The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Keep Plays in a top division and sounds like he is a prolific striker. Has played in Cup competition that asserts more notability. There are sources available. GNG seems like less of a problem than FOOTY and footy doesn't mean much if it is just a tool to limit articles.
Cptnono (
talk)
08:03, 24 January 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete - Player fails
WP:NFOOTY as has not played in a
fully professional league, nor senior international football. No indication of any other achievements that have garnered sufficient, significant coverage to satisfy
WP:GNG. The CIS cup is a minor competition and it's geographically restricted nature means that winning or being top scorer is nothing of particular note. His European appearances are almost entirely non notable, no club he has ever played for has made anything other than the most cursory impact on the continental scene. Additionally being top scorer in a league ranked relatively lowly on a continental scale does not inherently confer notability.
Fenix down (
talk)
15:22, 29 January 2015 (UTC)reply
Will pass
WP:GNG.The Player played several appearances in matches against
Borussia Dortmundhere and
here and other leading clubs in Europe. Another Editor had stated
Previous AFD here it's inconceivable that if one had access to local press, that there wouldn't be abundant evidence to meet WP:GNG. To suggest deletion of this article is an extreme example of
Bias . As there little access to local Azerbaijani and Georgian media as he is one of there all time leading players in the league and football is the number one sport there .
Pharaoh of the Wizards (
talk)
17:42, 30 January 2015 (UTC)reply
And the assumptions of bad faith begin anew... This is not North Korea or Somalia we're talking about. Internet access is readily available in Georgia and Azerbaijan, and the local press take full advantage of it. And yet, through two afd's now, no one has provided any evidence that he has received significant coverage from them, or anywhere else for that matter, without which this article fails both relevant notability guidelines.
Sir Sputnik (
talk)
18:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)reply
I quite agree. A group of editors inability to read a given language does not mean notability should be assumed and it certainly isn't biased by default.
Fenix down (
talk)
20:06, 30 January 2015 (UTC)reply
Sorry if it appeared otherwise and is a General statement was only pointing that league season's top scorer and most capped foreign player
as per this and
League's top scorer and the
Top scorer in Commonwealth of Independent States Cup are from foreign sources nothing from Azeri or Georgian sources even in other articles from many countries one does not find local sources in non English languages that is all pointed out raised by another editor in the
Previous AFD . Football is the National sport in these countries would expect that League's top scorer and one of the all time leading players would be notable if you one had greater access to local language sources and raised this because he is not just another player playing the in there league but one of there all time best players.
Pharaoh of the Wizards (
talk)
02:58, 31 January 2015 (UTC)reply
That's one
routine stats site, one two paragraph article on the player and one season summary for the country that mentions him in a couple of sentences. Where is GNG in that?
Fenix down (
talk)
03:55, 31 January 2015 (UTC)reply
Per this ყოველდღიური სპორტული გაზეთი "ლელო" that is attributing this to Lelo .These are from
Lelo Georgia's oldest sports newspaper
[1] ,
[2][3] and
[4] while this
[5] is attributed to Azeri Sport.There are not routine coverage and are articles about him with his photograph in all articles.
Pharaoh of the Wizards (
talk)
14:18, 31 January 2015 (UTC)reply
And like I said, what do they say? How do I know they aren't just routine match reports. I note nothing has been added to the article or using them. I'm not saying you haven't found significant coverage but you need to be able to articulate what the sources say.
Fenix down (
talk)
16:42, 31 January 2015 (UTC)reply
Sorry for my delay in replying.None of them is strictly
WP:routine I have added translation as requested and I have not included any post match interview and one is allowed to use foreign language sources and all of them are about him with his photograph in them .
Pharaoh of the Wizards (
talk)
03:55, 1 February 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete – Has not played in a
WP:FPL (what constitutes an FPL is a subject for discussion
here) and does not appear to have played in a FIFA tier-1 match. All coverage listed is either statistical or otherwise
WP:ROUTINE, thus
WP:GNG is also failed. —
Jkudlicktcs01:47, 1 February 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep With 7 Champions League appearances and 22 Europa League appearances over the last decade, and being the top goalscorer in the top league in a country where football is the top sport, it's inconceivable that if one had access to local press, that there wouldn't be abundant evidence to meet
WP:GNG. To suggest deletion of this article is an extreme example of
WP:BIAS.
Nfitz (
talk)
15:32, 1 February 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep National player is good enough for me. A national cap in soccer should meet
WP:ANYBIO. All the best: RichFarmbrough, 02:54, 6 February 2015 (UTC).
Strong Keep. There is no reason than
WP:IDONTLIKEIT to delete this article. The Azerbaijan league is a fully professional league. You have NO evidence that he hasn't played in a fully professional league. Your examples of Emin Amiraslanov, Amil Agajanov, Samir Abdulov etc are also meaningless because Wikipedia works on a case-by-case basis. All you have demonstrated is that
WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Finally, your claim that he hasn't "received significant coverage" is called we call
WP:BIAS on wikipedia. Perhaps YOU haven't read any articles about him in YOUR language. This doesn't mean he hasn't received coverage in other languages, as is witnessed by a full "references" section. This is irrespective of your personal opinions of whether the media in another country is less important than the media in your own country and it is NOT your decision to make the call that this player hasn't received coverage based on an English language google search.
As for
Sir Sputnik's behavior, I can't believe that, as the creator of this page, I wasn't notified of this discussion on my talk page. The statement "I have every reason to believe consensus is now possible" is also very telling. Your definition of "consensus" seems to mean your point of view, regardless of the views of the rest of the community. It is very difficult to assume good faith when this discussion is sneaked by like this.--BoguSlav06:42, 6 February 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep GNG is met. Potential professional league (well, likely but FOOTY can be weird). The regional Cup play does it for me. This subject could be a great article and shouldn't be deleted just because some players in a similar spot don't meet the criteria. National bias, much? (not in a poopey nationalistic sense but in non English speaking nations sort of way if that makes any sense)
Cptnono (
talk)
02:17, 8 February 2015 (UTC)reply
The Azerbaijan league IS FULLY PROFESSIONAL!
This article states that the salaries of players in the league range from $5,000 to $66,000 a month.
Another article states that the top 3 clubs in Azerbaijan have a yearly budget of more than $10 million. It also states that the highest paid players get around 600 euro a year.
Another article says that professional players in the Azerbaijan league get salaries that are many times higher than those of the average Azerbaijani. These are just the first three articles I came across. I could very easily find a lot more. I'm waiting for the
WP:BIASed editors to now tell me that this is not enough evidence because it is not in the Anglophone media or something to that effect.--BoguSlav07:10, 6 February 2015 (UTC)reply
The correct place to discuss whether the Azerbaijan League is fully professional is at
WT:FPL. That said, I would be willing to recommend that this AfD be placed on hold pending discussion there. If consensus there is that the league is fully professional, then Adamia meets
WP:NFOOTY and the article can be kept and improved. If not, then he doesn't and the article can be deleted. It seems obvious to me that this AfD is not going to reach any particular consensus until then. —
Jkudlicktcs08:24, 6 February 2015 (UTC)reply
The professionality of Azerbaijani football can be discussed at
WP:FPL, but there's no reason the discussion can't also take place here. We've certainly concluded a league is fully professional in a AFD before without any discussion at
WP:FPL.
Nfitz (
talk)
03:29, 7 February 2015 (UTC)reply
And by "consensus" you mean that you hope more people will come around to your point of view to delete the article. You have also not responded at all to the points I have brought up. And we can discuss this issue anywhere it's necessary. Per
Wikipedia:WikiProject, "WikiProjects are not rule-making organizations. WikiProjects have no special rights or privileges compared to other editors ". I do not need to ask for the approval of WikiProject Football regarding every football-related topic. A WikiProject is simply a group of editors focusing on a specific topic. However, even if we do go by the recommendations of WP:FOOTY, Giorgi Adamia is still notable because he does play in a fully professional league. --BoguSlav02:46, 7 February 2015 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Keep Plays in a top division and sounds like he is a prolific striker. Has played in Cup competition that asserts more notability. There are sources available. GNG seems like less of a problem than FOOTY and footy doesn't mean much if it is just a tool to limit articles.
Cptnono (
talk)
08:03, 24 January 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete - Player fails
WP:NFOOTY as has not played in a
fully professional league, nor senior international football. No indication of any other achievements that have garnered sufficient, significant coverage to satisfy
WP:GNG. The CIS cup is a minor competition and it's geographically restricted nature means that winning or being top scorer is nothing of particular note. His European appearances are almost entirely non notable, no club he has ever played for has made anything other than the most cursory impact on the continental scene. Additionally being top scorer in a league ranked relatively lowly on a continental scale does not inherently confer notability.
Fenix down (
talk)
15:22, 29 January 2015 (UTC)reply
Will pass
WP:GNG.The Player played several appearances in matches against
Borussia Dortmundhere and
here and other leading clubs in Europe. Another Editor had stated
Previous AFD here it's inconceivable that if one had access to local press, that there wouldn't be abundant evidence to meet WP:GNG. To suggest deletion of this article is an extreme example of
Bias . As there little access to local Azerbaijani and Georgian media as he is one of there all time leading players in the league and football is the number one sport there .
Pharaoh of the Wizards (
talk)
17:42, 30 January 2015 (UTC)reply
And the assumptions of bad faith begin anew... This is not North Korea or Somalia we're talking about. Internet access is readily available in Georgia and Azerbaijan, and the local press take full advantage of it. And yet, through two afd's now, no one has provided any evidence that he has received significant coverage from them, or anywhere else for that matter, without which this article fails both relevant notability guidelines.
Sir Sputnik (
talk)
18:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)reply
I quite agree. A group of editors inability to read a given language does not mean notability should be assumed and it certainly isn't biased by default.
Fenix down (
talk)
20:06, 30 January 2015 (UTC)reply
Sorry if it appeared otherwise and is a General statement was only pointing that league season's top scorer and most capped foreign player
as per this and
League's top scorer and the
Top scorer in Commonwealth of Independent States Cup are from foreign sources nothing from Azeri or Georgian sources even in other articles from many countries one does not find local sources in non English languages that is all pointed out raised by another editor in the
Previous AFD . Football is the National sport in these countries would expect that League's top scorer and one of the all time leading players would be notable if you one had greater access to local language sources and raised this because he is not just another player playing the in there league but one of there all time best players.
Pharaoh of the Wizards (
talk)
02:58, 31 January 2015 (UTC)reply
That's one
routine stats site, one two paragraph article on the player and one season summary for the country that mentions him in a couple of sentences. Where is GNG in that?
Fenix down (
talk)
03:55, 31 January 2015 (UTC)reply
Per this ყოველდღიური სპორტული გაზეთი "ლელო" that is attributing this to Lelo .These are from
Lelo Georgia's oldest sports newspaper
[1] ,
[2][3] and
[4] while this
[5] is attributed to Azeri Sport.There are not routine coverage and are articles about him with his photograph in all articles.
Pharaoh of the Wizards (
talk)
14:18, 31 January 2015 (UTC)reply
And like I said, what do they say? How do I know they aren't just routine match reports. I note nothing has been added to the article or using them. I'm not saying you haven't found significant coverage but you need to be able to articulate what the sources say.
Fenix down (
talk)
16:42, 31 January 2015 (UTC)reply
Sorry for my delay in replying.None of them is strictly
WP:routine I have added translation as requested and I have not included any post match interview and one is allowed to use foreign language sources and all of them are about him with his photograph in them .
Pharaoh of the Wizards (
talk)
03:55, 1 February 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete – Has not played in a
WP:FPL (what constitutes an FPL is a subject for discussion
here) and does not appear to have played in a FIFA tier-1 match. All coverage listed is either statistical or otherwise
WP:ROUTINE, thus
WP:GNG is also failed. —
Jkudlicktcs01:47, 1 February 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep With 7 Champions League appearances and 22 Europa League appearances over the last decade, and being the top goalscorer in the top league in a country where football is the top sport, it's inconceivable that if one had access to local press, that there wouldn't be abundant evidence to meet
WP:GNG. To suggest deletion of this article is an extreme example of
WP:BIAS.
Nfitz (
talk)
15:32, 1 February 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep National player is good enough for me. A national cap in soccer should meet
WP:ANYBIO. All the best: RichFarmbrough, 02:54, 6 February 2015 (UTC).
Strong Keep. There is no reason than
WP:IDONTLIKEIT to delete this article. The Azerbaijan league is a fully professional league. You have NO evidence that he hasn't played in a fully professional league. Your examples of Emin Amiraslanov, Amil Agajanov, Samir Abdulov etc are also meaningless because Wikipedia works on a case-by-case basis. All you have demonstrated is that
WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Finally, your claim that he hasn't "received significant coverage" is called we call
WP:BIAS on wikipedia. Perhaps YOU haven't read any articles about him in YOUR language. This doesn't mean he hasn't received coverage in other languages, as is witnessed by a full "references" section. This is irrespective of your personal opinions of whether the media in another country is less important than the media in your own country and it is NOT your decision to make the call that this player hasn't received coverage based on an English language google search.
As for
Sir Sputnik's behavior, I can't believe that, as the creator of this page, I wasn't notified of this discussion on my talk page. The statement "I have every reason to believe consensus is now possible" is also very telling. Your definition of "consensus" seems to mean your point of view, regardless of the views of the rest of the community. It is very difficult to assume good faith when this discussion is sneaked by like this.--BoguSlav06:42, 6 February 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep GNG is met. Potential professional league (well, likely but FOOTY can be weird). The regional Cup play does it for me. This subject could be a great article and shouldn't be deleted just because some players in a similar spot don't meet the criteria. National bias, much? (not in a poopey nationalistic sense but in non English speaking nations sort of way if that makes any sense)
Cptnono (
talk)
02:17, 8 February 2015 (UTC)reply
The Azerbaijan league IS FULLY PROFESSIONAL!
This article states that the salaries of players in the league range from $5,000 to $66,000 a month.
Another article states that the top 3 clubs in Azerbaijan have a yearly budget of more than $10 million. It also states that the highest paid players get around 600 euro a year.
Another article says that professional players in the Azerbaijan league get salaries that are many times higher than those of the average Azerbaijani. These are just the first three articles I came across. I could very easily find a lot more. I'm waiting for the
WP:BIASed editors to now tell me that this is not enough evidence because it is not in the Anglophone media or something to that effect.--BoguSlav07:10, 6 February 2015 (UTC)reply
The correct place to discuss whether the Azerbaijan League is fully professional is at
WT:FPL. That said, I would be willing to recommend that this AfD be placed on hold pending discussion there. If consensus there is that the league is fully professional, then Adamia meets
WP:NFOOTY and the article can be kept and improved. If not, then he doesn't and the article can be deleted. It seems obvious to me that this AfD is not going to reach any particular consensus until then. —
Jkudlicktcs08:24, 6 February 2015 (UTC)reply
The professionality of Azerbaijani football can be discussed at
WP:FPL, but there's no reason the discussion can't also take place here. We've certainly concluded a league is fully professional in a AFD before without any discussion at
WP:FPL.
Nfitz (
talk)
03:29, 7 February 2015 (UTC)reply
And by "consensus" you mean that you hope more people will come around to your point of view to delete the article. You have also not responded at all to the points I have brought up. And we can discuss this issue anywhere it's necessary. Per
Wikipedia:WikiProject, "WikiProjects are not rule-making organizations. WikiProjects have no special rights or privileges compared to other editors ". I do not need to ask for the approval of WikiProject Football regarding every football-related topic. A WikiProject is simply a group of editors focusing on a specific topic. However, even if we do go by the recommendations of WP:FOOTY, Giorgi Adamia is still notable because he does play in a fully professional league. --BoguSlav02:46, 7 February 2015 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.