related deletion discussions. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 20:48, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 20:50, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Iowa-related deletion discussions. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 20:52, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 20:53, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
- Delete - Agree that right now the subject does not meet notability guidelines, perhaps it is WP:TOOSOON regarding her musical career.--— CaroleHenson (talk) 00:46, 25 December 2016 (UTC)
- Keep I added nothing to this article. There are plenty of reinforcing sources available. The facts are already before him but he chose to ignore; Pray won Miss Iowa on June 11, 2011. She had a title reign as that title holder. She then competed for and was a top ten finisher in Miss America 2012 culminating on January 14, 2012. Trackinfo ( talk) 08:16, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 14:12, 25 December 2016 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Lepricavark ( talk) 00:09, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Lepricavark ( talk) 00:09, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
- Keep A check of WP:BEFORE D1 shows that the community has received less than the information from a minimum search expected in a deletion nomination. For example, the first link in Google News is from New Haven, Connecticut; and in the sixth snippet, the NYTimes states, "The songs, expressively conveyed by the soprano Jessica Pray..." If notability was an issue here, in the 14 minutes the nominator spent in preparing the deletion nomination, a policy-compliant merge to
Miss Iowa could have created a mini-bio there. The fact is that given a choice, members of Wikiproject Beauty Pageants have preferred to create standalone articles rather than group mini-bios on state-level pageants. So notability is a minor point, that picks between a standalone article and a merged mini-bio. But AfD is not cleanup, and one of the bottom lines in a volunteer organization is "who is willing to do the work".
Unscintillating (
talk) 19:30, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
- A one sentance mention in an article about other people is not enough to create notability. This [1] is the New York Times article mentioned. It is 8 paragraphs long. It mentions the 5 people whose work it is actually focusing on at the start of paragraph 2. Jessica Pray is mentioned at the start of Paragraph 4. Although they are actually mentioning Pray performing some of the works of Charles Ives. This is a trivial not a substantial mention. The first link in Google News comes from New Haven Connecticut because that is where Pray now lives. It highlights Pray performing a solo with the New Haven Symphony Orchestra when they performed Handel's Messiah. I do not think this is enough to establish a musicians notability. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 22:04, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 22:08, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
- Delete as the 2 Keep votes themselves state that mere participation is notability but yet we've established at nearly all of the AfDs that sole participating is not notability and this article itself only hangs by that specific information hence not in fact notable, regardless of what someone else thinks is "Notable for participation". SwisterTwister talk 00:54, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
- I assume that you agree that WP:Deletion policy#Alternatives to deletion and WP:Deletion policy#CONTENT are widely accepted policies that all editors should normally follow. In that context, how do you explain giving priority to WP:DEL8 over the alternatives to deletion that WP:PRESERVE our content contributions? Or is this a "secret" IAR !vote? Unscintillating ( talk) 02:36, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
- Delete The Miss Iowa crown alone doesn't merit an individual wikipedia entry so it is irrelevant; this is an argument if the subject meets notability standards per WP:MUSICAN. In that regards it fails. The cited sources are of the school/hometown "local-makes-good" variety and can hardly be considered significant evidence of notability in the world of music. Independent searches not cited in this article find a few trivial mentions that convey existence. Existence does not equal notability. ShelbyMarion ( talk) 15:42, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
- Since notability is a minor point for this topic; even with all you've said, you haven't explained why the topic should be deleted. Why are you !voting to delete? Unscintillating ( talk) 21:18, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.