- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. Black Kite (talk) 18:56, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
Hap Palmer
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- Hap Palmer ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Possibly redirect to Baby Songs, but there is zero coverage in RS out there for this children's entertainer - and none in the article, either. Alexandermcnabb ( talk) 08:28, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Music, Education, and United States of America. Alexandermcnabb ( talk) 08:28, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete: NN Musician. Fails WP:GNG and WP:NMUSICIAN. UtherSRG (talk) 10:59, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete: Fails WP:NMUSICIAN and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Hey man im josh ( talk) 12:48, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
- Speedy and Strong Keep Article content may not establish notability, but the artist was exceptionally popular in earlier days, Most coverage for the artist is from an era before the internet was around, so lack of readily available sources is inevitable....as WP policy states "Notability is not temporary"
- Evidence of notability:
- 1. Almost a thousand listings in Worldcat with some of his individual albums being in the collections of hundreds of libraries. (we have articles on here for musicians :who don't come close to this figure)
- 2. His recordings part of the Smithsonian Folkways collection. I can't think of a much larger prestige for an artist to have their work sold by the United States' national museum.
- Article obviously could use some cleanup, but it is clearly salvageable.--
T1980 (
talk) 21:41, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
- Then those references need to be found. - UtherSRG (talk) 22:49, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
- Note: T1980's comment is entirely based on an WP:Argument to avoid in deletion discussions as UtherSRG alluded to. Toddst1 ( talk) 13:51, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete Lacks in-depth coverage to meet WP:NBIO. MrsSnoozyTurtle 22:14, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
- Comment Allmusic have a biography of Palmer - I have added the reference to the article; this should count as an independent reliable source with sig cov. When I have time I will look for more.Resonant Distortion 07:41, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
- Keep I've added more citations to reliable sources including from
Smithsonian Folkways and a full page article from the
LA Times. Resonant
Distortion 08:15, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
- There are numerous reviews of Palmers work in the
School Library Journal over several years - which is further independent sourcing - several of these are now referenced in the article. E2A: With the LA Times article and Allmusic bio (which is reliable per
WP:RSMUSIC) this article has multiple sources thus meeting
WP:SINGER#1.Resonant
Distortion 14:51, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
- Furthermore the Smithsonian Folkways label has 36 albums by Palmer. Unless I am missing something - this massively exceeds WP:SINGER#5 which requires Has released two or more albums on a major record label. Resonant Distortion 07:59, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
- There are numerous reviews of Palmers work in the
School Library Journal over several years - which is further independent sourcing - several of these are now referenced in the article. E2A: With the LA Times article and Allmusic bio (which is reliable per
WP:RSMUSIC) this article has multiple sources thus meeting
WP:SINGER#1.Resonant
Distortion 14:51, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete: The Smithsonian Folkways "reference" is merely a catalog entry. The LA Times article is a reliable source but GNG requires significant coverage in reliable sources, not just one. Not even close on WP:NMUSICIAN. Toddst1 ( talk) 13:47, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
- Keep as the AllMusic entry confirms the winning of at least one notable award and the LA Times article is significant content, imv Atlantic306 ( talk) 01:51, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. Created a body of work that is noted by childhood educators (one e.g. Gilbert, A. G. (2015). Creative Dance for All Ages. United Kingdom: Human Kinetics.) so passes WP:CREATIVE and won a notable award, therefore arguable pass at WP:ANYBIO criterion 1. CT55555( talk) 17:15, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
- Keep per GNG. In addition to the LA Times article, there are two book authors who assert notability:
- Jill Jarlow in All Ears (Viking, 1991) called him one of America's most prolific children's song writers, who makes innovative and award-winning recordings. [1]
- Sonia Taitz in Mothering Heights ( William Morrow, 1992) said he is "famous for his [song] videos". [2]
References
- ^ Jarnow, Jill (1991). "Hap Palmer". All Ears: How to Choose and Use Recorded Music for Children. New York: Viking. p. 139. ISBN 9780670823130.
- ^ Taitz, Sonia (1992). Mothering Heights: Reclaiming Motherhood From the Experts. New York: William Morrow. p. 111. ISBN 9780688105884.
- Keep meets WP:GNG. Article has been improved during AfD. Lightburst ( talk) 13:43, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. Black Kite (talk) 18:56, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
Hap Palmer
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Hap Palmer ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Possibly redirect to Baby Songs, but there is zero coverage in RS out there for this children's entertainer - and none in the article, either. Alexandermcnabb ( talk) 08:28, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Music, Education, and United States of America. Alexandermcnabb ( talk) 08:28, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete: NN Musician. Fails WP:GNG and WP:NMUSICIAN. UtherSRG (talk) 10:59, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete: Fails WP:NMUSICIAN and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Hey man im josh ( talk) 12:48, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
- Speedy and Strong Keep Article content may not establish notability, but the artist was exceptionally popular in earlier days, Most coverage for the artist is from an era before the internet was around, so lack of readily available sources is inevitable....as WP policy states "Notability is not temporary"
- Evidence of notability:
- 1. Almost a thousand listings in Worldcat with some of his individual albums being in the collections of hundreds of libraries. (we have articles on here for musicians :who don't come close to this figure)
- 2. His recordings part of the Smithsonian Folkways collection. I can't think of a much larger prestige for an artist to have their work sold by the United States' national museum.
- Article obviously could use some cleanup, but it is clearly salvageable.--
T1980 (
talk) 21:41, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
- Then those references need to be found. - UtherSRG (talk) 22:49, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
- Note: T1980's comment is entirely based on an WP:Argument to avoid in deletion discussions as UtherSRG alluded to. Toddst1 ( talk) 13:51, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete Lacks in-depth coverage to meet WP:NBIO. MrsSnoozyTurtle 22:14, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
- Comment Allmusic have a biography of Palmer - I have added the reference to the article; this should count as an independent reliable source with sig cov. When I have time I will look for more.Resonant Distortion 07:41, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
- Keep I've added more citations to reliable sources including from
Smithsonian Folkways and a full page article from the
LA Times. Resonant
Distortion 08:15, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
- There are numerous reviews of Palmers work in the
School Library Journal over several years - which is further independent sourcing - several of these are now referenced in the article. E2A: With the LA Times article and Allmusic bio (which is reliable per
WP:RSMUSIC) this article has multiple sources thus meeting
WP:SINGER#1.Resonant
Distortion 14:51, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
- Furthermore the Smithsonian Folkways label has 36 albums by Palmer. Unless I am missing something - this massively exceeds WP:SINGER#5 which requires Has released two or more albums on a major record label. Resonant Distortion 07:59, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
- There are numerous reviews of Palmers work in the
School Library Journal over several years - which is further independent sourcing - several of these are now referenced in the article. E2A: With the LA Times article and Allmusic bio (which is reliable per
WP:RSMUSIC) this article has multiple sources thus meeting
WP:SINGER#1.Resonant
Distortion 14:51, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
- Delete: The Smithsonian Folkways "reference" is merely a catalog entry. The LA Times article is a reliable source but GNG requires significant coverage in reliable sources, not just one. Not even close on WP:NMUSICIAN. Toddst1 ( talk) 13:47, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
- Keep as the AllMusic entry confirms the winning of at least one notable award and the LA Times article is significant content, imv Atlantic306 ( talk) 01:51, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. Created a body of work that is noted by childhood educators (one e.g. Gilbert, A. G. (2015). Creative Dance for All Ages. United Kingdom: Human Kinetics.) so passes WP:CREATIVE and won a notable award, therefore arguable pass at WP:ANYBIO criterion 1. CT55555( talk) 17:15, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
- Keep per GNG. In addition to the LA Times article, there are two book authors who assert notability:
- Jill Jarlow in All Ears (Viking, 1991) called him one of America's most prolific children's song writers, who makes innovative and award-winning recordings. [1]
- Sonia Taitz in Mothering Heights ( William Morrow, 1992) said he is "famous for his [song] videos". [2]
References
- ^ Jarnow, Jill (1991). "Hap Palmer". All Ears: How to Choose and Use Recorded Music for Children. New York: Viking. p. 139. ISBN 9780670823130.
- ^ Taitz, Sonia (1992). Mothering Heights: Reclaiming Motherhood From the Experts. New York: William Morrow. p. 111. ISBN 9780688105884.
- Keep meets WP:GNG. Article has been improved during AfD. Lightburst ( talk) 13:43, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.