The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. There were a number of users arguing to keep, but most of them presented no policy-based arguments or sources. The one source that looked reasonable, [1] was discussed and found to be insufficient. -- RoySmith (talk) 16:53, 12 April 2018 (UTC) reply

If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is not a majority vote, but instead a discussion among Wikipedia contributors. Wikipedia has policies and guidelines regarding the encyclopedia's content, and consensus (agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments, not by counting votes. However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to assume good faith on the part of others and to sign your posts on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end. Note: Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected single-purpose accounts: {{subst: spa|username}}; suspected canvassed users: {{subst: canvassed|username}}; accounts blocked for sockpuppetry: {{subst: csm|username}} or {{subst: csp|username}}.

Amb Jogi (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)

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The subject does not appear to meet GNG.. he has got some trivial coverage from independent reliable sources such as here and here but nothing significant. The article contains OR. while language isn't relevant to our notability criteria at all but one should expect a bio on a relevant language edition of WP however in this casen no article in Urdu or even Sindhi WP.. I tried WP:BEFORE this nomination, but was unsuccessful, unfortunately. Saqib ( talk) 17:00, 27 March 2018 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. L3X1 ◊distænt write◊ 18:39, 27 March 2018 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. L3X1 ◊distænt write◊ 18:39, 27 March 2018 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Pakistan-related deletion discussions. L3X1 ◊distænt write◊ 18:39, 27 March 2018 (UTC) reply

• Strong Keep, There are sufficient references to be kept. Jogi 007 21:05, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

Please establish the notability by providing sufficient references here. -- Saqib ( talk) 21:14, 27 March 2018 (UTC) reply

SLF page 11 Music & [2], Play it here & Listen . Jogi Asad Rajpar, Talk to me 22:03, 28 March 2018 (UTC) reply

@ Saqib:, Dear, SEe this one] .... Jogi Asad Rajpar, Talk to me 22:23, 28 March 2018 (UTC) reply

You need to see WP:SOURCES which defines what count as a reliable source. -- Saqib ( talk) 10:48, 1 April 2018 (UTC) reply

• Keep, Amb Jogi is notable drum player in Sindh province. please keep this article. Arif80s ( talk) 08:30, 28 March 2018 (UTC) reply

@ Arif80s: It would be better if you establish the notability by providing sufficient references here. -- Saqib ( talk) 08:53, 28 March 2018 (UTC) reply

Dear Saqib please [ [3]] [ [4]] & [ [5]]-- Arif80s ( talk) 10:19, 28 March 2018 (UTC) reply

You've provided links to his performances, not coverage which discusses him. Trivial mention in Dawn. -- Saqib ( talk) 10:26, 28 March 2018 (UTC) reply

Dear Saqib you are not a judge, mind it. Amb Jogi is a folk performer of Sindh. If you don't know about Amb Jogi, it is question mark of your ability to judge these type of personalities. Arif80s ( talk) 11:20, 28 March 2018 (UTC) reply

@ Arif80s: You know you're making personal remarks. -- Saqib ( talk) 11:31, 28 March 2018 (UTC) reply

@ Saqib: Wikipedia is free encyclopedia, please don't take it personally. My above remarks is very reasonable. Arif80s ( talk) 11:50, 28 March 2018 (UTC) reply

No I don't think your remarks were justified. Our policy says comment on content, not on the contributor. -- Saqib ( talk) 12:58, 28 March 2018 (UTC) reply

Our policy says You are claiming that Wikipedia is your property🤔. Please clarify your position? Arif80s ( talk) 18:07, 28 March 2018 (UTC) reply

You're needlessly nitpicking on my use of words is pretty lame mate. Don't you have anything relevant to the topic to talk about?-- Saqib ( talk) 03:51, 29 March 2018 (UTC) reply

Who are you Mr. @ Saqib:? please clear your position in the light of your above comments. Arif80s ( talk) 05:10, 29 March 2018 (UTC) reply

You should assume good faith @ Arif80s:.. I said "our policy say"s not "my policy says" and the former one is not prohibited either. See this. -- Saqib ( talk) 10:39, 31 March 2018 (UTC) reply

• Keep, Article should be kept because musician has performed a lot, and he is famous in Sindh. Unfortunately, He has not been covered sufficiently by media.-- مھتاب احمد ( talk) 09:05, 28 March 2018 (UTC) reply

Existence ≠ Notability.. with a few exceptions., if someone has not received significant coverage in reliable sources, it is presumed to be not suitable for a stand-alone article on WP. -- Saqib ( talk) 09:26, 28 March 2018 (UTC) reply

• Keep He is very active in music scene. He is known and notable in sindh music. He is a rare talent, so keep this article. -- Spasage ( talk) 19:02, 28 March 2018 (UTC) reply
• Keep passes criteria 12 of WP:NMUSIC having been the subject of national television coverage, and has coverage in reliable sources Atlantic306 ( talk) 19:16, 30 March 2018 (UTC) reply

@ Atlantic306: This is not a national TV channel coverage. And the coverage in RS is passing mentions, nothing in-depth. -- Saqib ( talk) 19:30, 30 March 2018 (UTC) reply

This reliable source here confirms he has appeared on Pakistan Television Corporation, the youtube video is of something different Atlantic306 ( talk) 09:50, 1 April 2018 (UTC) reply

@ Atlantic306: I think you misinterpreted. Dawn price says "the Pakistan Broadcasting Corporation arranged a benefit concert in Ms Shaikh’s honour at the Hyderabad station of the PBC" so it does not passes criteria 12 of WP:NMUSIC.. criteria 12 says "Has been a featured subject of a substantial broadcast segment across a national radio or TV network." whereas in this case the subject merely performed and was not a featured subject. Further, the programme was on-aired on Hyderabad station of PBC, not nationwide. -- Saqib ( talk) 10:03, 1 April 2018 (UTC) reply

And, 306, you are back with your regular nonsense. ~ Winged Blades ^Godric 04:02, 2 April 2018 (UTC) reply

See WP:NPA, passing a SNG criterion is not nonsense as the article refers to a different television production than the concert. Your comments at AFD are becoming abusive so please consider that bad attitude editors ruin AFD for many good faith contributors Atlantic306 ( talk) 08:44, 3 April 2018 (UTC) reply

@ Atlantic306: Please provide the TV-related passage here. -- Saqib ( talk) 08:58, 3 April 2018 (UTC) reply

The performance section mentions programmes made in Dubai, will look for sources to confirm it later, thanks Atlantic306 ( talk) 09:10, 3 April 2018 (UTC) reply

@ Atlantic306: I thought you was referring to Dawn ref which you provided above. Well if we speak of content in the article, I would say obviously made up, and no verification. On a related note, K.T.N TV is not a national TV channel and performing somewhere in a concert in Dubai is not significant. -- Saqib ( talk) 09:17, 3 April 2018 (UTC) reply

• Keep, Article should be kept because he is Notable Drum Player in Sindh. Saqib is lecturing others to assume good faith while he feels immunity from it for himself. Sugar Coating and Canvassing in Disguise here [6].-- 31.173.188.190 ( talk) 11:20, 1 April 2018 (UTC)— 31.173.188.190 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
  • If I have my way, I would make sure that all IPs, !voting on AfDs, shall be check-user-ed by default. I wonder, what the outcome will be, in that case! ~ Winged Blades ^Godric 04:02, 2 April 2018 (UTC) reply
  • I would be also kind enough to note that his notification did not violate the canvassing guidelines and am also pretty sure that I and Saqib, had not crossed our paths, significantly, ever before. ~ Winged Blades ^Godric 04:07, 2 April 2018 (UTC) reply
• Delete-- Zero non-significant coverage in reliable sources.I'm afraid that none of the the participants over here, which may include socks/meats, have no tangential idea about what constitutes a reliable source and what arguments are completely discountable at AfDs. ~ Winged Blades ^Godric 04:02, 2 April 2018 (UTC)As, described above, in my reply to the IP, I was alerted of this AfD, at my talk-page, which consisted of a notification, IMO, sufficiently neutral, to not fell afoul of our canvassing guidelines and neither have I and Saqib, crossed our paths, significantly, ever before. reply
• Comment, Please allow this discussion some more time, I am working to find more reliable sources and trying to resolve the concerns raised regarding reliable sources and notability...Thanks... Jogi Asad Rajpar, Talk to me 09:04, 2 April 2018 (UTC) reply
• Note for closing admin Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive980#Possible_issues_at_AfD . -- Saqib ( talk) 05:20, 4 April 2018 (UTC) reply

• Delete clearly not enough to meet GNG; the one reference is fairly trivial and refers to him as "Ustad Amb Jogi". The only additional content I find is a few Youtube videos by the subject. power~enwiki ( π, ν) 03:10, 8 April 2018 (UTC) reply
• Delete Insufficient sourcing to establish notability, and I can't find anything better. This may be a search bubble issue (I'm not going to find things that require Hindi search terms) but unless some of the defenders above can provide such sources, they have to be treated as nonexistent. -- Elmidae ( talk · contribs) 19:09, 8 April 2018 (UTC) reply
• Delete - per lack of references to establish any kind of notability. London Hall ( talk) 19:22, 11 April 2018 (UTC) reply
• Delete, fails our guidelines for musicians, despite the "rare talent" and other things claimed by his sock army rather suspiciously enthusiastic group of supporters. We're a bit wary here of claims that WP:THEREMUSTBESOURCES, as many articles kept on those grounds are just deleted a few months later when the promised sources (shockingly!) never show up. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 14:39, 12 April 2018 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.