The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
A short lived video game developer that does not appear to pass the
WP:GNG or
WP:NCORP. Though the article says they never developed a game, it does seem like they co-developed one, "adgame" about the Toyota
Yaris (video game), but that was it. The only sources currently in the article, and all other sources I can find through searches aside from trivial mentions, are all either just reports on its deal with EA or reports on the company shutting down, which, per
WP:NCORP, falls under routine coverage that does not contribute towards notability. It was nominated for deletion once way back in 2007, but that resulted in a No Consensus decision, largely because it was still unclear whether or not the studio was still in operation. As we now know that it is not, and never produced anything of note, I felt it was time to re-examine it.
Rorshacma (
talk)
03:36, 10 October 2021 (UTC)reply
@
Czar: I feel that two !votes for merging, along with one !vote for deletion (the nomination itself) does not constitute a solid consensus. Note that the nominator appears to be opining for straight deletion, rather than merging or redirection. It seems that you may be discounting the opinion of the nominator in favor of yours and Piotrus' above, essentially declaring a consensus by way of questioning the relisting of the discussion. North America100005:45, 23 October 2021 (UTC)reply
AfDs are closed in logs each day with comparable activity. This is an uncontroversial close, especially given that it
preserves content from a stub. czar05:57, 23 October 2021 (UTC)reply
@
Czar: Perhaps you could provide some examples of similar recent closures. While AfD is not based upon an !vote count, two merge !votes and one delete !vote, all of which include valid, guideline- and policy-based arguments, does not constitute an actual consensus. I've been doing this for a while; perhaps standards have laxed in favor of faster closures. It's also important to note the arguments in the previous AfD discussion as well, rather than ignore that discussion. North America100006:25, 23 October 2021 (UTC)reply
@
Czar: Some of those closures you mention are non-admin closures, and very well may have been best closed by an admin. Most are discussions where three users (including the nominator) have all opined for the same result, which is not how this discussion has transpired. Nowhere at
WP:RELIST does it say that relists are "only meant" when consensus is controversial, as you state above. It seems that you are entirely making your own rule in this case, because it is not policy based. Furthermore, in congruence with
WP:RELIST, this discussion has had "only a few participants (including the nominator)." This is not a particularly substantive debate, and the concerns of the nominator have barely been addressed. Additionally, the fact that the article has already been through the AfD process once with a no consensus closure deems this discussion as at the very least potentially controversial. If I were to close this now with a merge result, it is quite possible that others may consider it to be a
WP:SUPERVOTE. Essentially, if one more user were to opine for merging, with a valid guideline- or policy-based rationale, that would be enough to be considered a consensus in this particular instance. A simple two versus one, when all provide such valid rationales, is not really a consensus, it's a vote count. North America100007:29, 23 October 2021 (UTC)reply
The mentioned articles are not at deletion review and they will not be contested. As for vote counting, I don't think it's "two versus one" and it's easy enough to ask the "one": @
Rorshacma, are you opposed to merger? czar07:04, 26 October 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment - I suppose I would not be opposed to merger. Looking at the
Blizzard North article, there is already precedent for another, short lived company that was formed by former employees to be mentioned there, so a sentence merger there for this one would probably be fine.
Rorshacma (
talk)
16:48, 26 October 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep I've added a couple sources. I feel articles in IGN and Gamespot are sufficient to meet GNG, and this is enough to establish notability per
WP:GNG: "It meets either the general notability guideline (GNG) below, or the criteria outlined in a subject-specific notability guideline (SNG) listed in the box on the right".
NemesisAT (
talk)
21:38, 23 October 2021 (UTC)reply
Yeah, one of the new sources is literally a press release from the company, and thus not a valid reliable source, and the other is still just routine coverage of the studio's closure.
Rorshacma (
talk)
16:48, 26 October 2021 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Relisting to evaluate new sources
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwaiiplayer (
talk)
13:24, 25 October 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge and redirect to
Blizzard North as an
WP:ATD measure. The further sources which have been brought up still do not provide nearly enough information for its written prose to be expanded beyond that of a near-stub. On a side note,
North America1000's decision to err on the side of caution by relisting the discussion should be commended.
Haleth (
talk)
14:06, 27 October 2021 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
A short lived video game developer that does not appear to pass the
WP:GNG or
WP:NCORP. Though the article says they never developed a game, it does seem like they co-developed one, "adgame" about the Toyota
Yaris (video game), but that was it. The only sources currently in the article, and all other sources I can find through searches aside from trivial mentions, are all either just reports on its deal with EA or reports on the company shutting down, which, per
WP:NCORP, falls under routine coverage that does not contribute towards notability. It was nominated for deletion once way back in 2007, but that resulted in a No Consensus decision, largely because it was still unclear whether or not the studio was still in operation. As we now know that it is not, and never produced anything of note, I felt it was time to re-examine it.
Rorshacma (
talk)
03:36, 10 October 2021 (UTC)reply
@
Czar: I feel that two !votes for merging, along with one !vote for deletion (the nomination itself) does not constitute a solid consensus. Note that the nominator appears to be opining for straight deletion, rather than merging or redirection. It seems that you may be discounting the opinion of the nominator in favor of yours and Piotrus' above, essentially declaring a consensus by way of questioning the relisting of the discussion. North America100005:45, 23 October 2021 (UTC)reply
AfDs are closed in logs each day with comparable activity. This is an uncontroversial close, especially given that it
preserves content from a stub. czar05:57, 23 October 2021 (UTC)reply
@
Czar: Perhaps you could provide some examples of similar recent closures. While AfD is not based upon an !vote count, two merge !votes and one delete !vote, all of which include valid, guideline- and policy-based arguments, does not constitute an actual consensus. I've been doing this for a while; perhaps standards have laxed in favor of faster closures. It's also important to note the arguments in the previous AfD discussion as well, rather than ignore that discussion. North America100006:25, 23 October 2021 (UTC)reply
@
Czar: Some of those closures you mention are non-admin closures, and very well may have been best closed by an admin. Most are discussions where three users (including the nominator) have all opined for the same result, which is not how this discussion has transpired. Nowhere at
WP:RELIST does it say that relists are "only meant" when consensus is controversial, as you state above. It seems that you are entirely making your own rule in this case, because it is not policy based. Furthermore, in congruence with
WP:RELIST, this discussion has had "only a few participants (including the nominator)." This is not a particularly substantive debate, and the concerns of the nominator have barely been addressed. Additionally, the fact that the article has already been through the AfD process once with a no consensus closure deems this discussion as at the very least potentially controversial. If I were to close this now with a merge result, it is quite possible that others may consider it to be a
WP:SUPERVOTE. Essentially, if one more user were to opine for merging, with a valid guideline- or policy-based rationale, that would be enough to be considered a consensus in this particular instance. A simple two versus one, when all provide such valid rationales, is not really a consensus, it's a vote count. North America100007:29, 23 October 2021 (UTC)reply
The mentioned articles are not at deletion review and they will not be contested. As for vote counting, I don't think it's "two versus one" and it's easy enough to ask the "one": @
Rorshacma, are you opposed to merger? czar07:04, 26 October 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment - I suppose I would not be opposed to merger. Looking at the
Blizzard North article, there is already precedent for another, short lived company that was formed by former employees to be mentioned there, so a sentence merger there for this one would probably be fine.
Rorshacma (
talk)
16:48, 26 October 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep I've added a couple sources. I feel articles in IGN and Gamespot are sufficient to meet GNG, and this is enough to establish notability per
WP:GNG: "It meets either the general notability guideline (GNG) below, or the criteria outlined in a subject-specific notability guideline (SNG) listed in the box on the right".
NemesisAT (
talk)
21:38, 23 October 2021 (UTC)reply
Yeah, one of the new sources is literally a press release from the company, and thus not a valid reliable source, and the other is still just routine coverage of the studio's closure.
Rorshacma (
talk)
16:48, 26 October 2021 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Relisting to evaluate new sources
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwaiiplayer (
talk)
13:24, 25 October 2021 (UTC)reply
Merge and redirect to
Blizzard North as an
WP:ATD measure. The further sources which have been brought up still do not provide nearly enough information for its written prose to be expanded beyond that of a near-stub. On a side note,
North America1000's decision to err on the side of caution by relisting the discussion should be commended.
Haleth (
talk)
14:06, 27 October 2021 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.