- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was redirect to List of CSI: Crime Scene Investigation characters#D.B. Russell with a reminder that the article will always be in the history if sources are found. (non-admin closure) CLYDE TALK TO ME/ STUFF DONE (I will not see your reply if you don't mention me) 06:18, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
D.B. Russell
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- D.B. Russell ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Sources used in the article are either primary or sources talking about the casting of the character. A quick Google search gives more results about the show and the actor (understandably) rather than the character himself, so it doesn't prove notability. I might be wrong, so I will be putting this to AfD instead. Spinixster (chat!) 01:35, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements, Science fiction and fantasy, and Television. Spinixster (chat!) 01:35, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- Likely keep. Reasonably longstanding and central character on a huge show. The fact that sources discuss the actor is of little importance, if they are discussing the actor's performance of the character.
BD2412
T
03:44, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- @
BD2412 The problem is that just because the character is the main character of a popular show doesn't mean that the character is notable. See
Wikipedia:Notability (fiction). Unless there are sources talking about the character's notability outside of the show, I don't think the character warrants a page.
Spinixster
(chat!)
03:47, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- These will do: "
The Most Heartbreaking Russell Moment From CSI", Looper (February 8, 2022); "
The Important CSI Character You Probably Forgot Peri Gilpin Played, Looper (October 5, 2022).
BD2412
T
04:13, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- @
BD2412 Plot summaries are trivia do not prove notability (see
MOS:TRIVIA,
WP:NOTTVTROPES) I’ve already seen these two sources when doing my Google search.
Spinixster
(chat!)
04:41, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- You seem to be asking for something that you don't want to find, then. These sources present discussion of "the character himself" (in the context of plots, because in what other context would you expect to find such discussion), which is exactly what you had requested in the nomination. Are you looking for something more along the lines of a dissertation on the meaning of Hamlet's soliloquy?
BD2412
T
05:12, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- @ BD2412 You should look at some other character pages for example. NCIS has some pretty good character pages, like Ziva David or Abby Sciuto. Those pages have their problems, but there is a visible Reception section that shows their impact.
- Have you read
Wikipedia:Notability (fiction) yet? From that page:
Articles on fiction are expected to follow existing content policies and guidelines, particularly Wikipedia is not simply plot summaries. Articles on fiction elements are expected to cover more about "real-world" aspects of the element, such as its development and reception, than "in-universe" details.
The majority of the article is made up of plot summaries, and there is no discussion about reception. The casting section can easily be merged into the main article. - I see that Siroxo has pointed out a source that can be used, but more sources would be needed to prove the character's notability. Spinixster (chat!) 07:56, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- You seem to be asking for something that you don't want to find, then. These sources present discussion of "the character himself" (in the context of plots, because in what other context would you expect to find such discussion), which is exactly what you had requested in the nomination. Are you looking for something more along the lines of a dissertation on the meaning of Hamlet's soliloquy?
BD2412
T
05:12, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- @
BD2412 Plot summaries are trivia do not prove notability (see
MOS:TRIVIA,
WP:NOTTVTROPES) I’ve already seen these two sources when doing my Google search.
Spinixster
(chat!)
04:41, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- These will do: "
The Most Heartbreaking Russell Moment From CSI", Looper (February 8, 2022); "
The Important CSI Character You Probably Forgot Peri Gilpin Played, Looper (October 5, 2022).
BD2412
T
04:13, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- @
BD2412 The problem is that just because the character is the main character of a popular show doesn't mean that the character is notable. See
Wikipedia:Notability (fiction). Unless there are sources talking about the character's notability outside of the show, I don't think the character warrants a page.
Spinixster
(chat!)
03:47, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- Comment I see some analysis of the character's impact on the show as part of an analysis of cop shows
[1] —
siro
χ
o
05:14, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- I checked out the source, and it seems like it talks about the show's impact rather than the character's. Spinixster (chat!) 08:23, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- Weak Delete oh this is a tough one. DB is indeed a main character, but his impact lasted only three seasons, particularly in a time when the show was beginning to lose interest. I found one Reuters article that covers Ted Danson's impact of the character outside the show, but it is not in-depth at all. Unfortunately, it does not meet the WP:SIGCOV requirement of an article. Conyo14 ( talk) 19:05, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 02:42, 16 July 2023 (UTC)- Delete There are sources discussing when Danson took over as the lab director on CSI, but nothing discussing the character at length. Leaning delete. Oaktree b ( talk) 02:48, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect. Nothing convincing is presented here or in the article, but some folks suggest there should be. SOFTDELETE would help to preserve this for the eventuality someone will eventually find such sources. Casting history could be merged even now but where? It's pretty trivial information overall. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 05:26, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
- Weak redirect to List of CSI: Crime Scene Investigation characters per BD2412 + nom. -- Slgrandson ( How's my egg-throwing coleslaw?) 05:39, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was redirect to List of CSI: Crime Scene Investigation characters#D.B. Russell with a reminder that the article will always be in the history if sources are found. (non-admin closure) CLYDE TALK TO ME/ STUFF DONE (I will not see your reply if you don't mention me) 06:18, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
D.B. Russell
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- D.B. Russell ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Sources used in the article are either primary or sources talking about the casting of the character. A quick Google search gives more results about the show and the actor (understandably) rather than the character himself, so it doesn't prove notability. I might be wrong, so I will be putting this to AfD instead. Spinixster (chat!) 01:35, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements, Science fiction and fantasy, and Television. Spinixster (chat!) 01:35, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- Likely keep. Reasonably longstanding and central character on a huge show. The fact that sources discuss the actor is of little importance, if they are discussing the actor's performance of the character.
BD2412
T
03:44, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- @
BD2412 The problem is that just because the character is the main character of a popular show doesn't mean that the character is notable. See
Wikipedia:Notability (fiction). Unless there are sources talking about the character's notability outside of the show, I don't think the character warrants a page.
Spinixster
(chat!)
03:47, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- These will do: "
The Most Heartbreaking Russell Moment From CSI", Looper (February 8, 2022); "
The Important CSI Character You Probably Forgot Peri Gilpin Played, Looper (October 5, 2022).
BD2412
T
04:13, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- @
BD2412 Plot summaries are trivia do not prove notability (see
MOS:TRIVIA,
WP:NOTTVTROPES) I’ve already seen these two sources when doing my Google search.
Spinixster
(chat!)
04:41, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- You seem to be asking for something that you don't want to find, then. These sources present discussion of "the character himself" (in the context of plots, because in what other context would you expect to find such discussion), which is exactly what you had requested in the nomination. Are you looking for something more along the lines of a dissertation on the meaning of Hamlet's soliloquy?
BD2412
T
05:12, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- @ BD2412 You should look at some other character pages for example. NCIS has some pretty good character pages, like Ziva David or Abby Sciuto. Those pages have their problems, but there is a visible Reception section that shows their impact.
- Have you read
Wikipedia:Notability (fiction) yet? From that page:
Articles on fiction are expected to follow existing content policies and guidelines, particularly Wikipedia is not simply plot summaries. Articles on fiction elements are expected to cover more about "real-world" aspects of the element, such as its development and reception, than "in-universe" details.
The majority of the article is made up of plot summaries, and there is no discussion about reception. The casting section can easily be merged into the main article. - I see that Siroxo has pointed out a source that can be used, but more sources would be needed to prove the character's notability. Spinixster (chat!) 07:56, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- You seem to be asking for something that you don't want to find, then. These sources present discussion of "the character himself" (in the context of plots, because in what other context would you expect to find such discussion), which is exactly what you had requested in the nomination. Are you looking for something more along the lines of a dissertation on the meaning of Hamlet's soliloquy?
BD2412
T
05:12, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- @
BD2412 Plot summaries are trivia do not prove notability (see
MOS:TRIVIA,
WP:NOTTVTROPES) I’ve already seen these two sources when doing my Google search.
Spinixster
(chat!)
04:41, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- These will do: "
The Most Heartbreaking Russell Moment From CSI", Looper (February 8, 2022); "
The Important CSI Character You Probably Forgot Peri Gilpin Played, Looper (October 5, 2022).
BD2412
T
04:13, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- @
BD2412 The problem is that just because the character is the main character of a popular show doesn't mean that the character is notable. See
Wikipedia:Notability (fiction). Unless there are sources talking about the character's notability outside of the show, I don't think the character warrants a page.
Spinixster
(chat!)
03:47, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- Comment I see some analysis of the character's impact on the show as part of an analysis of cop shows
[1] —
siro
χ
o
05:14, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- I checked out the source, and it seems like it talks about the show's impact rather than the character's. Spinixster (chat!) 08:23, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
- Weak Delete oh this is a tough one. DB is indeed a main character, but his impact lasted only three seasons, particularly in a time when the show was beginning to lose interest. I found one Reuters article that covers Ted Danson's impact of the character outside the show, but it is not in-depth at all. Unfortunately, it does not meet the WP:SIGCOV requirement of an article. Conyo14 ( talk) 19:05, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 02:42, 16 July 2023 (UTC)- Delete There are sources discussing when Danson took over as the lab director on CSI, but nothing discussing the character at length. Leaning delete. Oaktree b ( talk) 02:48, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect. Nothing convincing is presented here or in the article, but some folks suggest there should be. SOFTDELETE would help to preserve this for the eventuality someone will eventually find such sources. Casting history could be merged even now but where? It's pretty trivial information overall. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 05:26, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
- Weak redirect to List of CSI: Crime Scene Investigation characters per BD2412 + nom. -- Slgrandson ( How's my egg-throwing coleslaw?) 05:39, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.