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Welcome
Hello, Ilir pz, and
welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for
your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the Wikipedia Boot Camp, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type {{helpme}} on your user page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Here are a few good links for newcomers:
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help pages, add a question to the
village pump or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome!
Kukini 14:13, 10 March 2006 (UTC)reply
EDIT WAR
If you violate the
three revert rule, sysops may block you for up to 24 hours. -
Asterion 20:24, 11 March 2006 (UTC)reply
Oh no, what will I do then? please don't as there is no other way to come about that afterwards. Please, please!!! :) Thanks for the remark, I will try to do that in a 24hr+1min fashion. Just like those who revert it every time. :)
Please forgive me, Asterion, I will not repeat my mistake again :))))
Ilir pz 00:29, 22 March 2006 (UTC)reply
Serbophobia
Your opinion would be appriciated
here regarding deletion of the article
Serbophobia. Thanks --
Dado 20:18, 19 March 2006 (UTC)reply
Ilir, do you actually believe in what you are writing on the Kosovo page?
Gianni ita 21:55, 22 March 2006 (UTC)reply
No comments to you anymore.I don't like your cynism!
Ilir pz 13:17, 23 March 2006 (UTC)reply
Kosovo
Ilir / Ben uk / Mark ma or whatever alias you go by now. You do not own the article on Kosovo and you know that. Stop calling people vandals simply because we are trying to put the article in order and remove some of its heavy ALbanian extremist bias. Also, please learn some geography, as Andalusia is not in Chile, my friend. I really love your logic too: we are neither Serbian not Albanian, hence not "allowed" to discuss the subject but Serbs are not "allowed" to edit the article either. Got to love your democracy at work! Whether you like it or not, the Kosovo article is not meant to be a UCK mouthpiece. Regards,
Asterion 00:15, 25 March 2006 (UTC)reply
Asterion, Litany, or whoever you are. You are not trying to put the article in "order", you are just determined to defend serbian nationalism, and that means erase and change anything that Albanians contribute in the site. OF COURSE I can help you in that. I told you a long time ago, you cannot stop me. I am doing this for my country, and I will never get tired contributing. I never said Andalusia was in Chile, I just wanted you to understand (but blinded by serbian nationalism you seem to not be able to do that easily) that one person from andalusia OR Chile (read: who is not directly involved in the issue) should not just delete stuff. This article belongs to those whose country it is in question. I don't recall to have changed anything on the content of BRASIL or the Australia (check the comparison I make again). Oh another thing, I am NOT your friend. It is not democracy to not respect the main element of democracy: the right of Kosovo Albanians on self-determination. That applies to this article as well, we are the ones whom this article concerns the most. Oh and that sockpuppet campaign you have started, you are as ridiculous as one frustrated serian nationalist can be.
Ilir pz 11:27, 25 March 2006 (UTC)reply
Well, if Kosovo Albanians should have the right to form their own country, why isn't Republika Srpska a country? It's mostly Serbs who live there, why should Albanians have self-determination, but not Serbs? --
Serbiana₪ 08:11, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
How do you explain Albanians? a migrating gypsy nation from Azerbaijan who fought under Adolf Hitler, later under Soviet influence. Are not Albanians people who side with the best? you know like those people who suck dick to stay alive. Now they claim Serbian, Greek and Macedonian (Greek) lands, whilst Greeks were in the Balkans at least 4000 years, and Albania never existed. Greek feed your children, but you not humans, your sub-human animals that side with the winning side, a country with no history, no national heroes, except you steal other countries history and proclaim its your ancestors the "Illyrians", which is complete bullshit like Hitler's Aryan race. Anyways get a life, all Islam-o-fascists will be wiped out from Europe, sorry EUROPE DOES NOT WANT ISLAM.
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I specified that I just shrinked the original page to make it usable for the site, but it still did not work. Freely delete it. Thanks,
Ilir pz 11:03, 25 March 2006 (UTC)reply
Question
Why did you ask in the first place? --
HolyRomanEmperor 16:45, 25 March 2006 (UTC)reply
Så du kan norska, vad roligt! :)
Tyvärr må jag säga att det är ganska tråkigt när du skriker och gapar att jag vandaliserar och borde blockas. Jag tror inte du förstår vad vandalism är för jag är neutral tillskillnad från dig. Har jag någonsin sagt eller hotat med att ”stoppa dig” så som du hotat mig? Tillskillnad från dig så vet jag att alla är välkomna på wikipedia så länge man följer NPOV regeln.
Det är så patetiskt att du hänvisar mig till serbiska wikipedia bara för att jag bidrar med saker som inte går väl i hand med din fantasi verklighet. Du säger att du försvarar ditt land men du skadar det bara genom att förneka saker. Nationalism och extremism är inte rätt, någonsin.
Ingen bryr sig om att diskutera mina saker på diskussions sidan, alla bara bråkar, så varför ska jag bry mig om att skriva där först. Nu har jag förklarat mig nog för dig. Jag lovar dig också att jag ALDRIG kommer låta extremismen vinna! Jag har också gott om tid att vara på Wikipedia så du kan inte skrämma mig med att säga att du aldrig kan stoppas. :) Så det vore väldigt uppskattat om du blev mer öppensinnad och inte bedrev någon mera extremism.
Tack! :)
Litany
Stop removing content
Please refrain from removing content from Wikipedia, as you did to
Šar mountain. It is considered
vandalism. If you want to experiment, please use the
sandbox. Thank you. --
Dijxtra 20:55, 26 March 2006 (UTC)reply
OK
OK, but what provocative messages you meant? --
HolyRomanEmperor 15:55, 31 March 2006 (UTC)reply
I am not sure you are only curious when you ask "why then Kosovar users (including you) put this user supports the independence of Kosovo. Independent from what, if not from Serbia? from Azerbeijan?" type of question. I can only say that is provocation. You know quite well that recognition of independence of Kosovo by int'l community is needed, and that "support logo" is directed towards them. It would be desirable, but not crucial if Serbia recognizes it as well. So don't even think any Kosovar refers to "independence" as "independence from Serbia and Montenegro" but as an international recognition of the independence of Kosova. regards,
Ilir pz 16:02, 31 March 2006 (UTC)reply
I never provoke anyone. At least not intentionally. Why did you remove my post anyway? Additionally, if Kosovo needs independence, it means that it needs recognition that it isn't a part of another entity => Serbia, in this case. --
HolyRomanEmperor 15:29, 1 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I appreciate that you care so much to clarify this. I am sure Albanians in Kosova are the most impatient about this. I remove posts in my talk page, content of which is offensive to me. I want to believe your statement that Kosovo is a part of Serbia is just an April 1st Fools joke. So sorry for you and some other who are still blind to think that. Spare me of your unintentional jokes, please.Thanks!
Ilir pz 23:00, 1 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I feel sorry for all Albanians in Kosovo, too bad they don't have their own country... Oh, wait, yes they do, it's called Albania. Why do you seek to create a
Greater Albania, and call the Serbs nationalist? Why can't you live happily in Serbia, with your own president, parliament and autonomy? Is living in Serbia so bad? Compate Priština to Belgrade. Which city looks better/richer? Do you have any idea how much Serbian money goes into Kosovo each year? Why independence? And please, don't tell me "well, because Serb forces ethnically cleansed Albanians in Kosovo in 1998 and 1999", Kosovars have been pushing for independence since 1981, and the intention of Serb forces was to eliminate separatists.
You might get your independence one day, but you should never be proud of the way you got it. The world wants Kosovo to be independent so they can use your resources, all factories will be privatized, and Kosovars will be more poor than ever. This is not about Serbian nationalism, the issue is much larger in scope. I don't care about the Wikipedia article anymore, what frightens me is how there are a lot of people willing to become slaves of Western powers, and aren't educated enough to understand the basic principles of totalitarianism and globalization. That's why Serbia suffered bombings and world isolation, for not wanting to become "just like everyone else". Sadly, Kosovo will probably become just like India, Pakistan, Algeria, and all the other nations that separated from larger countries, and lived through hell, before they could be called "developing countries". --
Serbiana₪ 02:39, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
No comment. Ilir pz 08:14, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I expected you wouldn't comment. Keep dreaming of your Kosova... --
Serbiana₪ 08:52, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I am not dreaming of Kosova, instead enjoying every single day there, and will do so until I die. just check what kind of questions you ask?! Let me show you how separatists have been fought
[1], let the pics tell you. I am sure that if you have a little understanding you will agree with me that your other questions are as irrelevant, once you see some pics here.Ilir pz 09:24, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Këshilla shqiptare
Mos i shaj këta idiotat se mujnë me ta bo block. Shitu ma car, fol me fakte.
Aeternus 18:21, 1 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Cfare fakte o vella, a nuk po i sheh qe jane leshu nja 20 prej tyne, jane lidhe bashke, jo si na, vec une kam mbete tu shkru aty. Qe ma bojne block i boj nja pesedhjete emra tjere, sma nin fort prej tyne. Ropt ktyne....Faktet dihen qe jane ne anen tone, po keta gjithmone po i nderrojne shenimet, tu qite fakte anti-shqiptare, po i gjejne do prej kohes se milloshit. Ka nevoje per me shume njerez me ndihmu, se per momentin kerrqysh nuk i kena punet aty. Hajde me te mira! Pershendetje nga prizreni,
Ilir pz 23:49, 1 April 2006 (UTC)reply
3RR revert war
You are in danger of being blocked for violating the
3-revert rule. --
Serbiana₪ 00:43, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
So is Asterion and you. If I get blocked you should as well, as you are reverting constantly.
Ilir pz 07:52, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I wouldn't have to revert anything, if you didn't revert my every attempt to make an article more neutral. --
Serbiana₪ 08:08, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
It is obvious how ready you are to negotiate. I will just keep doing what you guys do all the time, I have no choice. Ilir pz 08:12, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Yes, I think it is very obvious. I told you several times that we should discuss an issue, and you just reply with "dream on", "my loving country Kosova" and now "no comment". Mark my words, you will be blocked one day, when you least expect it. --
Serbiana₪ 08:54, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
No use in discussing with you. You first revert, and then discuss. I have no choice, but to revert your changes, until you change that order.
Ilir pz 09:12, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Neutral point of view
Hi, please familiarize yourself with Wikipedia's
Neutral point of view policy, if you haven't already. It basically states that an article should include all sides of an issue, no matter how ridiculous you perceive them to be. Your edits made to the
Kosovo article were not neutral, such as your changes done to the History section. Take a look at the
Panchen Lama page for example - it lists the Tibetan one and the one appointed by the Chinese government. Many people (including myself) know that the Tibetan one is the only "real one", but to be neutral we have to include (what many see) as the fake one. After all, Tibet is in China. You see what I'm saying?
I hope you do, and that in the future we can work together to improve and help Wikipedia. --
Khoikhoi 09:02, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Thanks for the reminder. Not sure how familiar you are with the subject, Khoikhoi. I do not think you are that familiar to judge what is neutral and what not. Instead check the sources which I give, which are neutral. Whereas the people who you think are neutral in this case, use one-sided sources.
Ilir pz 09:14, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Hmmm, well I checked the History section for both versions of the page, and I only saw one source cited for both versions - it is a PDF. Am I missing something here? --
Khoikhoi 09:23, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Ilir, Khoikhoi is making a general point, and you are not getting it! You are pushing your own agenda without consideration for others. You have to look at every issue from a neutral point of view. Concerning the article about Agim Ceku, you repeatedly deleted the sentence where it says that he was indicted for war crimes by the Serbian gov't because you think its irrelevant. You can't just say that everything you write is neutral, when so many people are complaining, and only the Albanians are supporting you. Open your eyes. --Serbiana₪ 09:21, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Let's try to remain civil here, Serbiana. The only way we can get things accomplished is if we are calm and reasonable - this applies to everyone. --
Khoikhoi 09:23, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I agree, and I've told Ilir many times that we should cooperate in making the article more NPOV, and his his replies were "Very funny", "blla blla blla" and his famous quote - "Your edits will be reverted. You are nobody to decide which is more NPOV version.". So, how can I continue working with this guy if he continues to ignore me and my edits? --Serbiana₪ 09:33, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
You wonder why I ignore your comments? let me reply using some of your many offensive comments: "I feel sorry for all Albanians in Kosovo, too bad they don't have their own country... Oh, wait, yes they do, it's called Albania." "the intention of Serb forces was to eliminate separatists." "Keep dreaming of your Kosova", I don't waste my time with such ironic nationalists. I am a very understanding person for people who show a little understanding in return. Thank you, Ilir pz 09:42, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Is there anything that's not true in what I've said? There really is a country called Albania. Serb forces really did have orders to eliminate separatists. "Keep dreaming of your Kosova" was a response to you saying "Keep dreaming" when I mentioned that Kosovo is a part of Serbia, which it really is. So, what was your point when you were writing my quotes? --Serbiana₪ 09:47, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Sure there is truth, Albania is a country. What orders they had and what the serb forces really did on the ground could tell the pictures which of course you did not look at. Kosovo is a territory under UN Admin. Your quotes are as offensive as saying the killed civillians are terrorists, and it is offensive to me as I lost two cousins, one 70yr old, and another 7 yrs old. Not sure they could be labelled as terrorists. Don't waste my time, please! Ilir pz 09:53, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I'm sorry for your loss. I hope the soldiers who did that will be brought to justice one day and brutaly punished fro what they did. OK, as much as I hate to admit it, Serbs did commit terrible crimes in Kosovo, but wether it was organized from Belgrade or not, is not known. But we are not discussing that, we are discussing how you're looking at the situation from one side. Why did the soldiers do that? Did the Serbian gov't just say "Hey, lets go kill Albanians in Kosovo for no damn reason..."? --Serbiana₪ 10:01, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Are you justifying the killings of those civillians? So asking for human rights justifies killing of those innocents? And even worse to the families of the killed, they were trucked to a mass grave near the Serbian capital Belgrade, or Danube riverbed??? Hope you are not seriously thinking that. I am not all those soldiers that committed crimes will be brought to justice. Ilir pz 10:15, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
As I said before - you should contact an admin for help. Another choice would be to file an
RfC. --
Khoikhoi 09:35, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I understand your point Khoikhoi. Not sure which pdf you are referring to, but if it is the one I think, it is a book, not just a pdf, and the guy who wrote it is an expert in the field, and not Albanian. And boris, yes, what Serbian govt says is relevant only for the serbian minority in Kosova, and doesn't make more sense to Albanians than would a poster of CPC in the walls of Prizren before 1999. The abovementioned accusation on Gen.Lt.Prime Minister of Kosova is one-sided, and as Interpol withdrew that irrelevant accusation, it is not worth being mentioned. For the govt in Serbia all albanians are war criminals, so, I don't see the sense here to cite that source.
Ilir pz 09:29, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I don't see it, which book is it? I'm pretty curious. --
Khoikhoi 09:31, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I don't think all Albanians are terrorists, you can't just make an assumption like that. One of my best friends is an Albanian who lives in Germany, I'm still in touch with him. Nothing is just black and white, right and wrong. You must look at everything from both sides, at least in this encyclopaedia. --Serbiana₪ 09:36, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Neither do I think all serbs are terrorists. I studied together with some, and had a roommate from Belgrade even. The very important difference is that we were studying in an American univ. where they had access to neutral sources of information, and were away from the Tanjug dominated medias. Two of them, before we graduated apologized to me, because of what Serbs did to Kosovo. Of course I told them they should not apologize, as they are not guilty, it was enough they realized what the truth is, and that matters more. Unfortunately, when they go back at home, they cannot speak freely and say what they told me, as the brainwashing propaganda is still working. I am sure many in Serbia still think Albanians have tails, or all are short with mustache, and dark skinned. Funny as hell.
Ilir pz 09:46, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
What you're saying is partly true. I don't live in Serbia anymore, and most of my friends used to refer to Albanians as filthy, ugly people. I agree that some Serb forces ethnically cleansed Albanians from Kosovo, and yes, it may have been mass organized. And I wouldn't have anything against that information to be in the article. But, not to mention that Serbs were cleansed as well, makes me mad. I would never apologize for anything that soldiers did in Kosovo, because I personally don't feel responsible, since my parents always voted against Milosevic. This agruement can go on 4ever. Lets stop fighting and seriously think of a way to improve the Kosovo-related articles. 1st step - Do you recognize that Kosovo is a part of Serbia under UN control? (Yes or No) --Serbiana₪ 09:57, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
No. Kosovo is a territory under UN Administration. Read chapter one of
[2] constitutional framework of Kosovo:
1.1 Kosovo is an entity under interim international administration which, with its people, has unique historical, legal, cultural and linguistic attributes.
Until its status is defined, it is not a part of any country. Indications show that will not be the case in the future as well. Read Contact group statement number 6:
The Contact Group Guiding Principles of November 2005 make clear that there should be: no return of Kosovo to the pre-1999 situation, no partition of Kosovo, and no union of Kosovo with any or part of another country.
I am for referring to the official authority in Kosova as of now. Else, I will have to revert the changes you and others make, which are speaking with the language of the previous regime in Kosova. Thank you, Ilir pz 10:05, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Then we have nothing else to discuss. --Serbiana₪ 10:07, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
You don't like the Albanian version, neither the internationally recognized documents in Kosovo? Clearly identifies your wrong orientation. well, have a nice day then! Ilir pz 10:15, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Hi Ilir,
This is a note I sent to a number of Croatian editors, but I feel that it might be of interest to you as the user in question has already been active on pages related to Kosova.
Just a short note to let you know that
User:WikiMB is, in all likelyhood, another account that has been opened by
Serbiana. Given the number of his edits and the approach he is using he is probably aiming at eventually getting adminship at Wikipedia which
Serbiana failed to secure on a couple of attempts for all the known reasons. Needless to say, this would have interesting consequences on our efforts to maintain articles related to Croatia. I had suspected this for some time, but I didn't have any proof until yesterday (April 2) when
Serbiana made a mistake of deleting a
Luka Jačov's comment left on
User:WikiMB's discussion under Re:Template. Luka Jačov appeared 5 minutes after this deletion and left a slightly modified comment. Pretty interesting tempering with another user's page on the part of
Serbiana. Of course,
User:WikiMB re-appeared 5 minutes later as if nothing had happened to add another PR remark. For more info check
WB's history page].
Ilir, të kam regjistruar në kategorinë "Wikipedians in Kosovo". Ja, shikoje:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedians_in_Kosovo
Thirri edhe shokët e tu kosovarë që të regjistrohen këtu, sepse vetëm kështu mund të bëhemi
bashkë kundër okupatorit.
Aeternus 15:47, 4 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Flm Petrit.
Ilir pz 09:50, 6 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Please see Wikipedia's
no personal attacks policy: There is no excuse for personal attacks on other contributors. Do not make them. Comment on content, not on the contributor; personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that you may be
blocked for disruption. Please
stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thanks, --
HolyRomanEmperor 22:46, 4 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Do not remove warnings from your talk page, for it is considered vandalism
This is your last warning. Removing warnings from your talk page is considered vandalism. You will be
blocked from editing Wikipedia and your talk page will be protected from editing if you do it again. Thank yous --
HolyRomanEmperor 22:46, 4 April 2006 (UTC)--reply
Point of protocol
Please understand, Wikipedia has Serb editors and Croat editors and Slovene editors and Bosniak editors and Kosovar editors and Guatemalan editors and Paraguayan editors and Danish editors and Rwandan editors and editors who are in the scientific camps in Antarctica.
You - all of you - must learn to get along with each other. This is not a battleground; it is an encyclopedia. The truly violent people aren't here. If angry people cannot learn to control their tempers - despite how justified that anger may (or may not) be - then they will be blocked from editing.
Removing the warnings from your talk page goes against protocol, as it could be interpreted that you are attempting to deceive the administrators into thinking you have not committed any previous infractions.
DS 01:10, 5 April 2006 (UTC)reply
What dragonfly67 said is completely true. While you may feel that warnings are biased and unfair, it's best to discuss your feelings below it rather than removing them entirely. Any admins who would see those warnings would see your response and be able to determine if any further action is needed. --Rory096 04:15, 5 April 2006 (UTC)reply
thanks for your info Rory and DS, I appreciate your clarifications. Still I consider these warnings of those other two to be their personal problem, and it seems as if they're vandalizing my talk page on purpose, to make me give up on the issue which we are trying to resolve together. DS, I am not sure that truly violent people aren't here. True that they cannot cause any physical harm, but they are here to vandalize and revert everything that is encyclopedia, facts backed with sources, which I try to do all the time. Anyways, thanks for the notes.
Ilir pz 09:23, 6 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Peace
OK, Ilir, the comment above makes sense... Kosovo is governed by the United Nations, and it's status is unresolved. I won't push for the "Kosovo is a part of Serbia" anymore... This bickering is leading nowhere, and I've decided to just let go of some opinions that have been probably subliminaly engraved in my head by the previous Serb government. Let's forget about what was in the past, and look forward to a better future where, hopefully, Albanians and Serbians can live together in peace. Will you forgive me for being an ass? --Serbiana₪ 01:48, 5 April 2006 (UTC)reply
That is encouraging to hear. I am sure we are going to be able to live together again, never doubted on that. I know that there are many smart Serbs out there, and I met plenty and made friends with them. No need to ask for forgiveness. I would encourage you to "infect" Asterion and HolyRomanEmperor with your new rational way of thinking. He keeps vandalizing Kosovo site still, with those meaningless changes which he is so stubborn at. I will have to revert that to a previous version, and then start discussing. Hope to see your rational contributions in practice in the future. Regards,Ilir pz 09:29, 6 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I am pleased to see that you are not of the viewpoint that every Serb editor is wrong simply because they are Serbs. I would like to suggest, for controversial articles, that you use the following format:
"Here is what both sides agree on. This is a controversial subject, however - here is the Kosovar viewpoint, (X) (supported by sources 1, 2, and 3), as opposed to the Serb viewpoint, (Y) (supported by sources 4, 5, and 6)." Sound good?
DS 14:17, 6 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I appreciate your initiative. I will forward this to the "Hot" area :).
Ilir pz 16:29, 6 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I tried in the kosovo talk page, I failed. Too many hot heads. None even read what I proposed.
Ilir pz 17:37, 6 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Ilir, I have decided not to edit Kosovo-related articles anymore, I might leave comments on the talk page, but thats it. I'd like to infect others, but I believe thats something they have to figure out for themselves, like I have. Also, in honour of the end of hostilities between you and me, I will post the Albanian flag on my user page for 1 week. --Serbiana₪ 03:38, 8 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I cannot...
...do anything if you keep it up this way... --
HolyRomanEmperor 19:39, 6 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Note that I am intent on removing your post from my talk page, because you simply didn't source it. Strangely, you put it after my warning for your continuous personal attacks against the Wikipedian Community, so this can only be interpreted as a frustrating revenge.
P. S. If you think that admins just look through that image and if you think that you will create a bad stereotype of me that way, you're wrong, I beg to differ, my Kosovar friend. Because other users will see if your warning is based on firm grounds (which isn't, since you didn't source it), and when they see my warning to you, they will see your personal attacks. I hope that this explains a bit how things work on
Wikipedia (please see the article), and hope to see good will from you from now on. As a token of my good will towards you, I will not remove your avenging baseless threat.
Yes, it seems he is being busy slandering other wikipedians whom he disagree.
Ilir also left an unreferenced warning on my talk page. I think the solution will have to be arbitration at the end. The outlook is pretty similar to that on the
User:Gibraltarian case, who ultimately got banned for his actions. Apologies to you,
HolyRomanEmperor, for not intervening in the ongoing discussion but I have been very busy lately. I shall, nevertheless, get back to this later on this weekend.
Asterion 02:24, 8 April 2006 (UTC)reply
O Ilir
A osht shka qyky HolyRomanEmperor-i a? Nëse po, vetëm tregom, ja tregoj unë atij se ku e ka vendin!
Aeternus 16:33, 8 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I rrast :)), po mos ia prish faqen a najsen, vec mushja me shenja qe e kercenojne per prishje te faqes se kosoves. Nuk ki nevoje me ba far gabimi se ta ndalojne hyrjen ne Wikipedia.Pershendetje e mireseardhje, Petrit
Ilir pz 21:12, 8 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I heard of such rules each province has. Sounds to me like US, or Germany, where each unit of the "state" has their own laws. The other day I heard that some German friend of mine, she could not work in another "land" unless she marries someone there, or get a permanent residence. Even though the other land's school was closer than her own land's :))) Weird laws sometimes. Would be nice to see that documentary. Let me know about the link, once you decide to share it. I lived in
Ocean City, MD. It is a really lovely place. Was seeing dolphins every morning at the ocean. Amazing. Good old times. Miss that. Sorry to hear about the bakeries. Now I will have to do some school reading, before going to bed. Good night would be "Naten e mire"(nuhten e meer), as it is after midnight here now. Cao,Ilir pz 22:52, 8 April 2006 (UTC)reply
First of all, I am not Serbian. Second of all, please point out why would someone consider that? I never used words like Serbian fascists or similiar (unlike you, my friend). I've never had issues with Albanians, two wiki-Albanians (one contributing to the Serbian wikipedia) are my best wiki-companions, and the first time that I have problems is with you. Hopefully, this is just a temporary misunderstanding, chump. :) If you find any offense whatsoever, please point it out to me so that I can correct errors. My non-contributing work? I greatly expanded the article and repairded unendigly bad grammar. You, on the other hand, keep fighting a revert war against the Wikipedia Community restoring the age-old inconsistent version of the article. And the article's name's not Kosova, but Kosovo. This is not an insult (as you may have understood my every single word), but a note to the name of the article. --
HolyRomanEmperor 23:40, 8 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Oh, and I never cherish hatred to anyone. Fate and conscience will destroy the sinful, so I do not need to hate even them. :-) I would ask you of been full of hatred, rather. You animously react to the intention of mentioning Metohija, even though it's used in the world, and you keep acusing the Serbs around Wikipedia to be fascists and try to avert control over Wikipedia and other users to you. I never did such things.
As I said, I hope that the things will change!!! :) Best regards, my friend! --
HolyRomanEmperor 23:59, 8 April 2006 (UTC)reply
If you are not a Serb and adore Serbian nationalism, that is still your problem, not mine. I don't remember to have used the word fascists for Serbs, but I sure would use that word to those that made our lives hell for decades. That is a mild label for those. If you are not in that group, don't feel offended. Contributing with one-sided facts, fueled with nationalism, is called non-contribution, chump. I also hope this is a temporary misunderstanding, as hopefully you become more rational and read rather neutral sources, not those written by and translated by Serbian academy of Science, or alike. Please, for your sake. I don't care to change your mind. KosovA will become independent, no matter what you or other nationalists wish. As of not having issues with serbs, I will just tell you that I had a roommate a Serb from Belgrade, and other friends as well. Recently, even in wiki. I am having problems with you an a couple of extreme-wing nationalists who are sworn (or paid) to vandalise the KosovA page. Metohija is used by Serbs only, it is not official. I react animously ha? And then you say you don't offend. Nice one. Keep expressing yourself. Hope your funds (or your irrationality) stop soon. greetz, Ilir pz 00:09, 9 April 2006 (UTC)reply
OK, could you think that maybe you're wrong? That maybe you're a nationalist, and not me? Or perhaps we're both nationalists, just we don't realize that. I showed to you that Kosovo-Metohija is used in the world just as so is Kosovo.
You have said numerious times that no one believes the censi published by the government of Serbia and you keep telling me not to use Serbian sources, nor anything from the Serbian Academy of Science. I listen to and believe what Albanian factions say. Why can't you believe the Serbs then? Aren't you a bit one-sided 'ere?
Here, for instance, you said Stop the nazi-like serbian nationalism and I saw other sayings. I, on the other hand, never use them or alike.
I saw that you're full of understanding on
Talk:Kosovo, so I thought that you really wanted to discuss; but you just gave up and continued the revert war. Why? --
HolyRomanEmperor 00:34, 9 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Please, note that I noticed numerious teh instead of the; there were articles missing at many locations. On one place, it said that Stefan Nemanja was a Croat, and it said that according to De Administrando Imperio; both of these being incorrect. It called the Russo-Turkish War as the Serbo-Turkish War instead and said that 12,000 Albanians died in the most recent Kosovo War, when that's the total (9,000-10,000 Albanians and 1,000-2,000 others, mostly Serbs and some Romas). Numerious links were broken leading to nonexistent external pages and articles or even worse (the word that bears the link doesn't exist at all). ANd you're reverting from my version that corrected all that to the one that has those mistakes? Also, I wrote a very large part of History and sectionize it, it's against wikipedia's policy to have such large sections. And why do you think that that age-old version that's nearly broken is better (superior) to our (Wikipedians') new one, my dear potential friend? --
HolyRomanEmperor 00:44, 9 April 2006 (UTC)reply
As of being a nationalist, there is nothing bad with that, as long as that doesn't mean vandalizing pages of others, like the nationalism that feeds you is doing. Nice barnstars you're exchanging with Asterion. Is that Arkan's emblem or it only seems like? Not sure about potential friendship. You are too extreme. Still a member of "nebeski narod". When you land in Earth, where people think earthly, and accept the reality (read: KOSOVA will become independent by the end of the year) maybe I can consider it. I appreciate your changes, dealing with Nemanja being serbian or croat, I don't care about that. Of course helping with "hte" and "the" is kindly appreciated. But most of your changes are not of that nature, on the contrary- INFLAMATORY to extremes. Why did I stop discussing in talkpage:Kosovo? you tell me. I proposed compromises couple of times, none read them. Amongst them you, just continued reverting. So of course I gave up. Let us see how this goes. I am ready for as long as it takes. I've sworn myself to dedicating my time to Wiki Kosova and make it neutral and clear for whoever is interested to read in it.
Ilir pz 10:44, 10 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Please see Wikipedia's
no personal attacks policy: There is no excuse for personal attacks on other contributors. Do not make them. Comment on content, not on the contributor; personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that you may be
blocked for disruption. Please
stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thanks. Sceptre(Talk) 14:17, 10 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Ilir, please be calm. You said exchanging? To exchange means that I give him and he gives me. But, did I give him? No, I didn't, my friend. I don't know why you mention a man that killed my friends and tortured my kin (Arkan). Nebeski narod? What does that mean? I am a historian, and I don't care about the future very much, only the past. Note that it is I who told you that Kosovo will probably become independent, even though the International Community said that it will not support it. I keep reverting? I only restore Litany's and Asterion's versions, since they keep the corrected grammatical errors (and others that I failed to mention), unlike you, that kept returning the broken version. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, but I took you for a vandal when I saw you keeping restoring foolish parts of the article.
P. S. I know that some Albanians use the word Kosova, but why do you enforce it? You wrote KOSOVA with all capital letters. As I don't mind it, I note to you that the English version of the word is Kosovo. Regards. --
HolyRomanEmperor 17:55, 10 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Agin Ceku
Yes, I know that he was labelled that way; but hey, after the
Yugoslav Wars, Slobodan Milosevic was Man of the Year according to New York Times and even a Nobel Prize of Peace candidate suggested by the British government. The UN Chancellorship decided to give him a seat in the UN office for his work. But remember what is Milosevic? The greatest criminal of modern Europe... --
HolyRomanEmperor 19:00, 10 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Kosovo
Sorry, I wasn't aware that that anon was you. I'm going to stay away from that page, and most Balkan-related articles for that matter - I'm trying to not get myself involved in more controversies. --
Khoikhoi 23:26, 10 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Anon = "anonymous user", as in someone who either is not logged-in or doesn't have a user name. --
Khoikhoi 23:31, 10 April 2006 (UTC)reply
An anon looks like an IP address. Anyone with a user name isn't an anon. --
Khoikhoi 23:40, 10 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Hehe, you and I are both registered users. --
Khoikhoi 23:44, 10 April 2006 (UTC)reply
What? Calm down man. Let me clarify - I reverted an anon. You then left a message on my talk page saying don't revert. I then said that I didnt' know that the anon is just you when you are not signed in. That's when I said I wouldn't revert anymore. Why are you mad? --
Khoikhoi 00:02, 11 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Do the anons also count for 3RR?
Asterion 00:24, 11 April 2006 (UTC)reply
If you can prove that the same person did the reverts (that the anon is the person as the user in quetsion) then yes, the anon also counts. --
Dijxtra 17:13, 11 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Reply
I hope you really have changed attitued but the templates on your
user page may talk for it self. I can guarantee you too that I will continue fight against extremism, of any kind. I hope you understand that the Albanian extremism you are contributing with are not any better than the Serbian others are contributing or any extremism at all. Do you find me a serious threat just because I not support extrem nationalism? I must revert the Kosovo page sadly since you delete very important information but I agree with you on other things about the page. See
Talk:Kosovo for explanations.
You have previously not answeared my reply on your talk page nor on the Kosovo talk page. I hope we could work something out as always. There is no news about that. My best,
Litany
Litany, you claim to be neutral but you "sadly"(as you say) revert the same way those that are well-known vandals do. You call me an extremist just because I think different from your revert war friends? Not fair from your side.
Ilir pz 19:26, 11 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Ilir pz, how many times have you called me a vandal? How many times how you reverted my edits without taking notice about the source and truth in the information. Whatever I would say, you would refer as Serbian Nazi-Propaganda. Please belive me when I say that I'm not a supporter of Milosevic, (and I have good reasons), but still I can talk negative about UCK. I like Albanian history just like I like Serbian, Croatian or Swedish. We need to discuss open in a forum and I'm willing to listen to your opinions but I also demand that you listen to mine. I'm always interested to learn and see things from other pionts of view. I hope you are too but if you close within and not listen I must SADLY ignore you. My best
Litany
Vandal is one that just reverts the other side without giving (other than 1244 holly document says) facts. I try to explain in the talk page, but before I even click "save page" there, someone (you, HRE, or Asterion) has already reverted what I added. Simply. That doesnt leave any space for me to manouver, I get tired of explaining. I am glad you like Albanian history. Unfortunately, that is something I don't believe in and instead blame for all that is happening. It is a bunch of documents which the sides in a dispute fabricate accordingly. I can also talk negative about UCK. BUT for those that committed crimes. I've had plenty of UCK soldiers, who were related to my family, and they had never touched a Serbian innocent family. There is a saying "in every forest there are wild pigs". I am not protecting the wild pigs from my nation either. I despise them more than the Serbian criminals who horrified my nation. I wish I had more time to discuss with you in any open forum. I listen to others opinions, yours as well, as I always liked studying humans and their behavior, but I am tired of explaining to people who obviously seem so brainwashed as to support a Milosevic party, the one who horrified all nations of ex-yug(read: Asterion). You have to understand my tiredness, I wasted 19 years of my life dealing with such.
Ilir pz 10:19, 13 April 2006 (UTC)reply
History for Litany As you mentioned you are interested in history, maybe you find it useful to check this article or book
[3]. Regards,
Ilir pz 10:50, 13 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Yeah I know pretty well what a vandal is since I've meet alot here on Wikipedia. By reverting important NPOV facts by screaming and stating that its propaganda, even ithout proof, then you are commiting vandalism. That kind of behaviour dosent leave anyone any space to manouver. If you dont belive me or my intentions it's your loss. I understand your tiredness, but that must not (and never) be reflected on your wikipedia work. Read facts from different POV and follow the NPOV rule when you edit. My best regards,
Litany
Thanks for the link to the article. It's always useful, but I've allready taken part of this one.
Litany
M'fal që po dal prej temes
A e ngon ti John Lennon-in a?
Aeternus 18:59, 11 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Ska gje Petrit. E ndegjoj Lennonin nganjehere, i ka disa kenge te mira fort. Fat i keq qe u vra, :(. ty a te pelqen?
Ilir pz 19:22, 11 April 2006 (UTC)reply
You have been temporarily blocked for violation of the
three-revert rule. Please feel free to return after the block expires, but also please make an effort to discuss your changes further in the future. The duration of the
block is 24 hours.
William M. Connolley 21:06, 11 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Yohoe, I found out I was blocked, after the time I was blocked passed. This technically means I never felt the block. Thanks for your contribution Asterion. Seems like it had no effect, but anyways. It was an unfair one, as the (suspected sockpuppet)
User:NikX reverted many more times, and (surprisingly) used the same language as Asterion, harsh, and arrogant. Cheers,
Ilir pz 22:58, 12 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Re: Peace? When were we at war in the first place, my friend? :)
I'm sorry, but I can't remember fighting a war against you. ;) I only made several additions to the history, and reverted three times to my version since you restored the broken version. I said that I took you for a vandal, because you only said "Nazi-like Serbian propaganda" and kept change the to teh, adding false arguements in the history like Nemanja's Croatdom and other total nonsences. How did you think I would characterize your edits? Ofcourse, I will take a part of responsibility in the misunderstanding, naturaly.
You didn't understand my comments? You said: Nice barnstars you're exchanging with Asterion. You will note that I haven't given him any barnstar, how're we exchanging then? Then you said: Is that Arkan's emblem or it only seems like? Arkan is a murderous thug that executed a bunch of my friends and family, and is a xenophobic hater of everything that my (recent, don't ask ;) kin/people stands for. I understood that you not only like Albanian criminals, but also Serbian/Yugoslav? That post seemed like all you care about are killers. What did Nebeski narod? mean?
About the Milosevic part, well; the entire world in the first half of the 1990s recognized him as the peacekeeper of the century, and yet he is the greatest bad-guy of modern Europe. You also said that Agin Ceku was rated by someone (I was drawing a parallel). Note, that Ceku said that he cannot guarrantee the status of Serbs if Kosovo doesn't get its independence. So, if Kosovo doesn't get its independence, the Serbs are doomed, and if Kosovo becomes independent, they're surely done for. What kind of a Premier is that, threating (note, that is a threat) the World? I thought that only Miloshevich had the guts to go that far too much.
I would gladly continue the discussion, but here, on your talk page, instead. Now, I'm all ears, my friend. :) --
HolyRomanEmperor 21:45, 11 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I am not sure you are right. You kept reverting my changes constantly, maybe not only you, for that you are right, my friend. Yes, that emblem looked exactly like of some Arkan guys that I saw in my city. That he is a murderous thug, I know that from experience, I told you once I lost two cousings, a child and an elderly man. It was his "elite" who did it. I am sorry he affected you as well. Hey hey, you offend again, I don't like criminals, wherever they are from, I despise them. Especially if any of them is Albanian, it makes me feel more hate, ok? Don't tell me you don't know what nebeski narod stands for, please. That would be very disappointing to hear. Ceku's word is a fact. He has not many powers, as much as 3rd or 4th person in the hierarchy of a state has. UN SRSG is the most powerful there, there is no intelligence service, and he cannot exert his powers to protect them. That is why independence would give him more powers to do that. He is not threatening the world. That is the reality. And yes, of course, the people of Kosovo cannot stand the status quo. You cannot live in a hold for decades like we lived in the past 20 years, asking what is happening tomorrow. It HAS TO be decided soon what, and indications show the will of the majority of people of Kosova will decide. Serbs are not doomed if they accept to live with their neighbouring Albanians, like they did before being brainwashed by Millosheviq. I strongly believe there is hope. OF COURSE the criminals who committed crimes will have to pay for their crimes, and cannot return to the crime scene, so those Serbs are not ever welcome in Kosova again. So, my friend, if you read this that I wrote at all, call your reason before you judge me and revert all my changes. Remember, I always give a reason for what I do, a life moto of mine!!!Ilir pz 10:06, 13 April 2006 (UTC)reply
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Jkelly 01:20, 12 April 2006 (UTC)reply
The copyright holder is usually the creator, the creator's employer, or the last person who was transferred ownership rights. Copyright information on images is signified using copyright templates. The three basic license types on Wikipedia are
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Please signify the copyright information on any other images you have uploaded or will upload. Remember that images without this important information can be deleted by an administrator. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me, or ask them at the
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Jkelly 01:21, 12 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Futa njo që e ki bo vetë dhe që nuk është i lejuar ndryshimi.--
Hipi Zhdripi 23:19, 12 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Invitation
Hello Ilir! I invite you to join the
WikiProject Serbia. I'd really appreciate it if you joined us :) All the best, --
serbiana-talk 04:07, 13 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I really have no idea what nebeski narod stands for. Where you reffering to some mentions of Serbs being a Heaven People? :)))) I've heard this; but only from one Serb (out of 10 million) and he lives in a mental institution...
Seems like there are many such, like all those that think Kosova is ever going to be in any kind of union with Serbia.
Ilir pz 21:49, 15 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I might add that I lost my (only) sister...
My condolences.
Ilir pz 21:49, 15 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Agin might not've threatened the world, but he sure did make a threat. Please just read what he said. If Kosovo doesn't get it's independence, I cannot guarrantee the rights of Serbs. That means that Kosovo must be independent, whether anyone (including the whole Kosovar people) liked it or not. How's that not a threat? Anyway, I already pointed out to you the many mischiefs that Agin Ceku did, so his word simply cannot be trusted. Can we trust the words of Milosevic?
Not sure about PM Ceku's past (before 1999), so I cannot speculate. That what he said is not a threat from his side. It is a fact. If Kosova does not become independent, more and more instability is to come. Unemployment will rise, and conflicts will erupt. I would suggest you to read this article
[4].
Ilir pz 21:49, 15 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I feel that this is the main issue. Slobodan Milosevic's dead and his War Party dispatched to the Hague tribunal. Franjo Tudjman's dead and the nationalism long over. Islamic aggressiveness died out in Bosnia with Alija Izetbegovic. Everyone purged itself. Serbia even had a Democratic Revolution led by Zoran Djindjic (who was, sadly, assassinated). The only last bit to purge (aside from Radovan Karadzic still on freedom) is Kosovo. Sadly, something totally reversed happenned there. Ibrahim Rugova, the only man that stood between Albanian terrorism and Serbian aggression is now dead; and the still living vultures of the wicked 1990s Yugoslavia are now consuming Kosovo, most certainly leading it to the path of temporary (but very long) failure. I'm reffering to Agin Ceku, Ramush Haradinaj and Hachim Tachi.
Rugova was not the only peaceful man. I refresh your memory, he always won the majority of votes. So we are talking about the majority of Kosovars, right? Who are you referring to as Albanian terrorism? Which independent court accussed the above three that you mentioned as terrorists??
Ilir pz 21:49, 15 April 2006 (UTC)reply
However, I simply disagree that there is future for the ethnic Serbs on Kosovo. Either way, the Serbs are going to pass badly and so are the 1,000-year old Monasteries. It's simply done. Milosevic fused (Greater) Albanian nationalism by killing 9,000-10,000 Albanians and evicting over 700,000. This resulted in 1,000-2,000 dead Serbs and over 100,000 Serbian refugees altogether. After 1999, the situation got worse, as 300,000 (the majority being Serbs) were practicly ethnicly cleansed by the Albanian paramilitary forces. Remember the 2004 March Pogrom? 156 Orthodox Churches and Monasteries were destroyed, the most magnificent of the surely the Monastery of Saint Archangel from Prizren from the 14th century or Our Lady of Ljevis also in the vicinity from the 12th century.
I still strongly believe that Serbs (who did not commit crimes in Kosova) will be able to live in Kosova as equal citizens of free and a democratic country. About churches, they can be reconstructed, and Kosova's government has that program. Albanian religious sites and houses were torched during the war as well. In march 2004 there were some Albanians who got killed as well.
Ilir pz 21:49, 15 April 2006 (UTC)reply
That desecration is the greatest cultural desecration of modern Europe. Not a single land like Kosovo was decapitated of its most richest cultural (1,000 year old!) remains in Modern Europe. Things have continued to take its pace, and trust me; let's accept the truth once. There is no future for the Serbs on Kosovo, nor for the 800-year old Serbian Orthodox Church, neither for the Serbian language. It's just plain facts.
P. S. Oh, and I just viewed the entire history of Kosovo. I only reverted your edits twice, both of the time when you restored mass inconsistencies, grammar errors, self-contradictory facts and broken links... and both were very long ago, with a very wide time-gap. So, where's this you keep reverting? :) --
HolyRomanEmperor 14:16, 13 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Hippi Zhdripi and the discussion
I would wonder and treat carefully why you gave him a star... Please see
Hipi Zhdripi. He has been conducting anti-Albanian propaganda by removing the Albanian naming of the entire entity and its capital city, rm the official Albanian language as well as the Heads of the Transitory Government and the Transitory State; removed altogether the Albanians from the population and simply deleted the entire explaination on the controversy.
Do you see what he has been doing? He first talks about Serbian propaganda, conducts Albanian propaganda, and now anti-Albanian propaganda. Well, pardon me french, but his Contributions seem like those of a... well... very undecided person. --
HolyRomanEmperor 14:21, 13 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Hehe I assume that was a mistake, or he was ironic. If not, I would also be surprised he added that. :)))))
I added a suggestion to proceed further in the Kosovo article, before it is late and this revert-war goes on forever, and people dont feel like stopping anymore. Hope you agree with it, as you are one of the most active there. The star I awarded him for being so persistent in trying to make his point and trying to explain with his limited language abilities. His efforts I awared, but ...hmm...after that last edit, not sure :))))
Ilir pz 22:33, 13 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I thought that we were going to discuss in here? But OK. Me being the most active on Kosovo? I'm sorry to disagree, but Kosovo has been (so far) the least of my contributions and as it looks like, Asterion, Bormalagurski, Litany, simple Administrators and others alike spend much more time with the article. Cheers. --
HolyRomanEmperor 15:00, 14 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Belgrade
Posto si ziveo jedno vreme u Beogradu, nadam se da ces
ovde glasati za Article Improvement Drive, pa da Beograd bude izabrani clanak. I would appreciate your vote. --
serbiana-talk 03:32, 14 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Never lived in Belgrade. Sorry, cant help there.
Ilir pz 19:52, 15 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Tung
Ma mirë me shkru të thyme. Qysh po doket asgjë nuk po shijhet që ky ashtë hipi e zhdripi. haha. Po tasht qysh tasht duhet me dite qe kta e marin edhe ne gjuht tjera. Nuk asht ne pytje vetem anglisht po ele ne tjerat.--
Hipi Zhdripi 18:19, 14 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Hipi po donë mu bo Zhdripi po une në anglish nuk di me shkru Zhdripi. Po jam i sigur se ti munesh shum ma mirë se une. Për qita ish kon mirë me u lajmëru te guri i muhalles--
Hipi Zhdripi 03:51, 15 April 2006 (UTC)reply
In your last edits, you have marked the changes as a minor edit. This is not right. A minor edit generally implies trivial changes only, such as typo corrections, formatting and presentational changes and rearranging of text without changing any content. Therefore, any change that affects the meaning of an article is not minor, even if it involves one word. The distinction between major and minor edits is significant because you may decide to ignore minor edits when viewing
recent changes; logged-in users can even set their preferences to not display them. No one wants to be fooled into ignoring a significant change to an article simply because it was marked "minor." So remember to consider the opinions of other editors when choosing this option.
Asterion 22:32, 15 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I'd like to remind you to be
civil and to not form personal attacks or edit wars through your or others' comments; doing so will only cause tension and annoyance.
No comments for you,the tension maker!!
Ilir pz 10:13, 16 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Litany
You said "Ilir pz, you are confusing me. You are also avoiding my questions and advices. Of course the split of Yugoslavia whould have been like the one between Sweden and Norway. I can tell you that Wikipedia is NOT for PERSONAL OPINIONS. Therfor I will not answear your question whenever I want to see a Independant Repubulic of Kosova, or if Kosovo and Methoija should stay within the Union of SCG. It woulden't change my opinions on anything if they whould be independant or if they would stay. The most important is the best for the people and to keep the culture heritage of all peoples. If you want to know a very good reason why the question about Kosovos independance should be on the hold? More areas like, western Macedonia, Sandzak and Republika Srpska could strive for independance and this whould only be more unstable for the whole region and maybe in the worst case produce more wars. My opinion is baised that education, democracy and finacial investments are the only way for Kosovo and the rest of Balkan to be a peaceful part of Europe. From now on I will answear on your talk page, since we are commited to two discussions with the same topics. Best regards Litany"
First please insert the date in your signatures. It helps.
I wished Wikipedia was not for personal opinions, but for those which reflect the reality. Many people here seem to be fueled by their extreme wing (SPS) parties, be that financially or just ideologically, and come and vandalize the sites here. I do not approve of that. I am wondering why aren't you willing to answer my question then? Since you clearly keep oposing any of my changes in Kosovo wiki, you should have an opinion. Not that it would change anything in the path of Kosova to independence, I am just curious how a Scandinavian (with some inflence by Serbs) judges this issue. Western Macedonia is satisfied with the Oher Accord, and are prospering enough. Macedonia got an invitation by EU for accession, and its road is clear. Sandzak shows no indications in that direction: no peaceful movement for its independence, or autonomy, or ANYTHING. As far as RS is concerned, I have no opinion there, as I don't know about the implications that would caus.
Of course I fully agree with you that education, democracy, and financial investments are THE way to peace. There can be no democracy, no financial investments, no prosperity, if Kosova's status is put on hold. How are we to benefit from the WMF, WB,EU funds? How? Through Serbia? don't tell me that, as it would be ridiculous to say. "Benefiting" through Serbia's funds Kosova became the poorest region in all ex-yug. Not sure we ever had any benefit at all from Serbia. Ever. All Contact Group countries, and the rest (except Serbia of course, even Montenegro officials thinks so) agreed that putting Kosova's status on hold is the worst that could happen.
Ilir pz 10:42, 16 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I state again, Wikipedia is NOT for personal opinions. Please try to respect that. I say like I said before on your talk page "I understand your tiredness, but that must not (and never) be reflected on your wikipedia work". In the beginning you were very negletic and reverted everything, even without reading it. I think you have proved some changes (by not reverting proven facts) to the better but I still not "trust" you. You don't trust me, but hey, who trust anyone on internet?
I was not born yesterday. I've been around just as long to know how Albanian and Serbian POV is working. The problem is obvious all over Balkan.
You think I'm influenced by Serbs? Do you know them? But with all respect who are you influenced by?
The Bosniak population of
Sandzak would dream of independance, but do you think it's the right time? Belgrade is not happy about Kosovo. I'm not that sure that the Albanian population in
Macedonia will be stisfyed forever. If Kosovo gets independance, why should not
Republika Srpska get it? What will happend if Kosovo gets their independance? What happends if they dont? The whole area is to unstabil right now and will be for a long time. Please understand this about what you said earlier about the break up of Yugoslavia. Slovenes, Croats, Bosnians, Makedonians didnt have their own country, but Albania was independant. I'm not justifying anything bad that happend to the Albanian population in Kosovo by saying that.
Nobody should revert your work, but that cursed infobox will still be disputed. I back you up on several occasions but still we have our disputed subjects. :) Yours sincerely
Litany
Several thingies, Ilir
First, I would like to warn you to try to work out with Asterion. I know that you two are a little on edge, but please try to find a common language. The Greeks are of high respect on wiki, and francly, as much as I am ashamed to admit, if any third party arrives, they will most likely choose a Greek over an Albanian (or Macedonian, or Bulgarian, Turk or alike). --
HolyRomanEmperor 11:38, 16 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Second of all, when the governments of the Republics of Montenegro and Serbia met, deciding the future status of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, Serbia's Premier had argued that he will accept all terms that Montenegro's government desires, except for renaming the country; while on the other hand, Montenegro's President argued that that in fact is the only things that bugs him. He suggested "State Union of Serbia and Montenegro". This worried Koshtunica and the others, so they invited several UN officials as mediators. The UN (lesser, though) official was surprised that they even though that and considered that the Yugoslav governments was trying to openly spit on the Albanian politicians of Kosovo. He asked the government How long will you think that Albanian politicians are stupid? Ofcourse the renaming will not affect the 1244 resolution!"
And then you appear claiming that. You must realize why I interpreted it like this. All the best from
Europe, --
HolyRomanEmperor 11:45, 16 April 2006 (UTC)reply
You might also view this BBC report (regarding the Church matters):
Morto i Serbi She wrote that exactly on the ruins of that age-old Church. And she's a young girl.What do you think the other wil...? --
HolyRomanEmperor 11:47, 16 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Thanks for the remark, HRE. Why should the origin matter here, not sure I understand your point. Who cares if he is a Greek? I have nothing against Greeks here. I have nothing against any person based on their nationality. I am defending the truth about my country. And don't care who I have to explain that to, Greek, Serb, Brasilian, anyone. No need to send me warnings. I cannot find a common language with someone who keeps attacking and reverting whatever I edit. I instead ignore them.
Again, I repeat myself, the march 2004 riots are to be ashamed of , by those who took part in it. I don't feel collective responsibility for them, as I did not take part in such. I think whatever Kostunica and Montengrian officials agree has nothing to do with Kosova. If Montenegro is to be independent, that will be another plus for Kosovo's de jure recognition of independence. It will mean that even the closest nation to Serbs, besides Croatians, Macedonians, Slovenians, Bosnians, cannot coexist in that state with them. Why should Albanians then? take care,
Ilir pz 11:53, 16 April 2006 (UTC)reply
HRE you are getting in Asterion's way of reverting the data in Kosovo wiki. Slowly and in a stylish manner. First reverting "Albanian/Serbian" order of names to "Serbian/Albanian". And then without agreeing on the "transitional" part, you change them in the infobox, altogether with the map. Not good, and I was thinking I can find a common language with you at least! I will get back as soon as I find time. Regards.
Ilir pz 12:07, 16 April 2006 (UTC)reply
No more blanking
Please do not replace Wikipedia pages or sections with blank content. It is considered
vandalism. Please use
the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the
welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Thanks. --
Asterion 11:48, 16 April 2006 (UTC)reply
pure harrassment, to make me give up from editing Albanian related pages. I ignore the comment fully.
Ilir pz 11:59, 16 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Suffice to say; when a British sees five Balkan men: a Serb, a Croat, a Greek, an Albanian and a Bulgarian. And all five give different versions. What I meant to say is that they will automaticly discard the non-Greeks and vouch the Greek version as the real one. That's what I mean. I was warning you that the Greek wikipedians are of high respect on wiki, and they are the only ones who are in the European Union and the NATO, as well as they didn't fight any wars. You would be wondered what I hear on Chat: dirty and stupid Serbs; they're both entirely fault for screwing up the Balkans and similiar, sorry for the usage of obscure language, but I was trully quoting...
You mentioned Bosnians. Didn't you mean Bosniaks? And not Kostunica and the Montenegrin government, but the FRJ and the UN. The man that was saying that was a UN official and the UN is, as I believe, the governing body of the Kosovo Province.
I explained the Serbian/Albanian. First one order at the beginning of the article and then the other at the other place to satisfy all sides. I apologized to you for the revert, but please see my facts on
Talk:Kosovo. All the best (trully, I mean this; no matter how much we disagree, you can always count on me to back you up, my friend :). --
HolyRomanEmperor 18:08, 16 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Sorry I dont have time to reply in detail. I am pretty busy these days. I see that it is becoming messy in Kosovo wiki :)))) Well, none wanted to listen to my suggestions. Now bear up with people who are less willing to compromise. That is how it worked, the way I predicted. I understood your point about the nationality in Wiki. Still I stand behind my words, I think ALL should have EQUAL rights anywhere, and especially in Wiki. Equality is the main principle democracy is built on. What chat rooms say, is not an indication about how to proceed in democracy. Chat rooms often gather irresponsible people. I am not sure what the right way of saying "citizens of Bosnia" whether it is Bosnians, or Bosniaks...checking fast here
[5] seems that I am right. But nevertheless. Not sure I see where you explained the "Albaian/serbian" thing. What was that about first of all? Too much to do, and really this is not my priority these days. Working on my thesis, instead! Not sure I can count on you backing me up, we seem to have quite opposite views on the most sensitive issue. How can you back me up? Talk soon,
Ilir pz 14:51, 18 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Montenegrins
This situation with the Montenegrin people is really complicated. Historically, Montenegrins were ethnic Serbs, and currently, most view themselves as Serbs in the cultural-linguistic-religious manor (Serbian Orthodox Church, Serbian language, Serbian Culture and Tradition). With regards, Serbia purged itself from Criminals of the old 1990s by the end of 2000. However, the currect Montenegro's President is the same man that stood outside the siege of
Dubrovnik, that followed Arkan to Prizren; that dispatched war parties to
Vukovar and
Sarajevo. So is the Montenegrin Premier. Additionally, they were Miloshevich's greatest buddies. The only reason for Montenegro's independence is to save the government from prison (Italy is prosecuting Milo Djukanovic for a long time for smuggling cigarettes and weaponry) and to create Montenegro into a Criminal Haven. The problem is that the Goverment is incredibly wealthy, as they are War Profiteers from the
Yugoslav Wars, and they never answered for their deeds. Practicly, not even 20% of Montenegro's citizens are ethnic Montenegrins in the real sence of the word, while over 70% are Serbs, either by nationality or other. The current government of Montenegro is in the likehood of Milosevic's regime and is practicly occupied the state and the people. That's why, the referendum is destined to fail. Polls say that there's a 70% chance that M will stay in the union and not even 40% of the population have voted for independence on the test-voting. --
HolyRomanEmperor 18:24, 16 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Serbia
Shiko të lutem mos po na vandalizojin Serbin e po e shkatrrojin artikullin, po menoj harten e Serbis dhe Malit të Zi në atë artikull. Dhe artikulli Prizren Party duhet zgjeruar dhe duhet shkuar se ai është bërë tradicional dhe festohet nga qytetarët e Prizrenit së bashku me ushtarët e KFORIT. Duhet me përkthye edhe tekstin e ftesës në anglish unë nuk po di.
Teksti i fotografisë gjendet i shënuar kur të shikon redaktimin:
Backing you up by encouraging you not to give up whatever you plan on doing and spreading good words to other wikipedians, naturally. I think that User:Hipi Zhdripi has really gone too far. Look what he wrote at
User_talk:PANONIAN or User_talk:The_Minister_of_War]]. Then take a look at the history of my User Page. He's really going to far, I think that a full-scale block from wikipedia might be the only solution.
But why did you mean Citizen of Bosnia? The Serbs (largest nation of BiH) wanted to live with Serbia; Bosniaks (most numerious group) wanted independence and Croats wanted to live with Croatia. That's why the war interrupted in the first place, so I assumped that you could only mean Bosniaks.
What do you think about the Montenegrins issue (my comments)? --
HolyRomanEmperor 19:29, 18 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Hehe I found time to reply, because some idiot woke me up too early with his loud music. I hope you can back me up with what you promise to do. Yeah, Hipi is a bit hyper. I tried to warn him, too. Not sure what the solution would be. I feel that all should be given a say, even if their language abilities are not superb. But personal attacks like his, or harrasment that I went through is not tolerable. Something should be done.
Not sure about this sensitive issue, whether they should be called Bosnians or Bosniaks. I thought Bosnians are the citizens of Bosnia, and the ethnic groups are called differently, like Croats, Serbs, and Muslims. As it says in
Bosnia"A citizen of Bosnia and Herzegovina, regardless of ethnicity, is usually identified in English as a Bosnian." and that is how I found in the dictionary I provided for you. Am I still answering your question? Not sure what the best solution for Bosnia would have been, really.
I don't have much information about the current Montenegrian leaders. I only know that they treated the Albanian minority much better than the Serbs elsewhere did. As a former ex-Yug republic they also have the right to have a referendum, and if its people support, they should be independent. As of whether they are different from Serbs, I can tell you that I never saw any difference. Actually Montenegro is the example of how Albanians were considered second hand people. Montenegrians with a population of Prishtina, and not compact one, were given a republic within ex-Yug, and Albanians with a compact population of almost 10 times more than Montenegro were left in an artificial quasi-province. No, my friend, I don't see any difference between Montengrians and Serbs, besides the way of doing politics.
Ilir pz 06:54, 19 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Well, yeah, Bosnian is an inhabitant of Bosnia and Herzegovina, while Bosniak is one of the three ethnic groups of BiH; so that's why you used it improperly in that sentence.
Ahh, the Republics issue. You see, Montenegro was not to exist. It was supposed to be a part of (coastal) Socialist/People's Republic of Montenegro. So, despite the number of Montenegrins, it was created for the purpose of decreasing the (possible) sizes of Serbia in the Federation, and to decrease the number of Serbs (Tito used little oppression in 1948 to make over 90% of the population to declare themselves as Montenegrins), so you see; there's nothing in numerality, but politics there. And as I hate to admit, one of the issues is simply because Albanians were/are not Yugoslavs: Serbs, Muslims, Montenegrins, Macedonians, Croats and Slovenes all are.
A pre-refferendum (poll) was already conducted. Although, not sure what you meant by As a former ex-Yug republic. All Yugoslav states sceded unconstitutionally except Montenegro. The Law said that a Republic is legitimate to declare independence if all the other constituent Republics agree. It was only Slovenia-Croatia/Croatia-Slovenia, yet they became independent (not peacefully, though).
Oh, I forgot a thingy: on
Talk:Kosovo you said: That would help me know as well. That is all. 165 seems to me to be a biased number. There aren't that many churches in total, including the Roman Catholic ones I think.
Well, the problem is that those 165 were only a fragment of the Orthodox Serb Churches and Monasteries on Kosovo. Too bad that those 165 included those 8 centuries old. Just before the arrival of the Ottoman Turks, there were around 1,300 on Kosovo alone. Islam and most-recent Albanian military movements (you must admit) have teared down that number, you must admit. For if not, today Kosovo would be the largest concentration of Orthodox Christianity on Earth (like it was). I think that if we count all the ruins of Churches and Monasteries since then, we would have at least by a half more than 1,300. Sincerely yours. --
HolyRomanEmperor 09:33, 19 April 2006 (UTC)reply
wowowow I don't like speculating with numbers taken from a history written by a bunch of nationalistic and illiterate people of the past. Why do you insist that I admit stuff I cannot verify? Why should I answer for whatever Ottoman empire has done? There are many Albanian churches that the Ottomans have ruined. Furthermore (if I use history like you do) there are allegations that before Slavs arrived in the Balkans there were many Albanian (Roman Catholic) churches that were later converted to Serbian Churches. These data are strongly supported by the Albanian Catholic Church of Kosova. As I mentioned many times before, I don't like messing with the history. That is a waste of time in some numbers that cannot be verified. Let us talk present. Such a nice name: Present, accept it like a present :))))
Ilir pz 19:36, 20 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Në lidhje me artikullin "Kosovo"
Unë kohëve të fundit po jom shumë i nxonun me obligime jashtë-kompjuterike, kështu që s'po muj me kontribu shumë. Por, duhesh gjithsesi mi kontaktu
rrjetën. Kta jon profesionista edhe kishin mujt me na ndihmu teper. Informacionet tjera i gjen atje...
Aeternus 16:05, 19 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Answer
sure we can talk here not in HRE's talk page. You said:
"Good if I provide you with it. ;) And yes I have. Maybe you only see what you wanna see? I've re-written alot of edits from people with only IP numbers, claiming that the country is called Kosovo i Methoija, etc. BTW why not answearing what I wrote to you on your talk page? Litany"
hehehe yes, you made my day, thanks a lot. check what you reverted "the country is called Kosovo i Methoija" hehehehehehe. I really thank you. Have a nice day!
Ilir pz 16:50, 20 April 2006 (UTC)reply
You are very welcomed. :) I think we have shared each other great joys of laughter during theese months. :) A big thanks to you too. :)
Hahaha an old mistake. You can kill me! ;) So I wait for your answear on my other edit on your talk page.
Have a nice day, and a nice friday and weekend if we will not be in touch.
Litany
Joys of laughter, indeed. Can you refresh the question, not sure which one you are asking. Thanks,
Ilir pz 19:30, 20 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Strange as it may seem
I think that Asterion's being a little rough on you. But then again, I can understand his attitude, and I believe that so can you. Did you notice how I keep staying cool and sweattalk to you? That's because you didn't say Somebody ban HRE vandal!!! for a few hundred times like you did in Asterion's case. Although, you have changed and I wish that Asterion could see that too. I'll note it on his talk page. I only wish that you try to be nice to him that you can work it out together.
P. S.
You stopped talking at the talk page. --
HolyRomanEmperor 19:36, 20 April 2006 (UTC)reply
who is being rough on me? I am not sure who you are talking about. I don't feel any pressure, thanks for caring. I like your attitude. That is the attitude I respect, and find time (in my busy life) to respond to. That is why I stopped calling you (much less than 100 times :)))) a vandal, that back then you seemed like, as you were conducting the same reverts as some who can still be called vandals.
p.s. In which talk page did I stop talking? Sorry, but I've been busy these days. I have a life:))
Actually, you never called me a vandal. And I revert your edits for 3 times, for the reasons mentioned above in a large span of time between them. :) You stopped talking on this talk page.
Brothers: Well, I've automatized my Wiki Account, so anyone that gets a load on my computer and goes to Wikipedia through the Internet uses the same Account (my brother and my aunt's son); it's really hard to stop them all the time... Anyway, only one of them is active recently, and I keep him from editing effectivly (don't wanna repeat that mistake again :))) --
HolyRomanEmperor 16:30, 21 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Good brother :)) Well take care of that account. Could cause you problems if misused.
Ilir pz 15:54, 24 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Kosovo-geo-stub
Hello Ilir - you wrote: Hello Mr. Dignan. I recently noticed your contributions to the stub issues related to all cities and locations of Kosovo. I am not sure your contributions would calm down the tension that already exists between the parties involved in the dispute. As much as I respect your professionalism, and your determination to comply to the Wiki rules, I would encourage you to think of compromising solutions when dealing with sensitive topics. As far as stub issue is concerned, for the topic I am addressing, I would suggest you initiate a "stub" modification for disputed territories, and not instead fuel up the tensions by following some rules, which are temporary always.
First, thank you for the compliments. Second, an explanation for the edits I made. Kosovo-geo-stub was deleted in December after discussions at
Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion and further discussions at
Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals. The reasons for the deletion were two-fold: firstly, in order to maintain as neutral a point of view as possible, we try to avoid having stub types for territories and regions with an uncertain political status or which are not recognised internationally. Secondly, it was feared that this particular stub type might generate edit-warring on the template itself and also on any articles which used the template (and indeed there was some edit-warring on several of the articles which had Kosovo-geo-stub). We thought long and hard about the "compromise solutions" that you mention, and arrived at one which we hoped would suit everyone. As you yourself must be aware, the one letter difference between Kosovo and Kosova is enough in itself to cause arguments. Unfortunately, it is very hard to please everyone, but it was the best we could do. It was felt that the stubs relating to places in Kosovo should be kept together and in some way separate from those of Serbia and Montenegro, in the hope that some decision relating to the region might soon eventuate. The way we have been doing that is this: as things stand, Kosovo is regarded as part of Serbia and Montenegro, but to say that it was Serbian might cause anger. therefore, Stubs relating to Serbia (excluding Kosovo) are given Serbia-geo-stub and those relating to Montenegro are given Montenegro-geo-stub (both these areas have well-defined and recognised borders, so there was no fear of edit-warring on articles using these stubs). Articles relating to places in Kosovo, however, were given an overall SerbiaMontenegro-geo-stub. In this way, they are listed together in one category but separate from those of the two federal regions of Serbia and Montenegro which are in subcategories. I realise this doesn't suit everyone, but as I said, it's the best solution we could come up with, and it's reduced the edit-wars on the articles. I hope that expalins why I did what I did, and I'm sorry if it's not a perfect solution (when dealing with matters to do with the Balkans, few things ever are!)
Grutness...wha? 15:24, 21 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Thanks Hipi but I am not interested in that topic.
Ilir pz 22:37, 21 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Nomination
Too bad that you voted neutral, I thought that you object nothin'... Could you presicely say why you objected?
Also, you "violated" a Wikipedia rule. I hadn't accepted my nomination yet. :)
Well, I'm keeping matters strictly proffessional. There is a 60% chance that they are the same user, and 40% chance that they're not, which makes me right in both cases :))) --
HolyRomanEmperor 11:39, 22 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Shortly: sorry about that "violation", I did not see any remark on that, this was the first time I voted in Wikipedia. I like to be neutral before I make up my mind about something. Sorry I did not have time to follow that process, seems like it did not end the way you wanted. About the percentages you use, I would encourage you to think of a 50% - 50% instead. As it is impossible to verify, I don't believe you are different from Asterion or Litany. In thoughts people can be similar, that doesn't justify rising suspicions. Keep improving your professionalism
Ilir pz 15:52, 24 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Actually, it can be checked: through the famous "CheckUser". --
HolyRomanEmperor 16:18, 26 April 2006 (UTC)reply
RRjeta
Ilir, lirisht kërkoju ndihmë atyre, sepse nëse ata vet nuk e bëjnë, i thonë dikujt tjetër që ta bën. --
Aeternus 14:40, 22 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Flm Petrit. Do te shoh nese nuk harroj, se kemi nevoje per perkrahje pak
Ilir pz 15:53, 24 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Make the projekt for Kosovo with PANONIA
Ilir provoje ta kriosh një projekt së bashku me PANONIN ashtu që të gjeni një zgjidhje për gjitha artikujt.
(transletit, is not correct but it mean the same)
Pleace trai to make a project with PANONIA to presant the both sei of Kosovo. I m going to trai to be neutral and support you two. Hipi
Cities
I changed templates on the Kosovo cities articles: removed reference to car plates since you said that all have the same, and changed "coat of arms" with "flag". Ok now?
PANONIAN(talk) 19:49, 24 April 2006 (UTC)reply
kosovo city maps
I have upload it at wiki commons. You can see there are 29 maps. the mape of Malisheva is not there beacose the order of this komun are not difenedet. In fackt this is in the Law. There are many new under (subdivisions) livel of this komuns but they must be pasentit as part of this komuns wich are in this time present. Dragash is now in two divesions (Dragashi and Opoja ? ) but in the livel of Kosovo they are one komune. Tung from vandal rebel Hipi.
Ups!!! The names in albanian L. are officel (atention! the extremes kosovars wont to use the new name). If you two needs somthing abou the images call me
[6].
Just letting you know that you voted twice at this RFA. I have striked you're original vote and kept the second vote and your decision.
Moeε 00:33, 26 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Re:Kosovo
Hi. I have not forgotten about the article :). I was just giving it time so that other users would get a chance to express their view on my proposal, since I'd prefer to act with consensus. However, if no one posts there within the next few hours, I will go ahead with the unprotection. It will happen today. Thanks for the reminder, though.
Redux 16:19, 26 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Template: Kosovo
Hi Ilir,
Why do you object so much to having Kosovo listed as what it is, a province of Serbia under UN administration? I have given you the facts and the sources and you have still been unable to provide a single one. I already explained you that an encyclopaedia is not a matter of personal preferences. As far as everyone is concerned, Kosovo is still part of Serbia and we need to show this as it is. Whatever happens next, wikipedia will reflect the changes, but at this point, you cannot simply call it a "territory" as this factually incorrect. Quoting from the
UN website: "...Within Serbia there are two semi-autonomous provinces, Vojvodina (21,506 km2) in the north and Kosovo and Metohija (10,887 km2) in the south.". I could go on but you already know all this anyway. --
Asteriontalk to me 20:58, 26 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Yo, you still refuse to read what sources I provide. I just want to be consistent with whatever laws are approved in Kosova.And constitutional framework is the main one. Should you not want to accept that, it is your problem. I have a fact, it is clearer than any source can be here. No time to waste with your nationalistic pushy revert war. bye
Ilir pz 21:02, 26 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Reminder
I have transferred discusion about Kosovo page from my personal to Kosovo talk page.
Discussion is not personal, so it belongs there.
If you have something personaly to say to me, please feell invited on my talk page.
--
Manojlo 16:42, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Discussion was partly personal, as YOU removed and added content according to your wishes. Well, keep removing them from your talk page, show your manners. 16:43, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
Thank you for protecting it from Manojlo! (the Kosovo article) --
HolyRomanEmperor 16:56, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
You are most welcome (if you are not ironic :))
Ilir pz 16:58, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Ironic? Well, now you've insulted me. :( --
HolyRomanEmperor 20:32, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Also, I added the "Metohijas" to resemble the Communist Yugoslavia period. The official name was (short) SAP KOSMET; and the shorter version was Социјалистичка Аутономна Покрајина Косово и Метохија. Why not call it by the then-offical name? --
HolyRomanEmperor 17:28, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I think Metohija part was removed from the name after world war 2. Correct me if I am wrong. And don't give me Serbian sources, again. Sorry if it was insulting to you what I said earlier.
Ilir pz 18:11, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
You removed Metohija from both before and after World War II. So, could you clarify? --
HolyRomanEmperor 20:32, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I noticed you reverted one part which I reformulated, based on the source
[7] that Slavs did not invade Kosovo until Byzantium Emperor died, that is year 1014. Indeed, the source says, they populated the surrounding areas, and their homeland was then considered
Rasca. Let me know what you think about it. Let us discuss more before just reverting. Manojlo seems quite prone to that.
Ilir pz 18:22, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Correction, that refers to the Serbs in presice. The Slavs (overall) have invaded Kosovo since the 500s, and since the 6th century they swarmed nearly every city (whole of Albania) un to the Peloponnesian peninsular. This is actually very interesting, because it presents that Albanians have really a lot of Slavic blood. To my personal opinion, if the Ottomans never conquered these areas, Albanians would be something like Bulgarians (non-Slavic origin Slavs). What do you think, my friend?
Where do you get the source for the "invasion since the 500s" ? Isn't the article
[8] saying something completely different? About the amount of Serbian blood in Albanians I cannot really help you, not sure I can quantify it. Mixed marriages have always existed, exist (a cousin of mine is married to one Serbian woman, and still live both happily in Kosova), and will exist in the future. What I can tell you is that these cases have been very rare, as it was always a tendency of Albanians to marry Albanians. I respect your opinion. My opinion is that if Ottomans never occupied the Balkans, Albanians would still be Albanians, but would have one label less "muslims".
Ilir pz 20:39, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Uhh, you again misinterpreted. Not "Serbian" - "Slavic". This is the second time that you read my "Slavic" as "Serbian". Stop it! ;) --
HolyRomanEmperor 20:51, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
;) I am sorry.
Ilir pz 20:59, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I will be obliged to report your reverting. I supplied more than enough relevant evidences for claiming that KLA is named terror organization. See discussion page of Kosovo ariticle.
Please, do stop. It leads nowhere. --
Manojlo 18:59, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
You supplied sources which say that ONE man once said that KLA was suspected to be terrorist. You did NOT provide ANY source claiming that NOW KLA is in any list of terrorist organizations. I did report you. Your reverts are leading nowhere. You damaged the consensus we had achieved in Kosovo wiki for a long time now. Thanks a lot, and hope you taste being blocked for some time.
Ilir pz 19:03, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Excuse the uninvited response, KLA was listed as a terrorist organisation up to 1998 by the US Department of State. However, as this is a general article about Kosovo, I think that should be reflected only in the
KLA article instead. We reached an agreement on this over a month ago. Regards, --
Asteriontalk to me 01:22, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Then I remove it from the main article, and add a (sourced from US State Dept) citation in KLA article.
Ilir pz 09:47, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
And don't give me Serbian sources, again. Uhh, I'm afraid I've got no idea what you're talking about. --
HolyRomanEmperor 20:30, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I just encouraged you to give me more neutral sources. Those historic dates about Serbian Empire glories have been written by biased Serbian historians, who were instructed to construct their data that way. 20:39, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
Aha! But what percise data about the Serbian Empire glory do you think is biased? I would gladly solve it.
Checking all those parts is a 24/7 job. All Serbian History part is full of details, yet no citations. I have no idea how all those stories were written in Kosovo article. I will have to do some school work, as well. But I will gladly point them to you in the near future.
Ilir pz 20:59, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
If you think it's bad, revert it. But I don't see anything bad - Kosovo was controlled by Serbia and Metohija by Montenegro...
I think it is more correct to say "Kosovo part captured by Serbs was unified with Metohija(Rrafshi i Dukagjinit in Albanian) previously captured by Montenegrins". I am all against putting labels over people, over lands. They are not watches to say Swiss watch. If you say Serbian Kosovo, where is Albanian Kosovo left there? You get my point? Formulation matters a lot.
Ilir pz 20:56, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
"Serbian" means "Serbia's" and not "Serbs'". I think you misinterpreted it wrong. For instance, I used "Montenegrin", even though if I meant by people I could say "Serb", so I thought that it was obvious. However, I do not agree with that you just proposed, since it repeats that Kosovo was conquered by Serbia and Metohija by Montenegro (a thing mentioned already before). --
HolyRomanEmperor 21:00, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
What's the difference? With my limited knowledge of English, I think that saying "Serbian Kosovo" does not mean "Kosovo part conquered by Serbia" but means "area belonging to Serbs/Serbia" and even if it doesn't seem to you, it is inflammatory as it gets. I have nothing against you mentioning that fact (providing source after it) and clarifying this fact. My clarification above was clear enough. What is wrong with that? If it is repeated before, why do you need to repeat it below then? remove it altogether, without putting labels that would change the meaning completely. 21:10, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
My page
Thanks. That's exactly the kind of frustration I'm trying to put into words! :)) Fuck Visas too! -
FrancisTyers 19:59, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
You're most welcome. I back you up in that initiative.
Ilir pz 20:00, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Answer
"Could you help me incorporate a field in the infobox of Prizren?"
You cannot incorporate any field into these tables if you do not incorporate that field into "Kosovo cities" template:
You should first incorporate new fields there and then into city tables which are in the articles.
PANONIAN(talk) 01:14, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Thanks Panonian.
Ilir pz 09:45, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Serbian Kosovo and Monentenegrin Metohija
The purpose of the sentence was to show that Metohija and Kosovo were reunited as Montenegro joined the Kingdom of Serbia. I'm sorry if I sound stupid, but I really didn't get what you said.
I mean, why do you think that there we say "Serbian Sanjak" and "Montenegrin Sanjak" - to differ them since it is split. I really don't know why you repeat something like that. Could you please clarify me some more? --
HolyRomanEmperor 16:08, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Read this drama: [
[9]] - note especially the parts connected to the Albanians. :) --
HolyRomanEmperor 17:40, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
:) Yeah, the attempt to make Albanians from Kosovo seem different from the ones in Albania was always the attempt by the Serbian nationalists. We actually have lived in different countries, have the same language, blood, history, customs, traditions. It is funny when some try to entertain themselves with the thought we are Skipetars, and they in Albania are Albanians :)))). As far as the point raised above, I think you should understand that with the explanations I gave. I understood what your aim was, to connect that part with the next sentence. But the label itself, is inappropriate. Just like it is used nowadays from those who are afraid of recognition of independence of Kosovo, and say "It will become Albanian Kosovo". You see my point?
Ilir pz 19:09, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Ahh, you didn't read the exact part I wanted you to read. Do not read those ignorent assistents of the Vladika, they're all just low-lives. Pay attention to what Rade himself says - "Arbanasi - to su raca stara" - you'll actually find that he connected the Albanians through the Serbian, Greek and Roman era - actually proving the domesticness of the Albanian people - you now, the "Illyrian" part. To my personal theory, that's just unrpoved romantic nationalist-driven theory - but that Albanians themselves are old as that, that I believe.
You don't need to thank me for the notice on Manojlo, it's my standard practise, that's what I do. That's what I did to you. :) --
HolyRomanEmperor 19:38, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Humble. I noted that part you said now. I am a history-pessimist, as I mentioned couple of times. I don't like it because it is misused often. It is something that fuels up nationalism in Balkans, unfortunately. That is why I dislike it. Apart from that, it is interesting, I like stories from the past, and how things worked.
Ilir pz 19:48, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I'm asking you then to rephrase the sentence, because with the "conquered" and "annexed" it simply doesn't look properly written. --
HolyRomanEmperor 19:43, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Hola, HRE, I gave the explanation of both those words, and how they exactly fit the sentence. It is in Kosovo talk page if you can find it there.
Ilir pz 19:48, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
The current "Kosovo were" is grammatically incorrect. Additionally, search the article for "Ottman" - it should be "Ottoman". Regards.
hehe that anthem seems like it is all for Kosovo. :))))I will check the grammar part. Sorry.
Ilir pz 19:52, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
That's the Montenegrin national anthem... --
HolyRomanEmperor 20:05, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I hope they don't approve that being the future anthem of Montenegro, it would be ridiculous. I am sure Djukanovic is smarter than that.
Ilir pz 20:08, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
national and state anthem? hmm sorry but I don't understand. I know that Albanians have one. And usually there is one, or I am mistaken?!
Ilir pz 20:31, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Well, the national anthem is the anthem of the people of Montenegro - they sing it on concerts and when they're cheerleadig in matches etc. It represents the People. The state anthem represents the Goverment and is sang strictly on political scenes. It represents the State. --
HolyRomanEmperor 21:00, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Interesting, so they sing about my town, Prizren, each time they have concerts and soccer matches? I did not know my town is that popular :))
Ilir pz 21:03, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
It's because it was the Imperial Capital. --
HolyRomanEmperor 21:08, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
And they still sing about it? Oh well, when I think better there are Albanian songs about Ulcinj/Ulqin as well, as it once was a part of Albania, before it was given to Montenegro by Large Powers. But not our national anthem, it does not have any cities mentioned in it, that are now a part of any other country. Never mind...history again.
Ilir pz 21:20, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I'm generally against creating new states - I stated that Montenegro's independence should be restored. However, Kosovo was never independent, so I can't apply my logic there. --
HolyRomanEmperor 21:12, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I guess your logic is against the creation of so many new countries in the world then, including USA, Canada, many Latin America countries, Austria, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Norway, etc. All these countries were not independent, and as such as they are now. Instead a rather more rational approach would be: recognize the facts that brought to the new reality, without prejudice if they ever were independent or not. Besides this logic of yours, what makes you oppose the independence of Kosovo? It has a defined map, a bloody recent past caused by the country that still has claims over it, has shown that it has the ability to self-govern (including 1974 province govts), more than 90% of its population have very different characteristics with Serbia, and so many other factors. So?
Ilir pz 21:20, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
No Problem
Hey no problem if you use the code. Only if it is not directly pro-Serb. Kosovo should be its own nation.
Kseferovic 21:32, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Thanks for everything.
Ilir pz 21:42, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
When did I say that I Oppose? I am generally against creating all states, since this is the age when states will be melted into larger and more powerful - like in Europe the European Union and the Russian Federation will probably do. I never said that I Oppose the independence... --
HolyRomanEmperor 21:31, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
You can still be independent state, and be a part of European Union, and have mutual benefits. That is the vision of all my compatriots. But from talking to Dutch, German and other friends I have in Europe, they still think some independence should be preserved in the country itself. Glad to hear you do not oppose the independence of Kosovo. Hope they don't call you a traitor, like they called Svilanovic former minister, and now member of
[10]Ilir pz 21:42, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Well, you can't expect them to change their national anthem just because it's historical; it would lose it's singing power ;) Also, I didn't know that Ulcinj was a part of Albania - when was it? --
HolyRomanEmperor 21:44, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Until by Berlin Treaty it was given to Montenegro.
Ilir pz 21:57, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
But you must understand me - I live for the day that there are no political boundries within Europe and that there is only one nationality in it - European and one currency -
Euro. --
HolyRomanEmperor 21:49, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Sure I understand you. I guess more Serbs should travel to get cured of "Kosovo myth". Not sure about the nationality European. That is still not very strong. Each nation identifies themselves as their origin, and are proud to say it loudly. In Kosovo we use Euro as well :))) I share your opinion as well. Tired of borders and visas, and all of that. But still, some identification should exist, so that locals solve their problems, and in a higher level they all meet in EU. That is my dream.
Ilir pz 21:57, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
...but Ulcinj wasn't a part of Albania before 1878, was it? --
HolyRomanEmperor 22:08, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Well, like all the rest, it was a part of the Ottoman empire, but Shkodra/Skadar villayet. 22:14, 28 April 2006 (UTC)~
sorry, but wasnt clear the thing above.
Ilir pz 22:45, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Thanks for taking the time to respond to my talk page. But still, I did not get a direct answer on the independence of Kosovo. Yes, no? "yes with a but", "no with because" etc. Read an interesting report. Quite neutral one indeed. If you wanna take a look at it
[11]Ilir pz 22:54, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Priština article
The links self-evidently don't work when they are coloured red. See link
[12]. The "Battle of Kosova" is one of many examples. I agree with the changes
Int19h made and his explanied reason for doing so. Best wishes
phildav76 08:43, 29 April 2006 (UTC)reply
sorry, but wasnt clear the thing above.Ilir pz 22:45, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
? What was confusing? Сваки Округ је бирао по два капетана за Велику Народну Скупштину Српског Народа у Црној Гори 1918 године. Али, у ново-освојеним територијама, добијеним након Балканскога рата - области гдје су Албанци чинили већину - сваки Срез (јединица Округа) је бирао по три Капетана.
Clear now? Hope that you could read all that without problem. ;) --
HolyRomanEmperor 08:46, 29 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Clear.Thanks.
Ilir pz 09:16, 29 April 2006 (UTC)reply
No comment?
<not sure what to comment about that, and what the purpose might have been.
Ilir pz 09:26, 29 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Also, the same is with the flags. This is how the Montenegrin national flag looks like:
and this is the state flag:
... as you can see, it's divided just like the athem. --
HolyRomanEmperor 09:25, 29 April 2006 (UTC)reply
YEah, I know the flags. Don't Serbs also have a white Eagle in some flag of theirs? It seems quite similar, exclude the 4 C's
What excludes the four Betas? Sorry, I didn't catch what you meant... --
HolyRomanEmperor 10:25, 29 April 2006 (UTC)reply
not betas, I said "c" letters, "samo sloga ..."
Ilir pz 10:32, 29 April 2006 (UTC)reply
No, no, no. Don't here mere legends. The "Samo sloga Srbina spasava" is a newly and (poorly) invented motto that has nothing to do with the ancient insignia. Anyway, you still didn't tell me waht you meant? --
HolyRomanEmperor 11:05, 29 April 2006 (UTC)reply
The purpose was to show how they treated new citizens of their Kingdom - with special privilages. :) Until they get used to living there. --
HolyRomanEmperor 11:56, 29 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Not a single source is found in Serbian history textbooks - in fact, they don't even contain anything about Kosovo. What percisely do you no agree with?
P. S. Why didn't you answer me last questions? --
HolyRomanEmperor 16:05, 29 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Hi HRE, I was busy with school, could not answer earlier. Please be a bit patient :) as I don't stay in Wikipedia all the time. I answered to you in prizren talk page, on your question. Not sure if that was your last question. If you take a look at the citations in Demography of Kosovo you see these sources, among some:
^
ISBN86-80029-29-7: Mirčeta Vemić: Ethnic Map of a Part of Ancient Serbia: According to the travel-record of Miloš S. Milojević 1871-1877, Belgrade, 2005
^
ISBN86-17-09287-4: Kosta Nikolić, Nikola Žutić, Momčilo Pavlović, Zorica Špadijer: Историја за трећи разред гимназије природно-математичког смера и четврти разред гимназије општег и друштвено-језичког смера, Belgrade, 2002, pg. 63
^ a b c d Politika: Шта се догађало на Косову, Belgrade 1981, pg. 159
^ a b c
ISBN86-17-09287-4: Kosta Nikolić, Nikola Žutić, Momčilo Pavlović, Zorica Špadijer: Историја за трећи разред гимназије природно-математичког смера и четврти разред гимназије општег и друштвено-језичког смера, Belgrade, 2002, pg. 182
^ Coordination Centre of Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and Republic of Serbia for Kosovo and Metohija
Please, what sources can travel records of some Serbian guy be, or history of a high school in Serbian, Politika magazine (the most hard-core nationalistic magazine in Serbian), or Sandra's (dis)coordination centre?!?! Please....
Ilir pz 08:52, 30 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Answer
Regarding demographics of Kosovo, I do not know much about that. However, demographics is only information from the last 1991 census to the present day. Everything before that does not belong to "demographics", but to "history" or "demographic history" sections. I could help with that. Regarding the districts, I do not understand what you suggest here. I did wrote there that they existed from 1990 to 1999. That automatically also mean that they do not exist after 1999.
PANONIAN(talk) 14:45, 30 April 2006 (UTC)reply
ehh, no. My last question was regarding the four Betas you mentioned. However, I neither understood what you meant by those references. Anyway, I'm taking a little wikibreak and self-blocking my account, so would you be kind if we moved and discussed to my talk page? That would be very kind of you. Regards and let me hear from you! --
HolyRomanEmperor 15:02, 30 April 2006 (UTC)reply
tung
Hi Ilir. I see you have your hands-full. I answered to you in my talk page. My advice to you, try to ignore some comments, not worth fighting against. Might be better. don't you agree with what I say? spare yourself of trouble. try to explain to whomever understand, who doesn't just ignore. Would love to help, but having health problems.
Leshkuq 00:32, 1 May 2006 (UTC)reply
also could you help me with some designing my personal page? that would be great. Just show me a link or guide. bye
Leshkuq 00:34, 1 May 2006 (UTC)reply
Hi Leshkuq. Finally I heard from you. Hope you get better soon. Feel free to get any code from my page. I talk to you soon then.
Ilir pz 09:34, 1 May 2006 (UTC)reply
Tung 2
Let the Holy play his game Holy puting oil in fire. Watch out. PANONIA hase right the best solution is to do like with
Georgia See
User talk:Hipi Zhdripi#Kosovo stub. The only problem is that in that part of the earth they dont have UN. But we must finde the compromise to finde the solution for this argument too. Dont loste your time with Holy and Manjolo account, they are not interesting to work and present the articl how it must. Make with PANONIA in the discussion side a work place for each articel and after they are finisht you two are going to prezent at the articel side. If the holy and Manjolo mix they nois ther then you two must make a project
West Balkan and nobody can destroyed your work. Let Holy to be Manjolo and Manjolo to be Holy. Ignor they me too.
At first you two must re-construt the Kosovo-geo-stub. I dont know here in en:Wiki how and who is respocibel for this. Please finde out wher is and start to make the geo-stubs
After that we need a new templare abot the 30 komuna.
After that you two must corporet with the peopel wich are resposebel about the Categorys and select they.
The cultur articel wich belong to the serbians kosovars, please lete under the direct category of Serbia. That is Respect for the church, not for the nationalist. During this time Im going to make the multicipaty map from year 2006--
Zhdripi Hipi 03:27, 1 May 2006 (UTC)reply
DO NOT EDIT OR POST REPLIES TO THIS PAGE. THIS PAGE IS AN ARCHIVE.
Welcome
Hello, Ilir pz, and
welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for
your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the Wikipedia Boot Camp, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type {{helpme}} on your user page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Here are a few good links for newcomers:
I hope you enjoy editing here and being a
Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the
help pages, add a question to the
village pump or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome!
Kukini 14:13, 10 March 2006 (UTC)reply
EDIT WAR
If you violate the
three revert rule, sysops may block you for up to 24 hours. -
Asterion 20:24, 11 March 2006 (UTC)reply
Oh no, what will I do then? please don't as there is no other way to come about that afterwards. Please, please!!! :) Thanks for the remark, I will try to do that in a 24hr+1min fashion. Just like those who revert it every time. :)
Please forgive me, Asterion, I will not repeat my mistake again :))))
Ilir pz 00:29, 22 March 2006 (UTC)reply
Serbophobia
Your opinion would be appriciated
here regarding deletion of the article
Serbophobia. Thanks --
Dado 20:18, 19 March 2006 (UTC)reply
Ilir, do you actually believe in what you are writing on the Kosovo page?
Gianni ita 21:55, 22 March 2006 (UTC)reply
No comments to you anymore.I don't like your cynism!
Ilir pz 13:17, 23 March 2006 (UTC)reply
Kosovo
Ilir / Ben uk / Mark ma or whatever alias you go by now. You do not own the article on Kosovo and you know that. Stop calling people vandals simply because we are trying to put the article in order and remove some of its heavy ALbanian extremist bias. Also, please learn some geography, as Andalusia is not in Chile, my friend. I really love your logic too: we are neither Serbian not Albanian, hence not "allowed" to discuss the subject but Serbs are not "allowed" to edit the article either. Got to love your democracy at work! Whether you like it or not, the Kosovo article is not meant to be a UCK mouthpiece. Regards,
Asterion 00:15, 25 March 2006 (UTC)reply
Asterion, Litany, or whoever you are. You are not trying to put the article in "order", you are just determined to defend serbian nationalism, and that means erase and change anything that Albanians contribute in the site. OF COURSE I can help you in that. I told you a long time ago, you cannot stop me. I am doing this for my country, and I will never get tired contributing. I never said Andalusia was in Chile, I just wanted you to understand (but blinded by serbian nationalism you seem to not be able to do that easily) that one person from andalusia OR Chile (read: who is not directly involved in the issue) should not just delete stuff. This article belongs to those whose country it is in question. I don't recall to have changed anything on the content of BRASIL or the Australia (check the comparison I make again). Oh another thing, I am NOT your friend. It is not democracy to not respect the main element of democracy: the right of Kosovo Albanians on self-determination. That applies to this article as well, we are the ones whom this article concerns the most. Oh and that sockpuppet campaign you have started, you are as ridiculous as one frustrated serian nationalist can be.
Ilir pz 11:27, 25 March 2006 (UTC)reply
Well, if Kosovo Albanians should have the right to form their own country, why isn't Republika Srpska a country? It's mostly Serbs who live there, why should Albanians have self-determination, but not Serbs? --
Serbiana₪ 08:11, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
How do you explain Albanians? a migrating gypsy nation from Azerbaijan who fought under Adolf Hitler, later under Soviet influence. Are not Albanians people who side with the best? you know like those people who suck dick to stay alive. Now they claim Serbian, Greek and Macedonian (Greek) lands, whilst Greeks were in the Balkans at least 4000 years, and Albania never existed. Greek feed your children, but you not humans, your sub-human animals that side with the winning side, a country with no history, no national heroes, except you steal other countries history and proclaim its your ancestors the "Illyrians", which is complete bullshit like Hitler's Aryan race. Anyways get a life, all Islam-o-fascists will be wiped out from Europe, sorry EUROPE DOES NOT WANT ISLAM.
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I specified that I just shrinked the original page to make it usable for the site, but it still did not work. Freely delete it. Thanks,
Ilir pz 11:03, 25 March 2006 (UTC)reply
Question
Why did you ask in the first place? --
HolyRomanEmperor 16:45, 25 March 2006 (UTC)reply
Så du kan norska, vad roligt! :)
Tyvärr må jag säga att det är ganska tråkigt när du skriker och gapar att jag vandaliserar och borde blockas. Jag tror inte du förstår vad vandalism är för jag är neutral tillskillnad från dig. Har jag någonsin sagt eller hotat med att ”stoppa dig” så som du hotat mig? Tillskillnad från dig så vet jag att alla är välkomna på wikipedia så länge man följer NPOV regeln.
Det är så patetiskt att du hänvisar mig till serbiska wikipedia bara för att jag bidrar med saker som inte går väl i hand med din fantasi verklighet. Du säger att du försvarar ditt land men du skadar det bara genom att förneka saker. Nationalism och extremism är inte rätt, någonsin.
Ingen bryr sig om att diskutera mina saker på diskussions sidan, alla bara bråkar, så varför ska jag bry mig om att skriva där först. Nu har jag förklarat mig nog för dig. Jag lovar dig också att jag ALDRIG kommer låta extremismen vinna! Jag har också gott om tid att vara på Wikipedia så du kan inte skrämma mig med att säga att du aldrig kan stoppas. :) Så det vore väldigt uppskattat om du blev mer öppensinnad och inte bedrev någon mera extremism.
Tack! :)
Litany
Stop removing content
Please refrain from removing content from Wikipedia, as you did to
Šar mountain. It is considered
vandalism. If you want to experiment, please use the
sandbox. Thank you. --
Dijxtra 20:55, 26 March 2006 (UTC)reply
OK
OK, but what provocative messages you meant? --
HolyRomanEmperor 15:55, 31 March 2006 (UTC)reply
I am not sure you are only curious when you ask "why then Kosovar users (including you) put this user supports the independence of Kosovo. Independent from what, if not from Serbia? from Azerbeijan?" type of question. I can only say that is provocation. You know quite well that recognition of independence of Kosovo by int'l community is needed, and that "support logo" is directed towards them. It would be desirable, but not crucial if Serbia recognizes it as well. So don't even think any Kosovar refers to "independence" as "independence from Serbia and Montenegro" but as an international recognition of the independence of Kosova. regards,
Ilir pz 16:02, 31 March 2006 (UTC)reply
I never provoke anyone. At least not intentionally. Why did you remove my post anyway? Additionally, if Kosovo needs independence, it means that it needs recognition that it isn't a part of another entity => Serbia, in this case. --
HolyRomanEmperor 15:29, 1 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I appreciate that you care so much to clarify this. I am sure Albanians in Kosova are the most impatient about this. I remove posts in my talk page, content of which is offensive to me. I want to believe your statement that Kosovo is a part of Serbia is just an April 1st Fools joke. So sorry for you and some other who are still blind to think that. Spare me of your unintentional jokes, please.Thanks!
Ilir pz 23:00, 1 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I feel sorry for all Albanians in Kosovo, too bad they don't have their own country... Oh, wait, yes they do, it's called Albania. Why do you seek to create a
Greater Albania, and call the Serbs nationalist? Why can't you live happily in Serbia, with your own president, parliament and autonomy? Is living in Serbia so bad? Compate Priština to Belgrade. Which city looks better/richer? Do you have any idea how much Serbian money goes into Kosovo each year? Why independence? And please, don't tell me "well, because Serb forces ethnically cleansed Albanians in Kosovo in 1998 and 1999", Kosovars have been pushing for independence since 1981, and the intention of Serb forces was to eliminate separatists.
You might get your independence one day, but you should never be proud of the way you got it. The world wants Kosovo to be independent so they can use your resources, all factories will be privatized, and Kosovars will be more poor than ever. This is not about Serbian nationalism, the issue is much larger in scope. I don't care about the Wikipedia article anymore, what frightens me is how there are a lot of people willing to become slaves of Western powers, and aren't educated enough to understand the basic principles of totalitarianism and globalization. That's why Serbia suffered bombings and world isolation, for not wanting to become "just like everyone else". Sadly, Kosovo will probably become just like India, Pakistan, Algeria, and all the other nations that separated from larger countries, and lived through hell, before they could be called "developing countries". --
Serbiana₪ 02:39, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
No comment. Ilir pz 08:14, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I expected you wouldn't comment. Keep dreaming of your Kosova... --
Serbiana₪ 08:52, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I am not dreaming of Kosova, instead enjoying every single day there, and will do so until I die. just check what kind of questions you ask?! Let me show you how separatists have been fought
[1], let the pics tell you. I am sure that if you have a little understanding you will agree with me that your other questions are as irrelevant, once you see some pics here.Ilir pz 09:24, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Këshilla shqiptare
Mos i shaj këta idiotat se mujnë me ta bo block. Shitu ma car, fol me fakte.
Aeternus 18:21, 1 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Cfare fakte o vella, a nuk po i sheh qe jane leshu nja 20 prej tyne, jane lidhe bashke, jo si na, vec une kam mbete tu shkru aty. Qe ma bojne block i boj nja pesedhjete emra tjere, sma nin fort prej tyne. Ropt ktyne....Faktet dihen qe jane ne anen tone, po keta gjithmone po i nderrojne shenimet, tu qite fakte anti-shqiptare, po i gjejne do prej kohes se milloshit. Ka nevoje per me shume njerez me ndihmu, se per momentin kerrqysh nuk i kena punet aty. Hajde me te mira! Pershendetje nga prizreni,
Ilir pz 23:49, 1 April 2006 (UTC)reply
3RR revert war
You are in danger of being blocked for violating the
3-revert rule. --
Serbiana₪ 00:43, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
So is Asterion and you. If I get blocked you should as well, as you are reverting constantly.
Ilir pz 07:52, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I wouldn't have to revert anything, if you didn't revert my every attempt to make an article more neutral. --
Serbiana₪ 08:08, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
It is obvious how ready you are to negotiate. I will just keep doing what you guys do all the time, I have no choice. Ilir pz 08:12, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Yes, I think it is very obvious. I told you several times that we should discuss an issue, and you just reply with "dream on", "my loving country Kosova" and now "no comment". Mark my words, you will be blocked one day, when you least expect it. --
Serbiana₪ 08:54, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
No use in discussing with you. You first revert, and then discuss. I have no choice, but to revert your changes, until you change that order.
Ilir pz 09:12, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Neutral point of view
Hi, please familiarize yourself with Wikipedia's
Neutral point of view policy, if you haven't already. It basically states that an article should include all sides of an issue, no matter how ridiculous you perceive them to be. Your edits made to the
Kosovo article were not neutral, such as your changes done to the History section. Take a look at the
Panchen Lama page for example - it lists the Tibetan one and the one appointed by the Chinese government. Many people (including myself) know that the Tibetan one is the only "real one", but to be neutral we have to include (what many see) as the fake one. After all, Tibet is in China. You see what I'm saying?
I hope you do, and that in the future we can work together to improve and help Wikipedia. --
Khoikhoi 09:02, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Thanks for the reminder. Not sure how familiar you are with the subject, Khoikhoi. I do not think you are that familiar to judge what is neutral and what not. Instead check the sources which I give, which are neutral. Whereas the people who you think are neutral in this case, use one-sided sources.
Ilir pz 09:14, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Hmmm, well I checked the History section for both versions of the page, and I only saw one source cited for both versions - it is a PDF. Am I missing something here? --
Khoikhoi 09:23, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Ilir, Khoikhoi is making a general point, and you are not getting it! You are pushing your own agenda without consideration for others. You have to look at every issue from a neutral point of view. Concerning the article about Agim Ceku, you repeatedly deleted the sentence where it says that he was indicted for war crimes by the Serbian gov't because you think its irrelevant. You can't just say that everything you write is neutral, when so many people are complaining, and only the Albanians are supporting you. Open your eyes. --Serbiana₪ 09:21, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Let's try to remain civil here, Serbiana. The only way we can get things accomplished is if we are calm and reasonable - this applies to everyone. --
Khoikhoi 09:23, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I agree, and I've told Ilir many times that we should cooperate in making the article more NPOV, and his his replies were "Very funny", "blla blla blla" and his famous quote - "Your edits will be reverted. You are nobody to decide which is more NPOV version.". So, how can I continue working with this guy if he continues to ignore me and my edits? --Serbiana₪ 09:33, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
You wonder why I ignore your comments? let me reply using some of your many offensive comments: "I feel sorry for all Albanians in Kosovo, too bad they don't have their own country... Oh, wait, yes they do, it's called Albania." "the intention of Serb forces was to eliminate separatists." "Keep dreaming of your Kosova", I don't waste my time with such ironic nationalists. I am a very understanding person for people who show a little understanding in return. Thank you, Ilir pz 09:42, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Is there anything that's not true in what I've said? There really is a country called Albania. Serb forces really did have orders to eliminate separatists. "Keep dreaming of your Kosova" was a response to you saying "Keep dreaming" when I mentioned that Kosovo is a part of Serbia, which it really is. So, what was your point when you were writing my quotes? --Serbiana₪ 09:47, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Sure there is truth, Albania is a country. What orders they had and what the serb forces really did on the ground could tell the pictures which of course you did not look at. Kosovo is a territory under UN Admin. Your quotes are as offensive as saying the killed civillians are terrorists, and it is offensive to me as I lost two cousins, one 70yr old, and another 7 yrs old. Not sure they could be labelled as terrorists. Don't waste my time, please! Ilir pz 09:53, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I'm sorry for your loss. I hope the soldiers who did that will be brought to justice one day and brutaly punished fro what they did. OK, as much as I hate to admit it, Serbs did commit terrible crimes in Kosovo, but wether it was organized from Belgrade or not, is not known. But we are not discussing that, we are discussing how you're looking at the situation from one side. Why did the soldiers do that? Did the Serbian gov't just say "Hey, lets go kill Albanians in Kosovo for no damn reason..."? --Serbiana₪ 10:01, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Are you justifying the killings of those civillians? So asking for human rights justifies killing of those innocents? And even worse to the families of the killed, they were trucked to a mass grave near the Serbian capital Belgrade, or Danube riverbed??? Hope you are not seriously thinking that. I am not all those soldiers that committed crimes will be brought to justice. Ilir pz 10:15, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
As I said before - you should contact an admin for help. Another choice would be to file an
RfC. --
Khoikhoi 09:35, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I understand your point Khoikhoi. Not sure which pdf you are referring to, but if it is the one I think, it is a book, not just a pdf, and the guy who wrote it is an expert in the field, and not Albanian. And boris, yes, what Serbian govt says is relevant only for the serbian minority in Kosova, and doesn't make more sense to Albanians than would a poster of CPC in the walls of Prizren before 1999. The abovementioned accusation on Gen.Lt.Prime Minister of Kosova is one-sided, and as Interpol withdrew that irrelevant accusation, it is not worth being mentioned. For the govt in Serbia all albanians are war criminals, so, I don't see the sense here to cite that source.
Ilir pz 09:29, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I don't see it, which book is it? I'm pretty curious. --
Khoikhoi 09:31, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I don't think all Albanians are terrorists, you can't just make an assumption like that. One of my best friends is an Albanian who lives in Germany, I'm still in touch with him. Nothing is just black and white, right and wrong. You must look at everything from both sides, at least in this encyclopaedia. --Serbiana₪ 09:36, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Neither do I think all serbs are terrorists. I studied together with some, and had a roommate from Belgrade even. The very important difference is that we were studying in an American univ. where they had access to neutral sources of information, and were away from the Tanjug dominated medias. Two of them, before we graduated apologized to me, because of what Serbs did to Kosovo. Of course I told them they should not apologize, as they are not guilty, it was enough they realized what the truth is, and that matters more. Unfortunately, when they go back at home, they cannot speak freely and say what they told me, as the brainwashing propaganda is still working. I am sure many in Serbia still think Albanians have tails, or all are short with mustache, and dark skinned. Funny as hell.
Ilir pz 09:46, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
What you're saying is partly true. I don't live in Serbia anymore, and most of my friends used to refer to Albanians as filthy, ugly people. I agree that some Serb forces ethnically cleansed Albanians from Kosovo, and yes, it may have been mass organized. And I wouldn't have anything against that information to be in the article. But, not to mention that Serbs were cleansed as well, makes me mad. I would never apologize for anything that soldiers did in Kosovo, because I personally don't feel responsible, since my parents always voted against Milosevic. This agruement can go on 4ever. Lets stop fighting and seriously think of a way to improve the Kosovo-related articles. 1st step - Do you recognize that Kosovo is a part of Serbia under UN control? (Yes or No) --Serbiana₪ 09:57, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
No. Kosovo is a territory under UN Administration. Read chapter one of
[2] constitutional framework of Kosovo:
1.1 Kosovo is an entity under interim international administration which, with its people, has unique historical, legal, cultural and linguistic attributes.
Until its status is defined, it is not a part of any country. Indications show that will not be the case in the future as well. Read Contact group statement number 6:
The Contact Group Guiding Principles of November 2005 make clear that there should be: no return of Kosovo to the pre-1999 situation, no partition of Kosovo, and no union of Kosovo with any or part of another country.
I am for referring to the official authority in Kosova as of now. Else, I will have to revert the changes you and others make, which are speaking with the language of the previous regime in Kosova. Thank you, Ilir pz 10:05, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Then we have nothing else to discuss. --Serbiana₪ 10:07, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
You don't like the Albanian version, neither the internationally recognized documents in Kosovo? Clearly identifies your wrong orientation. well, have a nice day then! Ilir pz 10:15, 2 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Hi Ilir,
This is a note I sent to a number of Croatian editors, but I feel that it might be of interest to you as the user in question has already been active on pages related to Kosova.
Just a short note to let you know that
User:WikiMB is, in all likelyhood, another account that has been opened by
Serbiana. Given the number of his edits and the approach he is using he is probably aiming at eventually getting adminship at Wikipedia which
Serbiana failed to secure on a couple of attempts for all the known reasons. Needless to say, this would have interesting consequences on our efforts to maintain articles related to Croatia. I had suspected this for some time, but I didn't have any proof until yesterday (April 2) when
Serbiana made a mistake of deleting a
Luka Jačov's comment left on
User:WikiMB's discussion under Re:Template. Luka Jačov appeared 5 minutes after this deletion and left a slightly modified comment. Pretty interesting tempering with another user's page on the part of
Serbiana. Of course,
User:WikiMB re-appeared 5 minutes later as if nothing had happened to add another PR remark. For more info check
WB's history page].
Ilir, të kam regjistruar në kategorinë "Wikipedians in Kosovo". Ja, shikoje:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedians_in_Kosovo
Thirri edhe shokët e tu kosovarë që të regjistrohen këtu, sepse vetëm kështu mund të bëhemi
bashkë kundër okupatorit.
Aeternus 15:47, 4 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Flm Petrit.
Ilir pz 09:50, 6 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Please see Wikipedia's
no personal attacks policy: There is no excuse for personal attacks on other contributors. Do not make them. Comment on content, not on the contributor; personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that you may be
blocked for disruption. Please
stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thanks, --
HolyRomanEmperor 22:46, 4 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Do not remove warnings from your talk page, for it is considered vandalism
This is your last warning. Removing warnings from your talk page is considered vandalism. You will be
blocked from editing Wikipedia and your talk page will be protected from editing if you do it again. Thank yous --
HolyRomanEmperor 22:46, 4 April 2006 (UTC)--reply
Point of protocol
Please understand, Wikipedia has Serb editors and Croat editors and Slovene editors and Bosniak editors and Kosovar editors and Guatemalan editors and Paraguayan editors and Danish editors and Rwandan editors and editors who are in the scientific camps in Antarctica.
You - all of you - must learn to get along with each other. This is not a battleground; it is an encyclopedia. The truly violent people aren't here. If angry people cannot learn to control their tempers - despite how justified that anger may (or may not) be - then they will be blocked from editing.
Removing the warnings from your talk page goes against protocol, as it could be interpreted that you are attempting to deceive the administrators into thinking you have not committed any previous infractions.
DS 01:10, 5 April 2006 (UTC)reply
What dragonfly67 said is completely true. While you may feel that warnings are biased and unfair, it's best to discuss your feelings below it rather than removing them entirely. Any admins who would see those warnings would see your response and be able to determine if any further action is needed. --Rory096 04:15, 5 April 2006 (UTC)reply
thanks for your info Rory and DS, I appreciate your clarifications. Still I consider these warnings of those other two to be their personal problem, and it seems as if they're vandalizing my talk page on purpose, to make me give up on the issue which we are trying to resolve together. DS, I am not sure that truly violent people aren't here. True that they cannot cause any physical harm, but they are here to vandalize and revert everything that is encyclopedia, facts backed with sources, which I try to do all the time. Anyways, thanks for the notes.
Ilir pz 09:23, 6 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Peace
OK, Ilir, the comment above makes sense... Kosovo is governed by the United Nations, and it's status is unresolved. I won't push for the "Kosovo is a part of Serbia" anymore... This bickering is leading nowhere, and I've decided to just let go of some opinions that have been probably subliminaly engraved in my head by the previous Serb government. Let's forget about what was in the past, and look forward to a better future where, hopefully, Albanians and Serbians can live together in peace. Will you forgive me for being an ass? --Serbiana₪ 01:48, 5 April 2006 (UTC)reply
That is encouraging to hear. I am sure we are going to be able to live together again, never doubted on that. I know that there are many smart Serbs out there, and I met plenty and made friends with them. No need to ask for forgiveness. I would encourage you to "infect" Asterion and HolyRomanEmperor with your new rational way of thinking. He keeps vandalizing Kosovo site still, with those meaningless changes which he is so stubborn at. I will have to revert that to a previous version, and then start discussing. Hope to see your rational contributions in practice in the future. Regards,Ilir pz 09:29, 6 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I am pleased to see that you are not of the viewpoint that every Serb editor is wrong simply because they are Serbs. I would like to suggest, for controversial articles, that you use the following format:
"Here is what both sides agree on. This is a controversial subject, however - here is the Kosovar viewpoint, (X) (supported by sources 1, 2, and 3), as opposed to the Serb viewpoint, (Y) (supported by sources 4, 5, and 6)." Sound good?
DS 14:17, 6 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I appreciate your initiative. I will forward this to the "Hot" area :).
Ilir pz 16:29, 6 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I tried in the kosovo talk page, I failed. Too many hot heads. None even read what I proposed.
Ilir pz 17:37, 6 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Ilir, I have decided not to edit Kosovo-related articles anymore, I might leave comments on the talk page, but thats it. I'd like to infect others, but I believe thats something they have to figure out for themselves, like I have. Also, in honour of the end of hostilities between you and me, I will post the Albanian flag on my user page for 1 week. --Serbiana₪ 03:38, 8 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I cannot...
...do anything if you keep it up this way... --
HolyRomanEmperor 19:39, 6 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Note that I am intent on removing your post from my talk page, because you simply didn't source it. Strangely, you put it after my warning for your continuous personal attacks against the Wikipedian Community, so this can only be interpreted as a frustrating revenge.
P. S. If you think that admins just look through that image and if you think that you will create a bad stereotype of me that way, you're wrong, I beg to differ, my Kosovar friend. Because other users will see if your warning is based on firm grounds (which isn't, since you didn't source it), and when they see my warning to you, they will see your personal attacks. I hope that this explains a bit how things work on
Wikipedia (please see the article), and hope to see good will from you from now on. As a token of my good will towards you, I will not remove your avenging baseless threat.
Yes, it seems he is being busy slandering other wikipedians whom he disagree.
Ilir also left an unreferenced warning on my talk page. I think the solution will have to be arbitration at the end. The outlook is pretty similar to that on the
User:Gibraltarian case, who ultimately got banned for his actions. Apologies to you,
HolyRomanEmperor, for not intervening in the ongoing discussion but I have been very busy lately. I shall, nevertheless, get back to this later on this weekend.
Asterion 02:24, 8 April 2006 (UTC)reply
O Ilir
A osht shka qyky HolyRomanEmperor-i a? Nëse po, vetëm tregom, ja tregoj unë atij se ku e ka vendin!
Aeternus 16:33, 8 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I rrast :)), po mos ia prish faqen a najsen, vec mushja me shenja qe e kercenojne per prishje te faqes se kosoves. Nuk ki nevoje me ba far gabimi se ta ndalojne hyrjen ne Wikipedia.Pershendetje e mireseardhje, Petrit
Ilir pz 21:12, 8 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I heard of such rules each province has. Sounds to me like US, or Germany, where each unit of the "state" has their own laws. The other day I heard that some German friend of mine, she could not work in another "land" unless she marries someone there, or get a permanent residence. Even though the other land's school was closer than her own land's :))) Weird laws sometimes. Would be nice to see that documentary. Let me know about the link, once you decide to share it. I lived in
Ocean City, MD. It is a really lovely place. Was seeing dolphins every morning at the ocean. Amazing. Good old times. Miss that. Sorry to hear about the bakeries. Now I will have to do some school reading, before going to bed. Good night would be "Naten e mire"(nuhten e meer), as it is after midnight here now. Cao,Ilir pz 22:52, 8 April 2006 (UTC)reply
First of all, I am not Serbian. Second of all, please point out why would someone consider that? I never used words like Serbian fascists or similiar (unlike you, my friend). I've never had issues with Albanians, two wiki-Albanians (one contributing to the Serbian wikipedia) are my best wiki-companions, and the first time that I have problems is with you. Hopefully, this is just a temporary misunderstanding, chump. :) If you find any offense whatsoever, please point it out to me so that I can correct errors. My non-contributing work? I greatly expanded the article and repairded unendigly bad grammar. You, on the other hand, keep fighting a revert war against the Wikipedia Community restoring the age-old inconsistent version of the article. And the article's name's not Kosova, but Kosovo. This is not an insult (as you may have understood my every single word), but a note to the name of the article. --
HolyRomanEmperor 23:40, 8 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Oh, and I never cherish hatred to anyone. Fate and conscience will destroy the sinful, so I do not need to hate even them. :-) I would ask you of been full of hatred, rather. You animously react to the intention of mentioning Metohija, even though it's used in the world, and you keep acusing the Serbs around Wikipedia to be fascists and try to avert control over Wikipedia and other users to you. I never did such things.
As I said, I hope that the things will change!!! :) Best regards, my friend! --
HolyRomanEmperor 23:59, 8 April 2006 (UTC)reply
If you are not a Serb and adore Serbian nationalism, that is still your problem, not mine. I don't remember to have used the word fascists for Serbs, but I sure would use that word to those that made our lives hell for decades. That is a mild label for those. If you are not in that group, don't feel offended. Contributing with one-sided facts, fueled with nationalism, is called non-contribution, chump. I also hope this is a temporary misunderstanding, as hopefully you become more rational and read rather neutral sources, not those written by and translated by Serbian academy of Science, or alike. Please, for your sake. I don't care to change your mind. KosovA will become independent, no matter what you or other nationalists wish. As of not having issues with serbs, I will just tell you that I had a roommate a Serb from Belgrade, and other friends as well. Recently, even in wiki. I am having problems with you an a couple of extreme-wing nationalists who are sworn (or paid) to vandalise the KosovA page. Metohija is used by Serbs only, it is not official. I react animously ha? And then you say you don't offend. Nice one. Keep expressing yourself. Hope your funds (or your irrationality) stop soon. greetz, Ilir pz 00:09, 9 April 2006 (UTC)reply
OK, could you think that maybe you're wrong? That maybe you're a nationalist, and not me? Or perhaps we're both nationalists, just we don't realize that. I showed to you that Kosovo-Metohija is used in the world just as so is Kosovo.
You have said numerious times that no one believes the censi published by the government of Serbia and you keep telling me not to use Serbian sources, nor anything from the Serbian Academy of Science. I listen to and believe what Albanian factions say. Why can't you believe the Serbs then? Aren't you a bit one-sided 'ere?
Here, for instance, you said Stop the nazi-like serbian nationalism and I saw other sayings. I, on the other hand, never use them or alike.
I saw that you're full of understanding on
Talk:Kosovo, so I thought that you really wanted to discuss; but you just gave up and continued the revert war. Why? --
HolyRomanEmperor 00:34, 9 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Please, note that I noticed numerious teh instead of the; there were articles missing at many locations. On one place, it said that Stefan Nemanja was a Croat, and it said that according to De Administrando Imperio; both of these being incorrect. It called the Russo-Turkish War as the Serbo-Turkish War instead and said that 12,000 Albanians died in the most recent Kosovo War, when that's the total (9,000-10,000 Albanians and 1,000-2,000 others, mostly Serbs and some Romas). Numerious links were broken leading to nonexistent external pages and articles or even worse (the word that bears the link doesn't exist at all). ANd you're reverting from my version that corrected all that to the one that has those mistakes? Also, I wrote a very large part of History and sectionize it, it's against wikipedia's policy to have such large sections. And why do you think that that age-old version that's nearly broken is better (superior) to our (Wikipedians') new one, my dear potential friend? --
HolyRomanEmperor 00:44, 9 April 2006 (UTC)reply
As of being a nationalist, there is nothing bad with that, as long as that doesn't mean vandalizing pages of others, like the nationalism that feeds you is doing. Nice barnstars you're exchanging with Asterion. Is that Arkan's emblem or it only seems like? Not sure about potential friendship. You are too extreme. Still a member of "nebeski narod". When you land in Earth, where people think earthly, and accept the reality (read: KOSOVA will become independent by the end of the year) maybe I can consider it. I appreciate your changes, dealing with Nemanja being serbian or croat, I don't care about that. Of course helping with "hte" and "the" is kindly appreciated. But most of your changes are not of that nature, on the contrary- INFLAMATORY to extremes. Why did I stop discussing in talkpage:Kosovo? you tell me. I proposed compromises couple of times, none read them. Amongst them you, just continued reverting. So of course I gave up. Let us see how this goes. I am ready for as long as it takes. I've sworn myself to dedicating my time to Wiki Kosova and make it neutral and clear for whoever is interested to read in it.
Ilir pz 10:44, 10 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Please see Wikipedia's
no personal attacks policy: There is no excuse for personal attacks on other contributors. Do not make them. Comment on content, not on the contributor; personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that you may be
blocked for disruption. Please
stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thanks. Sceptre(Talk) 14:17, 10 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Ilir, please be calm. You said exchanging? To exchange means that I give him and he gives me. But, did I give him? No, I didn't, my friend. I don't know why you mention a man that killed my friends and tortured my kin (Arkan). Nebeski narod? What does that mean? I am a historian, and I don't care about the future very much, only the past. Note that it is I who told you that Kosovo will probably become independent, even though the International Community said that it will not support it. I keep reverting? I only restore Litany's and Asterion's versions, since they keep the corrected grammatical errors (and others that I failed to mention), unlike you, that kept returning the broken version. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, but I took you for a vandal when I saw you keeping restoring foolish parts of the article.
P. S. I know that some Albanians use the word Kosova, but why do you enforce it? You wrote KOSOVA with all capital letters. As I don't mind it, I note to you that the English version of the word is Kosovo. Regards. --
HolyRomanEmperor 17:55, 10 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Agin Ceku
Yes, I know that he was labelled that way; but hey, after the
Yugoslav Wars, Slobodan Milosevic was Man of the Year according to New York Times and even a Nobel Prize of Peace candidate suggested by the British government. The UN Chancellorship decided to give him a seat in the UN office for his work. But remember what is Milosevic? The greatest criminal of modern Europe... --
HolyRomanEmperor 19:00, 10 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Kosovo
Sorry, I wasn't aware that that anon was you. I'm going to stay away from that page, and most Balkan-related articles for that matter - I'm trying to not get myself involved in more controversies. --
Khoikhoi 23:26, 10 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Anon = "anonymous user", as in someone who either is not logged-in or doesn't have a user name. --
Khoikhoi 23:31, 10 April 2006 (UTC)reply
An anon looks like an IP address. Anyone with a user name isn't an anon. --
Khoikhoi 23:40, 10 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Hehe, you and I are both registered users. --
Khoikhoi 23:44, 10 April 2006 (UTC)reply
What? Calm down man. Let me clarify - I reverted an anon. You then left a message on my talk page saying don't revert. I then said that I didnt' know that the anon is just you when you are not signed in. That's when I said I wouldn't revert anymore. Why are you mad? --
Khoikhoi 00:02, 11 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Do the anons also count for 3RR?
Asterion 00:24, 11 April 2006 (UTC)reply
If you can prove that the same person did the reverts (that the anon is the person as the user in quetsion) then yes, the anon also counts. --
Dijxtra 17:13, 11 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Reply
I hope you really have changed attitued but the templates on your
user page may talk for it self. I can guarantee you too that I will continue fight against extremism, of any kind. I hope you understand that the Albanian extremism you are contributing with are not any better than the Serbian others are contributing or any extremism at all. Do you find me a serious threat just because I not support extrem nationalism? I must revert the Kosovo page sadly since you delete very important information but I agree with you on other things about the page. See
Talk:Kosovo for explanations.
You have previously not answeared my reply on your talk page nor on the Kosovo talk page. I hope we could work something out as always. There is no news about that. My best,
Litany
Litany, you claim to be neutral but you "sadly"(as you say) revert the same way those that are well-known vandals do. You call me an extremist just because I think different from your revert war friends? Not fair from your side.
Ilir pz 19:26, 11 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Ilir pz, how many times have you called me a vandal? How many times how you reverted my edits without taking notice about the source and truth in the information. Whatever I would say, you would refer as Serbian Nazi-Propaganda. Please belive me when I say that I'm not a supporter of Milosevic, (and I have good reasons), but still I can talk negative about UCK. I like Albanian history just like I like Serbian, Croatian or Swedish. We need to discuss open in a forum and I'm willing to listen to your opinions but I also demand that you listen to mine. I'm always interested to learn and see things from other pionts of view. I hope you are too but if you close within and not listen I must SADLY ignore you. My best
Litany
Vandal is one that just reverts the other side without giving (other than 1244 holly document says) facts. I try to explain in the talk page, but before I even click "save page" there, someone (you, HRE, or Asterion) has already reverted what I added. Simply. That doesnt leave any space for me to manouver, I get tired of explaining. I am glad you like Albanian history. Unfortunately, that is something I don't believe in and instead blame for all that is happening. It is a bunch of documents which the sides in a dispute fabricate accordingly. I can also talk negative about UCK. BUT for those that committed crimes. I've had plenty of UCK soldiers, who were related to my family, and they had never touched a Serbian innocent family. There is a saying "in every forest there are wild pigs". I am not protecting the wild pigs from my nation either. I despise them more than the Serbian criminals who horrified my nation. I wish I had more time to discuss with you in any open forum. I listen to others opinions, yours as well, as I always liked studying humans and their behavior, but I am tired of explaining to people who obviously seem so brainwashed as to support a Milosevic party, the one who horrified all nations of ex-yug(read: Asterion). You have to understand my tiredness, I wasted 19 years of my life dealing with such.
Ilir pz 10:19, 13 April 2006 (UTC)reply
History for Litany As you mentioned you are interested in history, maybe you find it useful to check this article or book
[3]. Regards,
Ilir pz 10:50, 13 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Yeah I know pretty well what a vandal is since I've meet alot here on Wikipedia. By reverting important NPOV facts by screaming and stating that its propaganda, even ithout proof, then you are commiting vandalism. That kind of behaviour dosent leave anyone any space to manouver. If you dont belive me or my intentions it's your loss. I understand your tiredness, but that must not (and never) be reflected on your wikipedia work. Read facts from different POV and follow the NPOV rule when you edit. My best regards,
Litany
Thanks for the link to the article. It's always useful, but I've allready taken part of this one.
Litany
M'fal që po dal prej temes
A e ngon ti John Lennon-in a?
Aeternus 18:59, 11 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Ska gje Petrit. E ndegjoj Lennonin nganjehere, i ka disa kenge te mira fort. Fat i keq qe u vra, :(. ty a te pelqen?
Ilir pz 19:22, 11 April 2006 (UTC)reply
You have been temporarily blocked for violation of the
three-revert rule. Please feel free to return after the block expires, but also please make an effort to discuss your changes further in the future. The duration of the
block is 24 hours.
William M. Connolley 21:06, 11 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Yohoe, I found out I was blocked, after the time I was blocked passed. This technically means I never felt the block. Thanks for your contribution Asterion. Seems like it had no effect, but anyways. It was an unfair one, as the (suspected sockpuppet)
User:NikX reverted many more times, and (surprisingly) used the same language as Asterion, harsh, and arrogant. Cheers,
Ilir pz 22:58, 12 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Re: Peace? When were we at war in the first place, my friend? :)
I'm sorry, but I can't remember fighting a war against you. ;) I only made several additions to the history, and reverted three times to my version since you restored the broken version. I said that I took you for a vandal, because you only said "Nazi-like Serbian propaganda" and kept change the to teh, adding false arguements in the history like Nemanja's Croatdom and other total nonsences. How did you think I would characterize your edits? Ofcourse, I will take a part of responsibility in the misunderstanding, naturaly.
You didn't understand my comments? You said: Nice barnstars you're exchanging with Asterion. You will note that I haven't given him any barnstar, how're we exchanging then? Then you said: Is that Arkan's emblem or it only seems like? Arkan is a murderous thug that executed a bunch of my friends and family, and is a xenophobic hater of everything that my (recent, don't ask ;) kin/people stands for. I understood that you not only like Albanian criminals, but also Serbian/Yugoslav? That post seemed like all you care about are killers. What did Nebeski narod? mean?
About the Milosevic part, well; the entire world in the first half of the 1990s recognized him as the peacekeeper of the century, and yet he is the greatest bad-guy of modern Europe. You also said that Agin Ceku was rated by someone (I was drawing a parallel). Note, that Ceku said that he cannot guarrantee the status of Serbs if Kosovo doesn't get its independence. So, if Kosovo doesn't get its independence, the Serbs are doomed, and if Kosovo becomes independent, they're surely done for. What kind of a Premier is that, threating (note, that is a threat) the World? I thought that only Miloshevich had the guts to go that far too much.
I would gladly continue the discussion, but here, on your talk page, instead. Now, I'm all ears, my friend. :) --
HolyRomanEmperor 21:45, 11 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I am not sure you are right. You kept reverting my changes constantly, maybe not only you, for that you are right, my friend. Yes, that emblem looked exactly like of some Arkan guys that I saw in my city. That he is a murderous thug, I know that from experience, I told you once I lost two cousings, a child and an elderly man. It was his "elite" who did it. I am sorry he affected you as well. Hey hey, you offend again, I don't like criminals, wherever they are from, I despise them. Especially if any of them is Albanian, it makes me feel more hate, ok? Don't tell me you don't know what nebeski narod stands for, please. That would be very disappointing to hear. Ceku's word is a fact. He has not many powers, as much as 3rd or 4th person in the hierarchy of a state has. UN SRSG is the most powerful there, there is no intelligence service, and he cannot exert his powers to protect them. That is why independence would give him more powers to do that. He is not threatening the world. That is the reality. And yes, of course, the people of Kosovo cannot stand the status quo. You cannot live in a hold for decades like we lived in the past 20 years, asking what is happening tomorrow. It HAS TO be decided soon what, and indications show the will of the majority of people of Kosova will decide. Serbs are not doomed if they accept to live with their neighbouring Albanians, like they did before being brainwashed by Millosheviq. I strongly believe there is hope. OF COURSE the criminals who committed crimes will have to pay for their crimes, and cannot return to the crime scene, so those Serbs are not ever welcome in Kosova again. So, my friend, if you read this that I wrote at all, call your reason before you judge me and revert all my changes. Remember, I always give a reason for what I do, a life moto of mine!!!Ilir pz 10:06, 13 April 2006 (UTC)reply
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Jkelly 01:20, 12 April 2006 (UTC)reply
The copyright holder is usually the creator, the creator's employer, or the last person who was transferred ownership rights. Copyright information on images is signified using copyright templates. The three basic license types on Wikipedia are
open content,
public domain, and
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Wikipedia:Image copyright tags and place it on the image page like this: {{TemplateName}}.
Please signify the copyright information on any other images you have uploaded or will upload. Remember that images without this important information can be deleted by an administrator. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me, or ask them at the
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Jkelly 01:21, 12 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Futa njo që e ki bo vetë dhe që nuk është i lejuar ndryshimi.--
Hipi Zhdripi 23:19, 12 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Invitation
Hello Ilir! I invite you to join the
WikiProject Serbia. I'd really appreciate it if you joined us :) All the best, --
serbiana-talk 04:07, 13 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I really have no idea what nebeski narod stands for. Where you reffering to some mentions of Serbs being a Heaven People? :)))) I've heard this; but only from one Serb (out of 10 million) and he lives in a mental institution...
Seems like there are many such, like all those that think Kosova is ever going to be in any kind of union with Serbia.
Ilir pz 21:49, 15 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I might add that I lost my (only) sister...
My condolences.
Ilir pz 21:49, 15 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Agin might not've threatened the world, but he sure did make a threat. Please just read what he said. If Kosovo doesn't get it's independence, I cannot guarrantee the rights of Serbs. That means that Kosovo must be independent, whether anyone (including the whole Kosovar people) liked it or not. How's that not a threat? Anyway, I already pointed out to you the many mischiefs that Agin Ceku did, so his word simply cannot be trusted. Can we trust the words of Milosevic?
Not sure about PM Ceku's past (before 1999), so I cannot speculate. That what he said is not a threat from his side. It is a fact. If Kosova does not become independent, more and more instability is to come. Unemployment will rise, and conflicts will erupt. I would suggest you to read this article
[4].
Ilir pz 21:49, 15 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I feel that this is the main issue. Slobodan Milosevic's dead and his War Party dispatched to the Hague tribunal. Franjo Tudjman's dead and the nationalism long over. Islamic aggressiveness died out in Bosnia with Alija Izetbegovic. Everyone purged itself. Serbia even had a Democratic Revolution led by Zoran Djindjic (who was, sadly, assassinated). The only last bit to purge (aside from Radovan Karadzic still on freedom) is Kosovo. Sadly, something totally reversed happenned there. Ibrahim Rugova, the only man that stood between Albanian terrorism and Serbian aggression is now dead; and the still living vultures of the wicked 1990s Yugoslavia are now consuming Kosovo, most certainly leading it to the path of temporary (but very long) failure. I'm reffering to Agin Ceku, Ramush Haradinaj and Hachim Tachi.
Rugova was not the only peaceful man. I refresh your memory, he always won the majority of votes. So we are talking about the majority of Kosovars, right? Who are you referring to as Albanian terrorism? Which independent court accussed the above three that you mentioned as terrorists??
Ilir pz 21:49, 15 April 2006 (UTC)reply
However, I simply disagree that there is future for the ethnic Serbs on Kosovo. Either way, the Serbs are going to pass badly and so are the 1,000-year old Monasteries. It's simply done. Milosevic fused (Greater) Albanian nationalism by killing 9,000-10,000 Albanians and evicting over 700,000. This resulted in 1,000-2,000 dead Serbs and over 100,000 Serbian refugees altogether. After 1999, the situation got worse, as 300,000 (the majority being Serbs) were practicly ethnicly cleansed by the Albanian paramilitary forces. Remember the 2004 March Pogrom? 156 Orthodox Churches and Monasteries were destroyed, the most magnificent of the surely the Monastery of Saint Archangel from Prizren from the 14th century or Our Lady of Ljevis also in the vicinity from the 12th century.
I still strongly believe that Serbs (who did not commit crimes in Kosova) will be able to live in Kosova as equal citizens of free and a democratic country. About churches, they can be reconstructed, and Kosova's government has that program. Albanian religious sites and houses were torched during the war as well. In march 2004 there were some Albanians who got killed as well.
Ilir pz 21:49, 15 April 2006 (UTC)reply
That desecration is the greatest cultural desecration of modern Europe. Not a single land like Kosovo was decapitated of its most richest cultural (1,000 year old!) remains in Modern Europe. Things have continued to take its pace, and trust me; let's accept the truth once. There is no future for the Serbs on Kosovo, nor for the 800-year old Serbian Orthodox Church, neither for the Serbian language. It's just plain facts.
P. S. Oh, and I just viewed the entire history of Kosovo. I only reverted your edits twice, both of the time when you restored mass inconsistencies, grammar errors, self-contradictory facts and broken links... and both were very long ago, with a very wide time-gap. So, where's this you keep reverting? :) --
HolyRomanEmperor 14:16, 13 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Hippi Zhdripi and the discussion
I would wonder and treat carefully why you gave him a star... Please see
Hipi Zhdripi. He has been conducting anti-Albanian propaganda by removing the Albanian naming of the entire entity and its capital city, rm the official Albanian language as well as the Heads of the Transitory Government and the Transitory State; removed altogether the Albanians from the population and simply deleted the entire explaination on the controversy.
Do you see what he has been doing? He first talks about Serbian propaganda, conducts Albanian propaganda, and now anti-Albanian propaganda. Well, pardon me french, but his Contributions seem like those of a... well... very undecided person. --
HolyRomanEmperor 14:21, 13 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Hehe I assume that was a mistake, or he was ironic. If not, I would also be surprised he added that. :)))))
I added a suggestion to proceed further in the Kosovo article, before it is late and this revert-war goes on forever, and people dont feel like stopping anymore. Hope you agree with it, as you are one of the most active there. The star I awarded him for being so persistent in trying to make his point and trying to explain with his limited language abilities. His efforts I awared, but ...hmm...after that last edit, not sure :))))
Ilir pz 22:33, 13 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I thought that we were going to discuss in here? But OK. Me being the most active on Kosovo? I'm sorry to disagree, but Kosovo has been (so far) the least of my contributions and as it looks like, Asterion, Bormalagurski, Litany, simple Administrators and others alike spend much more time with the article. Cheers. --
HolyRomanEmperor 15:00, 14 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Belgrade
Posto si ziveo jedno vreme u Beogradu, nadam se da ces
ovde glasati za Article Improvement Drive, pa da Beograd bude izabrani clanak. I would appreciate your vote. --
serbiana-talk 03:32, 14 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Never lived in Belgrade. Sorry, cant help there.
Ilir pz 19:52, 15 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Tung
Ma mirë me shkru të thyme. Qysh po doket asgjë nuk po shijhet që ky ashtë hipi e zhdripi. haha. Po tasht qysh tasht duhet me dite qe kta e marin edhe ne gjuht tjera. Nuk asht ne pytje vetem anglisht po ele ne tjerat.--
Hipi Zhdripi 18:19, 14 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Hipi po donë mu bo Zhdripi po une në anglish nuk di me shkru Zhdripi. Po jam i sigur se ti munesh shum ma mirë se une. Për qita ish kon mirë me u lajmëru te guri i muhalles--
Hipi Zhdripi 03:51, 15 April 2006 (UTC)reply
In your last edits, you have marked the changes as a minor edit. This is not right. A minor edit generally implies trivial changes only, such as typo corrections, formatting and presentational changes and rearranging of text without changing any content. Therefore, any change that affects the meaning of an article is not minor, even if it involves one word. The distinction between major and minor edits is significant because you may decide to ignore minor edits when viewing
recent changes; logged-in users can even set their preferences to not display them. No one wants to be fooled into ignoring a significant change to an article simply because it was marked "minor." So remember to consider the opinions of other editors when choosing this option.
Asterion 22:32, 15 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I'd like to remind you to be
civil and to not form personal attacks or edit wars through your or others' comments; doing so will only cause tension and annoyance.
No comments for you,the tension maker!!
Ilir pz 10:13, 16 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Litany
You said "Ilir pz, you are confusing me. You are also avoiding my questions and advices. Of course the split of Yugoslavia whould have been like the one between Sweden and Norway. I can tell you that Wikipedia is NOT for PERSONAL OPINIONS. Therfor I will not answear your question whenever I want to see a Independant Repubulic of Kosova, or if Kosovo and Methoija should stay within the Union of SCG. It woulden't change my opinions on anything if they whould be independant or if they would stay. The most important is the best for the people and to keep the culture heritage of all peoples. If you want to know a very good reason why the question about Kosovos independance should be on the hold? More areas like, western Macedonia, Sandzak and Republika Srpska could strive for independance and this whould only be more unstable for the whole region and maybe in the worst case produce more wars. My opinion is baised that education, democracy and finacial investments are the only way for Kosovo and the rest of Balkan to be a peaceful part of Europe. From now on I will answear on your talk page, since we are commited to two discussions with the same topics. Best regards Litany"
First please insert the date in your signatures. It helps.
I wished Wikipedia was not for personal opinions, but for those which reflect the reality. Many people here seem to be fueled by their extreme wing (SPS) parties, be that financially or just ideologically, and come and vandalize the sites here. I do not approve of that. I am wondering why aren't you willing to answer my question then? Since you clearly keep oposing any of my changes in Kosovo wiki, you should have an opinion. Not that it would change anything in the path of Kosova to independence, I am just curious how a Scandinavian (with some inflence by Serbs) judges this issue. Western Macedonia is satisfied with the Oher Accord, and are prospering enough. Macedonia got an invitation by EU for accession, and its road is clear. Sandzak shows no indications in that direction: no peaceful movement for its independence, or autonomy, or ANYTHING. As far as RS is concerned, I have no opinion there, as I don't know about the implications that would caus.
Of course I fully agree with you that education, democracy, and financial investments are THE way to peace. There can be no democracy, no financial investments, no prosperity, if Kosova's status is put on hold. How are we to benefit from the WMF, WB,EU funds? How? Through Serbia? don't tell me that, as it would be ridiculous to say. "Benefiting" through Serbia's funds Kosova became the poorest region in all ex-yug. Not sure we ever had any benefit at all from Serbia. Ever. All Contact Group countries, and the rest (except Serbia of course, even Montenegro officials thinks so) agreed that putting Kosova's status on hold is the worst that could happen.
Ilir pz 10:42, 16 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I state again, Wikipedia is NOT for personal opinions. Please try to respect that. I say like I said before on your talk page "I understand your tiredness, but that must not (and never) be reflected on your wikipedia work". In the beginning you were very negletic and reverted everything, even without reading it. I think you have proved some changes (by not reverting proven facts) to the better but I still not "trust" you. You don't trust me, but hey, who trust anyone on internet?
I was not born yesterday. I've been around just as long to know how Albanian and Serbian POV is working. The problem is obvious all over Balkan.
You think I'm influenced by Serbs? Do you know them? But with all respect who are you influenced by?
The Bosniak population of
Sandzak would dream of independance, but do you think it's the right time? Belgrade is not happy about Kosovo. I'm not that sure that the Albanian population in
Macedonia will be stisfyed forever. If Kosovo gets independance, why should not
Republika Srpska get it? What will happend if Kosovo gets their independance? What happends if they dont? The whole area is to unstabil right now and will be for a long time. Please understand this about what you said earlier about the break up of Yugoslavia. Slovenes, Croats, Bosnians, Makedonians didnt have their own country, but Albania was independant. I'm not justifying anything bad that happend to the Albanian population in Kosovo by saying that.
Nobody should revert your work, but that cursed infobox will still be disputed. I back you up on several occasions but still we have our disputed subjects. :) Yours sincerely
Litany
Several thingies, Ilir
First, I would like to warn you to try to work out with Asterion. I know that you two are a little on edge, but please try to find a common language. The Greeks are of high respect on wiki, and francly, as much as I am ashamed to admit, if any third party arrives, they will most likely choose a Greek over an Albanian (or Macedonian, or Bulgarian, Turk or alike). --
HolyRomanEmperor 11:38, 16 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Second of all, when the governments of the Republics of Montenegro and Serbia met, deciding the future status of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, Serbia's Premier had argued that he will accept all terms that Montenegro's government desires, except for renaming the country; while on the other hand, Montenegro's President argued that that in fact is the only things that bugs him. He suggested "State Union of Serbia and Montenegro". This worried Koshtunica and the others, so they invited several UN officials as mediators. The UN (lesser, though) official was surprised that they even though that and considered that the Yugoslav governments was trying to openly spit on the Albanian politicians of Kosovo. He asked the government How long will you think that Albanian politicians are stupid? Ofcourse the renaming will not affect the 1244 resolution!"
And then you appear claiming that. You must realize why I interpreted it like this. All the best from
Europe, --
HolyRomanEmperor 11:45, 16 April 2006 (UTC)reply
You might also view this BBC report (regarding the Church matters):
Morto i Serbi She wrote that exactly on the ruins of that age-old Church. And she's a young girl.What do you think the other wil...? --
HolyRomanEmperor 11:47, 16 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Thanks for the remark, HRE. Why should the origin matter here, not sure I understand your point. Who cares if he is a Greek? I have nothing against Greeks here. I have nothing against any person based on their nationality. I am defending the truth about my country. And don't care who I have to explain that to, Greek, Serb, Brasilian, anyone. No need to send me warnings. I cannot find a common language with someone who keeps attacking and reverting whatever I edit. I instead ignore them.
Again, I repeat myself, the march 2004 riots are to be ashamed of , by those who took part in it. I don't feel collective responsibility for them, as I did not take part in such. I think whatever Kostunica and Montengrian officials agree has nothing to do with Kosova. If Montenegro is to be independent, that will be another plus for Kosovo's de jure recognition of independence. It will mean that even the closest nation to Serbs, besides Croatians, Macedonians, Slovenians, Bosnians, cannot coexist in that state with them. Why should Albanians then? take care,
Ilir pz 11:53, 16 April 2006 (UTC)reply
HRE you are getting in Asterion's way of reverting the data in Kosovo wiki. Slowly and in a stylish manner. First reverting "Albanian/Serbian" order of names to "Serbian/Albanian". And then without agreeing on the "transitional" part, you change them in the infobox, altogether with the map. Not good, and I was thinking I can find a common language with you at least! I will get back as soon as I find time. Regards.
Ilir pz 12:07, 16 April 2006 (UTC)reply
No more blanking
Please do not replace Wikipedia pages or sections with blank content. It is considered
vandalism. Please use
the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the
welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Thanks. --
Asterion 11:48, 16 April 2006 (UTC)reply
pure harrassment, to make me give up from editing Albanian related pages. I ignore the comment fully.
Ilir pz 11:59, 16 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Suffice to say; when a British sees five Balkan men: a Serb, a Croat, a Greek, an Albanian and a Bulgarian. And all five give different versions. What I meant to say is that they will automaticly discard the non-Greeks and vouch the Greek version as the real one. That's what I mean. I was warning you that the Greek wikipedians are of high respect on wiki, and they are the only ones who are in the European Union and the NATO, as well as they didn't fight any wars. You would be wondered what I hear on Chat: dirty and stupid Serbs; they're both entirely fault for screwing up the Balkans and similiar, sorry for the usage of obscure language, but I was trully quoting...
You mentioned Bosnians. Didn't you mean Bosniaks? And not Kostunica and the Montenegrin government, but the FRJ and the UN. The man that was saying that was a UN official and the UN is, as I believe, the governing body of the Kosovo Province.
I explained the Serbian/Albanian. First one order at the beginning of the article and then the other at the other place to satisfy all sides. I apologized to you for the revert, but please see my facts on
Talk:Kosovo. All the best (trully, I mean this; no matter how much we disagree, you can always count on me to back you up, my friend :). --
HolyRomanEmperor 18:08, 16 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Sorry I dont have time to reply in detail. I am pretty busy these days. I see that it is becoming messy in Kosovo wiki :)))) Well, none wanted to listen to my suggestions. Now bear up with people who are less willing to compromise. That is how it worked, the way I predicted. I understood your point about the nationality in Wiki. Still I stand behind my words, I think ALL should have EQUAL rights anywhere, and especially in Wiki. Equality is the main principle democracy is built on. What chat rooms say, is not an indication about how to proceed in democracy. Chat rooms often gather irresponsible people. I am not sure what the right way of saying "citizens of Bosnia" whether it is Bosnians, or Bosniaks...checking fast here
[5] seems that I am right. But nevertheless. Not sure I see where you explained the "Albaian/serbian" thing. What was that about first of all? Too much to do, and really this is not my priority these days. Working on my thesis, instead! Not sure I can count on you backing me up, we seem to have quite opposite views on the most sensitive issue. How can you back me up? Talk soon,
Ilir pz 14:51, 18 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Montenegrins
This situation with the Montenegrin people is really complicated. Historically, Montenegrins were ethnic Serbs, and currently, most view themselves as Serbs in the cultural-linguistic-religious manor (Serbian Orthodox Church, Serbian language, Serbian Culture and Tradition). With regards, Serbia purged itself from Criminals of the old 1990s by the end of 2000. However, the currect Montenegro's President is the same man that stood outside the siege of
Dubrovnik, that followed Arkan to Prizren; that dispatched war parties to
Vukovar and
Sarajevo. So is the Montenegrin Premier. Additionally, they were Miloshevich's greatest buddies. The only reason for Montenegro's independence is to save the government from prison (Italy is prosecuting Milo Djukanovic for a long time for smuggling cigarettes and weaponry) and to create Montenegro into a Criminal Haven. The problem is that the Goverment is incredibly wealthy, as they are War Profiteers from the
Yugoslav Wars, and they never answered for their deeds. Practicly, not even 20% of Montenegro's citizens are ethnic Montenegrins in the real sence of the word, while over 70% are Serbs, either by nationality or other. The current government of Montenegro is in the likehood of Milosevic's regime and is practicly occupied the state and the people. That's why, the referendum is destined to fail. Polls say that there's a 70% chance that M will stay in the union and not even 40% of the population have voted for independence on the test-voting. --
HolyRomanEmperor 18:24, 16 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Serbia
Shiko të lutem mos po na vandalizojin Serbin e po e shkatrrojin artikullin, po menoj harten e Serbis dhe Malit të Zi në atë artikull. Dhe artikulli Prizren Party duhet zgjeruar dhe duhet shkuar se ai është bërë tradicional dhe festohet nga qytetarët e Prizrenit së bashku me ushtarët e KFORIT. Duhet me përkthye edhe tekstin e ftesës në anglish unë nuk po di.
Teksti i fotografisë gjendet i shënuar kur të shikon redaktimin:
Backing you up by encouraging you not to give up whatever you plan on doing and spreading good words to other wikipedians, naturally. I think that User:Hipi Zhdripi has really gone too far. Look what he wrote at
User_talk:PANONIAN or User_talk:The_Minister_of_War]]. Then take a look at the history of my User Page. He's really going to far, I think that a full-scale block from wikipedia might be the only solution.
But why did you mean Citizen of Bosnia? The Serbs (largest nation of BiH) wanted to live with Serbia; Bosniaks (most numerious group) wanted independence and Croats wanted to live with Croatia. That's why the war interrupted in the first place, so I assumped that you could only mean Bosniaks.
What do you think about the Montenegrins issue (my comments)? --
HolyRomanEmperor 19:29, 18 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Hehe I found time to reply, because some idiot woke me up too early with his loud music. I hope you can back me up with what you promise to do. Yeah, Hipi is a bit hyper. I tried to warn him, too. Not sure what the solution would be. I feel that all should be given a say, even if their language abilities are not superb. But personal attacks like his, or harrasment that I went through is not tolerable. Something should be done.
Not sure about this sensitive issue, whether they should be called Bosnians or Bosniaks. I thought Bosnians are the citizens of Bosnia, and the ethnic groups are called differently, like Croats, Serbs, and Muslims. As it says in
Bosnia"A citizen of Bosnia and Herzegovina, regardless of ethnicity, is usually identified in English as a Bosnian." and that is how I found in the dictionary I provided for you. Am I still answering your question? Not sure what the best solution for Bosnia would have been, really.
I don't have much information about the current Montenegrian leaders. I only know that they treated the Albanian minority much better than the Serbs elsewhere did. As a former ex-Yug republic they also have the right to have a referendum, and if its people support, they should be independent. As of whether they are different from Serbs, I can tell you that I never saw any difference. Actually Montenegro is the example of how Albanians were considered second hand people. Montenegrians with a population of Prishtina, and not compact one, were given a republic within ex-Yug, and Albanians with a compact population of almost 10 times more than Montenegro were left in an artificial quasi-province. No, my friend, I don't see any difference between Montengrians and Serbs, besides the way of doing politics.
Ilir pz 06:54, 19 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Well, yeah, Bosnian is an inhabitant of Bosnia and Herzegovina, while Bosniak is one of the three ethnic groups of BiH; so that's why you used it improperly in that sentence.
Ahh, the Republics issue. You see, Montenegro was not to exist. It was supposed to be a part of (coastal) Socialist/People's Republic of Montenegro. So, despite the number of Montenegrins, it was created for the purpose of decreasing the (possible) sizes of Serbia in the Federation, and to decrease the number of Serbs (Tito used little oppression in 1948 to make over 90% of the population to declare themselves as Montenegrins), so you see; there's nothing in numerality, but politics there. And as I hate to admit, one of the issues is simply because Albanians were/are not Yugoslavs: Serbs, Muslims, Montenegrins, Macedonians, Croats and Slovenes all are.
A pre-refferendum (poll) was already conducted. Although, not sure what you meant by As a former ex-Yug republic. All Yugoslav states sceded unconstitutionally except Montenegro. The Law said that a Republic is legitimate to declare independence if all the other constituent Republics agree. It was only Slovenia-Croatia/Croatia-Slovenia, yet they became independent (not peacefully, though).
Oh, I forgot a thingy: on
Talk:Kosovo you said: That would help me know as well. That is all. 165 seems to me to be a biased number. There aren't that many churches in total, including the Roman Catholic ones I think.
Well, the problem is that those 165 were only a fragment of the Orthodox Serb Churches and Monasteries on Kosovo. Too bad that those 165 included those 8 centuries old. Just before the arrival of the Ottoman Turks, there were around 1,300 on Kosovo alone. Islam and most-recent Albanian military movements (you must admit) have teared down that number, you must admit. For if not, today Kosovo would be the largest concentration of Orthodox Christianity on Earth (like it was). I think that if we count all the ruins of Churches and Monasteries since then, we would have at least by a half more than 1,300. Sincerely yours. --
HolyRomanEmperor 09:33, 19 April 2006 (UTC)reply
wowowow I don't like speculating with numbers taken from a history written by a bunch of nationalistic and illiterate people of the past. Why do you insist that I admit stuff I cannot verify? Why should I answer for whatever Ottoman empire has done? There are many Albanian churches that the Ottomans have ruined. Furthermore (if I use history like you do) there are allegations that before Slavs arrived in the Balkans there were many Albanian (Roman Catholic) churches that were later converted to Serbian Churches. These data are strongly supported by the Albanian Catholic Church of Kosova. As I mentioned many times before, I don't like messing with the history. That is a waste of time in some numbers that cannot be verified. Let us talk present. Such a nice name: Present, accept it like a present :))))
Ilir pz 19:36, 20 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Në lidhje me artikullin "Kosovo"
Unë kohëve të fundit po jom shumë i nxonun me obligime jashtë-kompjuterike, kështu që s'po muj me kontribu shumë. Por, duhesh gjithsesi mi kontaktu
rrjetën. Kta jon profesionista edhe kishin mujt me na ndihmu teper. Informacionet tjera i gjen atje...
Aeternus 16:05, 19 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Answer
sure we can talk here not in HRE's talk page. You said:
"Good if I provide you with it. ;) And yes I have. Maybe you only see what you wanna see? I've re-written alot of edits from people with only IP numbers, claiming that the country is called Kosovo i Methoija, etc. BTW why not answearing what I wrote to you on your talk page? Litany"
hehehe yes, you made my day, thanks a lot. check what you reverted "the country is called Kosovo i Methoija" hehehehehehe. I really thank you. Have a nice day!
Ilir pz 16:50, 20 April 2006 (UTC)reply
You are very welcomed. :) I think we have shared each other great joys of laughter during theese months. :) A big thanks to you too. :)
Hahaha an old mistake. You can kill me! ;) So I wait for your answear on my other edit on your talk page.
Have a nice day, and a nice friday and weekend if we will not be in touch.
Litany
Joys of laughter, indeed. Can you refresh the question, not sure which one you are asking. Thanks,
Ilir pz 19:30, 20 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Strange as it may seem
I think that Asterion's being a little rough on you. But then again, I can understand his attitude, and I believe that so can you. Did you notice how I keep staying cool and sweattalk to you? That's because you didn't say Somebody ban HRE vandal!!! for a few hundred times like you did in Asterion's case. Although, you have changed and I wish that Asterion could see that too. I'll note it on his talk page. I only wish that you try to be nice to him that you can work it out together.
P. S.
You stopped talking at the talk page. --
HolyRomanEmperor 19:36, 20 April 2006 (UTC)reply
who is being rough on me? I am not sure who you are talking about. I don't feel any pressure, thanks for caring. I like your attitude. That is the attitude I respect, and find time (in my busy life) to respond to. That is why I stopped calling you (much less than 100 times :)))) a vandal, that back then you seemed like, as you were conducting the same reverts as some who can still be called vandals.
p.s. In which talk page did I stop talking? Sorry, but I've been busy these days. I have a life:))
Actually, you never called me a vandal. And I revert your edits for 3 times, for the reasons mentioned above in a large span of time between them. :) You stopped talking on this talk page.
Brothers: Well, I've automatized my Wiki Account, so anyone that gets a load on my computer and goes to Wikipedia through the Internet uses the same Account (my brother and my aunt's son); it's really hard to stop them all the time... Anyway, only one of them is active recently, and I keep him from editing effectivly (don't wanna repeat that mistake again :))) --
HolyRomanEmperor 16:30, 21 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Good brother :)) Well take care of that account. Could cause you problems if misused.
Ilir pz 15:54, 24 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Kosovo-geo-stub
Hello Ilir - you wrote: Hello Mr. Dignan. I recently noticed your contributions to the stub issues related to all cities and locations of Kosovo. I am not sure your contributions would calm down the tension that already exists between the parties involved in the dispute. As much as I respect your professionalism, and your determination to comply to the Wiki rules, I would encourage you to think of compromising solutions when dealing with sensitive topics. As far as stub issue is concerned, for the topic I am addressing, I would suggest you initiate a "stub" modification for disputed territories, and not instead fuel up the tensions by following some rules, which are temporary always.
First, thank you for the compliments. Second, an explanation for the edits I made. Kosovo-geo-stub was deleted in December after discussions at
Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion and further discussions at
Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals. The reasons for the deletion were two-fold: firstly, in order to maintain as neutral a point of view as possible, we try to avoid having stub types for territories and regions with an uncertain political status or which are not recognised internationally. Secondly, it was feared that this particular stub type might generate edit-warring on the template itself and also on any articles which used the template (and indeed there was some edit-warring on several of the articles which had Kosovo-geo-stub). We thought long and hard about the "compromise solutions" that you mention, and arrived at one which we hoped would suit everyone. As you yourself must be aware, the one letter difference between Kosovo and Kosova is enough in itself to cause arguments. Unfortunately, it is very hard to please everyone, but it was the best we could do. It was felt that the stubs relating to places in Kosovo should be kept together and in some way separate from those of Serbia and Montenegro, in the hope that some decision relating to the region might soon eventuate. The way we have been doing that is this: as things stand, Kosovo is regarded as part of Serbia and Montenegro, but to say that it was Serbian might cause anger. therefore, Stubs relating to Serbia (excluding Kosovo) are given Serbia-geo-stub and those relating to Montenegro are given Montenegro-geo-stub (both these areas have well-defined and recognised borders, so there was no fear of edit-warring on articles using these stubs). Articles relating to places in Kosovo, however, were given an overall SerbiaMontenegro-geo-stub. In this way, they are listed together in one category but separate from those of the two federal regions of Serbia and Montenegro which are in subcategories. I realise this doesn't suit everyone, but as I said, it's the best solution we could come up with, and it's reduced the edit-wars on the articles. I hope that expalins why I did what I did, and I'm sorry if it's not a perfect solution (when dealing with matters to do with the Balkans, few things ever are!)
Grutness...wha? 15:24, 21 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Thanks Hipi but I am not interested in that topic.
Ilir pz 22:37, 21 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Nomination
Too bad that you voted neutral, I thought that you object nothin'... Could you presicely say why you objected?
Also, you "violated" a Wikipedia rule. I hadn't accepted my nomination yet. :)
Well, I'm keeping matters strictly proffessional. There is a 60% chance that they are the same user, and 40% chance that they're not, which makes me right in both cases :))) --
HolyRomanEmperor 11:39, 22 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Shortly: sorry about that "violation", I did not see any remark on that, this was the first time I voted in Wikipedia. I like to be neutral before I make up my mind about something. Sorry I did not have time to follow that process, seems like it did not end the way you wanted. About the percentages you use, I would encourage you to think of a 50% - 50% instead. As it is impossible to verify, I don't believe you are different from Asterion or Litany. In thoughts people can be similar, that doesn't justify rising suspicions. Keep improving your professionalism
Ilir pz 15:52, 24 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Actually, it can be checked: through the famous "CheckUser". --
HolyRomanEmperor 16:18, 26 April 2006 (UTC)reply
RRjeta
Ilir, lirisht kërkoju ndihmë atyre, sepse nëse ata vet nuk e bëjnë, i thonë dikujt tjetër që ta bën. --
Aeternus 14:40, 22 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Flm Petrit. Do te shoh nese nuk harroj, se kemi nevoje per perkrahje pak
Ilir pz 15:53, 24 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Make the projekt for Kosovo with PANONIA
Ilir provoje ta kriosh një projekt së bashku me PANONIN ashtu që të gjeni një zgjidhje për gjitha artikujt.
(transletit, is not correct but it mean the same)
Pleace trai to make a project with PANONIA to presant the both sei of Kosovo. I m going to trai to be neutral and support you two. Hipi
Cities
I changed templates on the Kosovo cities articles: removed reference to car plates since you said that all have the same, and changed "coat of arms" with "flag". Ok now?
PANONIAN(talk) 19:49, 24 April 2006 (UTC)reply
kosovo city maps
I have upload it at wiki commons. You can see there are 29 maps. the mape of Malisheva is not there beacose the order of this komun are not difenedet. In fackt this is in the Law. There are many new under (subdivisions) livel of this komuns but they must be pasentit as part of this komuns wich are in this time present. Dragash is now in two divesions (Dragashi and Opoja ? ) but in the livel of Kosovo they are one komune. Tung from vandal rebel Hipi.
Ups!!! The names in albanian L. are officel (atention! the extremes kosovars wont to use the new name). If you two needs somthing abou the images call me
[6].
Just letting you know that you voted twice at this RFA. I have striked you're original vote and kept the second vote and your decision.
Moeε 00:33, 26 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Re:Kosovo
Hi. I have not forgotten about the article :). I was just giving it time so that other users would get a chance to express their view on my proposal, since I'd prefer to act with consensus. However, if no one posts there within the next few hours, I will go ahead with the unprotection. It will happen today. Thanks for the reminder, though.
Redux 16:19, 26 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Template: Kosovo
Hi Ilir,
Why do you object so much to having Kosovo listed as what it is, a province of Serbia under UN administration? I have given you the facts and the sources and you have still been unable to provide a single one. I already explained you that an encyclopaedia is not a matter of personal preferences. As far as everyone is concerned, Kosovo is still part of Serbia and we need to show this as it is. Whatever happens next, wikipedia will reflect the changes, but at this point, you cannot simply call it a "territory" as this factually incorrect. Quoting from the
UN website: "...Within Serbia there are two semi-autonomous provinces, Vojvodina (21,506 km2) in the north and Kosovo and Metohija (10,887 km2) in the south.". I could go on but you already know all this anyway. --
Asteriontalk to me 20:58, 26 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Yo, you still refuse to read what sources I provide. I just want to be consistent with whatever laws are approved in Kosova.And constitutional framework is the main one. Should you not want to accept that, it is your problem. I have a fact, it is clearer than any source can be here. No time to waste with your nationalistic pushy revert war. bye
Ilir pz 21:02, 26 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Reminder
I have transferred discusion about Kosovo page from my personal to Kosovo talk page.
Discussion is not personal, so it belongs there.
If you have something personaly to say to me, please feell invited on my talk page.
--
Manojlo 16:42, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Discussion was partly personal, as YOU removed and added content according to your wishes. Well, keep removing them from your talk page, show your manners. 16:43, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
Thank you for protecting it from Manojlo! (the Kosovo article) --
HolyRomanEmperor 16:56, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
You are most welcome (if you are not ironic :))
Ilir pz 16:58, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Ironic? Well, now you've insulted me. :( --
HolyRomanEmperor 20:32, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Also, I added the "Metohijas" to resemble the Communist Yugoslavia period. The official name was (short) SAP KOSMET; and the shorter version was Социјалистичка Аутономна Покрајина Косово и Метохија. Why not call it by the then-offical name? --
HolyRomanEmperor 17:28, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I think Metohija part was removed from the name after world war 2. Correct me if I am wrong. And don't give me Serbian sources, again. Sorry if it was insulting to you what I said earlier.
Ilir pz 18:11, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
You removed Metohija from both before and after World War II. So, could you clarify? --
HolyRomanEmperor 20:32, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I noticed you reverted one part which I reformulated, based on the source
[7] that Slavs did not invade Kosovo until Byzantium Emperor died, that is year 1014. Indeed, the source says, they populated the surrounding areas, and their homeland was then considered
Rasca. Let me know what you think about it. Let us discuss more before just reverting. Manojlo seems quite prone to that.
Ilir pz 18:22, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Correction, that refers to the Serbs in presice. The Slavs (overall) have invaded Kosovo since the 500s, and since the 6th century they swarmed nearly every city (whole of Albania) un to the Peloponnesian peninsular. This is actually very interesting, because it presents that Albanians have really a lot of Slavic blood. To my personal opinion, if the Ottomans never conquered these areas, Albanians would be something like Bulgarians (non-Slavic origin Slavs). What do you think, my friend?
Where do you get the source for the "invasion since the 500s" ? Isn't the article
[8] saying something completely different? About the amount of Serbian blood in Albanians I cannot really help you, not sure I can quantify it. Mixed marriages have always existed, exist (a cousin of mine is married to one Serbian woman, and still live both happily in Kosova), and will exist in the future. What I can tell you is that these cases have been very rare, as it was always a tendency of Albanians to marry Albanians. I respect your opinion. My opinion is that if Ottomans never occupied the Balkans, Albanians would still be Albanians, but would have one label less "muslims".
Ilir pz 20:39, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Uhh, you again misinterpreted. Not "Serbian" - "Slavic". This is the second time that you read my "Slavic" as "Serbian". Stop it! ;) --
HolyRomanEmperor 20:51, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
;) I am sorry.
Ilir pz 20:59, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I will be obliged to report your reverting. I supplied more than enough relevant evidences for claiming that KLA is named terror organization. See discussion page of Kosovo ariticle.
Please, do stop. It leads nowhere. --
Manojlo 18:59, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
You supplied sources which say that ONE man once said that KLA was suspected to be terrorist. You did NOT provide ANY source claiming that NOW KLA is in any list of terrorist organizations. I did report you. Your reverts are leading nowhere. You damaged the consensus we had achieved in Kosovo wiki for a long time now. Thanks a lot, and hope you taste being blocked for some time.
Ilir pz 19:03, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Excuse the uninvited response, KLA was listed as a terrorist organisation up to 1998 by the US Department of State. However, as this is a general article about Kosovo, I think that should be reflected only in the
KLA article instead. We reached an agreement on this over a month ago. Regards, --
Asteriontalk to me 01:22, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Then I remove it from the main article, and add a (sourced from US State Dept) citation in KLA article.
Ilir pz 09:47, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
And don't give me Serbian sources, again. Uhh, I'm afraid I've got no idea what you're talking about. --
HolyRomanEmperor 20:30, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I just encouraged you to give me more neutral sources. Those historic dates about Serbian Empire glories have been written by biased Serbian historians, who were instructed to construct their data that way. 20:39, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
Aha! But what percise data about the Serbian Empire glory do you think is biased? I would gladly solve it.
Checking all those parts is a 24/7 job. All Serbian History part is full of details, yet no citations. I have no idea how all those stories were written in Kosovo article. I will have to do some school work, as well. But I will gladly point them to you in the near future.
Ilir pz 20:59, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
If you think it's bad, revert it. But I don't see anything bad - Kosovo was controlled by Serbia and Metohija by Montenegro...
I think it is more correct to say "Kosovo part captured by Serbs was unified with Metohija(Rrafshi i Dukagjinit in Albanian) previously captured by Montenegrins". I am all against putting labels over people, over lands. They are not watches to say Swiss watch. If you say Serbian Kosovo, where is Albanian Kosovo left there? You get my point? Formulation matters a lot.
Ilir pz 20:56, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
"Serbian" means "Serbia's" and not "Serbs'". I think you misinterpreted it wrong. For instance, I used "Montenegrin", even though if I meant by people I could say "Serb", so I thought that it was obvious. However, I do not agree with that you just proposed, since it repeats that Kosovo was conquered by Serbia and Metohija by Montenegro (a thing mentioned already before). --
HolyRomanEmperor 21:00, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
What's the difference? With my limited knowledge of English, I think that saying "Serbian Kosovo" does not mean "Kosovo part conquered by Serbia" but means "area belonging to Serbs/Serbia" and even if it doesn't seem to you, it is inflammatory as it gets. I have nothing against you mentioning that fact (providing source after it) and clarifying this fact. My clarification above was clear enough. What is wrong with that? If it is repeated before, why do you need to repeat it below then? remove it altogether, without putting labels that would change the meaning completely. 21:10, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
My page
Thanks. That's exactly the kind of frustration I'm trying to put into words! :)) Fuck Visas too! -
FrancisTyers 19:59, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
You're most welcome. I back you up in that initiative.
Ilir pz 20:00, 27 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Answer
"Could you help me incorporate a field in the infobox of Prizren?"
You cannot incorporate any field into these tables if you do not incorporate that field into "Kosovo cities" template:
You should first incorporate new fields there and then into city tables which are in the articles.
PANONIAN(talk) 01:14, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Thanks Panonian.
Ilir pz 09:45, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Serbian Kosovo and Monentenegrin Metohija
The purpose of the sentence was to show that Metohija and Kosovo were reunited as Montenegro joined the Kingdom of Serbia. I'm sorry if I sound stupid, but I really didn't get what you said.
I mean, why do you think that there we say "Serbian Sanjak" and "Montenegrin Sanjak" - to differ them since it is split. I really don't know why you repeat something like that. Could you please clarify me some more? --
HolyRomanEmperor 16:08, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Read this drama: [
[9]] - note especially the parts connected to the Albanians. :) --
HolyRomanEmperor 17:40, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
:) Yeah, the attempt to make Albanians from Kosovo seem different from the ones in Albania was always the attempt by the Serbian nationalists. We actually have lived in different countries, have the same language, blood, history, customs, traditions. It is funny when some try to entertain themselves with the thought we are Skipetars, and they in Albania are Albanians :)))). As far as the point raised above, I think you should understand that with the explanations I gave. I understood what your aim was, to connect that part with the next sentence. But the label itself, is inappropriate. Just like it is used nowadays from those who are afraid of recognition of independence of Kosovo, and say "It will become Albanian Kosovo". You see my point?
Ilir pz 19:09, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Ahh, you didn't read the exact part I wanted you to read. Do not read those ignorent assistents of the Vladika, they're all just low-lives. Pay attention to what Rade himself says - "Arbanasi - to su raca stara" - you'll actually find that he connected the Albanians through the Serbian, Greek and Roman era - actually proving the domesticness of the Albanian people - you now, the "Illyrian" part. To my personal theory, that's just unrpoved romantic nationalist-driven theory - but that Albanians themselves are old as that, that I believe.
You don't need to thank me for the notice on Manojlo, it's my standard practise, that's what I do. That's what I did to you. :) --
HolyRomanEmperor 19:38, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Humble. I noted that part you said now. I am a history-pessimist, as I mentioned couple of times. I don't like it because it is misused often. It is something that fuels up nationalism in Balkans, unfortunately. That is why I dislike it. Apart from that, it is interesting, I like stories from the past, and how things worked.
Ilir pz 19:48, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I'm asking you then to rephrase the sentence, because with the "conquered" and "annexed" it simply doesn't look properly written. --
HolyRomanEmperor 19:43, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Hola, HRE, I gave the explanation of both those words, and how they exactly fit the sentence. It is in Kosovo talk page if you can find it there.
Ilir pz 19:48, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
The current "Kosovo were" is grammatically incorrect. Additionally, search the article for "Ottman" - it should be "Ottoman". Regards.
hehe that anthem seems like it is all for Kosovo. :))))I will check the grammar part. Sorry.
Ilir pz 19:52, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
That's the Montenegrin national anthem... --
HolyRomanEmperor 20:05, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I hope they don't approve that being the future anthem of Montenegro, it would be ridiculous. I am sure Djukanovic is smarter than that.
Ilir pz 20:08, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
national and state anthem? hmm sorry but I don't understand. I know that Albanians have one. And usually there is one, or I am mistaken?!
Ilir pz 20:31, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Well, the national anthem is the anthem of the people of Montenegro - they sing it on concerts and when they're cheerleadig in matches etc. It represents the People. The state anthem represents the Goverment and is sang strictly on political scenes. It represents the State. --
HolyRomanEmperor 21:00, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Interesting, so they sing about my town, Prizren, each time they have concerts and soccer matches? I did not know my town is that popular :))
Ilir pz 21:03, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
It's because it was the Imperial Capital. --
HolyRomanEmperor 21:08, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
And they still sing about it? Oh well, when I think better there are Albanian songs about Ulcinj/Ulqin as well, as it once was a part of Albania, before it was given to Montenegro by Large Powers. But not our national anthem, it does not have any cities mentioned in it, that are now a part of any other country. Never mind...history again.
Ilir pz 21:20, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I'm generally against creating new states - I stated that Montenegro's independence should be restored. However, Kosovo was never independent, so I can't apply my logic there. --
HolyRomanEmperor 21:12, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
I guess your logic is against the creation of so many new countries in the world then, including USA, Canada, many Latin America countries, Austria, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Norway, etc. All these countries were not independent, and as such as they are now. Instead a rather more rational approach would be: recognize the facts that brought to the new reality, without prejudice if they ever were independent or not. Besides this logic of yours, what makes you oppose the independence of Kosovo? It has a defined map, a bloody recent past caused by the country that still has claims over it, has shown that it has the ability to self-govern (including 1974 province govts), more than 90% of its population have very different characteristics with Serbia, and so many other factors. So?
Ilir pz 21:20, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
No Problem
Hey no problem if you use the code. Only if it is not directly pro-Serb. Kosovo should be its own nation.
Kseferovic 21:32, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Thanks for everything.
Ilir pz 21:42, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
When did I say that I Oppose? I am generally against creating all states, since this is the age when states will be melted into larger and more powerful - like in Europe the European Union and the Russian Federation will probably do. I never said that I Oppose the independence... --
HolyRomanEmperor 21:31, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
You can still be independent state, and be a part of European Union, and have mutual benefits. That is the vision of all my compatriots. But from talking to Dutch, German and other friends I have in Europe, they still think some independence should be preserved in the country itself. Glad to hear you do not oppose the independence of Kosovo. Hope they don't call you a traitor, like they called Svilanovic former minister, and now member of
[10]Ilir pz 21:42, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Well, you can't expect them to change their national anthem just because it's historical; it would lose it's singing power ;) Also, I didn't know that Ulcinj was a part of Albania - when was it? --
HolyRomanEmperor 21:44, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Until by Berlin Treaty it was given to Montenegro.
Ilir pz 21:57, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
But you must understand me - I live for the day that there are no political boundries within Europe and that there is only one nationality in it - European and one currency -
Euro. --
HolyRomanEmperor 21:49, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Sure I understand you. I guess more Serbs should travel to get cured of "Kosovo myth". Not sure about the nationality European. That is still not very strong. Each nation identifies themselves as their origin, and are proud to say it loudly. In Kosovo we use Euro as well :))) I share your opinion as well. Tired of borders and visas, and all of that. But still, some identification should exist, so that locals solve their problems, and in a higher level they all meet in EU. That is my dream.
Ilir pz 21:57, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
...but Ulcinj wasn't a part of Albania before 1878, was it? --
HolyRomanEmperor 22:08, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Well, like all the rest, it was a part of the Ottoman empire, but Shkodra/Skadar villayet. 22:14, 28 April 2006 (UTC)~
sorry, but wasnt clear the thing above.
Ilir pz 22:45, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Thanks for taking the time to respond to my talk page. But still, I did not get a direct answer on the independence of Kosovo. Yes, no? "yes with a but", "no with because" etc. Read an interesting report. Quite neutral one indeed. If you wanna take a look at it
[11]Ilir pz 22:54, 28 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Priština article
The links self-evidently don't work when they are coloured red. See link
[12]. The "Battle of Kosova" is one of many examples. I agree with the changes
Int19h made and his explanied reason for doing so. Best wishes
phildav76 08:43, 29 April 2006 (UTC)reply
sorry, but wasnt clear the thing above.Ilir pz 22:45, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
? What was confusing? Сваки Округ је бирао по два капетана за Велику Народну Скупштину Српског Народа у Црној Гори 1918 године. Али, у ново-освојеним територијама, добијеним након Балканскога рата - области гдје су Албанци чинили већину - сваки Срез (јединица Округа) је бирао по три Капетана.
Clear now? Hope that you could read all that without problem. ;) --
HolyRomanEmperor 08:46, 29 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Clear.Thanks.
Ilir pz 09:16, 29 April 2006 (UTC)reply
No comment?
<not sure what to comment about that, and what the purpose might have been.
Ilir pz 09:26, 29 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Also, the same is with the flags. This is how the Montenegrin national flag looks like:
and this is the state flag:
... as you can see, it's divided just like the athem. --
HolyRomanEmperor 09:25, 29 April 2006 (UTC)reply
YEah, I know the flags. Don't Serbs also have a white Eagle in some flag of theirs? It seems quite similar, exclude the 4 C's
What excludes the four Betas? Sorry, I didn't catch what you meant... --
HolyRomanEmperor 10:25, 29 April 2006 (UTC)reply
not betas, I said "c" letters, "samo sloga ..."
Ilir pz 10:32, 29 April 2006 (UTC)reply
No, no, no. Don't here mere legends. The "Samo sloga Srbina spasava" is a newly and (poorly) invented motto that has nothing to do with the ancient insignia. Anyway, you still didn't tell me waht you meant? --
HolyRomanEmperor 11:05, 29 April 2006 (UTC)reply
The purpose was to show how they treated new citizens of their Kingdom - with special privilages. :) Until they get used to living there. --
HolyRomanEmperor 11:56, 29 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Not a single source is found in Serbian history textbooks - in fact, they don't even contain anything about Kosovo. What percisely do you no agree with?
P. S. Why didn't you answer me last questions? --
HolyRomanEmperor 16:05, 29 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Hi HRE, I was busy with school, could not answer earlier. Please be a bit patient :) as I don't stay in Wikipedia all the time. I answered to you in prizren talk page, on your question. Not sure if that was your last question. If you take a look at the citations in Demography of Kosovo you see these sources, among some:
^
ISBN86-80029-29-7: Mirčeta Vemić: Ethnic Map of a Part of Ancient Serbia: According to the travel-record of Miloš S. Milojević 1871-1877, Belgrade, 2005
^
ISBN86-17-09287-4: Kosta Nikolić, Nikola Žutić, Momčilo Pavlović, Zorica Špadijer: Историја за трећи разред гимназије природно-математичког смера и четврти разред гимназије општег и друштвено-језичког смера, Belgrade, 2002, pg. 63
^ a b c d Politika: Шта се догађало на Косову, Belgrade 1981, pg. 159
^ a b c
ISBN86-17-09287-4: Kosta Nikolić, Nikola Žutić, Momčilo Pavlović, Zorica Špadijer: Историја за трећи разред гимназије природно-математичког смера и четврти разред гимназије општег и друштвено-језичког смера, Belgrade, 2002, pg. 182
^ Coordination Centre of Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and Republic of Serbia for Kosovo and Metohija
Please, what sources can travel records of some Serbian guy be, or history of a high school in Serbian, Politika magazine (the most hard-core nationalistic magazine in Serbian), or Sandra's (dis)coordination centre?!?! Please....
Ilir pz 08:52, 30 April 2006 (UTC)reply
Answer
Regarding demographics of Kosovo, I do not know much about that. However, demographics is only information from the last 1991 census to the present day. Everything before that does not belong to "demographics", but to "history" or "demographic history" sections. I could help with that. Regarding the districts, I do not understand what you suggest here. I did wrote there that they existed from 1990 to 1999. That automatically also mean that they do not exist after 1999.
PANONIAN(talk) 14:45, 30 April 2006 (UTC)reply
ehh, no. My last question was regarding the four Betas you mentioned. However, I neither understood what you meant by those references. Anyway, I'm taking a little wikibreak and self-blocking my account, so would you be kind if we moved and discussed to my talk page? That would be very kind of you. Regards and let me hear from you! --
HolyRomanEmperor 15:02, 30 April 2006 (UTC)reply
tung
Hi Ilir. I see you have your hands-full. I answered to you in my talk page. My advice to you, try to ignore some comments, not worth fighting against. Might be better. don't you agree with what I say? spare yourself of trouble. try to explain to whomever understand, who doesn't just ignore. Would love to help, but having health problems.
Leshkuq 00:32, 1 May 2006 (UTC)reply
also could you help me with some designing my personal page? that would be great. Just show me a link or guide. bye
Leshkuq 00:34, 1 May 2006 (UTC)reply
Hi Leshkuq. Finally I heard from you. Hope you get better soon. Feel free to get any code from my page. I talk to you soon then.
Ilir pz 09:34, 1 May 2006 (UTC)reply
Tung 2
Let the Holy play his game Holy puting oil in fire. Watch out. PANONIA hase right the best solution is to do like with
Georgia See
User talk:Hipi Zhdripi#Kosovo stub. The only problem is that in that part of the earth they dont have UN. But we must finde the compromise to finde the solution for this argument too. Dont loste your time with Holy and Manjolo account, they are not interesting to work and present the articl how it must. Make with PANONIA in the discussion side a work place for each articel and after they are finisht you two are going to prezent at the articel side. If the holy and Manjolo mix they nois ther then you two must make a project
West Balkan and nobody can destroyed your work. Let Holy to be Manjolo and Manjolo to be Holy. Ignor they me too.
At first you two must re-construt the Kosovo-geo-stub. I dont know here in en:Wiki how and who is respocibel for this. Please finde out wher is and start to make the geo-stubs
After that we need a new templare abot the 30 komuna.
After that you two must corporet with the peopel wich are resposebel about the Categorys and select they.
The cultur articel wich belong to the serbians kosovars, please lete under the direct category of Serbia. That is Respect for the church, not for the nationalist. During this time Im going to make the multicipaty map from year 2006--
Zhdripi Hipi 03:27, 1 May 2006 (UTC)reply
Ilir pz 08:14, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
Ilir pz 09:24, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
Ilir pz 08:12, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
Serbiana
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Ilir pz 09:53, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
Ilir pz 10:05, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
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Serbiana
₪ 01:48, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
Ilir pz 09:29, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
Serbiana
₪ 03:38, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Ilir pz 22:52, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
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