The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
There's sources in the article. You seem to have just nominated it because of my edit to South normanton. It is able to be kept maybe read the Built up articles discussion on WikiGeography? Nomis site is reliable in it is an official stats site and this can be kept as it was in a discussion on the page. Maybe head there before AfD nomination and claiming original research? — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
RailwayJG (
talk •
contribs) 2021-04-17T20:26:09 (UTC)
Delete This fails
WP:GEOLAND as a non-notable census tract. These “Built-Up Areas” were auto-generated and auto-named by the ONS for the purpose of analysing census data (
[1]). There has been no wider uptake of this term, nor any in-depth discussion in reliable sources, so it also fails
WP:GNG.—--
Pontificalibus20:38, 17 April 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep its not a census tract, census tracts are arbitrary parts of districts that have a number and letter attached to them (
example) but this is a named geographical census area and unlike many such as
Grimsby built-up area that can be merged into their single location this is a BUA named after multiple so probably shouldn't be merged. Crouch, Swale (
talk)
20:53, 17 April 2021 (UTC)reply
I suppose I meant census area rather than tract in its narrow sense. The point is this is some auto-generated thing that has zero notability and fails all our notability guidelines. Can you give any sources that demonstrate a human rather than a bot regards this as a built-up area, let alone any sources featuring actual discussion of said area rather than simple statistics? Just because there isn’t a merge target doesn’t mean there is any valid rationale for keeping it. --
Pontificalibus21:03, 17 April 2021 (UTC)reply
As NOMIS notes in the guide the locations are checked and some are removed such as industrial areas. In this case its auto generated which is surely more reliable! especially since modifications are made to improve the accuracy etc. The question is if an ONS BUA qualifies as being "legally recognized" for the purpose of GEOLAND? Crouch, Swale (
talk)
16:49, 18 April 2021 (UTC)reply
I think the content belongs in the articles about the places in the area, but the American and Chinese equivalents were kept based on similar sources.
Peter James (
talk)
17:06, 18 April 2021 (UTC)reply
This area is considerably smaller than all those American and Chinese ones though, at least the ones linked below. Also I'd like to point out I'm not a strong supporter of deletion, and think we should have articles on larger UK Built-up areas.
Eopsid (
talk)
19:27, 18 April 2021 (UTC)reply
I don't particularly like those articles because they only have one source and dont have much information in. But you are winning me round to the idea of keeping this article.
Eopsid (
talk)
18:31, 19 April 2021 (UTC)reply
weak delete - I would support a merge, but theres like three obvious merge targets. I think we should delete but make mention of this built-up area in all the towns inside it:
South Normanton,
Alfreton amongst others. Its quite a loose conurbation of industrial villages connected by a large industrial estate, I think we'd struggle to find a source except the ONS one. I'm not familiar with the area though, maybe it has a different local name which does have more sources.
Eopsid (
talk)
22:17, 17 April 2021 (UTC)reply
I can only report the things that I found by the names that I found them. If you think those names contrived, you should take that up with the people who wrote the books. Good luck, as I believe that the author of Bulmer's History, Topography, and Directory of Derbyshire is dead. ☺
Uncle G (
talk)
00:46, 20 April 2021 (UTC)reply
Eopsid the fact is you would not have created the redirect unless prompted by the redlink created by Uncle G (based on an entry in a pre-1900 gazeteer, I understand) a few minutes beforehand. And of course readers will be queueing to search for 130-year-old terms. I did try to look at the gazeteer but wouldn't load.--
Rocknrollmancer (
talk)
00:14, 28 April 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment - whilst I agree with deletion. I dispute that this article is Original Research, it is sourced
[2]. Although I would consider that a primary source and not enough for
WP:SIGCOVEopsid (
talk)
08:09, 20 April 2021 (UTC)reply
Agree I'm not sure where OR came from (unless you're talking about the places it contains) but the source does arguably make it a legally recognized place. Crouch, Swale (
talk)
17:14, 25 April 2021 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
There's sources in the article. You seem to have just nominated it because of my edit to South normanton. It is able to be kept maybe read the Built up articles discussion on WikiGeography? Nomis site is reliable in it is an official stats site and this can be kept as it was in a discussion on the page. Maybe head there before AfD nomination and claiming original research? — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
RailwayJG (
talk •
contribs) 2021-04-17T20:26:09 (UTC)
Delete This fails
WP:GEOLAND as a non-notable census tract. These “Built-Up Areas” were auto-generated and auto-named by the ONS for the purpose of analysing census data (
[1]). There has been no wider uptake of this term, nor any in-depth discussion in reliable sources, so it also fails
WP:GNG.—--
Pontificalibus20:38, 17 April 2021 (UTC)reply
Keep its not a census tract, census tracts are arbitrary parts of districts that have a number and letter attached to them (
example) but this is a named geographical census area and unlike many such as
Grimsby built-up area that can be merged into their single location this is a BUA named after multiple so probably shouldn't be merged. Crouch, Swale (
talk)
20:53, 17 April 2021 (UTC)reply
I suppose I meant census area rather than tract in its narrow sense. The point is this is some auto-generated thing that has zero notability and fails all our notability guidelines. Can you give any sources that demonstrate a human rather than a bot regards this as a built-up area, let alone any sources featuring actual discussion of said area rather than simple statistics? Just because there isn’t a merge target doesn’t mean there is any valid rationale for keeping it. --
Pontificalibus21:03, 17 April 2021 (UTC)reply
As NOMIS notes in the guide the locations are checked and some are removed such as industrial areas. In this case its auto generated which is surely more reliable! especially since modifications are made to improve the accuracy etc. The question is if an ONS BUA qualifies as being "legally recognized" for the purpose of GEOLAND? Crouch, Swale (
talk)
16:49, 18 April 2021 (UTC)reply
I think the content belongs in the articles about the places in the area, but the American and Chinese equivalents were kept based on similar sources.
Peter James (
talk)
17:06, 18 April 2021 (UTC)reply
This area is considerably smaller than all those American and Chinese ones though, at least the ones linked below. Also I'd like to point out I'm not a strong supporter of deletion, and think we should have articles on larger UK Built-up areas.
Eopsid (
talk)
19:27, 18 April 2021 (UTC)reply
I don't particularly like those articles because they only have one source and dont have much information in. But you are winning me round to the idea of keeping this article.
Eopsid (
talk)
18:31, 19 April 2021 (UTC)reply
weak delete - I would support a merge, but theres like three obvious merge targets. I think we should delete but make mention of this built-up area in all the towns inside it:
South Normanton,
Alfreton amongst others. Its quite a loose conurbation of industrial villages connected by a large industrial estate, I think we'd struggle to find a source except the ONS one. I'm not familiar with the area though, maybe it has a different local name which does have more sources.
Eopsid (
talk)
22:17, 17 April 2021 (UTC)reply
I can only report the things that I found by the names that I found them. If you think those names contrived, you should take that up with the people who wrote the books. Good luck, as I believe that the author of Bulmer's History, Topography, and Directory of Derbyshire is dead. ☺
Uncle G (
talk)
00:46, 20 April 2021 (UTC)reply
Eopsid the fact is you would not have created the redirect unless prompted by the redlink created by Uncle G (based on an entry in a pre-1900 gazeteer, I understand) a few minutes beforehand. And of course readers will be queueing to search for 130-year-old terms. I did try to look at the gazeteer but wouldn't load.--
Rocknrollmancer (
talk)
00:14, 28 April 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment - whilst I agree with deletion. I dispute that this article is Original Research, it is sourced
[2]. Although I would consider that a primary source and not enough for
WP:SIGCOVEopsid (
talk)
08:09, 20 April 2021 (UTC)reply
Agree I'm not sure where OR came from (unless you're talking about the places it contains) but the source does arguably make it a legally recognized place. Crouch, Swale (
talk)
17:14, 25 April 2021 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.