- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was WP:SNOW move dab to George Floyd (disambiguation) and redirect George Floyd to Death of George Floyd. No prejudice against the deletion of the dab page, but that can be done through non-snow discussion. -- JHunterJ ( talk) 18:30, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
George Floyd
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Unnecessary disambiguation. Death of George Floyd is clearly the primary topic. Per WP:ONEOTHER, "If there are only two topics to which a given title might refer, and one is the primary topic, then a disambiguation page is not needed". As a side note, George Floyd should probably instead redirect to Death of George Floyd. Bait30 Talk 2 me pls? 06:12, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Bait30 Talk 2 me pls? 06:12, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. Bait30 Talk 2 me pls? 06:12, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. Bait30 Talk 2 me pls? 06:12, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Disambiguations-related deletion discussions. Bait30 Talk 2 me pls? 06:12, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Minnesota-related deletion discussions. Bait30 Talk 2 me pls? 06:12, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- This might have made more sense at
Requested Moves than AfD. However, I agree with the nominator. Pageviews are trending extremely high (nearly 200,000 on May 28!) and it's incredibly clear that we have a
WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, as the article now at
George Floyd (American football) was in the single digits on pageviews in days prior to this incident. This makes sense to do without delay. Support nominator's proposal.
Raymie (
t •
c)
06:25, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- I was thinking of WP:RM at first, but (maybe because I’m tired) I couldn’t and still can’t wrap my head around how it would work through that process. Because I don’t want to move “Death of George Floyd” to “George Floyd” and I definitely didn’t want to move the content of the disambiguation page to the “Death of George Floyd” page. To me this was the easiest method, logistically speaking. Bait30 Talk 2 me pls? 07:05, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose. This is not the way to address WP:ONEOTHER. There are better ways to achieve this outcome. WWGB ( talk) 06:38, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- @
WWGB: Could you explain? It looks like
WP:ONEOTHER says
If there are only two topics to which a given title might refer, and one is the primary topic, then a disambiguation page is not needed—it is sufficient to use a hatnote on the primary topic article, pointing to the other article.
. That appears to be what we are voting on here. We're setting up George Floyd to point to the primary topic, and presumably we would include a link to the secondary topic within the primary topic article. -- Elephanthunter ( talk) 06:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)- Why seek to delete the page and then immediately recreate it as a redirect? Why not just start an RfC on the talk page to turn the article into a redirect to
Death of George Floyd?
WWGB (
talk)
07:20, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- RFCs tend to take much longer than a week.
Bait30
Talk 2 me pls?
07:43, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- @ Bait30: One option would have been to just boldly changing this to a redirect; no real need to AfD delete its history. Still, if you weren't sure, then a discussion can't hurt.— Bagumba ( talk) 08:05, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- RFCs tend to take much longer than a week.
Bait30
Talk 2 me pls?
07:43, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Why seek to delete the page and then immediately recreate it as a redirect? Why not just start an RfC on the talk page to turn the article into a redirect to
Death of George Floyd?
WWGB (
talk)
07:20, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- @
WWGB: Could you explain? It looks like
WP:ONEOTHER says
- Strong Support Redirect - Seems clear that the George Floyd in Death of George Floyd is more widely known than the football player, and this is an important topic that people need access to without dealing with disambiguation pages. Google Trends shows interest in George Floyd the football player for the last 5 years was basically non-existent compared with the man recently died. -- Elephanthunter ( talk) 06:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Furthermore, I feel like this is a WP:SNOW and WP:DEADLINENOW situation. The other guy is relatively unknown with insignificant stats. But for this death, there is deployed military and active protests across the United States. People simply aren't looking for the football player. There is no reason bureaucracy should get in the way here. -- Elephanthunter ( talk) 14:38, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Comment No issue if the primary topic for George Floyd is a redirect to Death of George Floyd. However, there are a few WP:PARTIAL title matches handled by the dab's "see also". Anon0098 commented on partial titles at Talk:George_Floyd#Recent_Protests, and Paintspot attempted to add another partial title before. [1] No opinion currently if that is sufficient reason to keep but move the dab.— Bagumba ( talk) 09:19, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Redirect to
Death of George Floyd and add hatnote there to point to the sportsman; add appropriate items (those partial matches mentioned above) to the "See also" of that target page. Clear primary topic.
Pam
D
10:07, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- @ PamD: WP:PARTIAL only applies to "see also" of a dab page, not regular pages. If the partial matches were deemed meaningful, we would not want to force a reader to scroll all the way down to the "see also" of a non-dab (nor is it customary so that they would know to look there). Given the number of PTMs of "George Floyd", they would not fit in a hatnote either.— Bagumba ( talk) 11:39, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Delete and Move
Death of George Floyd to
George Floyd. Redirect not necessary, and notability is established for the subject to have an article. —
Locke Cole •
t •
c
10:32, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Per
WP:BIO1E, an individual notable for only a single event are usually covered and redirected to a page about that event. A rename, if necessary, should be done via an
WP:RM at
Death of George Floyd .—
Bagumba (
talk)
11:39, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- @ Bagumba: He is known for far more than one event... WP:IAR on the WP:RM bureaucracy idea. We can make that decision here, as this is technically still a discussion. — Locke Cole • t • c 17:39, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Per
WP:BIO1E, an individual notable for only a single event are usually covered and redirected to a page about that event. A rename, if necessary, should be done via an
WP:RM at
Death of George Floyd .—
Bagumba (
talk)
11:39, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- OpposeIf
George Floyd (American football) is notable than I do not think that the disambig should be removed, as it may well be what people will look for.
Slatersteven (
talk)
11:00, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- That's the job of a hatnote on the redirect target, either directly to George Floyd (American football) or, if there's another one out there without an article yet, to George Floyd (disambiguation). — Cryptic 11:09, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- As far as I am aware there is no policy that says a redirect has to be to more than two subjects. Slatersteven ( talk) 12:23, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- How on earth did this redirect attempt not stick? — Cryptic 11:09, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- @
Cryptic: Yeah, the article needs to be a redirect for now. This is a major issue with international attention. The football player is barely notable enough to warrant an article. --
Elephanthunter (
talk)
12:39, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- @ Elephanthunter: "barely notable enough to warrant an article"? You may not be a football fan. George Floyd was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame ===> clear and sustained notability. Cbl62 ( talk) 15:27, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Redirect per OP. We do not need a disambig. A hatnote is sufficient. --- C& C ( Coffeeandcrumbs) 14:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Redirect per Coffeeandcrumbs. Given that the death of George Floyd is the primary topic, I agree that a hatnote to the american football player should be done instead. OcelotCreeper ( talk) 15:23, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Snow immediate redirect: It's embarrassing for Wikipedia to have an unnecessary disambig page in the middle of an obviously notable crisis. -- Toughpigs ( talk) 17:39, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Speedy redirect to
Death of George Floyd instead with a hatnote leading to the American footballer on top of the target page. Even with all due consideration to
WP:BUTIDONTKNOWABOUTIT, the death of George Floyd is certainly much more notable than the American football player, thereby making it the
WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. --
letcreate123 (
talk)
18:25, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Also, as an added Comment, I wouldn't call this the right venue to propose a redirection in the nomination. The D in AfD is for Deletion, not Discussion. I would have voted Procedural close, but a lot of people have already put their two cents in. -- letcreate123 ( talk) 18:28, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Could someone please post a link to whatever discussion resulted in the page ending up being kept? -- Guy Macon ( talk) 02:19, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was WP:SNOW move dab to George Floyd (disambiguation) and redirect George Floyd to Death of George Floyd. No prejudice against the deletion of the dab page, but that can be done through non-snow discussion. -- JHunterJ ( talk) 18:30, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
George Floyd
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- George Floyd ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Unnecessary disambiguation. Death of George Floyd is clearly the primary topic. Per WP:ONEOTHER, "If there are only two topics to which a given title might refer, and one is the primary topic, then a disambiguation page is not needed". As a side note, George Floyd should probably instead redirect to Death of George Floyd. Bait30 Talk 2 me pls? 06:12, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Bait30 Talk 2 me pls? 06:12, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. Bait30 Talk 2 me pls? 06:12, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. Bait30 Talk 2 me pls? 06:12, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Disambiguations-related deletion discussions. Bait30 Talk 2 me pls? 06:12, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Minnesota-related deletion discussions. Bait30 Talk 2 me pls? 06:12, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- This might have made more sense at
Requested Moves than AfD. However, I agree with the nominator. Pageviews are trending extremely high (nearly 200,000 on May 28!) and it's incredibly clear that we have a
WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, as the article now at
George Floyd (American football) was in the single digits on pageviews in days prior to this incident. This makes sense to do without delay. Support nominator's proposal.
Raymie (
t •
c)
06:25, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- I was thinking of WP:RM at first, but (maybe because I’m tired) I couldn’t and still can’t wrap my head around how it would work through that process. Because I don’t want to move “Death of George Floyd” to “George Floyd” and I definitely didn’t want to move the content of the disambiguation page to the “Death of George Floyd” page. To me this was the easiest method, logistically speaking. Bait30 Talk 2 me pls? 07:05, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose. This is not the way to address WP:ONEOTHER. There are better ways to achieve this outcome. WWGB ( talk) 06:38, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- @
WWGB: Could you explain? It looks like
WP:ONEOTHER says
If there are only two topics to which a given title might refer, and one is the primary topic, then a disambiguation page is not needed—it is sufficient to use a hatnote on the primary topic article, pointing to the other article.
. That appears to be what we are voting on here. We're setting up George Floyd to point to the primary topic, and presumably we would include a link to the secondary topic within the primary topic article. -- Elephanthunter ( talk) 06:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)- Why seek to delete the page and then immediately recreate it as a redirect? Why not just start an RfC on the talk page to turn the article into a redirect to
Death of George Floyd?
WWGB (
talk)
07:20, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- RFCs tend to take much longer than a week.
Bait30
Talk 2 me pls?
07:43, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- @ Bait30: One option would have been to just boldly changing this to a redirect; no real need to AfD delete its history. Still, if you weren't sure, then a discussion can't hurt.— Bagumba ( talk) 08:05, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- RFCs tend to take much longer than a week.
Bait30
Talk 2 me pls?
07:43, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Why seek to delete the page and then immediately recreate it as a redirect? Why not just start an RfC on the talk page to turn the article into a redirect to
Death of George Floyd?
WWGB (
talk)
07:20, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- @
WWGB: Could you explain? It looks like
WP:ONEOTHER says
- Strong Support Redirect - Seems clear that the George Floyd in Death of George Floyd is more widely known than the football player, and this is an important topic that people need access to without dealing with disambiguation pages. Google Trends shows interest in George Floyd the football player for the last 5 years was basically non-existent compared with the man recently died. -- Elephanthunter ( talk) 06:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Furthermore, I feel like this is a WP:SNOW and WP:DEADLINENOW situation. The other guy is relatively unknown with insignificant stats. But for this death, there is deployed military and active protests across the United States. People simply aren't looking for the football player. There is no reason bureaucracy should get in the way here. -- Elephanthunter ( talk) 14:38, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Comment No issue if the primary topic for George Floyd is a redirect to Death of George Floyd. However, there are a few WP:PARTIAL title matches handled by the dab's "see also". Anon0098 commented on partial titles at Talk:George_Floyd#Recent_Protests, and Paintspot attempted to add another partial title before. [1] No opinion currently if that is sufficient reason to keep but move the dab.— Bagumba ( talk) 09:19, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Redirect to
Death of George Floyd and add hatnote there to point to the sportsman; add appropriate items (those partial matches mentioned above) to the "See also" of that target page. Clear primary topic.
Pam
D
10:07, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- @ PamD: WP:PARTIAL only applies to "see also" of a dab page, not regular pages. If the partial matches were deemed meaningful, we would not want to force a reader to scroll all the way down to the "see also" of a non-dab (nor is it customary so that they would know to look there). Given the number of PTMs of "George Floyd", they would not fit in a hatnote either.— Bagumba ( talk) 11:39, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Delete and Move
Death of George Floyd to
George Floyd. Redirect not necessary, and notability is established for the subject to have an article. —
Locke Cole •
t •
c
10:32, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Per
WP:BIO1E, an individual notable for only a single event are usually covered and redirected to a page about that event. A rename, if necessary, should be done via an
WP:RM at
Death of George Floyd .—
Bagumba (
talk)
11:39, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- @ Bagumba: He is known for far more than one event... WP:IAR on the WP:RM bureaucracy idea. We can make that decision here, as this is technically still a discussion. — Locke Cole • t • c 17:39, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Per
WP:BIO1E, an individual notable for only a single event are usually covered and redirected to a page about that event. A rename, if necessary, should be done via an
WP:RM at
Death of George Floyd .—
Bagumba (
talk)
11:39, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- OpposeIf
George Floyd (American football) is notable than I do not think that the disambig should be removed, as it may well be what people will look for.
Slatersteven (
talk)
11:00, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- That's the job of a hatnote on the redirect target, either directly to George Floyd (American football) or, if there's another one out there without an article yet, to George Floyd (disambiguation). — Cryptic 11:09, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- As far as I am aware there is no policy that says a redirect has to be to more than two subjects. Slatersteven ( talk) 12:23, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- How on earth did this redirect attempt not stick? — Cryptic 11:09, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- @
Cryptic: Yeah, the article needs to be a redirect for now. This is a major issue with international attention. The football player is barely notable enough to warrant an article. --
Elephanthunter (
talk)
12:39, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- @ Elephanthunter: "barely notable enough to warrant an article"? You may not be a football fan. George Floyd was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame ===> clear and sustained notability. Cbl62 ( talk) 15:27, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Redirect per OP. We do not need a disambig. A hatnote is sufficient. --- C& C ( Coffeeandcrumbs) 14:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Redirect per Coffeeandcrumbs. Given that the death of George Floyd is the primary topic, I agree that a hatnote to the american football player should be done instead. OcelotCreeper ( talk) 15:23, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Snow immediate redirect: It's embarrassing for Wikipedia to have an unnecessary disambig page in the middle of an obviously notable crisis. -- Toughpigs ( talk) 17:39, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Speedy redirect to
Death of George Floyd instead with a hatnote leading to the American footballer on top of the target page. Even with all due consideration to
WP:BUTIDONTKNOWABOUTIT, the death of George Floyd is certainly much more notable than the American football player, thereby making it the
WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. --
letcreate123 (
talk)
18:25, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- Also, as an added Comment, I wouldn't call this the right venue to propose a redirection in the nomination. The D in AfD is for Deletion, not Discussion. I would have voted Procedural close, but a lot of people have already put their two cents in. -- letcreate123 ( talk) 18:28, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
- The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Could someone please post a link to whatever discussion resulted in the page ending up being kept? -- Guy Macon ( talk) 02:19, 13 December 2020 (UTC)