- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was Delete. Michig ( talk) 19:28, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
- Eleonora Rossin ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Contested prod. Despite a concerted effort, and asking a number of experienced editors who are good at article rescue, I am completely unable to find any reliable and independent sources for this person whatsoever. The one source I added from Google News is actually a press release, and the book Oltre l'arcobaleno appears to be self-published. A shame as it superficially looks like a notable topic, but our verifiability policy cannot be ignored. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:34, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. MT Train Talk 10:51, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Italy-related deletion discussions. MT Train Talk 10:51, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. L3X1 ◊distænt write◊ 13:45, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. L3X1 ◊distænt write◊ 13:45, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
Keep: At least two of the Italian sources referenced in the article cover her in some detail.-- Ipigott ( talk) 15:11, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
- They're press releases. Sorry.
Ritchie333
(talk)
(cont) 15:18, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
- Ipigott are there any Italian sources? I wasn't able to turn up much of anything in English. :( Megalibrarygirl ( talk) 20:15, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
- They're press releases. Sorry.
Ritchie333
(talk)
(cont) 15:18, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
- Delete: After reading the article's talk page, I've changed my keep to delete. The article seems to be bogus.-- Ipigott ( talk) 13:15, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
- Delete per the above - fails N and appears to be more of an efforts to promote her Galobtter ( pingó mió) 13:19, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
- Delete. I couldn't find adequate verifiable sources in English, Italian or French. Also, someone machine translated this from another language, which was also the reason why the article was deleted in French Wikipedia ("Usage d'un traducteur automatique: Passez par votre brouillon"). There seems never to have been an article in Italian wikipedia, so chances are it's a machine translation of a WP:COPYVIO from elsewhere. Not sure what the legal status is on such translations. Fiachra10003 ( talk) 00:27, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
- Delete. Sinopoli didn't conduct that piece that year, - just one example. -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 09:05, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
- Delete Comprehensively fails GNG as well as the alternative criteria for composers, authors and music performers. Note that a user on Italian Wikipedia with the same name as the subject created the article "Eleonora rossin" three times in 2009. It was deleted all three times [1] — the first two as "blatantly promotional", the final time as "test page, nonsense, or stupidities". It was created a 4th time on Italian Wikipedia as "Eleonora Maria Rossin" by the same person who created the article under discussion here and likewise deleted as blatantly promotional [2]. She may have been in something performed in the La Fenice theatre, but certainly not for the opera company. She does not appear anywhere in the La Fenice Archives. If she did appear with Valentini Terrani in The Grand Duchess of Gerolstein at the Festival della Valle d'Itria in 1996, it must have been in an incredibly minor role. Observe [3] nor is she listed on the Dynamic recording which lists the full cast. Two of the "references" were deceptively, and I am tempted to say intentionally, misleading. I have corrected them. There is no such publication as NewsSpettacoliEventi. The page is actually notiziabile.it. There is a respected publication, Giornale della Musica, but the site linked in the ref is actually notizie-news.it. Like notiziabile.it, it is basically a PR platform. Voceditenore ( talk) 15:03, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
- Delete unless verifiable references can be added. Hmlarson ( talk) 19:01, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
- Delete: article full of bogus information-- Jeanambr ( talk) 21:44, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
- Comment. This article is so full of patently false information that it borders on being a hoax. Here are just a few examples (some of which have been subsequently corrected or removed by me):
- Claim: appears on the recording "Pietro Mascagni: Cavalleria Rusticana , with Claudio Abbado, 2000" - There is no such recording
- Claim: "In 1997, Rossin made her debut appearance at the La Fenice in Venice in the role of Maddalena in Rigoletto." – La Fenice burned down in 1996 and did not re-open until 2003. She is mentioned nowhere in the La Fenice archives under any date. According to the La Fenice archives, Sinopoli never conducted Rigoletto there
- Claim: "She published in 2014 for Feltrinelli Italian Edition the book titled La musicoterapia nelle mente e nel corpo" – patently false. It was self-published using ilmiolibro.it. Feltrinelli merely listed it on their book-selling site where they specifically state the publisher as "ilmiolibro self publishing" [4]
- Claim: "Rossin is the niece of Giuseppe Sinopoli and Lucia Valentini Terrani" – zero evidence of this apart from her own claims [5] and information added to the Italian and English Wikipedia articles on Valentini Terrani by two accounts closely associated with this article, e.g. [6], [7] [8]
- Claim: "Rossin has performed at the Vienna State Opera, Chicago Lyric Opera, Fujiwara Opera of Tokyo, Kennedy Center of Washington and the 2005 Aix-en-Provence Festival, in the role of Santuzza in Cavalleria Rusticana, conducted by Giuseppe Sinopoli" – the Cavelleria Rusticana claim is patently false. It was not performed at the 2005 Aix-en-Provence Festival at all and there is zero evidence for Rossin having performed in any of the other opera venues mentioned.
- Claim: "she made her debut with Lucia Valentini Terrani in Offenbach's The Grand Duchess of Gerolstein at the 'Festival della Valle d'Itria' at Martina Franca" – almost certainly false; she is listed nowhere in the cast for the live recording [9]
- A further example of the nonsense... In the article "Enzo Ganassi" is listed as the conductor for two of her videos. However on the videos she posts and her website this person is listed variously as "Renzo Grassi" [10] or "Renzo Degrassi" [11]. I can find no evidence of the existence of either a conductor or a director by any of those three names.
- Yet more nonsense... "she began composing for Japanese cinedma [sic], and has been the only female composer for the music of Anime giapu Seraphim Prologue of Mamoru Oshii, with the nickname Burondo sakkyokka". Seraphim Prologue is a book of manga, not a film with a soundtrack. Moreover, one of the accounts associated with this article added that spurious "information" to Mamoru Oshii [12]. Meanwhile, the IP 93.36.166.58 which geolocates to Turin where the subject has a music school, added yet more spurious information to Mamoru Oshii filmography [13] (there is no mention whatsoever of her on IMDB for the two other films to which she had been added as "composer"). The IP also added completely spurious claims to Rossin being the niece of Anna Moffo to the Italian and English Wikipedias [14] and here [15] as did this article's creator [16].
- In short, nothing in this article can be trusted. Given that, and the multiple attempts at recreation on the the Italian Wikipedia, I highly recommend salting both under this title and under Eleonora Maria Rossin. Voceditenore ( talk) 10:37, 12 March 2018 (UTC) Updated by Voceditenore ( talk) 14:45, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
- Delete, I usually tend to try and save an article, but in this case, I did not find any reliable source and reading those available, I had the feeling they were self-promotion. Elisa.rolle ( talk) 09:28, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was Delete. Michig ( talk) 19:28, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
- Eleonora Rossin ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Contested prod. Despite a concerted effort, and asking a number of experienced editors who are good at article rescue, I am completely unable to find any reliable and independent sources for this person whatsoever. The one source I added from Google News is actually a press release, and the book Oltre l'arcobaleno appears to be self-published. A shame as it superficially looks like a notable topic, but our verifiability policy cannot be ignored. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:34, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. MT Train Talk 10:51, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Italy-related deletion discussions. MT Train Talk 10:51, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. L3X1 ◊distænt write◊ 13:45, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. L3X1 ◊distænt write◊ 13:45, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
Keep: At least two of the Italian sources referenced in the article cover her in some detail.-- Ipigott ( talk) 15:11, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
- They're press releases. Sorry.
Ritchie333
(talk)
(cont) 15:18, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
- Ipigott are there any Italian sources? I wasn't able to turn up much of anything in English. :( Megalibrarygirl ( talk) 20:15, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
- They're press releases. Sorry.
Ritchie333
(talk)
(cont) 15:18, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
- Delete: After reading the article's talk page, I've changed my keep to delete. The article seems to be bogus.-- Ipigott ( talk) 13:15, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
- Delete per the above - fails N and appears to be more of an efforts to promote her Galobtter ( pingó mió) 13:19, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
- Delete. I couldn't find adequate verifiable sources in English, Italian or French. Also, someone machine translated this from another language, which was also the reason why the article was deleted in French Wikipedia ("Usage d'un traducteur automatique: Passez par votre brouillon"). There seems never to have been an article in Italian wikipedia, so chances are it's a machine translation of a WP:COPYVIO from elsewhere. Not sure what the legal status is on such translations. Fiachra10003 ( talk) 00:27, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
- Delete. Sinopoli didn't conduct that piece that year, - just one example. -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 09:05, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
- Delete Comprehensively fails GNG as well as the alternative criteria for composers, authors and music performers. Note that a user on Italian Wikipedia with the same name as the subject created the article "Eleonora rossin" three times in 2009. It was deleted all three times [1] — the first two as "blatantly promotional", the final time as "test page, nonsense, or stupidities". It was created a 4th time on Italian Wikipedia as "Eleonora Maria Rossin" by the same person who created the article under discussion here and likewise deleted as blatantly promotional [2]. She may have been in something performed in the La Fenice theatre, but certainly not for the opera company. She does not appear anywhere in the La Fenice Archives. If she did appear with Valentini Terrani in The Grand Duchess of Gerolstein at the Festival della Valle d'Itria in 1996, it must have been in an incredibly minor role. Observe [3] nor is she listed on the Dynamic recording which lists the full cast. Two of the "references" were deceptively, and I am tempted to say intentionally, misleading. I have corrected them. There is no such publication as NewsSpettacoliEventi. The page is actually notiziabile.it. There is a respected publication, Giornale della Musica, but the site linked in the ref is actually notizie-news.it. Like notiziabile.it, it is basically a PR platform. Voceditenore ( talk) 15:03, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
- Delete unless verifiable references can be added. Hmlarson ( talk) 19:01, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
- Delete: article full of bogus information-- Jeanambr ( talk) 21:44, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
- Comment. This article is so full of patently false information that it borders on being a hoax. Here are just a few examples (some of which have been subsequently corrected or removed by me):
- Claim: appears on the recording "Pietro Mascagni: Cavalleria Rusticana , with Claudio Abbado, 2000" - There is no such recording
- Claim: "In 1997, Rossin made her debut appearance at the La Fenice in Venice in the role of Maddalena in Rigoletto." – La Fenice burned down in 1996 and did not re-open until 2003. She is mentioned nowhere in the La Fenice archives under any date. According to the La Fenice archives, Sinopoli never conducted Rigoletto there
- Claim: "She published in 2014 for Feltrinelli Italian Edition the book titled La musicoterapia nelle mente e nel corpo" – patently false. It was self-published using ilmiolibro.it. Feltrinelli merely listed it on their book-selling site where they specifically state the publisher as "ilmiolibro self publishing" [4]
- Claim: "Rossin is the niece of Giuseppe Sinopoli and Lucia Valentini Terrani" – zero evidence of this apart from her own claims [5] and information added to the Italian and English Wikipedia articles on Valentini Terrani by two accounts closely associated with this article, e.g. [6], [7] [8]
- Claim: "Rossin has performed at the Vienna State Opera, Chicago Lyric Opera, Fujiwara Opera of Tokyo, Kennedy Center of Washington and the 2005 Aix-en-Provence Festival, in the role of Santuzza in Cavalleria Rusticana, conducted by Giuseppe Sinopoli" – the Cavelleria Rusticana claim is patently false. It was not performed at the 2005 Aix-en-Provence Festival at all and there is zero evidence for Rossin having performed in any of the other opera venues mentioned.
- Claim: "she made her debut with Lucia Valentini Terrani in Offenbach's The Grand Duchess of Gerolstein at the 'Festival della Valle d'Itria' at Martina Franca" – almost certainly false; she is listed nowhere in the cast for the live recording [9]
- A further example of the nonsense... In the article "Enzo Ganassi" is listed as the conductor for two of her videos. However on the videos she posts and her website this person is listed variously as "Renzo Grassi" [10] or "Renzo Degrassi" [11]. I can find no evidence of the existence of either a conductor or a director by any of those three names.
- Yet more nonsense... "she began composing for Japanese cinedma [sic], and has been the only female composer for the music of Anime giapu Seraphim Prologue of Mamoru Oshii, with the nickname Burondo sakkyokka". Seraphim Prologue is a book of manga, not a film with a soundtrack. Moreover, one of the accounts associated with this article added that spurious "information" to Mamoru Oshii [12]. Meanwhile, the IP 93.36.166.58 which geolocates to Turin where the subject has a music school, added yet more spurious information to Mamoru Oshii filmography [13] (there is no mention whatsoever of her on IMDB for the two other films to which she had been added as "composer"). The IP also added completely spurious claims to Rossin being the niece of Anna Moffo to the Italian and English Wikipedias [14] and here [15] as did this article's creator [16].
- In short, nothing in this article can be trusted. Given that, and the multiple attempts at recreation on the the Italian Wikipedia, I highly recommend salting both under this title and under Eleonora Maria Rossin. Voceditenore ( talk) 10:37, 12 March 2018 (UTC) Updated by Voceditenore ( talk) 14:45, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
- Delete, I usually tend to try and save an article, but in this case, I did not find any reliable source and reading those available, I had the feeling they were self-promotion. Elisa.rolle ( talk) 09:28, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.