- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was redirect to List of players who appeared in only one game in the NFL (1920–1929)#1923. Just a note that converting an article to a redirect does not "get rid" of an article. On the contrary, the article is preserved in the page history. If reliable sources are ever confirmed to exist, this article subject can be revisited. This is a much different situation than if editors here had advocated for deletion of this article where the content would be much more challenging to recover later. Liz Read! Talk! 02:34, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
Ed Rate
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- Ed Rate ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails WP:GNG and prong 5 of WP:SPORTBASIC. Article has for 11 years remained as a sub-stub unsupported by any SIGCOV, and my searches failed to find any. (I tried redirecting to List of players who appeared in only one game in the NFL (1920–1929)#1923, but the redirect was reverted by User:BeanieFan11. A redirect remains a reasonable alternative to deletion IMO.) Cbl62 ( talk) 02:38, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
- Redirect per nom. We've gone over this extensively for over a year now; SIGCOV is required for sports articles, and simple participation has been deprecated. If User:BeanieFan11 is unprepared to do the work to properly source the articles, he does not now get to unilaterally decide to defy consensus-based notability standards. Either put up or shut up. Ravenswing 03:50, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. North America 1000 04:56, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: American football and Ohio. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 09:51, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
- Keep. I find it highly likely that this topic meets GNG with hard-to-access sources. Rate played in the NFL, was
team captain at Purdue (one of the top cfb teams in the country), and I'm almost certain he has a SIGCOV biography in the book The Badgers: Milwaukee's NFL Entry of 1922-1926. What makes it extremely difficult to find sources is the fact that newspapers of that period often discussed players just by their last name, and his last name is an extremely common word.
BeanieFan11 (
talk)
20:29, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
- Wishful thinking is not good enough, nor are excuses to mask why reliable sources have not been proffered. You should be well aware of the provisions of WP:V by now: speculation doesn't count. Ravenswing 05:20, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
- This link says he was captain of the Third Team, not captain of Purdue. 1920 Purdue Boilermakers football team says F. J. Birk was the team captain. With a losing record Purdue was not one of the top teams in the country then! Reywas92 Talk 16:50, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
- Redirect until sources are found and added per SPORTBASIC. The assertion that significant coverage is likely to exist is insufficient to establish notability anywhere on enwiki, and that goes double for sports biographies which must actually include SIGCOV sourcing in the article. –
dlthewave
☎
04:26, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
- Ah, I see, so when we know SIGCOV exists we just don't have hours of time to search and $40 to spend we just say "oh well" and get rid of the article. Makes sense.
BeanieFan11 (
talk)
15:28, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
- Well, that's what the community has decided the guideline should be. – dlthewave ☎ 18:29, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
- Pardon me, do I have this correctly? You're actually raising as a source bolstering the subject's notability a book you have not seen? This absolutely is wishful thinking on your part; you don't "know" that there's SIGCOV at all. At this stage, how do you expect us -- or the closing admin -- to place any credit in any assertion you make? Ravenswing 23:55, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
- Ah, I see, so when we know SIGCOV exists we just don't have hours of time to search and $40 to spend we just say "oh well" and get rid of the article. Makes sense.
BeanieFan11 (
talk)
15:28, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
- Redirect The guy played in just one game for the Badgers, why should we assume this book has significant coverage of him? "when we know SIGCOV exists" is conjecture, not fact. Even then, it's clear that you need multiple significant sources, not one.
List_of_players_who_appeared_in_only_one_game_in_the_NFL_(1920–1929)#1923 adequately states known and relevant information.
Reywas92
Talk
16:54, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
The guy played in just one game for the Badgers, why should we assume this book has significant coverage of him?
Those types of books have biographies of all players, even ones who played a single game. BeanieFan11 ( talk) 16:56, 23 November 2022 (UTC)- "Those types of books?" So you haven't seen it at all? Profiling all the players isn't the same as certainly having significant biographical coverage of the guy who took the field once. I'm confused why you think this project is based on guesswork rather than actual verifiability. Reywas92 Talk 17:06, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
- Redirect until SIGCOV can be found, Alvaldi ( talk) 20:30, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
- Redirect per above. Therapyisgood ( talk) 20:08, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was redirect to List of players who appeared in only one game in the NFL (1920–1929)#1923. Just a note that converting an article to a redirect does not "get rid" of an article. On the contrary, the article is preserved in the page history. If reliable sources are ever confirmed to exist, this article subject can be revisited. This is a much different situation than if editors here had advocated for deletion of this article where the content would be much more challenging to recover later. Liz Read! Talk! 02:34, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
Ed Rate
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Ed Rate ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails WP:GNG and prong 5 of WP:SPORTBASIC. Article has for 11 years remained as a sub-stub unsupported by any SIGCOV, and my searches failed to find any. (I tried redirecting to List of players who appeared in only one game in the NFL (1920–1929)#1923, but the redirect was reverted by User:BeanieFan11. A redirect remains a reasonable alternative to deletion IMO.) Cbl62 ( talk) 02:38, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
- Redirect per nom. We've gone over this extensively for over a year now; SIGCOV is required for sports articles, and simple participation has been deprecated. If User:BeanieFan11 is unprepared to do the work to properly source the articles, he does not now get to unilaterally decide to defy consensus-based notability standards. Either put up or shut up. Ravenswing 03:50, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. North America 1000 04:56, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: American football and Ohio. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 09:51, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
- Keep. I find it highly likely that this topic meets GNG with hard-to-access sources. Rate played in the NFL, was
team captain at Purdue (one of the top cfb teams in the country), and I'm almost certain he has a SIGCOV biography in the book The Badgers: Milwaukee's NFL Entry of 1922-1926. What makes it extremely difficult to find sources is the fact that newspapers of that period often discussed players just by their last name, and his last name is an extremely common word.
BeanieFan11 (
talk)
20:29, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
- Wishful thinking is not good enough, nor are excuses to mask why reliable sources have not been proffered. You should be well aware of the provisions of WP:V by now: speculation doesn't count. Ravenswing 05:20, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
- This link says he was captain of the Third Team, not captain of Purdue. 1920 Purdue Boilermakers football team says F. J. Birk was the team captain. With a losing record Purdue was not one of the top teams in the country then! Reywas92 Talk 16:50, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
- Redirect until sources are found and added per SPORTBASIC. The assertion that significant coverage is likely to exist is insufficient to establish notability anywhere on enwiki, and that goes double for sports biographies which must actually include SIGCOV sourcing in the article. –
dlthewave
☎
04:26, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
- Ah, I see, so when we know SIGCOV exists we just don't have hours of time to search and $40 to spend we just say "oh well" and get rid of the article. Makes sense.
BeanieFan11 (
talk)
15:28, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
- Well, that's what the community has decided the guideline should be. – dlthewave ☎ 18:29, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
- Pardon me, do I have this correctly? You're actually raising as a source bolstering the subject's notability a book you have not seen? This absolutely is wishful thinking on your part; you don't "know" that there's SIGCOV at all. At this stage, how do you expect us -- or the closing admin -- to place any credit in any assertion you make? Ravenswing 23:55, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
- Ah, I see, so when we know SIGCOV exists we just don't have hours of time to search and $40 to spend we just say "oh well" and get rid of the article. Makes sense.
BeanieFan11 (
talk)
15:28, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
- Redirect The guy played in just one game for the Badgers, why should we assume this book has significant coverage of him? "when we know SIGCOV exists" is conjecture, not fact. Even then, it's clear that you need multiple significant sources, not one.
List_of_players_who_appeared_in_only_one_game_in_the_NFL_(1920–1929)#1923 adequately states known and relevant information.
Reywas92
Talk
16:54, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
The guy played in just one game for the Badgers, why should we assume this book has significant coverage of him?
Those types of books have biographies of all players, even ones who played a single game. BeanieFan11 ( talk) 16:56, 23 November 2022 (UTC)- "Those types of books?" So you haven't seen it at all? Profiling all the players isn't the same as certainly having significant biographical coverage of the guy who took the field once. I'm confused why you think this project is based on guesswork rather than actual verifiability. Reywas92 Talk 17:06, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
- Redirect until SIGCOV can be found, Alvaldi ( talk) 20:30, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
- Redirect per above. Therapyisgood ( talk) 20:08, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.