- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. WP:HEY Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 19:00, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Hypertime ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This is a term from a comic book series that has no coverage in reliable third party sources, failing the general notability guideline. Even as is, this is a fictional term that only has WP:TRIVIALMENTIONs in the primary sources itself, and is really just a list of plots that have mentioned it. Wikpiedia articles are WP:NOTPLOT details, and there's no third party coverage that will allow us to give this a proper encyclopedic treatment. Shooterwalker ( talk) 19:30, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Shooterwalker ( talk) 19:30, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions. Toughpigs ( talk) 19:38, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the Article Rescue Squadron's list of content for rescue consideration. Andrew🐉( talk) 19:43, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- Redirect to Multiverse (DC Comics), which is the broader topic in which Hypertime is already discussed. The current article has no salvageable material, being comprised entirely of primary sourced, in-universe trivia, but it is a plausible enough search term to redirect to the main topic. Rorshacma ( talk) 19:57, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
- Keep Covered in detail in sources such as What Does Hypertime's Return Mean For The DC Universe's Rebirth?; American Comic Book Chronicles. Andrew🐉( talk) 09:44, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
- Delete Per WP:REDLINK. Hypertime is an actual theoretical concept, which is already in Wiktionary. This fictional concept that fails WP:GNG does not belong here at this name, better to let Wikipedia's search function show users the potential options, or leave things open for a physics article in the future. ZXCVBNM ( TALK) 16:16, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
- Wiktionary's entry is "Any of various fictional or theoretical time-like constructs that extend beyond normal time, usually by encompassing or spanning many distinct timelines (sometimes infinitely many)." That's just what we have here; no difference. Andrew🐉( talk) 19:46, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- That just means that comic books cribbed the real life idea. Perhaps a compromise can be found if the article's scope was changed to "hypertime" as a sci-fi concept, while the comic book usage became a section of it. ZXCVBNM ( TALK) 19:49, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- Weak delete or redirect/merge per Rorshacma. The source Andrew found ( [1]) is actually not bad (yes, I was surprised too, but it happens). Still, it is just one source and we need at least two to satisfy GNG requirement of multiple in-depth sources. If anyone can find one more, I'd reconsider my vote, although per ZXCVBNM, it should likely be renamed to Hypertime (DC Comics) if the term is indeed also used in real science, with the current title becoming a disambig. PS. Yes, Andrew also found one more source but I think the coverage of this term there is in passing and not in-depth, just a few sentences and not even a proper para dedicated to the concept. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:03, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
- Delete. Non-notable. Also, more fundamentally, we can't verify fictional sources. -- Lockley ( talk) 02:18, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- Huh? But you can verify real sources writing about fictional works or concepts. You have confused WP:Truth with WP:Verifiability. 7&6=thirteen ( ☎) 14:53, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- Redirect, it fails notability but may be redirected to Multiverse (DC Comics), Alex-h ( talk) 09:40, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- Keep Added
another twomany good sources. I am sure there are more. Meets WP:GNG. No compliance with WP:Before, as the revised state of this article now proves. WP:HEY 7&6=thirteen ( ☎) 18:29, 4 July 2020 (UTC) - Keep I added more sources, seems to pass WP:GNG, plenty of independent coverage in reliable sources. Theroadislong ( talk) 19:14, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- Comment This reference is a fansite, and not a reliable source. This one and this one are the same source, just reprinted in two different publications, and the latter cites its information to a geocities fansite. This one was published by Lulu.com, as in, a self-published book that is therefore not a reliable source. And finally this one is a single sentence mention of the word that doesn't even really explain what the term means. So no, many good sources were not added here. Rorshacma ( talk) 22:09, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- Keep: I added the passage from American Comic Book Chronicles: The 1990s, an independent, published reliable source that speaks directly to the topic. Folks can keep nitpicking on sources, but I think that it's been demonstrated that Hypertime has been discussed in books and in the comics press as a somewhat controversial topic, more interesting as an out-of-universe narrative trick than it is in-universe. The article needs to be cleaned up and improved, but the subject is notable. — Toughpigs ( talk) 02:02, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- KEEP The article has been massively improved since the deletion nomination. [2] Reliable sources have been found proving it passes the general notability guidelines. Dream Focus 16:41, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. WP:HEY Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 19:00, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Hypertime ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This is a term from a comic book series that has no coverage in reliable third party sources, failing the general notability guideline. Even as is, this is a fictional term that only has WP:TRIVIALMENTIONs in the primary sources itself, and is really just a list of plots that have mentioned it. Wikpiedia articles are WP:NOTPLOT details, and there's no third party coverage that will allow us to give this a proper encyclopedic treatment. Shooterwalker ( talk) 19:30, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Shooterwalker ( talk) 19:30, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions. Toughpigs ( talk) 19:38, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the Article Rescue Squadron's list of content for rescue consideration. Andrew🐉( talk) 19:43, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- Redirect to Multiverse (DC Comics), which is the broader topic in which Hypertime is already discussed. The current article has no salvageable material, being comprised entirely of primary sourced, in-universe trivia, but it is a plausible enough search term to redirect to the main topic. Rorshacma ( talk) 19:57, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
- Keep Covered in detail in sources such as What Does Hypertime's Return Mean For The DC Universe's Rebirth?; American Comic Book Chronicles. Andrew🐉( talk) 09:44, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
- Delete Per WP:REDLINK. Hypertime is an actual theoretical concept, which is already in Wiktionary. This fictional concept that fails WP:GNG does not belong here at this name, better to let Wikipedia's search function show users the potential options, or leave things open for a physics article in the future. ZXCVBNM ( TALK) 16:16, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
- Wiktionary's entry is "Any of various fictional or theoretical time-like constructs that extend beyond normal time, usually by encompassing or spanning many distinct timelines (sometimes infinitely many)." That's just what we have here; no difference. Andrew🐉( talk) 19:46, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- That just means that comic books cribbed the real life idea. Perhaps a compromise can be found if the article's scope was changed to "hypertime" as a sci-fi concept, while the comic book usage became a section of it. ZXCVBNM ( TALK) 19:49, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- Weak delete or redirect/merge per Rorshacma. The source Andrew found ( [1]) is actually not bad (yes, I was surprised too, but it happens). Still, it is just one source and we need at least two to satisfy GNG requirement of multiple in-depth sources. If anyone can find one more, I'd reconsider my vote, although per ZXCVBNM, it should likely be renamed to Hypertime (DC Comics) if the term is indeed also used in real science, with the current title becoming a disambig. PS. Yes, Andrew also found one more source but I think the coverage of this term there is in passing and not in-depth, just a few sentences and not even a proper para dedicated to the concept. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:03, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
- Delete. Non-notable. Also, more fundamentally, we can't verify fictional sources. -- Lockley ( talk) 02:18, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- Huh? But you can verify real sources writing about fictional works or concepts. You have confused WP:Truth with WP:Verifiability. 7&6=thirteen ( ☎) 14:53, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- Redirect, it fails notability but may be redirected to Multiverse (DC Comics), Alex-h ( talk) 09:40, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- Keep Added
another twomany good sources. I am sure there are more. Meets WP:GNG. No compliance with WP:Before, as the revised state of this article now proves. WP:HEY 7&6=thirteen ( ☎) 18:29, 4 July 2020 (UTC) - Keep I added more sources, seems to pass WP:GNG, plenty of independent coverage in reliable sources. Theroadislong ( talk) 19:14, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- Comment This reference is a fansite, and not a reliable source. This one and this one are the same source, just reprinted in two different publications, and the latter cites its information to a geocities fansite. This one was published by Lulu.com, as in, a self-published book that is therefore not a reliable source. And finally this one is a single sentence mention of the word that doesn't even really explain what the term means. So no, many good sources were not added here. Rorshacma ( talk) 22:09, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- Keep: I added the passage from American Comic Book Chronicles: The 1990s, an independent, published reliable source that speaks directly to the topic. Folks can keep nitpicking on sources, but I think that it's been demonstrated that Hypertime has been discussed in books and in the comics press as a somewhat controversial topic, more interesting as an out-of-universe narrative trick than it is in-universe. The article needs to be cleaned up and improved, but the subject is notable. — Toughpigs ( talk) 02:02, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- KEEP The article has been massively improved since the deletion nomination. [2] Reliable sources have been found proving it passes the general notability guidelines. Dream Focus 16:41, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.