- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was speedy keep. Additionally, the non-neutral post at WT:NSPORTS was a case of WP:CANVAS. — Bagumba ( talk) 04:17, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
Diana Soto
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- Diana Soto ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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This article has one source, a directory. A biography requires sufficient non-trivial reliable independent sources to ensure neutrality. I cannot find any biographical sources about this subject. Rather than individual sub-stubs it would make more sense to merge these articles to a team or event article. Guy ( Help!) 00:15, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log ( step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2019 February 13. — cyberbot I Talk to my owner:Online 00:36, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. ~Ruyaba~ {talk} 01:41, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Peru-related deletion discussions. ~Ruyaba~ {talk} 01:41, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. ~Ruyaba~ {talk} 01:42, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. ~Ruyaba~ {talk} 01:42, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- Keep per WP:NOLY - competed at the Olympics. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 04:36, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- And she's also played for the Peruvian team at the Pan-American Games, some coverage of her here and here, and this states she has captained the national side too. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 05:06, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- Keep: she's competed in the Olympics, she gets an article - unless and until the Wikipedia rules change. Pam D 09:45, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- ALso known as
Patricia Soto and
Diana Patricia Soto - see
incoming links via redirects.
Pam
D
10:43, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- I think you are mistaking rules (i.e. policy) for subject-specific notability guidelines, which basically say that people who have competed int he Olympics are likely to have enough sources to have an article. A "rule" that being in the Olympics automatically means an article, violates
Wikipedia is not a directory, also
verifiability from
reliable independent sources. A local agreement of sports fans on the subject specific notability guideline cannot override policy with its much wider base of support. Which is the point. There are dozens of these articles, we already banned at least one user for mass-creating directory stubs, and this is just another one. Wikipedia is not a directory dates back over
14 years.
Guy (
Help!)
22:49, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- Rules, conventions, guidelines ... Anyone who has appeared in the Olympics has been allowed to have an article. Rather than trying to remove one article on a woman playing a minority sport for a southern-hemisphere country, it would be more useful to work for a change of the notability guideline. When all the one-appearance footballers and cricketers are acknowledged to be non-notable, then broaden the net to Olympians in other sports.
Pam
D
09:09, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- Some WP:FORUMSHOPPING by the OP here. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 13:08, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- Rules, conventions, guidelines ... Anyone who has appeared in the Olympics has been allowed to have an article. Rather than trying to remove one article on a woman playing a minority sport for a southern-hemisphere country, it would be more useful to work for a change of the notability guideline. When all the one-appearance footballers and cricketers are acknowledged to be non-notable, then broaden the net to Olympians in other sports.
Pam
D
09:09, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- I think you are mistaking rules (i.e. policy) for subject-specific notability guidelines, which basically say that people who have competed int he Olympics are likely to have enough sources to have an article. A "rule" that being in the Olympics automatically means an article, violates
Wikipedia is not a directory, also
verifiability from
reliable independent sources. A local agreement of sports fans on the subject specific notability guideline cannot override policy with its much wider base of support. Which is the point. There are dozens of these articles, we already banned at least one user for mass-creating directory stubs, and this is just another one. Wikipedia is not a directory dates back over
14 years.
Guy (
Help!)
22:49, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- ALso known as
Patricia Soto and
Diana Patricia Soto - see
incoming links via redirects.
Pam
D
10:43, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- keep Appearing in the Olympics is enough to show notability. Sandals1 ( talk) 17:40, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- Keep A quick search in Spanish shows a lot of coverage, with results in at least three different languages, though it tends to be either about matches she's played in or on the Olympic team as a whole, including [1]. I think it's enough to pass WP:NOLY. SportingFlyer T· C 02:05, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- Just based on the current sources in the article, I would say "redirect to team article", but there seems to be relevant coverage under the name "Patricia Soto", for example [2]. es:Diana Patricia Soto also shows other medals she has received. So keep. — Kusma ( t· c) 12:07, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- Keep Passes both WP:NOLY and WP:GNG per the above sources. This nomination seems rather WP:POINT-y as does the forum shopping when nom didn't get what he wanted here. Smartyllama ( talk) 14:55, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- Comment (Note, I am coming here via a discussion raised by JzG at NSPORT) JzG is challenging the presumption of notability given by NOLY as only one source exists in the article. The "Keep" !votes stating she's notable because of NOLY are not contributing as NOLY still requires editors to find independent secondary sources to build out the article. Whether JzG had done the necessary legwork per WP:BEFORE is unclear, but there are factors working both with and against this: we have a 2000 Olympian so there should be a good chance there will be online sources but that she is from Peru and that might making finding even online sources more difficult. But !voters cannot restart "NOLY" here; that's exactly the type of WP:ATA in AFDs. -- Masem ( t) 15:12, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- I don't speak Spanish, but I
was able to find sources straight away, which I've listed above, including the fact she captained the national side.
Lugnuts
Fire Walk with Me
15:27, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- But do those sources provide in-depth coverage about her? That she captained the team is a fact, but not significant coverage. Just being able to find sources that include her name is nice, but that's not the extent of what needs to be shown. --
Masem (
t)
15:49, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- Well, these do: one, two, three, four, five. Again, I don't speak Spanish, but if I can find those in a few seconds, I'm sure someone who has a better grasp of the language could find a whole lot more. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 17:34, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- But do those sources provide in-depth coverage about her? That she captained the team is a fact, but not significant coverage. Just being able to find sources that include her name is nice, but that's not the extent of what needs to be shown. --
Masem (
t)
15:49, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- I don't speak Spanish, but I
was able to find sources straight away, which I've listed above, including the fact she captained the national side.
Lugnuts
Fire Walk with Me
15:27, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- Keep Here is not the place to change our clearly established guidelines. Agathoclea ( talk) 15:20, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- Keep Easily meets GNG per the sources Lugnuts found. - DJSasso ( talk) 18:00, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- Keep Meets WP:GNG with the new sources presented by Lugnuts. My advice to the author is to write articles with sources that clearly demonstrate the subject meets WP:GNG from the start. Even if someone meets the SSG and it's a stub I think the article should at least contain a source or two proving notability so we can avoid these discussions. Sports-reference isn't a sufficient source to demonstrate notability. Rikster2 ( talk) 18:19, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was speedy keep. Additionally, the non-neutral post at WT:NSPORTS was a case of WP:CANVAS. — Bagumba ( talk) 04:17, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
Diana Soto
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Diana Soto ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This article has one source, a directory. A biography requires sufficient non-trivial reliable independent sources to ensure neutrality. I cannot find any biographical sources about this subject. Rather than individual sub-stubs it would make more sense to merge these articles to a team or event article. Guy ( Help!) 00:15, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log ( step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2019 February 13. — cyberbot I Talk to my owner:Online 00:36, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. ~Ruyaba~ {talk} 01:41, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Peru-related deletion discussions. ~Ruyaba~ {talk} 01:41, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. ~Ruyaba~ {talk} 01:42, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. ~Ruyaba~ {talk} 01:42, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- Keep per WP:NOLY - competed at the Olympics. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 04:36, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- And she's also played for the Peruvian team at the Pan-American Games, some coverage of her here and here, and this states she has captained the national side too. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 05:06, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- Keep: she's competed in the Olympics, she gets an article - unless and until the Wikipedia rules change. Pam D 09:45, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- ALso known as
Patricia Soto and
Diana Patricia Soto - see
incoming links via redirects.
Pam
D
10:43, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- I think you are mistaking rules (i.e. policy) for subject-specific notability guidelines, which basically say that people who have competed int he Olympics are likely to have enough sources to have an article. A "rule" that being in the Olympics automatically means an article, violates
Wikipedia is not a directory, also
verifiability from
reliable independent sources. A local agreement of sports fans on the subject specific notability guideline cannot override policy with its much wider base of support. Which is the point. There are dozens of these articles, we already banned at least one user for mass-creating directory stubs, and this is just another one. Wikipedia is not a directory dates back over
14 years.
Guy (
Help!)
22:49, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- Rules, conventions, guidelines ... Anyone who has appeared in the Olympics has been allowed to have an article. Rather than trying to remove one article on a woman playing a minority sport for a southern-hemisphere country, it would be more useful to work for a change of the notability guideline. When all the one-appearance footballers and cricketers are acknowledged to be non-notable, then broaden the net to Olympians in other sports.
Pam
D
09:09, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- Some WP:FORUMSHOPPING by the OP here. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 13:08, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- Rules, conventions, guidelines ... Anyone who has appeared in the Olympics has been allowed to have an article. Rather than trying to remove one article on a woman playing a minority sport for a southern-hemisphere country, it would be more useful to work for a change of the notability guideline. When all the one-appearance footballers and cricketers are acknowledged to be non-notable, then broaden the net to Olympians in other sports.
Pam
D
09:09, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- I think you are mistaking rules (i.e. policy) for subject-specific notability guidelines, which basically say that people who have competed int he Olympics are likely to have enough sources to have an article. A "rule" that being in the Olympics automatically means an article, violates
Wikipedia is not a directory, also
verifiability from
reliable independent sources. A local agreement of sports fans on the subject specific notability guideline cannot override policy with its much wider base of support. Which is the point. There are dozens of these articles, we already banned at least one user for mass-creating directory stubs, and this is just another one. Wikipedia is not a directory dates back over
14 years.
Guy (
Help!)
22:49, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- ALso known as
Patricia Soto and
Diana Patricia Soto - see
incoming links via redirects.
Pam
D
10:43, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- keep Appearing in the Olympics is enough to show notability. Sandals1 ( talk) 17:40, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- Keep A quick search in Spanish shows a lot of coverage, with results in at least three different languages, though it tends to be either about matches she's played in or on the Olympic team as a whole, including [1]. I think it's enough to pass WP:NOLY. SportingFlyer T· C 02:05, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- Just based on the current sources in the article, I would say "redirect to team article", but there seems to be relevant coverage under the name "Patricia Soto", for example [2]. es:Diana Patricia Soto also shows other medals she has received. So keep. — Kusma ( t· c) 12:07, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- Keep Passes both WP:NOLY and WP:GNG per the above sources. This nomination seems rather WP:POINT-y as does the forum shopping when nom didn't get what he wanted here. Smartyllama ( talk) 14:55, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- Comment (Note, I am coming here via a discussion raised by JzG at NSPORT) JzG is challenging the presumption of notability given by NOLY as only one source exists in the article. The "Keep" !votes stating she's notable because of NOLY are not contributing as NOLY still requires editors to find independent secondary sources to build out the article. Whether JzG had done the necessary legwork per WP:BEFORE is unclear, but there are factors working both with and against this: we have a 2000 Olympian so there should be a good chance there will be online sources but that she is from Peru and that might making finding even online sources more difficult. But !voters cannot restart "NOLY" here; that's exactly the type of WP:ATA in AFDs. -- Masem ( t) 15:12, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- I don't speak Spanish, but I
was able to find sources straight away, which I've listed above, including the fact she captained the national side.
Lugnuts
Fire Walk with Me
15:27, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- But do those sources provide in-depth coverage about her? That she captained the team is a fact, but not significant coverage. Just being able to find sources that include her name is nice, but that's not the extent of what needs to be shown. --
Masem (
t)
15:49, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- Well, these do: one, two, three, four, five. Again, I don't speak Spanish, but if I can find those in a few seconds, I'm sure someone who has a better grasp of the language could find a whole lot more. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 17:34, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- But do those sources provide in-depth coverage about her? That she captained the team is a fact, but not significant coverage. Just being able to find sources that include her name is nice, but that's not the extent of what needs to be shown. --
Masem (
t)
15:49, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- I don't speak Spanish, but I
was able to find sources straight away, which I've listed above, including the fact she captained the national side.
Lugnuts
Fire Walk with Me
15:27, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- Keep Here is not the place to change our clearly established guidelines. Agathoclea ( talk) 15:20, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- Keep Easily meets GNG per the sources Lugnuts found. - DJSasso ( talk) 18:00, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- Keep Meets WP:GNG with the new sources presented by Lugnuts. My advice to the author is to write articles with sources that clearly demonstrate the subject meets WP:GNG from the start. Even if someone meets the SSG and it's a stub I think the article should at least contain a source or two proving notability so we can avoid these discussions. Sports-reference isn't a sufficient source to demonstrate notability. Rikster2 ( talk) 18:19, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.