- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was redirect to Asia featuring John Payne. Sandstein 09:09, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
Extended Versions (Asia album)
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- Extended Versions (Asia album) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Contested PROD. This is not a notable recording. There is an AllMusic entry, but it did not chart and other than fan-zine entries, I can't find any write-ups about it. I suspect that my quick Google search may be missing some entries from good sources. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 14:27, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 14:27, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. Ceethekreator ( talk) 15:34, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
- Redirect to Asia featuring John Payne as preferred WP:ATD ~ Kvng ( talk) 16:24, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
- Obvious Redirect if not notable - how would this ever be a delete?
Nfitz (
talk) 02:02, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
- Not really an obvious redirect. It's not a likely search term as it has the disambiguator in the title. It's more likely to be found by hitting Extended Versions. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 03:01, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
- Delete since subject fails WP:NALBUM. And Walter Görlitz is obviously correct about trying to fashion a redirect out of this. - The Gnome ( talk) 13:41, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
- What exactly is the issue with redirecting this to
Asia featuring John Payne? The unlikely search term rationale does not seem hold water. What am I missing? ~
Kvng (
talk) 01:36, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
- I suspect that if a reader wants to find the album, they will likely search for "Extended Versions", not "Extended Versions (Asia album)", right? Even if you don't, if you use the search field, it will auto-complete for you and when you see that there is an Extended Versions entry, you might want to try your luck. If you find an entry on that dab page, you'll go there rather than try your luck with a second search. What doesn't hold water for me is that someone is actually going to try to do a full search for "Extended Versions (Asia album)". That's just improbable when other options present themselves earlier. All links from articles related to John Payne's Asia should either not link anywhere or should link to the section in the article where it's discussed. If there are no links, and someone adds a link, do you really think their first thought is going to be to try to link it to "Extended Versions (Asia album)"? Again, I suspect that most new editors will try to link to "Extended Versions". If they're not diligent, they'll get a warning from the bot that tells editors that they just created a link to a DAB. If they do have a link to Extended Versions (Asia album), in my scenario, they'll have a redlink and will have to fix that (which will present a warning). If we leave a redirect, it will look like a valid, blue link, and they may not go further to investigate. So, a full delete seems like a win all around, unless you can show actual search metrics from Wikipedia that shows people are actually searching for "Extended Versions (Asia album)".
Walter Görlitz (
talk) 01:51, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
- TL;DR. No disrespect intended but if you have to use that many words to overcome
WP:CHEAP you have clearly not succeeded. Did you try to Google "Asia extended versions" or try type "extended versions" into the wikipedia search box? If you're looking for the Asia version of this album, both lead you pretty directly to this title. ~
Kvng (
talk) 15:40, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
- If you can only rely on CHEAP your logic is flawed and you have not succeeded. I have no problems with creating a redirect at
Asia Extended Versions, because that is a logical search term.
Walter Görlitz (
talk) 16:15, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
- Can you give a short explanation of why you think an
Extended Versions (Asia album) redirect is bad? Thanks for your patience. ~
Kvng (
talk) 17:59, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
- No reasonable individual will type that in as a search term.
Walter Görlitz (
talk) 18:07, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
- I have already answered this and we're not listening to each other so I'm about done - But they will type "Extended Versions" and the Wikipedia search box will list, as they type, "Extended Versions (Asia album)" as an option (along with all the other "Extended Versions (artist name here)" options) and they will see that and click it. A similar thing happens using Google. ~
Kvng (
talk) 14:13, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
- Really? I'm listening and responding to you. The first term is "Extended Versions". When this particular redirect doesn't show up in the lists of searches, the DAB will be enough. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 05:09, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
- I have already answered this and we're not listening to each other so I'm about done - But they will type "Extended Versions" and the Wikipedia search box will list, as they type, "Extended Versions (Asia album)" as an option (along with all the other "Extended Versions (artist name here)" options) and they will see that and click it. A similar thing happens using Google. ~
Kvng (
talk) 14:13, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
- No reasonable individual will type that in as a search term.
Walter Görlitz (
talk) 18:07, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
- Can you give a short explanation of why you think an
Extended Versions (Asia album) redirect is bad? Thanks for your patience. ~
Kvng (
talk) 17:59, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
- If you can only rely on CHEAP your logic is flawed and you have not succeeded. I have no problems with creating a redirect at
Asia Extended Versions, because that is a logical search term.
Walter Görlitz (
talk) 16:15, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
- TL;DR. No disrespect intended but if you have to use that many words to overcome
WP:CHEAP you have clearly not succeeded. Did you try to Google "Asia extended versions" or try type "extended versions" into the wikipedia search box? If you're looking for the Asia version of this album, both lead you pretty directly to this title. ~
Kvng (
talk) 15:40, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
- I suspect that if a reader wants to find the album, they will likely search for "Extended Versions", not "Extended Versions (Asia album)", right? Even if you don't, if you use the search field, it will auto-complete for you and when you see that there is an Extended Versions entry, you might want to try your luck. If you find an entry on that dab page, you'll go there rather than try your luck with a second search. What doesn't hold water for me is that someone is actually going to try to do a full search for "Extended Versions (Asia album)". That's just improbable when other options present themselves earlier. All links from articles related to John Payne's Asia should either not link anywhere or should link to the section in the article where it's discussed. If there are no links, and someone adds a link, do you really think their first thought is going to be to try to link it to "Extended Versions (Asia album)"? Again, I suspect that most new editors will try to link to "Extended Versions". If they're not diligent, they'll get a warning from the bot that tells editors that they just created a link to a DAB. If they do have a link to Extended Versions (Asia album), in my scenario, they'll have a redlink and will have to fix that (which will present a warning). If we leave a redirect, it will look like a valid, blue link, and they may not go further to investigate. So, a full delete seems like a win all around, unless you can show actual search metrics from Wikipedia that shows people are actually searching for "Extended Versions (Asia album)".
Walter Görlitz (
talk) 01:51, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
- What exactly is the issue with redirecting this to
Asia featuring John Payne? The unlikely search term rationale does not seem hold water. What am I missing? ~
Kvng (
talk) 01:36, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 18:12, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 18:12, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
- Redirect - An inexperienced Wikipedia would likely not use the disambiguator, but experienced Wikipedia users may well know to use a disambiguator for a search term like this. I certainly have done so in similar situations, so I can see the redirect having value. Rlendog ( talk) 19:00, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
- Redirect - Even if only a very small number of people find the redirect useful, that's enough reason for it to exist (see WP:R#KEEP no 5) and I see no particular reason to delete it. It's not controversial, non-neutral or likely to cause confusion. Hugsyrup ( talk) 13:42, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was redirect to Asia featuring John Payne. Sandstein 09:09, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
Extended Versions (Asia album)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Extended Versions (Asia album) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Contested PROD. This is not a notable recording. There is an AllMusic entry, but it did not chart and other than fan-zine entries, I can't find any write-ups about it. I suspect that my quick Google search may be missing some entries from good sources. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 14:27, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 14:27, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. Ceethekreator ( talk) 15:34, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
- Redirect to Asia featuring John Payne as preferred WP:ATD ~ Kvng ( talk) 16:24, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
- Obvious Redirect if not notable - how would this ever be a delete?
Nfitz (
talk) 02:02, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
- Not really an obvious redirect. It's not a likely search term as it has the disambiguator in the title. It's more likely to be found by hitting Extended Versions. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 03:01, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
- Delete since subject fails WP:NALBUM. And Walter Görlitz is obviously correct about trying to fashion a redirect out of this. - The Gnome ( talk) 13:41, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
- What exactly is the issue with redirecting this to
Asia featuring John Payne? The unlikely search term rationale does not seem hold water. What am I missing? ~
Kvng (
talk) 01:36, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
- I suspect that if a reader wants to find the album, they will likely search for "Extended Versions", not "Extended Versions (Asia album)", right? Even if you don't, if you use the search field, it will auto-complete for you and when you see that there is an Extended Versions entry, you might want to try your luck. If you find an entry on that dab page, you'll go there rather than try your luck with a second search. What doesn't hold water for me is that someone is actually going to try to do a full search for "Extended Versions (Asia album)". That's just improbable when other options present themselves earlier. All links from articles related to John Payne's Asia should either not link anywhere or should link to the section in the article where it's discussed. If there are no links, and someone adds a link, do you really think their first thought is going to be to try to link it to "Extended Versions (Asia album)"? Again, I suspect that most new editors will try to link to "Extended Versions". If they're not diligent, they'll get a warning from the bot that tells editors that they just created a link to a DAB. If they do have a link to Extended Versions (Asia album), in my scenario, they'll have a redlink and will have to fix that (which will present a warning). If we leave a redirect, it will look like a valid, blue link, and they may not go further to investigate. So, a full delete seems like a win all around, unless you can show actual search metrics from Wikipedia that shows people are actually searching for "Extended Versions (Asia album)".
Walter Görlitz (
talk) 01:51, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
- TL;DR. No disrespect intended but if you have to use that many words to overcome
WP:CHEAP you have clearly not succeeded. Did you try to Google "Asia extended versions" or try type "extended versions" into the wikipedia search box? If you're looking for the Asia version of this album, both lead you pretty directly to this title. ~
Kvng (
talk) 15:40, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
- If you can only rely on CHEAP your logic is flawed and you have not succeeded. I have no problems with creating a redirect at
Asia Extended Versions, because that is a logical search term.
Walter Görlitz (
talk) 16:15, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
- Can you give a short explanation of why you think an
Extended Versions (Asia album) redirect is bad? Thanks for your patience. ~
Kvng (
talk) 17:59, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
- No reasonable individual will type that in as a search term.
Walter Görlitz (
talk) 18:07, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
- I have already answered this and we're not listening to each other so I'm about done - But they will type "Extended Versions" and the Wikipedia search box will list, as they type, "Extended Versions (Asia album)" as an option (along with all the other "Extended Versions (artist name here)" options) and they will see that and click it. A similar thing happens using Google. ~
Kvng (
talk) 14:13, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
- Really? I'm listening and responding to you. The first term is "Extended Versions". When this particular redirect doesn't show up in the lists of searches, the DAB will be enough. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 05:09, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
- I have already answered this and we're not listening to each other so I'm about done - But they will type "Extended Versions" and the Wikipedia search box will list, as they type, "Extended Versions (Asia album)" as an option (along with all the other "Extended Versions (artist name here)" options) and they will see that and click it. A similar thing happens using Google. ~
Kvng (
talk) 14:13, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
- No reasonable individual will type that in as a search term.
Walter Görlitz (
talk) 18:07, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
- Can you give a short explanation of why you think an
Extended Versions (Asia album) redirect is bad? Thanks for your patience. ~
Kvng (
talk) 17:59, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
- If you can only rely on CHEAP your logic is flawed and you have not succeeded. I have no problems with creating a redirect at
Asia Extended Versions, because that is a logical search term.
Walter Görlitz (
talk) 16:15, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
- TL;DR. No disrespect intended but if you have to use that many words to overcome
WP:CHEAP you have clearly not succeeded. Did you try to Google "Asia extended versions" or try type "extended versions" into the wikipedia search box? If you're looking for the Asia version of this album, both lead you pretty directly to this title. ~
Kvng (
talk) 15:40, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
- I suspect that if a reader wants to find the album, they will likely search for "Extended Versions", not "Extended Versions (Asia album)", right? Even if you don't, if you use the search field, it will auto-complete for you and when you see that there is an Extended Versions entry, you might want to try your luck. If you find an entry on that dab page, you'll go there rather than try your luck with a second search. What doesn't hold water for me is that someone is actually going to try to do a full search for "Extended Versions (Asia album)". That's just improbable when other options present themselves earlier. All links from articles related to John Payne's Asia should either not link anywhere or should link to the section in the article where it's discussed. If there are no links, and someone adds a link, do you really think their first thought is going to be to try to link it to "Extended Versions (Asia album)"? Again, I suspect that most new editors will try to link to "Extended Versions". If they're not diligent, they'll get a warning from the bot that tells editors that they just created a link to a DAB. If they do have a link to Extended Versions (Asia album), in my scenario, they'll have a redlink and will have to fix that (which will present a warning). If we leave a redirect, it will look like a valid, blue link, and they may not go further to investigate. So, a full delete seems like a win all around, unless you can show actual search metrics from Wikipedia that shows people are actually searching for "Extended Versions (Asia album)".
Walter Görlitz (
talk) 01:51, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
- What exactly is the issue with redirecting this to
Asia featuring John Payne? The unlikely search term rationale does not seem hold water. What am I missing? ~
Kvng (
talk) 01:36, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 18:12, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 18:12, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
- Redirect - An inexperienced Wikipedia would likely not use the disambiguator, but experienced Wikipedia users may well know to use a disambiguator for a search term like this. I certainly have done so in similar situations, so I can see the redirect having value. Rlendog ( talk) 19:00, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
- Redirect - Even if only a very small number of people find the redirect useful, that's enough reason for it to exist (see WP:R#KEEP no 5) and I see no particular reason to delete it. It's not controversial, non-neutral or likely to cause confusion. Hugsyrup ( talk) 13:42, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.