The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. A relatively close call, but given the trend of the discussion as additional sources were found, this looks more like a keep than no consensus. RL0919 ( talk) 17:38, 10 January 2022 (UTC) reply

Alexa Junge (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)

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Only reference is IMDb. Significant coverage from independent sources is not easily found. GoingBatty ( talk) 16:39, 15 December 2021 (UTC) reply

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. GoingBatty ( talk) 16:39, 15 December 2021 (UTC) reply
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. GoingBatty ( talk) 16:39, 15 December 2021 (UTC) reply
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. GoingBatty ( talk) 16:39, 15 December 2021 (UTC) reply
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. GoingBatty ( talk) 16:39, 15 December 2021 (UTC) reply
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU ^(T) 17:01, 15 December 2021 (UTC) reply
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU ^(T) 17:02, 15 December 2021 (UTC) reply
• Delete Many hits in GNews about her writing on friends, but most are just quotes or one or two line statements. Nothing to establish notability. Oaktree b ( talk) 01:27, 16 December 2021 (UTC) reply
• Delete: as above, many hits on Twitter and LinkedIn, all user generated sources. Nothing verifiable. -- Whiteguru ( talk) 02:59, 16 December 2021 (UTC) reply
  • I believe the WP:V problem you raised has now been addressed with the sources added by Kpdow360. pburka ( talk) 23:21, 20 December 2021 (UTC) reply
• Keep. At the very least, her play, Fingersmith, is notable ( Boston Globe, Variety, WBUR), and there's independent coverage of her screenwriting (e.g. Marie Clare). pburka ( talk) 17:22, 16 December 2021 (UTC) reply
  • @ Pburka: There may be enough independent reliable sources for an article about Fingersmith, but we're looking for significant coverage about her. The Marie Claire article isn't about her writing - it's an anecdote where she objected to someone else's writing and was ignored. GoingBatty ( talk) 23:16, 16 December 2021 (UTC) reply
    • We could move and rework the page as you suggest, but then Fingersmith (play) might well become a WP:COATRACK for additional information about her newsworthy career and we'd have WP:BLP page masquerading as a play. Far better to keep it all on this page, in my opinion. pburka ( talk) 22:40, 17 December 2021 (UTC) reply
      • @ Pburka: Note that I did not suggest you could "move and rework the page" into an an article about Fingersmith. I simply meant that you may be able to use the references you provided to create a separate article about Fingersmith, regardless of what happens with the article about Junge. Happy editing! GoingBatty ( talk) 02:11, 18 December 2021 (UTC) reply
        • Having an article about the play and another article about the playwright seems excessive at this time. If we had both I'd support merging them; since we don't, let's just maintain the status quo. pburka ( talk) 22:06, 19 December 2021 (UTC) reply
          • @ Pburka: I see you have now created an article called Fingersmith (play). GoingBatty ( talk) 04:55, 22 December 2021 (UTC) reply
• Keep. She has been nominated for four Emmy awards which is verified by the television academy ^[1]. There's independent coverage of her accomplishments and contributions in screenwriting by trade publications (e.g. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/showtime-picks-up-tara-113150/) and in other reputable publications (e.g. https://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/arts/television/11mcdo.html) -- Kpdow360 ( talk) 21:58, 16 December 2021 (UTC) Note to reviewers This is a new account and this editor has only edited this AfD and the nominated article reply

• • @ Kpdow360: I'm glad you're adding references to the article, but noticed you haven't added the references above to the article. Footnote #1 should be placed after the sentence(s) it supports. The Hollywood Reporter article is a passing mention of Junge, not significant coverage. I hope the NYT article has more about Junge. Happy editing! GoingBatty ( talk) 23:25, 16 December 2021 (UTC) reply
• Delete: Lacking in substance and doesn't satisfy WP:GNG MaskedSinger ( talk) 18:43, 20 December 2021 (UTC) reply
  • "Lacking in substance" isn't a meaningful deletion argument. pburka ( talk) 23:19, 20 December 2021 (UTC) reply
    • Concur with Pburka there; the question isn't about the quality of the article, but rather whether the subject is sufficiently notable to merit an article at all. Many articles on notable people began as stubs or starter articles, or initially were lengthy but poorly written or full of copyright violations — e.g., the Lupe Ontiveros article was one long copyvio when I first read it, to the point I practically had to start from scratch to edit it, but she's still notable.
• Delete - I'm not convinced this subject merits its own article. While there are plenty of passing mentions of her about the relationship between Julia Roberts and Matthew Perry, everything else is either about her play Fingersmith (which is great, but, it's also localized coverage. It's not like it's a nationally recognized play and her name is only mentioned in passing as the writer) or a primary source mentioning her and 249082093843 other people were nominated for Friends in the Golden Globes and Emmy's. When a TV show is nominated, everyone and their mother is included in that nomination who worked on the show. I'm not convinced she merits inclusion. Doesn't qualify for WP:GNG, IMHO. Missvain ( talk) 18:05, 21 December 2021 (UTC) reply

  I don't think Variety is local coverage and the Boston Globe is a major newspaper (although technically local). Regarding the Emmys, she was nominated by herself in 1999. Her other nominations were all groups. pburka ( talk) 19:24, 21 December 2021 (UTC) reply

  @ Pburka: The Variety and Boston Globe articles are not significant coverage of Junge - they just mention her as the writer. The Boston Globe article has not been added to the article. You might want to update the article to specify which award nominations were groups versus solo nominations. Happy editing! GoingBatty ( talk) 22:31, 21 December 2021 (UTC) reply

I know the Globe and Variety aren't local - I'm a journalist who has written for many national publications and I have friends who work at both...I should have wrote originally "localized or trivial mentions." But, it's passing and doesn't qualify for GNG nor am I convinced she's got enough coverage to build WP:BASIC. So...still delete. Missvain ( talk) 17:50, 22 December 2021 (UTC) reply

• Keep. (1) Those of us granted access to Wikipedia Library — or whatever you call that project where Wikipedia gives some editors the opportunity to access databases that normally might be accessible only by paying a subscription fee — can find more articles, such as the Jan/Feb 2017 issue of The Dramatist, official bimonthly publication of The Dramatists Guild, in which Junge was the interviewee for a two-page feature that concludes with mention of Fingersmith then notes, "Her plays and musicals have been produced at the Goodspeed Opera House, Studio Arena Theater, Playwrights Horizons Lab, Theaterworks and developed at New York Stage and Film, the Hedgebrook Women Playwrights Festival, MacDowell and Djerassi colonies. TV work includes Friends , Sex and the City, West Wing, Big Love, United States of Tara, Grace and Frankie, among others." Both the fact of the interview in a nationally-known publication and the venues where her work has been performed suggest notability. (2) Her work writing the fifth-season TWW episode "The Supremes" received praise at the time and still is mentioned for its excellence. Even when the subject is how that first post-Sorkin season sucked, her writing of that episode is singled out for praise, as when 'Decider' wrote, "Which isn’t to say that the season didn’t have its moments. The Glenn Close-starring episode 'The Supremes' might be one of the show’s best. ... There were some fun comedy bits along the way — not surprising since the episode was written by Friends vet Alexa Junge... ." (Bob Reid, 3 March 2016, more than a decade later)."Disaster Relief" was rewarded with an Emmy nomination for Junge and her co-writer. The popular podcast West Wing Weekly interviewed her when they covered the s5 episode "Disaster Relief," which she'd co-written. This is a podcast sufficiently well-known and popular that people traveled to DC and paid money to attend live tapings. (For anyone wondering why I don't add this info into the article, I plan to, as soon as I'm done posting this contribution to the discussion; already had to retype it once when I accidentally hit the back button!)

Update Struck through a quote erroneously crediting Junge with a different episode written by Deborah Cahn. (lwt)

(3) Here's an item from Hollywood Reporter that indicates not only did Junge write episodes for Tara, without Junge as an EP, the show might never have gotten on the air. Writing about Junge's decision to depart: "Alexa Junge, the executive producer/ showrunner of Showtime's "United States of Tara," has decided not to continue on the series, which recently was renewed for a second season.

"Bringing Friends alumna Junge on board was key to securing a series order for Tara, created by Oscar winner Diablo Cody. ... Junge penned three episodes, the last of which airs Sunday." (Nellie Andreevna. “Family ties strong for Roseanne; Junge steps aside as 'Tara' topper" Andreeva, Nellie, Hollywood Reporter, 00183660, 23 March 2009, Vol. 409, Issue 4, page not given.) Lawikitejana ( talk) 03:20, 23 December 2021 (UTC) P.S. Thanks for the heads-up, User:GoingBatty. reply

@ Lawikitejana: It's great that you're using your access to the Wikipedia Library to find more articles. Remember that the basic notability criteria states "People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject." Interviews by definition are not independent of the subject, but the interviews may also have good information in the interviewer's words. I look forward to seeing you continue to add references to the article. Keep up the good work! GoingBatty ( talk) 03:59, 23 December 2021 (UTC) reply

@ GoingBatty:

Point taken, although "independent of the subject" is more about things like not using press releases from someone's own company, or possibly articles published by an outlet that is part of the same parent (e.g., one could argue about independence when CBS reports on someone's publication with Simon & Schuster, which is owned by the same company), or possibly a White House press secretary's statement as evidence of what a president did or didn't do. Where I do think you have a point would be if I took something in the interview as proof of anything that needs supported by a secondary source. In this case, however, the interview was offered simply as evidence either that (a) she's sufficiently significant to The Dramatists Guild as a writer that they picked her from among the scores of playwrights they could have profiled or as a more reliable source than IMDb as to her credits, particularly apart from film/TV. Reminder appreciated nonetheless. Lawikitejana ( talk) 06:05, 23 December 2021 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 09:26, 23 December 2021 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 12:29, 30 December 2021 (UTC) reply

• Keep This article has been greatly improved since it was initially nominated and I hope the good work continues. Passes WP:NAUTHOR. Bondegezou ( talk) 22:33, 30 December 2021 (UTC) reply
• Keep. Kudos to Lawikitejana and Thelarrydoyle and others who saved this article by finding sources to establish notability. BBQboffin ( talk) 01:32, 1 January 2022 (UTC) reply
• Keep The article has been improved a lot (and sources about a writer's work do count towards their notability). BuySomeApples ( talk) 08:18, 10 January 2022 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.