This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Here, I did add this:
According to David Millis, the myth of Canadian victory in the war was created by the reactionary elites of Upper Canada such as the Family Compact long after the war ended. Most people in Upper Canada were late Loyalists, i.e. economic migrants from the United States, the United Empire Loyalists were not a distinct group, about 10% of the Loyalists were slaves and most residents did not care who won the war and did not participate in it. The Family Compact disenfranchised most residents of Upper Canada after the war, with the idea of loyalty being used to justify the suppression of dissent. Millis argues that the myth was invented for immigrants who arrived after the end of the Napoleonic Wars.
Could you please copy edit that, reword it if there is any error, add pages, etc.? Thank you. :-)-- Davide King ( talk) 09:21, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
Thank you again.-- Davide King ( talk) 23:25, 26 July 2020 (UTC)In recent decades, the consensus among historians has been that the war ended in a draw[304][failed verification][305][failed verification][306][failed verification][307] or stalemate,[5][6] with the Treaty of Ghent closing a war that had become militarily inconclusive.[308]
This does not sound like the British win viewpoint is significant as argued by Deathlibrarian, it is just a few scholars holding that position, but you noted many times consensus does not mean or imply unanimity and it is not unusual for academics hold different positions and still have a consensus. Davide King ( talk) 03:30, 31 July 2020 (UTC)The War of 1812 does not have a clear winner, and as a result historians have debated the conflict's outcome for nearly two centuries. Canadian historian Wesley Turned suggested that both the United States and Britain won the war, while Henry Adams came close to suggesting that both sides lost. Most historians, however, have taken a middle position, arguing that the war actually ended in a draw. Yet the fighting along the Gulf Coast ended in a clear U.S. victory with the young republic in the ascendency. By the time the fighting had concluded, American forces had defeated the Creek Indians at Horseshoe Bend, Spanish forces in Pensacola, Florida, the British Navy at Fort Bowyer, and British-trained Peninsula veterans at New Orleans.
As Sylvia L. Hilton and I showed in Nexus of Empire: Negotiating Loyalty and Identity in the Revolutionary Borderlands, 1760s–1820s, the United States also had solidified its hold over Louisiana by incorporating the French and Spanish inhabitants into American society; broken Native American power in the Southeast and forced the Indians to agree to a treaty that relinquished millions of acres of territory; exposed Spanish weakness that resulted by 1821 in the American acquisition of the Florida peninsula; and reinforced the institution of slavery by suppressing insurrections, demanding the British return of black refugees, and destroying the British-build, British-provisioned Negro Fort of the Apalachicola River. By the time the fighting ended, the United States had asserted unquestioned federal control over all lands between Mobile Bay and the Sabine River, and within six years would secure the entire Florida Peninsula. So while War of 1812 historian Donald R. Hickey has maintained in Don't Give up the Ship! that the United States lost the War of 1812, this was surely not the case along the Gulf Coast.
Please stop with the snide references to Ontario. They are ill-founded and I can't argue the point further without outing myself, which could conceivably be dangerous to me or to my family, given some of the articles I work on. It is certainly not something I wish to risk in order to explain Canadian history to you, especially since it has become clear that you really don't care to hear it. Apart from the danger of writing about what totalitarian regimes do not wish do have written, there are other, pettier, reasons for this policy, and you bear them out when, perhaps angry at being called out for underhandedness at the RS noticeboard, rather than notify other editors of the discussion there as I suggested, you start a discussion about deleting Canada again, perhaps hoping to anger me in turn. Please feel free to start another complaint that I am mean to you. Meanwhile, I still have not seen your sources. Elinruby ( talk) 19:52, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for substantiating that you knew all along that there was no point in providing the biographical details you were demanding, even as you claimed that they must be false because I wouldn't provide them. I don't object to some minor discussion at the time of the outburst, but repeated sneering attribution of my article improvements to some sort of provincial patriotism is simply unfounded and repeat what I have asked you to drop. That is all. Elinruby ( talk) 16:57, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
Hey, I saw your comment at WP:RSN and thought I'd ask for help here. I'm a bit unclear on the meaning of "self-published" even after going through Wikipedia:Identifying and using self-published works. I understand that blogs and forum posts are obvious examples of selfpub. I understand that articles published in predatory journals, books published by vanity press are selfpub because the publisher does little or no fact checking and/or relies on the author to do the fact checking. So it seems that in order for something to not be self-published there needs to be some people other than the author that do a meaningful overview of the author's work before publishing. Is my understanding correct?
Also what if the author and the body that does the fact checking belong to the same organization? For example, the author is a reporter in a news org, and the oversight is done by the editorial board in that very news org. Does that have any impact on the status of selfpub? VR talk 02:18, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
This edit violates the
BRD restriction in effect on that page, which reads "If an edit you make is reverted you must discuss on the talk page and wait 24 hours before reinstating your edit."
Please self-revert. –
bradv
🍁 02:08, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
Hi TFD, thanks for your edit on the talk page of Falkland Islanders, it was really helpful. I took on board your comments and searched again for more academic references to the Argentine offer of citizenship to the Falklanders and have added them to the page. All the best. -- Boynamedsue ( talk) 09:29, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Here, I did add this:
According to David Millis, the myth of Canadian victory in the war was created by the reactionary elites of Upper Canada such as the Family Compact long after the war ended. Most people in Upper Canada were late Loyalists, i.e. economic migrants from the United States, the United Empire Loyalists were not a distinct group, about 10% of the Loyalists were slaves and most residents did not care who won the war and did not participate in it. The Family Compact disenfranchised most residents of Upper Canada after the war, with the idea of loyalty being used to justify the suppression of dissent. Millis argues that the myth was invented for immigrants who arrived after the end of the Napoleonic Wars.
Could you please copy edit that, reword it if there is any error, add pages, etc.? Thank you. :-)-- Davide King ( talk) 09:21, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
Thank you again.-- Davide King ( talk) 23:25, 26 July 2020 (UTC)In recent decades, the consensus among historians has been that the war ended in a draw[304][failed verification][305][failed verification][306][failed verification][307] or stalemate,[5][6] with the Treaty of Ghent closing a war that had become militarily inconclusive.[308]
This does not sound like the British win viewpoint is significant as argued by Deathlibrarian, it is just a few scholars holding that position, but you noted many times consensus does not mean or imply unanimity and it is not unusual for academics hold different positions and still have a consensus. Davide King ( talk) 03:30, 31 July 2020 (UTC)The War of 1812 does not have a clear winner, and as a result historians have debated the conflict's outcome for nearly two centuries. Canadian historian Wesley Turned suggested that both the United States and Britain won the war, while Henry Adams came close to suggesting that both sides lost. Most historians, however, have taken a middle position, arguing that the war actually ended in a draw. Yet the fighting along the Gulf Coast ended in a clear U.S. victory with the young republic in the ascendency. By the time the fighting had concluded, American forces had defeated the Creek Indians at Horseshoe Bend, Spanish forces in Pensacola, Florida, the British Navy at Fort Bowyer, and British-trained Peninsula veterans at New Orleans.
As Sylvia L. Hilton and I showed in Nexus of Empire: Negotiating Loyalty and Identity in the Revolutionary Borderlands, 1760s–1820s, the United States also had solidified its hold over Louisiana by incorporating the French and Spanish inhabitants into American society; broken Native American power in the Southeast and forced the Indians to agree to a treaty that relinquished millions of acres of territory; exposed Spanish weakness that resulted by 1821 in the American acquisition of the Florida peninsula; and reinforced the institution of slavery by suppressing insurrections, demanding the British return of black refugees, and destroying the British-build, British-provisioned Negro Fort of the Apalachicola River. By the time the fighting ended, the United States had asserted unquestioned federal control over all lands between Mobile Bay and the Sabine River, and within six years would secure the entire Florida Peninsula. So while War of 1812 historian Donald R. Hickey has maintained in Don't Give up the Ship! that the United States lost the War of 1812, this was surely not the case along the Gulf Coast.
Please stop with the snide references to Ontario. They are ill-founded and I can't argue the point further without outing myself, which could conceivably be dangerous to me or to my family, given some of the articles I work on. It is certainly not something I wish to risk in order to explain Canadian history to you, especially since it has become clear that you really don't care to hear it. Apart from the danger of writing about what totalitarian regimes do not wish do have written, there are other, pettier, reasons for this policy, and you bear them out when, perhaps angry at being called out for underhandedness at the RS noticeboard, rather than notify other editors of the discussion there as I suggested, you start a discussion about deleting Canada again, perhaps hoping to anger me in turn. Please feel free to start another complaint that I am mean to you. Meanwhile, I still have not seen your sources. Elinruby ( talk) 19:52, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for substantiating that you knew all along that there was no point in providing the biographical details you were demanding, even as you claimed that they must be false because I wouldn't provide them. I don't object to some minor discussion at the time of the outburst, but repeated sneering attribution of my article improvements to some sort of provincial patriotism is simply unfounded and repeat what I have asked you to drop. That is all. Elinruby ( talk) 16:57, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
Hey, I saw your comment at WP:RSN and thought I'd ask for help here. I'm a bit unclear on the meaning of "self-published" even after going through Wikipedia:Identifying and using self-published works. I understand that blogs and forum posts are obvious examples of selfpub. I understand that articles published in predatory journals, books published by vanity press are selfpub because the publisher does little or no fact checking and/or relies on the author to do the fact checking. So it seems that in order for something to not be self-published there needs to be some people other than the author that do a meaningful overview of the author's work before publishing. Is my understanding correct?
Also what if the author and the body that does the fact checking belong to the same organization? For example, the author is a reporter in a news org, and the oversight is done by the editorial board in that very news org. Does that have any impact on the status of selfpub? VR talk 02:18, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
This edit violates the
BRD restriction in effect on that page, which reads "If an edit you make is reverted you must discuss on the talk page and wait 24 hours before reinstating your edit."
Please self-revert. –
bradv
🍁 02:08, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
Hi TFD, thanks for your edit on the talk page of Falkland Islanders, it was really helpful. I took on board your comments and searched again for more academic references to the Argentine offer of citizenship to the Falklanders and have added them to the page. All the best. -- Boynamedsue ( talk) 09:29, 31 August 2020 (UTC)