- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. (non-admin closure) ASTIG️🙃 ( ICE-T • ICE CUBE) 12:15, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
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- Callum Voisin ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Racing driver. No indication of being notable. No significant coverage. Fails WP:BIO. WP:SIGCOV. scope_creep Talk 11:16, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Motorsport, Switzerland, and United Kingdom. 5225C ( talk • contributions) 11:28, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
- Keep Whilst his career in cars has been very short, there are multiple decent references where he is the subject (I have replaced some of the references with more in-depth, independent sources). He was also a nominee for the Autosport BRDC Award and thus written about by Autosport. He won several times in GB3 this year and finished high in the championship. Although it’s more of a weak keep for me, and it’s bordering on WP:TOOSOON, I think it is worth keeping based on the few decent sources such as the Autosport article and Scout Report: Callum Voisin, plus that he was quite successful in GB3 this year with a lot of potential for next year and longer. It seems like if this article were to be deleted it would end up being created again not long in the future, which hence seems like a bit of a waste to delete this article. DRYT.Motorsport ( talk) 10:29, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
- Keep per the points above. Autosport, Formula Scout, and The Checkered Flag all have coverage. As well, I strongly disagree with the assertion that there's a lack of significant coverage. Although it is an interview (and the definition of independence for those has been debated), 1 is another long source for coverage of his career. SmackJam ( talk) 20:11, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
- Comment The driver has won a few races but I don't see him winning any kind racing series. How can he be notable? The notability criteria per WP:NSPORT is WP:NMOTORSPORT. I don't see any reference that satisfy any of the 9 criteria on WP:NMOTORSPORT. The simple reason for that is that it is very very early career, and the subject is non-notable. scope_creep Talk 18:37, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
- Delete - WP:TOOSOON for an article. The Autosport source only gives a very brief piece of coverage to this article's subject, nowhere near enough to be considered WP:SIGCOV. The other sources either appear to be non-independent from a notability guideline perspective or are coverage of events that this person happens to have participated in with only WP:ROUTINE coverage of Voisin. Many of these sources are also of questionable reliability, perhaps not enough to exclude their usage anywhere on Wikipedia, but certainly enough that we should be wary of their use in a WP:BLP of such a young subject. HumanBodyPiloter5 ( talk) 18:26, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
- Keep Points mentioned above show that this is a bit early, but coverage is there and there is likely to be more in the future. A bit soon but should be kept. AmazingLemur41 ( talk) 20:00, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
- Editor is a
WP:SPA, possibly the driver himself.
scope_creep
Talk
20:06, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
- Dude I’m not? I’ve literally made multiple edits before, I don’t use Wikipedia that often because there are never that many edits which need doing, but I don’t see how you could think that. Am I supposed to have a certain number of edits to reply on these? Not that I can see, I really don’t understand what makes you say that.
AmazingLemur41 (
talk)
21:48, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
- Mate, you have seven edits to Wikipedia. Certainly anybody can come in to edit Wikipedia, but when you come to Afd and say the person is notable, when he has only won three races. That makes me think that your trying to buffalo and subvert the Afd, when there is absolutely zero evidence the guy is notable.
scope_creep
Talk
21:52, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
- Putting all that aside, race wins are not necessary in-and-of themselves to establish notability. A driver could hypothetically be notable for having some sort of spectacular lack of victories, WP:NMOTORSPORT is just a guideline which indicates which what drivers are highly likely to be notable (to such an extent that nominating such articles for deletion would be likely to be considered a waste of everybody's time), and competing in GB3 comes nowhere near the bar set there so we just need to consider the WP:GNG. The issue here is whether Voisin has received significant coverage in independent, reliable sources. Personally I think that bar is not met (bearing in mind that many of the sources may provide significant coverage of the events Voisin has competed in, but the coverage of Voisin appears to still be WP:ROUTINE). I should be clear that I generally set a high bar for WP:SIGCOV when it comes to WP:BLPs of WP:MINORs, as defamatory vandalism is a potentially serious concern and may not be picked up on promptly by good-faith editors before it causes some sort of harm. HumanBodyPiloter5 ( talk) 00:18, 20 December 2022 (UTC) HumanBodyPiloter5 ( talk) 00:20, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
- Mate, you have seven edits to Wikipedia. Certainly anybody can come in to edit Wikipedia, but when you come to Afd and say the person is notable, when he has only won three races. That makes me think that your trying to buffalo and subvert the Afd, when there is absolutely zero evidence the guy is notable.
scope_creep
Talk
21:52, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
- Dude I’m not? I’ve literally made multiple edits before, I don’t use Wikipedia that often because there are never that many edits which need doing, but I don’t see how you could think that. Am I supposed to have a certain number of edits to reply on these? Not that I can see, I really don’t understand what makes you say that.
AmazingLemur41 (
talk)
21:48, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
- Editor is a
WP:SPA, possibly the driver himself.
scope_creep
Talk
20:06, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
-
WP:NMOTORSPORT is the latest notability policy, not a guideline. It was updated recently after the recent RFC, this year and it applies here per consensus.
scope_creep
Talk
08:42, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
-
WP:NSPORT says very clearly that
"This page documents an English Wikipedia notability guideline."
Writing as someone who fully supported the updated NMOTORSPORTS guidelines, WP:GNG still takes precedence. If GNG is met then it doesn't matter if they're a track day hobbyist who runs a few club races every now and then or a multiple-time professional-level champion. Tagging SPAs is one thing, but instantly accusing them of such an egregious COI with no evidence to back it up is not a good way to sway people. I wouldn't even call that editor an SPA. - "Ghost of Dan Gurney" ( work / talk) 12:54, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
-
WP:NSPORT says very clearly that
- Keep - WP:GNG is met with SIGCOV in Autosport and Formula Scout. Nominator gets a TROUT for their gross accusations of COI towards AmazingLemur41. - "Ghost of Dan Gurney" ( work / talk) 13:03, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
- Nomination Withdraw 09:45, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. (non-admin closure) ASTIG️🙃 ( ICE-T • ICE CUBE) 12:15, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Callum Voisin ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Racing driver. No indication of being notable. No significant coverage. Fails WP:BIO. WP:SIGCOV. scope_creep Talk 11:16, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Motorsport, Switzerland, and United Kingdom. 5225C ( talk • contributions) 11:28, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
- Keep Whilst his career in cars has been very short, there are multiple decent references where he is the subject (I have replaced some of the references with more in-depth, independent sources). He was also a nominee for the Autosport BRDC Award and thus written about by Autosport. He won several times in GB3 this year and finished high in the championship. Although it’s more of a weak keep for me, and it’s bordering on WP:TOOSOON, I think it is worth keeping based on the few decent sources such as the Autosport article and Scout Report: Callum Voisin, plus that he was quite successful in GB3 this year with a lot of potential for next year and longer. It seems like if this article were to be deleted it would end up being created again not long in the future, which hence seems like a bit of a waste to delete this article. DRYT.Motorsport ( talk) 10:29, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
- Keep per the points above. Autosport, Formula Scout, and The Checkered Flag all have coverage. As well, I strongly disagree with the assertion that there's a lack of significant coverage. Although it is an interview (and the definition of independence for those has been debated), 1 is another long source for coverage of his career. SmackJam ( talk) 20:11, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
- Comment The driver has won a few races but I don't see him winning any kind racing series. How can he be notable? The notability criteria per WP:NSPORT is WP:NMOTORSPORT. I don't see any reference that satisfy any of the 9 criteria on WP:NMOTORSPORT. The simple reason for that is that it is very very early career, and the subject is non-notable. scope_creep Talk 18:37, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
- Delete - WP:TOOSOON for an article. The Autosport source only gives a very brief piece of coverage to this article's subject, nowhere near enough to be considered WP:SIGCOV. The other sources either appear to be non-independent from a notability guideline perspective or are coverage of events that this person happens to have participated in with only WP:ROUTINE coverage of Voisin. Many of these sources are also of questionable reliability, perhaps not enough to exclude their usage anywhere on Wikipedia, but certainly enough that we should be wary of their use in a WP:BLP of such a young subject. HumanBodyPiloter5 ( talk) 18:26, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
- Keep Points mentioned above show that this is a bit early, but coverage is there and there is likely to be more in the future. A bit soon but should be kept. AmazingLemur41 ( talk) 20:00, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
- Editor is a
WP:SPA, possibly the driver himself.
scope_creep
Talk
20:06, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
- Dude I’m not? I’ve literally made multiple edits before, I don’t use Wikipedia that often because there are never that many edits which need doing, but I don’t see how you could think that. Am I supposed to have a certain number of edits to reply on these? Not that I can see, I really don’t understand what makes you say that.
AmazingLemur41 (
talk)
21:48, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
- Mate, you have seven edits to Wikipedia. Certainly anybody can come in to edit Wikipedia, but when you come to Afd and say the person is notable, when he has only won three races. That makes me think that your trying to buffalo and subvert the Afd, when there is absolutely zero evidence the guy is notable.
scope_creep
Talk
21:52, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
- Putting all that aside, race wins are not necessary in-and-of themselves to establish notability. A driver could hypothetically be notable for having some sort of spectacular lack of victories, WP:NMOTORSPORT is just a guideline which indicates which what drivers are highly likely to be notable (to such an extent that nominating such articles for deletion would be likely to be considered a waste of everybody's time), and competing in GB3 comes nowhere near the bar set there so we just need to consider the WP:GNG. The issue here is whether Voisin has received significant coverage in independent, reliable sources. Personally I think that bar is not met (bearing in mind that many of the sources may provide significant coverage of the events Voisin has competed in, but the coverage of Voisin appears to still be WP:ROUTINE). I should be clear that I generally set a high bar for WP:SIGCOV when it comes to WP:BLPs of WP:MINORs, as defamatory vandalism is a potentially serious concern and may not be picked up on promptly by good-faith editors before it causes some sort of harm. HumanBodyPiloter5 ( talk) 00:18, 20 December 2022 (UTC) HumanBodyPiloter5 ( talk) 00:20, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
- Mate, you have seven edits to Wikipedia. Certainly anybody can come in to edit Wikipedia, but when you come to Afd and say the person is notable, when he has only won three races. That makes me think that your trying to buffalo and subvert the Afd, when there is absolutely zero evidence the guy is notable.
scope_creep
Talk
21:52, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
- Dude I’m not? I’ve literally made multiple edits before, I don’t use Wikipedia that often because there are never that many edits which need doing, but I don’t see how you could think that. Am I supposed to have a certain number of edits to reply on these? Not that I can see, I really don’t understand what makes you say that.
AmazingLemur41 (
talk)
21:48, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
- Editor is a
WP:SPA, possibly the driver himself.
scope_creep
Talk
20:06, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
-
WP:NMOTORSPORT is the latest notability policy, not a guideline. It was updated recently after the recent RFC, this year and it applies here per consensus.
scope_creep
Talk
08:42, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
-
WP:NSPORT says very clearly that
"This page documents an English Wikipedia notability guideline."
Writing as someone who fully supported the updated NMOTORSPORTS guidelines, WP:GNG still takes precedence. If GNG is met then it doesn't matter if they're a track day hobbyist who runs a few club races every now and then or a multiple-time professional-level champion. Tagging SPAs is one thing, but instantly accusing them of such an egregious COI with no evidence to back it up is not a good way to sway people. I wouldn't even call that editor an SPA. - "Ghost of Dan Gurney" ( work / talk) 12:54, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
-
WP:NSPORT says very clearly that
- Keep - WP:GNG is met with SIGCOV in Autosport and Formula Scout. Nominator gets a TROUT for their gross accusations of COI towards AmazingLemur41. - "Ghost of Dan Gurney" ( work / talk) 13:03, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
- Nomination Withdraw 09:45, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.