The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Delete - fails GNG - I can't find any sources. Apparently there is a bar in Wisconsin called the Choo Choo Bar, though. I would say redirect to company, but it doesn't seem to have a page, so...
‡ Єl Cid of ᐺalenciaᐐT₳LKᐬ12:29, 22 March 2019 (UTC)reply
The subject is described iconically andis used as a cultural reference point:
"SWITCHING CHANNELS". The Canberra Times. Vol. 65, no. 20, 275. Australian Capital Territory, Australia. 15 October 1990. p. 26. Retrieved 25 March 2019 – via National Library of Australia.
"What the sweets rated". The Canberra Times. Vol. 62, no. 19, 135. Australian Capital Territory, Australia. 25 February 1988. p. 26. Retrieved 25 March 2019 – via National Library of Australia.
"Sweet dreams of you". The Canberra Times. Vol. 62, no. 19, 135. Australian Capital Territory, Australia. 25 February 1988. p. 26. Retrieved 25 March 2019 – via National Library of Australia.
That's impressive research, but please note we need in-depth coverage. What you have shown is that the subject is mentioned in passing in few literary pieces. Your first set of links seems to be about an "Essay by Larissa Hjorth." That essay is not even about the bar, it mentions it in passing (in a single sentence of the poem-essay, it mentions the bar: "Memory has left a Choo-choo bar flavour in her mouth."
[2] mentions in the subject in passing, just listing it with some other products; it is not even clear if the subject is considered to be really important or if it is a joke. That the candy bar is displayed in a museum
[3] to illustrate, among with a bunch of other products, sample "Plaistowe's confectionery, October 1972", is not that helpful - the company that makes it may be notable, but the bar is not. If the bar is notable than it itself would be the subject of the exhibition. Not everything in museums is uniquely notable. And all of your other mentions are similar mentions in passing. To quote from one: "The request evoked a lot of memories: of'old-fashioned fruit and nut chocolate", a penchant for "chewers rather than suck ers", "four-a-penny aniseed balls, Choo Choo Bars which made your tongue go dark blue, Fan tales which rip out a filling in one bite" and "Jaffas, especially at the pictures when the old Capitol at Manuka had wooden floors"." I am sorry, but Choo Choo bar seems no more notable than concepts of
ear sucking,
aniseed balls, and such, and likely less so as at least those are more generalized concepts, but it is just a single product. Bottom line, your list of refs is impressive, but they all fail as they are not in-depth. Sorry, but that's as good as a google-hit count confirming that the subject exists. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here10:48, 25 March 2019 (UTC)reply
I am not aware that any one reference or any reference has to be in-depth. Notability and verifiabilty just require that sufficient independent reliable material exists so that a sufficiently in-depth article can be written. The above demonstrates that a sufficiently in-depth article can be written.
Aoziwe (
talk)
11:55, 25 March 2019 (UTC)reply
See
WP:GNG. In-depth means significant. None of the refs you provided is a significant treatment of the topic, in fact they all fall square under passing (trivial) mentions. How are we supposed to use the fiction-line that some character felt "a Choo-choo bar flavour in her mouth" as a source for this article? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here13:16, 25 March 2019 (UTC)reply
It is a perfect reference for use in a section such as "In literature'. It also indicates a cultural focal point used by an author.
Aoziwe (
talk)
10:46, 26 March 2019 (UTC)reply
I also suggest that they are not passing mentions, brief certainly, but the authors have gone to specific effort to refer to the subject, and to actually make a point using the subject.
Aoziwe (
talk)
10:49, 26 March 2019 (UTC)reply
It's hardly perfect
WP:OR (to say that the subject has cultural significance; no source says this) or at least the use of
WP:PRIMARY (to say that the subject has been mentioned in a single literary work). It's one thing if the poem or essay would be about the subject. But it isn't, the subject is just mention in passing. How more in passing can you get? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here04:38, 28 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Not all of them, but keep in mind they did post a link showing a number of mentions in reliable Australian newspapers just in this decade alone, which I couldn't find in my before search.
SportingFlyerT·C08:30, 28 March 2019 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Delete - fails GNG - I can't find any sources. Apparently there is a bar in Wisconsin called the Choo Choo Bar, though. I would say redirect to company, but it doesn't seem to have a page, so...
‡ Єl Cid of ᐺalenciaᐐT₳LKᐬ12:29, 22 March 2019 (UTC)reply
The subject is described iconically andis used as a cultural reference point:
"SWITCHING CHANNELS". The Canberra Times. Vol. 65, no. 20, 275. Australian Capital Territory, Australia. 15 October 1990. p. 26. Retrieved 25 March 2019 – via National Library of Australia.
"What the sweets rated". The Canberra Times. Vol. 62, no. 19, 135. Australian Capital Territory, Australia. 25 February 1988. p. 26. Retrieved 25 March 2019 – via National Library of Australia.
"Sweet dreams of you". The Canberra Times. Vol. 62, no. 19, 135. Australian Capital Territory, Australia. 25 February 1988. p. 26. Retrieved 25 March 2019 – via National Library of Australia.
That's impressive research, but please note we need in-depth coverage. What you have shown is that the subject is mentioned in passing in few literary pieces. Your first set of links seems to be about an "Essay by Larissa Hjorth." That essay is not even about the bar, it mentions it in passing (in a single sentence of the poem-essay, it mentions the bar: "Memory has left a Choo-choo bar flavour in her mouth."
[2] mentions in the subject in passing, just listing it with some other products; it is not even clear if the subject is considered to be really important or if it is a joke. That the candy bar is displayed in a museum
[3] to illustrate, among with a bunch of other products, sample "Plaistowe's confectionery, October 1972", is not that helpful - the company that makes it may be notable, but the bar is not. If the bar is notable than it itself would be the subject of the exhibition. Not everything in museums is uniquely notable. And all of your other mentions are similar mentions in passing. To quote from one: "The request evoked a lot of memories: of'old-fashioned fruit and nut chocolate", a penchant for "chewers rather than suck ers", "four-a-penny aniseed balls, Choo Choo Bars which made your tongue go dark blue, Fan tales which rip out a filling in one bite" and "Jaffas, especially at the pictures when the old Capitol at Manuka had wooden floors"." I am sorry, but Choo Choo bar seems no more notable than concepts of
ear sucking,
aniseed balls, and such, and likely less so as at least those are more generalized concepts, but it is just a single product. Bottom line, your list of refs is impressive, but they all fail as they are not in-depth. Sorry, but that's as good as a google-hit count confirming that the subject exists. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here10:48, 25 March 2019 (UTC)reply
I am not aware that any one reference or any reference has to be in-depth. Notability and verifiabilty just require that sufficient independent reliable material exists so that a sufficiently in-depth article can be written. The above demonstrates that a sufficiently in-depth article can be written.
Aoziwe (
talk)
11:55, 25 March 2019 (UTC)reply
See
WP:GNG. In-depth means significant. None of the refs you provided is a significant treatment of the topic, in fact they all fall square under passing (trivial) mentions. How are we supposed to use the fiction-line that some character felt "a Choo-choo bar flavour in her mouth" as a source for this article? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here13:16, 25 March 2019 (UTC)reply
It is a perfect reference for use in a section such as "In literature'. It also indicates a cultural focal point used by an author.
Aoziwe (
talk)
10:46, 26 March 2019 (UTC)reply
I also suggest that they are not passing mentions, brief certainly, but the authors have gone to specific effort to refer to the subject, and to actually make a point using the subject.
Aoziwe (
talk)
10:49, 26 March 2019 (UTC)reply
It's hardly perfect
WP:OR (to say that the subject has cultural significance; no source says this) or at least the use of
WP:PRIMARY (to say that the subject has been mentioned in a single literary work). It's one thing if the poem or essay would be about the subject. But it isn't, the subject is just mention in passing. How more in passing can you get? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here04:38, 28 March 2019 (UTC)reply
Not all of them, but keep in mind they did post a link showing a number of mentions in reliable Australian newspapers just in this decade alone, which I couldn't find in my before search.
SportingFlyerT·C08:30, 28 March 2019 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.