- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Spartaz Humbug! 15:09, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Ava Bahram ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Notability ahuR ☘ 21:29, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. North America 1000 21:40, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Iran-related deletion discussions. North America 1000 21:40, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 03:23, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
- Delete a non-notable singer. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 14:59, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
- hello please look at the article No:10,11 and 12 of WP:MUSICBIO, she has this point of policy Pocoyo4858 ( talk) 02:08, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- Delete - First, the nominator is advised to see WP:JNN as an AfD might get more community participation with a more descriptive argument on why the article has been nominated. Anyway, this singer has no significant and reliable coverage as required under the notability rules for singers. This is true for both the western version of her name and the native version لیلا بسحق , both of which only appear in the typical social media and streaming services. --- DOOMSDAYER520 ( Talk| Contribs) 02:17, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
- Hello, I found two reputable sources, one is the interview and performance of Ava Bahram on BBC TV and the other is the interview and live performance of Ava Bahram on Manoto TV. Of course, I tried to insert the link of websites for you here, but unfortunately it was not possible, But with the same titles available. Because she has migrated outside of Iran due to the ban on women's singing in the Islamic Republic of Iran, she is merely the only sources available on radio and television and reputable websites outside of Iran to cover their activities. Thank you. Zabihsohrabi ( talk) 22:42, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
- Hello, I have re-read your comments, 3 of Ava Bahram's songs with the letters "Roozhaye Tanhaei", "Agooshe To" and "Gol ya Pooch" have been broadcasted in the Gem TV channels in the 3 years and got a megahit. please Attention considering that by Islamic laws it is forbidden for female singers to broadcast their voices on the national television of the Islamic Republic of Iran , and in this regard their songs have been broadcasted on Gem TV channels and others Persian-language satellite TV channels, such as PMC, Radio Javan, and others. so there are good reasons. I researched this in the case of other Iranian female singer who also have an article. Please check, thank you Zabihsohrabi ( talk) 23:23, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
- Comment - There have been several recent AfDs for Iranian entertainers (musicians, models, etc.) in which supporters are making the argument that we see here. Per that argument, the entertainers have no media coverage in their home country because of government repression, and therefore the entertainers are little-known in the rest of the world too. I have no doubt that this is happening and it is certainly unfortunate, but that is a problem that is much bigger than Wikipedia, and Wikipedia is not equipped to fix it. The larger problem could be discussed at Censorship in Iran, among other possibilities, but helping to promote unlucky entertainers is not one of Wikipedia's functions. --- DOOMSDAYER520 ( Talk| Contribs) 13:49, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
- undelete Ava Bahram is famous in the Iranian community inside and outside the country. Unfortunately, female artists in Iran after the Islamic Revolution are censored in newspapers, magazines and other domestic media due to censorship and restrictions imposed by the laws of the Islamic Republic of Iran, and for this reason they emigrate from Iran. And their only media is satellite TV channels and social media outside of Iran. Pocoyo4858 ( talk) 01:16, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- hello, I totally agree with you that in this particular case it seems that there is a need to revise the Wikipedia guidelines. It should be discussed with managers. Zabihsohrabi ( talk) 12:58, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- Undelete a notable singer and she is famous artist in iranian community. Pocoyo4858 ( talk) 01:11, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- See the Wikipedia policies WP:MUSICBIO and WP:JNN. Just saying she is famous does not matter. --- DOOMSDAYER520 ( Talk| Contribs) 01:18, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- hello please look at the article No:10,11 and 12 of WP:MUSICBIO, she has this point of policy Pocoyo4858 ( talk) 01:28, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- new sources Hi, I found new sources and added them to the Ava Bahram article reference (sources 4 and 5). These sources are the two official news agencies of Iran and show the well-known notability rules issue of Ava Bahram birth name لیلا بسحق before emigrating from Iran. And she was known as a pop music activist. Please consider. Zabihsohrabi ( talk) 23:32, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- new sources Hi, I found new source and added it(Joint concert performance with Emele Sayin in 2018 İstanbul) to the Ava Bahram article reference (source no 13). Zabihsohrabi ( talk) 14:44, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
- Delete Having gone through the first block of references I don't much confirms notability. There is no block of secondary refs, that should be there, to establish notability. scope_creep Talk 09:17, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Spartaz Humbug! 15:09, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Ava Bahram ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Notability ahuR ☘ 21:29, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. North America 1000 21:40, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Iran-related deletion discussions. North America 1000 21:40, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 03:23, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
- Delete a non-notable singer. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 14:59, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
- hello please look at the article No:10,11 and 12 of WP:MUSICBIO, she has this point of policy Pocoyo4858 ( talk) 02:08, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- Delete - First, the nominator is advised to see WP:JNN as an AfD might get more community participation with a more descriptive argument on why the article has been nominated. Anyway, this singer has no significant and reliable coverage as required under the notability rules for singers. This is true for both the western version of her name and the native version لیلا بسحق , both of which only appear in the typical social media and streaming services. --- DOOMSDAYER520 ( Talk| Contribs) 02:17, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
- Hello, I found two reputable sources, one is the interview and performance of Ava Bahram on BBC TV and the other is the interview and live performance of Ava Bahram on Manoto TV. Of course, I tried to insert the link of websites for you here, but unfortunately it was not possible, But with the same titles available. Because she has migrated outside of Iran due to the ban on women's singing in the Islamic Republic of Iran, she is merely the only sources available on radio and television and reputable websites outside of Iran to cover their activities. Thank you. Zabihsohrabi ( talk) 22:42, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
- Hello, I have re-read your comments, 3 of Ava Bahram's songs with the letters "Roozhaye Tanhaei", "Agooshe To" and "Gol ya Pooch" have been broadcasted in the Gem TV channels in the 3 years and got a megahit. please Attention considering that by Islamic laws it is forbidden for female singers to broadcast their voices on the national television of the Islamic Republic of Iran , and in this regard their songs have been broadcasted on Gem TV channels and others Persian-language satellite TV channels, such as PMC, Radio Javan, and others. so there are good reasons. I researched this in the case of other Iranian female singer who also have an article. Please check, thank you Zabihsohrabi ( talk) 23:23, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
- Comment - There have been several recent AfDs for Iranian entertainers (musicians, models, etc.) in which supporters are making the argument that we see here. Per that argument, the entertainers have no media coverage in their home country because of government repression, and therefore the entertainers are little-known in the rest of the world too. I have no doubt that this is happening and it is certainly unfortunate, but that is a problem that is much bigger than Wikipedia, and Wikipedia is not equipped to fix it. The larger problem could be discussed at Censorship in Iran, among other possibilities, but helping to promote unlucky entertainers is not one of Wikipedia's functions. --- DOOMSDAYER520 ( Talk| Contribs) 13:49, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
- undelete Ava Bahram is famous in the Iranian community inside and outside the country. Unfortunately, female artists in Iran after the Islamic Revolution are censored in newspapers, magazines and other domestic media due to censorship and restrictions imposed by the laws of the Islamic Republic of Iran, and for this reason they emigrate from Iran. And their only media is satellite TV channels and social media outside of Iran. Pocoyo4858 ( talk) 01:16, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- hello, I totally agree with you that in this particular case it seems that there is a need to revise the Wikipedia guidelines. It should be discussed with managers. Zabihsohrabi ( talk) 12:58, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- Undelete a notable singer and she is famous artist in iranian community. Pocoyo4858 ( talk) 01:11, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- See the Wikipedia policies WP:MUSICBIO and WP:JNN. Just saying she is famous does not matter. --- DOOMSDAYER520 ( Talk| Contribs) 01:18, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- hello please look at the article No:10,11 and 12 of WP:MUSICBIO, she has this point of policy Pocoyo4858 ( talk) 01:28, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- new sources Hi, I found new sources and added them to the Ava Bahram article reference (sources 4 and 5). These sources are the two official news agencies of Iran and show the well-known notability rules issue of Ava Bahram birth name لیلا بسحق before emigrating from Iran. And she was known as a pop music activist. Please consider. Zabihsohrabi ( talk) 23:32, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- new sources Hi, I found new source and added it(Joint concert performance with Emele Sayin in 2018 İstanbul) to the Ava Bahram article reference (source no 13). Zabihsohrabi ( talk) 14:44, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
- Delete Having gone through the first block of references I don't much confirms notability. There is no block of secondary refs, that should be there, to establish notability. scope_creep Talk 09:17, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.