- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was redirect to Golden Nation Network#Affiliates and stations. Sandstein 18:41, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
DWFB-DTV
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- DWFB-DTV ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Not enough in-depth coverage to pass WP:GNG. Onel5969 TT me 10:47, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Radio-related deletion discussions. Onel5969 TT me 10:47, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Television and Philippines. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 11:18, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
- Neutral question Is the "-DTV" suffix in official use by the National Telecommunications Commission, or is it not? I'd like that answered before giving a rationale. Nate • ( chatter) 19:27, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
- This has been a very tough issue to get to the bottom of,
Mrschimpf. It seems that the only way NTC releases lists of operating broadcast stations is when people ask for them in Freedom of Information requests. Looking at recent requests at foi.gov.ph, I now have a full list dated June 2020 and a partial list (one page) from December 2021. In this listing, no suffix is bundled with the call sign. A typical entry reads as follows:
Type: TV / Company: People's Television Network, Inc. / Call Sign: DWGT / Ch.: 4 / Location: Quezon City / Province: Metro Manila
There are five types of stations, which are TV, Relay, Translator, DTV, and Pay TV (assigned to one station, DZBC channel 30). Translators use the "D-(channel number)-(letters)" scheme. Others have four-letter call signs. In digital, a translator inherits its existing call sign, e.g. D-8-XM (listed as digital 42, analog 8) Mt. Sto. Tomas, Benguet. The FM listings the NTC publishes also use this type of format, so there is little to compare to.
- This has been a very tough issue to get to the bottom of,
Mrschimpf. It seems that the only way NTC releases lists of operating broadcast stations is when people ask for them in Freedom of Information requests. Looking at recent requests at foi.gov.ph, I now have a full list dated June 2020 and a partial list (one page) from December 2021. In this listing, no suffix is bundled with the call sign. A typical entry reads as follows:
- It is very difficult to suss out the correct form for a call sign, though it is worth noting that a lot of "-TV" uses tend to cite to Wikipedia. I understand why "-DTV" might have been chosen by editors, because the Philippines is an ISDB-T country, and in doing so this would follow Japan. I think the broader problem is that a lot of Philippines TV station pages have sought to blindly mimic the form of US pages (plus a dash of their own quirks) when that is not always the most appropriate thing to do. I had to run an AWB edit recently to remove every mention of PSIP, an ATSC 1.0 element inapplicable to this country, from Philippines pages—dozens of them.
- I have opted to email the Broadcast Services Division of the NTC in hopes of trying to get a definitive response as to the call sign suffixes topic. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 05:44, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗ plicit 13:26, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
- I think that NTC have not yet released any orders on the standard naming convention on digital-only TV stations. Some of the editors here are just adopting the US naming convention that if a station goes all-digital, they will adopt the -DTV callsign. That's why I reverted some of their edits. -
WayKurat (
talk) 07:33, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
- The way the US worked was that all stations pre-transition got a -DT suffix, and then after transition, -DT could be kept if desired but most dropped the suffix or went back to -TV. -DTV as a suffix is much more Japanese. I kind of gather that COVID has really slowed down the NTC, which even in normal times does not seem to be the best at disseminating information. Articles like this put us in the very unusual position of possibly determining the naming conventions ahead of the regulatory authority.
Sammi Brie (she/her •
t •
c) 07:51, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
- Stashing this here... DWCP-DTV, DWFA-DTV, DWFB-DTV, DWFU-DTV, DWHB-DTV, DZEC-DTV, DWVN-DTV, DYBU-DTV, DZBC-DTV, DZOZ-DTV, and DZRJ-DTV are the articles so named at this time. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 04:02, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
- The way the US worked was that all stations pre-transition got a -DT suffix, and then after transition, -DT could be kept if desired but most dropped the suffix or went back to -TV. -DTV as a suffix is much more Japanese. I kind of gather that COVID has really slowed down the NTC, which even in normal times does not seem to be the best at disseminating information. Articles like this put us in the very unusual position of possibly determining the naming conventions ahead of the regulatory authority.
Sammi Brie (she/her •
t •
c) 07:51, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
- I think that NTC have not yet released any orders on the standard naming convention on digital-only TV stations. Some of the editors here are just adopting the US naming convention that if a station goes all-digital, they will adopt the -DTV callsign. That's why I reverted some of their edits. -
WayKurat (
talk) 07:33, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗ plicit 13:51, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
- I understand this discussion is a naming conventions one, but to close it out, I am now in receipt of a reply from the NTC. This is what I sent them on March 2:
1. Do call signs in the Philippines have suffixes for...
AM? (which is correct: DXXX-AM vs. DXXX) FM? (which is correct: DXXX-FM vs. DXXX) TV? (which is correct: DXXX-TV vs. DXXX)
2. If TV stations do have call signs with suffixes...
Does this also apply to translator stations? (which is correct: D-7-ZG-TV or D-7-ZG)
Is there a separate or distinct suffix for digital TV stations (e.g. DWET-DTV), or do digital TV stations also use a -TV suffix?
- The reply was dated March 8 and reached my inbox within the last hour.
Please be informed that the International Telecommunication [sic] Union (ITU) allocated/assigned standard call sign prefixes or unique identifiers to radio and television stations for all the countries, assigning DW, DX, DY and DZ prefixes to the Philippines. Prefix DW and DZ is assigned for Luzon, DY for Visayas and DX for Mindanao. For your inquiry, please be informed that same prefixes/call-sign followed by the service type (AM, FM, TV & DTV) for identification can be assigned to different services i.e. DXXX-AM, DXXX-FM, DXXX-TV and DXXX-DTV. While for the translator, the call-sign format as D-(channel)-two suffix i.e. D-7-AB.
- So,
Mrschimpf, DTV is a valid call sign suffix in the Philippines.
Sammi Brie (she/her •
t •
c) 02:41, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks so much, Sammi Brie, that will be very helpful for future noms. I promised to remain neutral until I got clarity, and I have the information I need. Nate • ( chatter) 03:19, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
- Redirect to Golden Nation Network#Affiliates and stations as per WP:CHEAP, since we can at least ascertain its main network affiliation. Nate • ( chatter) 03:19, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: now that the naming question is resolved, consensus on notability will hopefully follow
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 01:35, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- Redirect to Golden_Nation_Network#Affiliates_and_stations. I see no evidence that this is notable under any standard. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 20:14, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
- Redirect to Golden Nation Network#Affiliates and stations per Mrschimpf and Eggishorn as an WP:ATD for failing WP:BCAST. CruzRamiss2002 ( talk) 14:00, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was redirect to Golden Nation Network#Affiliates and stations. Sandstein 18:41, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
DWFB-DTV
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- DWFB-DTV ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Not enough in-depth coverage to pass WP:GNG. Onel5969 TT me 10:47, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Radio-related deletion discussions. Onel5969 TT me 10:47, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Television and Philippines. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 11:18, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
- Neutral question Is the "-DTV" suffix in official use by the National Telecommunications Commission, or is it not? I'd like that answered before giving a rationale. Nate • ( chatter) 19:27, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
- This has been a very tough issue to get to the bottom of,
Mrschimpf. It seems that the only way NTC releases lists of operating broadcast stations is when people ask for them in Freedom of Information requests. Looking at recent requests at foi.gov.ph, I now have a full list dated June 2020 and a partial list (one page) from December 2021. In this listing, no suffix is bundled with the call sign. A typical entry reads as follows:
Type: TV / Company: People's Television Network, Inc. / Call Sign: DWGT / Ch.: 4 / Location: Quezon City / Province: Metro Manila
There are five types of stations, which are TV, Relay, Translator, DTV, and Pay TV (assigned to one station, DZBC channel 30). Translators use the "D-(channel number)-(letters)" scheme. Others have four-letter call signs. In digital, a translator inherits its existing call sign, e.g. D-8-XM (listed as digital 42, analog 8) Mt. Sto. Tomas, Benguet. The FM listings the NTC publishes also use this type of format, so there is little to compare to.
- This has been a very tough issue to get to the bottom of,
Mrschimpf. It seems that the only way NTC releases lists of operating broadcast stations is when people ask for them in Freedom of Information requests. Looking at recent requests at foi.gov.ph, I now have a full list dated June 2020 and a partial list (one page) from December 2021. In this listing, no suffix is bundled with the call sign. A typical entry reads as follows:
- It is very difficult to suss out the correct form for a call sign, though it is worth noting that a lot of "-TV" uses tend to cite to Wikipedia. I understand why "-DTV" might have been chosen by editors, because the Philippines is an ISDB-T country, and in doing so this would follow Japan. I think the broader problem is that a lot of Philippines TV station pages have sought to blindly mimic the form of US pages (plus a dash of their own quirks) when that is not always the most appropriate thing to do. I had to run an AWB edit recently to remove every mention of PSIP, an ATSC 1.0 element inapplicable to this country, from Philippines pages—dozens of them.
- I have opted to email the Broadcast Services Division of the NTC in hopes of trying to get a definitive response as to the call sign suffixes topic. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 05:44, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗ plicit 13:26, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
- I think that NTC have not yet released any orders on the standard naming convention on digital-only TV stations. Some of the editors here are just adopting the US naming convention that if a station goes all-digital, they will adopt the -DTV callsign. That's why I reverted some of their edits. -
WayKurat (
talk) 07:33, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
- The way the US worked was that all stations pre-transition got a -DT suffix, and then after transition, -DT could be kept if desired but most dropped the suffix or went back to -TV. -DTV as a suffix is much more Japanese. I kind of gather that COVID has really slowed down the NTC, which even in normal times does not seem to be the best at disseminating information. Articles like this put us in the very unusual position of possibly determining the naming conventions ahead of the regulatory authority.
Sammi Brie (she/her •
t •
c) 07:51, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
- Stashing this here... DWCP-DTV, DWFA-DTV, DWFB-DTV, DWFU-DTV, DWHB-DTV, DZEC-DTV, DWVN-DTV, DYBU-DTV, DZBC-DTV, DZOZ-DTV, and DZRJ-DTV are the articles so named at this time. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 04:02, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
- The way the US worked was that all stations pre-transition got a -DT suffix, and then after transition, -DT could be kept if desired but most dropped the suffix or went back to -TV. -DTV as a suffix is much more Japanese. I kind of gather that COVID has really slowed down the NTC, which even in normal times does not seem to be the best at disseminating information. Articles like this put us in the very unusual position of possibly determining the naming conventions ahead of the regulatory authority.
Sammi Brie (she/her •
t •
c) 07:51, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
- I think that NTC have not yet released any orders on the standard naming convention on digital-only TV stations. Some of the editors here are just adopting the US naming convention that if a station goes all-digital, they will adopt the -DTV callsign. That's why I reverted some of their edits. -
WayKurat (
talk) 07:33, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗ plicit 13:51, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
- I understand this discussion is a naming conventions one, but to close it out, I am now in receipt of a reply from the NTC. This is what I sent them on March 2:
1. Do call signs in the Philippines have suffixes for...
AM? (which is correct: DXXX-AM vs. DXXX) FM? (which is correct: DXXX-FM vs. DXXX) TV? (which is correct: DXXX-TV vs. DXXX)
2. If TV stations do have call signs with suffixes...
Does this also apply to translator stations? (which is correct: D-7-ZG-TV or D-7-ZG)
Is there a separate or distinct suffix for digital TV stations (e.g. DWET-DTV), or do digital TV stations also use a -TV suffix?
- The reply was dated March 8 and reached my inbox within the last hour.
Please be informed that the International Telecommunication [sic] Union (ITU) allocated/assigned standard call sign prefixes or unique identifiers to radio and television stations for all the countries, assigning DW, DX, DY and DZ prefixes to the Philippines. Prefix DW and DZ is assigned for Luzon, DY for Visayas and DX for Mindanao. For your inquiry, please be informed that same prefixes/call-sign followed by the service type (AM, FM, TV & DTV) for identification can be assigned to different services i.e. DXXX-AM, DXXX-FM, DXXX-TV and DXXX-DTV. While for the translator, the call-sign format as D-(channel)-two suffix i.e. D-7-AB.
- So,
Mrschimpf, DTV is a valid call sign suffix in the Philippines.
Sammi Brie (she/her •
t •
c) 02:41, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks so much, Sammi Brie, that will be very helpful for future noms. I promised to remain neutral until I got clarity, and I have the information I need. Nate • ( chatter) 03:19, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
- Redirect to Golden Nation Network#Affiliates and stations as per WP:CHEAP, since we can at least ascertain its main network affiliation. Nate • ( chatter) 03:19, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: now that the naming question is resolved, consensus on notability will hopefully follow
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 01:35, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- Redirect to Golden_Nation_Network#Affiliates_and_stations. I see no evidence that this is notable under any standard. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 20:14, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
- Redirect to Golden Nation Network#Affiliates and stations per Mrschimpf and Eggishorn as an WP:ATD for failing WP:BCAST. CruzRamiss2002 ( talk) 14:00, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.