- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was redirect to F-Zero#Plot which can be re-visited, target wise, as a matter of editorial judgement should a character list come into existence Star Mississippi 03:30, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
Captain Falcon
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Captain Falcon ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails SIGCOV and notability, relying on mostly small quick statements to try and give it any semblance of a body via WP:REFBOMB. We have a situation here where the sources *themselves* point out there's nothing to say about the character outside of the old meme regarding his voice lines, and even then trying to turn up discussion regarding them has been fruitless.
In the end, it's the same problem as many other Smash Bros. focused character articles. Kung Fu Man ( talk) 18:31, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements and Video games. Kung Fu Man ( talk) 18:31, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep While I see the nom's point about a lot of these references being short, references 10 and 35 seem to be independent, non-trivial RS coverage of the character. Jclemens ( talk) 08:16, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
- 10 is a "How to" guide for the character though, and one done for every character in the series on the site (complete with a table of contents in there).-- Kung Fu Man ( talk) 08:44, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect to F-Zero#Plot - while I strongly disagree with the logic behind boldly redirecting Captain Falcon of all people, the sources do not demonstrate SIGCOV exists in more than a select article. I am here wondering why there isn't a character list for the series yet, though. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ ( ᴛ) 20:22, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
- Delete I agree with the lack of SIGCOV. Media hardly comments about the character outside of Smash Bros. Context is limited to brief mentions. This leads to speculative information being added as seen in the first sentence of "Creation and characteristics". Half of that is not sourced. For interested parties, see
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of F-Zero characters as well. There appears to be meaningful information for the SNES F-Zero game so I've added the
ref idea there.
« Ryūkotsusei » 21:40, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
- That's a poorly argued AfD, as the topic of "List of F-Zero characters" is "F-Zero" and arguing as if it is "F-Zero characters" will yield inappropriate results like this. Furthermore, no ATDs were implemented, which is almost always wrong for an article of NN (or assessed as NN) fictional content. Jclemens ( talk) 08:09, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
- Hmm, I feel like I wasn't thorough enough back in 2020 as Hardcore Gaming 101 definitely has some things to say about the characters and other sources likely do as well. I probably wouldn't have !voted for its deletion now, knowing what I do. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ ( ᴛ) 04:33, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
- Comment. Captain Falcon seems to be featured on page 74 of
Things I Learned from Mario's Butt and some information on
how he's uncommon among elite Melee players but it's borderline for me; I'm having trouble finding more sourcing. —
Red-tailed hawk
(nest) 17:05, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
- There's of course stuff from
Game Rant,
Screen Rant,
CBR, etc., but
WP:VG/S seems to downplay them as marginally reliable or unreliable. —
Red-tailed hawk
(nest) 17:06, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
- Yeah, the consensus is that most of the Valnet sites are situational sources. The CBR article, in particular, would be unusable, since it was just published in July 2023. I'm not sure on the Game Rant and Screen Rant sources. While these were published prior to 2023, a number of editors are wary on using anything Valnet to demonstrate notability, a stance I don't particularly agree with.
- The Things I Learned from Mario's Butt source looks like it could be a good one. Just too bad Google doesn't allow us to access the whole page.
MoonJet (
talk) 18:29, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
- I'm able to get it by just clicking on the "preview" button. For those who can't, it's three paragraphs that are dedicated mostly to the physique of the character (and it describes the physical motion of what a "falcon punch" is). —
Red-tailed hawk
(nest) 21:32, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
- Speaking frankly I would urge some caution on citing Laura Kate Dale for *anything* given their track record. As for the sources overall, most are just dishing out factoids about the character than discussing him. Screen Rant's is about his gameplay, and is in regards to that particular game. Gameplay commentary can be a bit rough to cite because you need to be able to show there was some impact from it to really make it stick, while actually actually discussing the character via other sources and showing why they matter. As I said elsewhere I have no problem with Valnet for sourcing, but these are just not cutting the mustard.--
Kung Fu Man (
talk) 21:46, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
- The point of Valnet's sites are to create low effort, cheap content to get clicks. These sources are no exception, with some of the "top 10 facts" being things that aren't even real facts, like "he's shrouded in mystery". I'm sure I could come up with more interesting facts if I spent more than 10 minutes researching Falcon, but they get paid $5 per article so they have no reason to. This is to be strictly contrasted with more well researched articles and is why using them for purely informational purposes is the only real path forward with them.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 00:18, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
- The sites do produce decent editorial pieces every now and then. I think in general though folks need to consider *what* they can pull from a source that's meaningful vs a source existing. The whole "Facts You Didn't Know!" format certainly doesn't offer much and the above are just that. We've seen that with sources like that "1000 Greatest Video Game Characters" book though too, where most of the entries were just "here's this character's backstory".-- Kung Fu Man ( talk) 04:45, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
- The point of Valnet's sites are to create low effort, cheap content to get clicks. These sources are no exception, with some of the "top 10 facts" being things that aren't even real facts, like "he's shrouded in mystery". I'm sure I could come up with more interesting facts if I spent more than 10 minutes researching Falcon, but they get paid $5 per article so they have no reason to. This is to be strictly contrasted with more well researched articles and is why using them for purely informational purposes is the only real path forward with them.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 00:18, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
- Speaking frankly I would urge some caution on citing Laura Kate Dale for *anything* given their track record. As for the sources overall, most are just dishing out factoids about the character than discussing him. Screen Rant's is about his gameplay, and is in regards to that particular game. Gameplay commentary can be a bit rough to cite because you need to be able to show there was some impact from it to really make it stick, while actually actually discussing the character via other sources and showing why they matter. As I said elsewhere I have no problem with Valnet for sourcing, but these are just not cutting the mustard.--
Kung Fu Man (
talk) 21:46, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
- I'm able to get it by just clicking on the "preview" button. For those who can't, it's three paragraphs that are dedicated mostly to the physique of the character (and it describes the physical motion of what a "falcon punch" is). —
Red-tailed hawk
(nest) 21:32, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
- There's of course stuff from
Game Rant,
Screen Rant,
CBR, etc., but
WP:VG/S seems to downplay them as marginally reliable or unreliable. —
Red-tailed hawk
(nest) 17:06, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect Fails SIGCOV based on the current sources. The commentary is trivial and mostly about Smash Bros. and that does not demonstrate notability. This article needs a couple of good sources that discuss the character in detail, not just in passing. Fieryninja ( talk) 19:21, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect Sadly, most of the sources were from Smash, nothing else. GreenishPickle! ( 🔔) 13:18, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect per Zxcvbnm. Sadly there aren't more than trivial mentions here. A character list would be a good idea, but the main game article will suffice for now. Shooterwalker ( talk) 02:48, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was redirect to F-Zero#Plot which can be re-visited, target wise, as a matter of editorial judgement should a character list come into existence Star Mississippi 03:30, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
Captain Falcon
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Captain Falcon ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails SIGCOV and notability, relying on mostly small quick statements to try and give it any semblance of a body via WP:REFBOMB. We have a situation here where the sources *themselves* point out there's nothing to say about the character outside of the old meme regarding his voice lines, and even then trying to turn up discussion regarding them has been fruitless.
In the end, it's the same problem as many other Smash Bros. focused character articles. Kung Fu Man ( talk) 18:31, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements and Video games. Kung Fu Man ( talk) 18:31, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep While I see the nom's point about a lot of these references being short, references 10 and 35 seem to be independent, non-trivial RS coverage of the character. Jclemens ( talk) 08:16, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
- 10 is a "How to" guide for the character though, and one done for every character in the series on the site (complete with a table of contents in there).-- Kung Fu Man ( talk) 08:44, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect to F-Zero#Plot - while I strongly disagree with the logic behind boldly redirecting Captain Falcon of all people, the sources do not demonstrate SIGCOV exists in more than a select article. I am here wondering why there isn't a character list for the series yet, though. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ ( ᴛ) 20:22, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
- Delete I agree with the lack of SIGCOV. Media hardly comments about the character outside of Smash Bros. Context is limited to brief mentions. This leads to speculative information being added as seen in the first sentence of "Creation and characteristics". Half of that is not sourced. For interested parties, see
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of F-Zero characters as well. There appears to be meaningful information for the SNES F-Zero game so I've added the
ref idea there.
« Ryūkotsusei » 21:40, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
- That's a poorly argued AfD, as the topic of "List of F-Zero characters" is "F-Zero" and arguing as if it is "F-Zero characters" will yield inappropriate results like this. Furthermore, no ATDs were implemented, which is almost always wrong for an article of NN (or assessed as NN) fictional content. Jclemens ( talk) 08:09, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
- Hmm, I feel like I wasn't thorough enough back in 2020 as Hardcore Gaming 101 definitely has some things to say about the characters and other sources likely do as well. I probably wouldn't have !voted for its deletion now, knowing what I do. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ ( ᴛ) 04:33, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
- Comment. Captain Falcon seems to be featured on page 74 of
Things I Learned from Mario's Butt and some information on
how he's uncommon among elite Melee players but it's borderline for me; I'm having trouble finding more sourcing. —
Red-tailed hawk
(nest) 17:05, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
- There's of course stuff from
Game Rant,
Screen Rant,
CBR, etc., but
WP:VG/S seems to downplay them as marginally reliable or unreliable. —
Red-tailed hawk
(nest) 17:06, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
- Yeah, the consensus is that most of the Valnet sites are situational sources. The CBR article, in particular, would be unusable, since it was just published in July 2023. I'm not sure on the Game Rant and Screen Rant sources. While these were published prior to 2023, a number of editors are wary on using anything Valnet to demonstrate notability, a stance I don't particularly agree with.
- The Things I Learned from Mario's Butt source looks like it could be a good one. Just too bad Google doesn't allow us to access the whole page.
MoonJet (
talk) 18:29, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
- I'm able to get it by just clicking on the "preview" button. For those who can't, it's three paragraphs that are dedicated mostly to the physique of the character (and it describes the physical motion of what a "falcon punch" is). —
Red-tailed hawk
(nest) 21:32, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
- Speaking frankly I would urge some caution on citing Laura Kate Dale for *anything* given their track record. As for the sources overall, most are just dishing out factoids about the character than discussing him. Screen Rant's is about his gameplay, and is in regards to that particular game. Gameplay commentary can be a bit rough to cite because you need to be able to show there was some impact from it to really make it stick, while actually actually discussing the character via other sources and showing why they matter. As I said elsewhere I have no problem with Valnet for sourcing, but these are just not cutting the mustard.--
Kung Fu Man (
talk) 21:46, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
- The point of Valnet's sites are to create low effort, cheap content to get clicks. These sources are no exception, with some of the "top 10 facts" being things that aren't even real facts, like "he's shrouded in mystery". I'm sure I could come up with more interesting facts if I spent more than 10 minutes researching Falcon, but they get paid $5 per article so they have no reason to. This is to be strictly contrasted with more well researched articles and is why using them for purely informational purposes is the only real path forward with them.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 00:18, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
- The sites do produce decent editorial pieces every now and then. I think in general though folks need to consider *what* they can pull from a source that's meaningful vs a source existing. The whole "Facts You Didn't Know!" format certainly doesn't offer much and the above are just that. We've seen that with sources like that "1000 Greatest Video Game Characters" book though too, where most of the entries were just "here's this character's backstory".-- Kung Fu Man ( talk) 04:45, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
- The point of Valnet's sites are to create low effort, cheap content to get clicks. These sources are no exception, with some of the "top 10 facts" being things that aren't even real facts, like "he's shrouded in mystery". I'm sure I could come up with more interesting facts if I spent more than 10 minutes researching Falcon, but they get paid $5 per article so they have no reason to. This is to be strictly contrasted with more well researched articles and is why using them for purely informational purposes is the only real path forward with them.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 00:18, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
- Speaking frankly I would urge some caution on citing Laura Kate Dale for *anything* given their track record. As for the sources overall, most are just dishing out factoids about the character than discussing him. Screen Rant's is about his gameplay, and is in regards to that particular game. Gameplay commentary can be a bit rough to cite because you need to be able to show there was some impact from it to really make it stick, while actually actually discussing the character via other sources and showing why they matter. As I said elsewhere I have no problem with Valnet for sourcing, but these are just not cutting the mustard.--
Kung Fu Man (
talk) 21:46, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
- I'm able to get it by just clicking on the "preview" button. For those who can't, it's three paragraphs that are dedicated mostly to the physique of the character (and it describes the physical motion of what a "falcon punch" is). —
Red-tailed hawk
(nest) 21:32, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
- There's of course stuff from
Game Rant,
Screen Rant,
CBR, etc., but
WP:VG/S seems to downplay them as marginally reliable or unreliable. —
Red-tailed hawk
(nest) 17:06, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect Fails SIGCOV based on the current sources. The commentary is trivial and mostly about Smash Bros. and that does not demonstrate notability. This article needs a couple of good sources that discuss the character in detail, not just in passing. Fieryninja ( talk) 19:21, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect Sadly, most of the sources were from Smash, nothing else. GreenishPickle! ( 🔔) 13:18, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect per Zxcvbnm. Sadly there aren't more than trivial mentions here. A character list would be a good idea, but the main game article will suffice for now. Shooterwalker ( talk) 02:48, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.