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As early as 13 September, armed Pathans had drifted into Lahore and Rawalpindi, and some Swatis had crossed into the Vale. About a week later, according to a deputy commissioner of Dera Ismail Khan, a scheme was launched to send tribesmen from Malakand to Sialkot, in lorries provided by the Pakistan Government.[71: Stephens, Pakistan, 1967, p.200] The report also referred to preparations in early October by Swat, Dir, and Chitral to attack Kashmir from the north-west. The Wali of Swat, a developed state, was an ambitious man. He had sought the governorship of the NWFP. It was now believed that he had been promised Kashmir if he could seize it. Cunningham knew that he 'had put up a lot of money for expenses of the Kashmir campaign'.[72: Cunningham's Diary, 26 Oct. 1947] He noted, too, that the Pir of Wana had personally recruited thousands of Mahsuds.[73: Cunningham's Diary, 26 and 30 Oct. 1947] There is little doubt that at the time when the north-western offensive began, Pathans were active further south in raids all along the Punjab border, from the Indus to the Ravi. The Maharaja and his PM complained of raiding, looting, and burning from Kathua to Kotli.[74: Mahajan to Patel, 23 Oct. 1947, Das, i.64-6]. Beside the clashes between rebels and the State forces, and the incursions of the raiders, Punjabi refugees in Kashmir heightened the communal temperature. [1]
-- Kautilya3 ( talk) 23:44, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
The Theory 1 was that the Poonchis went to NWFP for arms, and the Pashtuns heard about the atrocities committed agains them and spontaneously decide to invade Kashmir (all on the same day of course). There have always been significant number of British commentators who supported this theory.
The Theory 2 that has been propagated by whisle-blowing Pakistanis is that the Prime Minister Liaquat Ali Khan ordered the invasion. A meeting on 12 September has been mentioned, where 3 plans were discussed, one to arm the Poonchis, one to organise Pashtun tribals, and the third to organise the former INA officers and other interested Pakistanis from Punjab.
The Theory 3 is that the Pakistani Army organised the invasion under a plan called Operation Gulmarg. It has been discussed in detail by Indian military authors: Bajwa, [2] Jasbir Singh, [3] and various others. It was also mentioned breifly by K. V. Krishna Rao [4] and Arjun Subrahmaniam, [5] But some of the details were vague or inconsistent. A couple of days ago, I decided to check Kalkat's book [6] and, after squeezing enough information from Google snippet view, the details are fairly clear.
Major O. S. Kalkat was serving in the
Bannu Brigade at
Bannu at the time of partition. He was scheduled to leave for India at the beginning of September. On 20 August, when he was deputising for his commanding officer Brig. C. P. Murry (probably "Murray") who was away, there arrived in the post a letter marked "Personal - Top Secret". In it was a letter from General
Frank Messervy attaching the plan for Operation Gulmarg. He was shocked, but quickly realized that the letter had to be personally acknowledged by his brigadier within 24 hours. So, he called him to return to base and gave him the letter. Probably the delay in the acknowledgement was enough for the higher officials to suspect foul play and he was put under house arrest. He escaped, reached Delhi on 18 October, and gave his information to a Gen. Kalwant Singh, Gen. Thapar and the defene minister Sardar Baldev Singh. None of them seems to have believed him. He was recalled on the 24th October after Nehru heard about it after the Operation Gulmarg started.
We don't have the official document that details what the the Army took down from him. Instead, we have the version published in Kalkat's book. I can't say whether this is exactly what he knew on 18th October or he modified it in the light of later events. The format of the version does look like the kind of thing he would have told the officials, point by point. If this is true, then the Theory 2 is entirely fictitious, a decoy meant for our consumption. Accordint to the Operation Gulmarg,
Now, notice the corroboration from RJ Moore. It is known that, by 13 September, the Pathans were on the move. Deputy Commissioner of Dera Ismail Khan was involved. Malakand Agency, Swat (princely state), Dir (princely state) and Chitral (princely state) were involved, which were all under the control of Political Agents. And, Pathans were being shipped to Sialkot.
The question now is, who ordered this operation? Obviously, General Messervy couldn't do it on his own. Neither did Liaquat Ali Khan have the power to order the General. Only Jinnah could have ordered it, and the British government had to be in on it. The implications are mind-boggling. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 16:05, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
After few months Professor Ishaq and Ch Hameed ullah met Quaid e Azam in Karachi where according to professor Qureshi Mr Jinnah asked them annoyingly that why we caused all the mess in Kashmir despite his advice not to indulge in violence? Professor Qureshi said we did not do this. It was your Prime Minister and other top officials who staged the invasion. Mr Qureshi told me that when I said this, Quaid e Azam who was sitting on sofa upwards and leaning towards front, almost fell back against the back of sofa, closed his eyes and did not speak a word for few minutes.This is also a part of decoying? Please remember, Theory 3 alone, is literally rewriting the history. — TylerDurden10 ( talk) 23:21, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
Disgusted with Liaquats conduct in Kashmir war Akbar later planned a coup against him in 1950.[8]
The Brigadier arrived at Bannu on 21st August; and soon I presented the vital document to him. He read it and stood aghast. For a long time he stared into the distance with astonishment. It seemed to have upset him a great deal; probably he did not expect that the newly split Indian and Pakistan armies, with the exigencies of the partition had torn apart, should come to such a pass to fight each other.The Mr. X must have been extremely powerful to pull this off. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 12:21, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
The major questions, when you have time:
— TylerDurden10 ( talk) 13:47, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
Sorry for demolishing your expectations. But that is how science progresses. New evidence leads to new theories. The new theory is not anything if not earth-shaking. The India-Pakistan conflict was created by the British. The plans were prepared by the British officers, well before independence. There were only six Pakistani officers at the rank of Colonel or above in 1947, most of them in non-combat roles. It was the British officers that were running the show. 20,000 Pashtun tribesmen were brought to six Brigade headquarters, many of them in which the Kashmir forces themselves fought togethter in the Second World War, in order to wage war on those very forces. Lockhart's testimony is mind-numbing for its callousness:
"The Prime Minister sent for me on the morning of 26th January. I walked over to his office and found him looking stern and somewhat agitated. Without any preliminaries, he asked me whether I had been given prior information about the massing of Pathan tribesmen near Attock just before the tribal invasion of Kashmir. I was quite taken aback, not so much at having to answer the question but because I realised that the only person who could have fed this information to the P.M. was Roy Bucher. A few days previously I had told him about the incident of General Sir Douglas Gracey's telephone conversation with me in late October – which I had subsequently forgotten about. I had mentioned the incident to no one else...." [15]
This is the Commander-in-Chief of Indian Army speaking: subsequently forgotten about. He was more concerned about the treachery of his own subordinate officer than with his own total disregard for his office. Do you know that the British burnt all their documents regarding princely states before they handed things over to the Indians? When the war started, India did not even have a map of Kashmir. The navy was intercepting Pakistan Army communications throughout October, but they didn't have any clue where this action was taking place. Where the hell was "Sensa"?
Indian incompetence in handling Kalkat's information is also mind-boggling. "Sardar" Baldev Singh imagined that a Sikh officer who risked his family to urgently reach Delhi to convey the information in time, was hallucinating! [16] Nehru got mad that Kalkat was ignored. But he didn't process the information either. Did it register with him that the orders were issued on 20th August, by the British C-in-C of Pakistan to British officers? That should have been enough for him to raise hell with Britain. Kalkat's information doesn't appear in the White Paper either. Nobody in India paid any attention to Kalkat's information except the Army people themselves, and that too after Kalkat published his memoirs. And, why is Arjun Subramaniam, the only one outside the Army circles that covered the information doing it so incompetently? Even if nobody else does, one would expect India's security establishment to process the information with the due care that it deserves.
So, there is plenty for you to do. Perhaps not on Wikipedia, but in real world where things should actually happen. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 08:36, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
I added a section in the Indo-Pakistani War of 1947 page. I have my doubts about the claimed leadership by Akbar Khan. For one, he was a Colonel at that time but Kalkat refers to him as "General". He also says that Akbar Khan was to be assisted by Brigadier Sher Khan, even though Sher Khan was senior to him. It is possible that Kalkat's description is the 1983 version, not what he saw in 1947. Somebody needs to find the record from 1947 for this to go anywhere. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 17:17, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
References
I am trying to see what was known about Kalkat before the publication of his book. Absolutely nothing. Here is a book [1] published in 1982, which has loads of analysis about the British. It even has a chapter called British complicity in invasion of Kashmir. But no mention of Kalkat. About Messervy, we learn:
Pakistan C-in-C, General Messervy returned to Pakistan from London via New Delhi where he had a meeting with Mountbatten,[22] perhaps to give him a fuller briefing on behalf of the British Cabinet or the Service Chiefs on the lines of action recommended by them. This supposiiton is based on the fact that from New Delhi, Messervy went to Rawalpindi and before settling down to his work went to Peshawar to talk to Cunningham. The instructions from London evidently had to be relayed on to all the Englishmen concerned. [2]
Cunningham records:
"Messervy came up from Pindi for a talk; just back from England. He was in Delhi two days ago and was surprised to find Mountbatten directing the military operations in Kashmir. M. B. is daily becoming more and more an anathema to our Muslims, and it certainly seems as if he could see nothing except through Hindu eyes." (November 7, 1947). [3]
If "we" can have "our Muslims", why not Mountbatten have "his Hindus"? Obviously not. Being British, he is not allowed to favour "Hindus". That is so very un-British.
While India’s intervention was militarily successful, it was also highly controversial. General Sir Frank Messervy, Commander-in-Chief of the Pakistan Army, alleged that India had planned to militarily intervene in the state several weeks before the event (Messervy 1949). [4]
Still think Nehru doesn't deserve those paperweights? -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 21:26, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
"Several weeeks before the event
". Perhaps Messery believed that information about his operation got leaked to India several weeks before the event? It would then make sense to assume that India was well-prepared? --
Kautilya3 (
talk)
11:15, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
References
Generall Muhammad Musa revealed in Dawn, 1 September 1970 that Mountbatten secretly flew to Lahore sometime between 22nd and 27th October. He was accompanied by senior British officers of the Indian Army. He gave no advance announcement and did not inform the Pakistan government, even after landing. [1]
One morning in October 1947 I was rung by the Pakistan Air Force Control room and was told that a few British General Officers had landed at the airport (Walton) and another aircraft was due in shortly from India, carrying VIPs... No one in our HQ had any previous warning of their visit. I went to the airport. The C-in-C of both the dominions [does this include Auchinleck?] and their senior officers were standing outside our improvised reception office. The Pakistan Chief of General Staff had told me that they had come for a meeting with their Indian counterparts regarding the developments in Kashmir and I was to make the necessary arrangement immediately. As far as I can recollect, Lord Mountbatten had also come. ... The meeting lasted till lunch time. No Pakistani officer attended it. I, therefore, could not ascertain the decisions arrived at between the representatives of two States despite my relentless efforts to ascertain the outcome of discussions.
From what we know, R. L. Batra had come to Delhi on 24th, and, that evening, Nehru took Mountbatten aside during a State dinner and told him about the invasion of Kashmir. It appears from several sources that Mountbatten already knew about it. On 25th morning, there was a Defence Committee meeting. On 26th morning, Mahajan came to meet Nehru at his house, after which there was another Defence Committee meeting.
So this visit could have happened only on the 23rd or 24th morning. I would guess 24th. Messervy was already in London. So they would have had to meet Gracey. We have to conclude that Gracey was in Lahore that day, and they called and found out where he was, before landing. Or, perhaps, the first flight brought Gracey from Rawalpindi and the second flight from Delhi brought Mountbatten and Indian officers.
Of course, Yusuf Saraf regards this as a yet another Mountbatten conspiracy, but we know better. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 13:15, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
The request of the Maharaja was considered by the Defence Committee of India, presided over by Lord Mountbatten, on 25 October [at 11:00am], at which General Lockhart, Commander-inchief of the Indian Army, read out a telegram from the Headquarters of the Pakistan Army (similarly manned by the Britishers) stating that some five thousand tribesmen had attacked and taken possession of Muzaffarabad and Domel and that considerable tribal reinforcement could be expected. Reports showed that they were already little more than thirty-five miles from Srinagar.[47: Alan Campbell Johnson, Mission with Mountbatten, p.120]
The British acting Commander-in-Chief of the Pakistan Army, General Gracey, sent a telegram on 24 October to the Defence Secretary which warned of "chaos in Kashmir with consequent repercussions on adjoiniong Pakistan districts and inter-Dominion border". It said: "Consider only way to prevent further tribal incursion and persuade return of lashkars already in Kashmir is for tribal leaders to be told categorically that policy of Pakistan Government was and still is strict neutrality".
Of course, Yusuf Saraf regards this as a yet another Mountbatten conspiracy- Seriously? Does he mean conspiracy against Pakistan? How? Why would Mountbatten rush and have a secret meeting in Pakistan, with all his British officers of India and Pakistan, to conspire against Pakistan on Kashmir, when the invasion itself was already being launched from the Pakistani side? Does this make any sense anywhere? — Tyler Durden (talk) 18:02, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
If Mountbatten went without Auchinleck, that would be really odd, because he had no authority over Gracey to tell him what to do. He could do that only if he was relaying instructions from Whitehall.— He had no authority. But he can just warn him of the possible consequences, if this goes to his superiors. That would be enough for a sane Gracey to take a step back. — Tyler Durden (talk) 11:21, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
References
Yusuf Saraf also completely discounts the first Provisional Government. It was apparently formed in Lahore.when he himself was in Lahore running the liberation movement's "Publicity Bureau", but he was told nothing about it. It was apparently formed by the Mirza, and all the people involved were Ahmadiyyas, including Gilkar. Gilkar then went to Rawalpindi and issued press notices. But there was no known involvement of the liberation movement itself in either the formation or the announcement. It looks like Snedden got this controversy right. Sardar Ibrahim was certainly running things during this period. (But the information we have put on the page is from Das Gupta, cites Civil & Military Gazette, 7 November 1947.)
On 25 October, Yusuf Saraf gave a speech in Lahore where he mentioned the (second) Provisional Government and Hamidullah objected to the mention saying that it was unauthorised. However, on 4 November, a meeting was held in Rawalpindi, where everybody accepted Sardar Ibrahim as president. (This part is fine as narrated by Shams Rehman.)
So, things were quite chaotic, with infighting and all. Shams Rehman is right that both the governments were announced at the instigation of Pakistan, presumably to provide cover for the military actions being launched, but the Muslim Conference ratified it (in a manner of speaking) on 4 November. The appointed minister from Jammu arranged for lorry-loads of refugee civil servants to be shipped from Jammu, who were then appointed to their respective departments, with promotions, in the new government. But, all these ministers and officials had nothing to do for a quite a while! -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 12:26, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
Gilkar then went to Rawalpindi and issued press notices.- Wasn't Gikar arrested in Srinagar, and that's how the first provisional government fizzled out, as the article says now?
As we have read elsewhere, there were two D-days: 6 October, when the Poonch Rebellion was launched, and 22 October, when the tribal invasion was launched. I haven't yet located this discussion in the book, but there is some evidene that the second D-day of 22 October was inconvenient from the Pakistani point of view. Saraf says that, after Abdullah's release, roughly a week before his trip to Delhi, three Punjabi politicians visited him including Mian Iftikharuddin. Abdullah mentioned the other two in his autobiography but omitted Iftikharuddin. According to Saraf, the three of them persuaded Abdullah to support accession to Pakistan. Sheikh agreed to consider it, stated his conditions, and sent G. M. Sadiq to negotiate. He himself promised to visit Pakistan soon after his trip to Delhi. While he was still in Delhi, the invasion got launched.
How did this happen? The dates are not mentioned clearly. But I surmise that the three politicians must have visited around 12 October, a week before Abdullah's trip to Delhi around 19 October. So, on 12 October, Iftikharuddin didn't know that there was a D-day on 22 October. That seems strange. On the other hand, Major A.S.B. Shah, another central minister that was trying to negotiate with Mahajan in Srinagar, seems to have known. He was giving ultimatums. "Sign this or else..." After being turned down, he went back to Pakistan and warned Khan Abdul Qayyum Khan on 18 October that aggression on Kashmir would provoke the Maharaja to accede to India.
Iftikharuddin must have been in touch with Liaquat Ali Khan. He was in the planning meeting on 12 September. So, this seems to imply that the timetable was not under the control of Liaquat Ali Khan. Who was controlling it?
There are also issues with numbers. Saraf says that Khurshid Anwar arranged with Khan Abdul Qayyum Khan for 2,000 tribesmen. But Anwar said he went in with 4,000 tribesmen. But other independent observers have said in excess of 12,000. These tribesmen apparently kept on coming even after the invasion started. Who was sending them? -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 22:18, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
Saraf says that, after Abdullah's release, roughly a week before his trip to Delhi, three Punjabi politicians visited him including Mian Iftikharuddin. Abdullah mentioned the other two in his autobiography but omitted Iftikharuddin.- Then how do you know that Iftikharuddin is one among the three?
Mr. Justice Sheikh Anwarul Haq, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, who accompanied the delegation to Srinagar confirmed to this writer on 28th July, 1974 while on a visit to Muzaffarabad in the company of Mr. Hamoor-ur-Rehman, Chief Justice, that it had been agreed that Sheikh Abdullah would visit Karachi after his visit to Delhi for talks with the Pakistan Government. The three Pakistani leaders then returned to Lahore.(p.95) Pretty respectable source there. Let us note that Iftikharuddin is a pretty central figure in the whole saga. Sardar Ibrahim got his attention in Lahore (and only his), and he then set the ball rolling, leading to the 12 September meeting. Iftikharuddin knew that the Muslim Conference was moribund and the National Conference held the key to the state. So he was opening a second channel.
He [Abdullah] also told them that so long as he did not come to Karachi, the situation should not be precipitated. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 06:59, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
Major A.S.B. Shah, another central minister... was giving ultimatums (to Mahajan). "Sign this or else..." After being turned down, he went back to Pakistan and warned Khan Abdul Qayyum Khan on 18 October that aggression on Kashmir would provoke the Maharaja to accede to India.- This doesn't give enough evidence to believe that he particularly knew the timeline of 22 October.
how many men have we got there? Are they getting their supplies all right?Ergo, Liaquat Ali Khan did not know about the details either. It has been outsourced to Khan Abdul.) Nobody in Poonch knew about it. General Kiani didn't know about it. The Pir of Manki Sharif didn't know about it. Thirdly, the timing of it. It was sudden and massive. Everybody was shocked, though they all welcomed it. Khurshid Anwar had totally outdone himself! Or somebody outdid him. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 07:48, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
Some revelations (p.64):
With the accession of Hari Singh, the extreme fanaticism that prevailed in the Durbar came to an end and the Swami [Sant Dev] was banished from the court. Hari Singh, it may be said to his credit, was a liberal-minded ruler when he ascended the throne and remained so till 1931 when to his great misfortune, the political awakening among Muslims touched great heights and led to the demand for responsible government which obviously meant the end of his personal rule. Hari Singh was prepared to be liberal; he was prepared to give better treatment to his Muslim subjects than they had received before, but he was not prepared for radical political reforms.
Sheikh Abdullah says (Flames of Chinar, p.91)
The Maharaja had always appeared to be free from religious prejudices. He was close to his Muslim courtiers especially Nawab Khusro Jung, Abdul Rahman Afandi and Sahibzada Noor Mohammad. But things took a drastic turn at the time when the shuddhi and tabligh movements gathered force. Khawaja Hasan Nizami in his magazine, Manadi, announced that the Maharaja of a Hindu state was about to embrace Islam. This caused panic among the Hindus, who tightened their grip on him, and the Maharaja moved closer to the Arya Samaj camp. Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel, taking advantage of the situation, planted Mehr Chand Mahajan and Ram Lal Batra in the Kashmir administration.
In case you start wondering whether Patel did this, I don't think so. Mahajan was Hari Singh's own choice, picked in April/May 1947. It was only after Mahajan accepted the post of PM in mid-September that he visited Delhi and started talking to Patel as well as Nehru about Kashmir. There is no evidence that either of them had any influence with Hari Singh prior to this. (In fact, they were considered "enemies".) It is true that Hari Singh got under the influence of Arya Samaj towards 1946-47, but that was most likely due to his wife, Tara Devi, and also the prevailing partition tensions. Both Mahajan and Batra might have been the Maharani's choices. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 10:23, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
Hello Tyler Durden, you leaved a message in my talk page. i am new in wikipedia, so i am learning how to edit :) How did you added the smiley emoji in edit. Please tell me. -- WikiBodhiVamsa ( talk) 07:12, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
(tps) @ WikiBodhiVamsa: do you understand why your previous accounts got blocked? -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 09:07, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
Krishna Mehta, the wife of the wazir-i-wazarat of Muzaffarabad, survived the tribal raid, and after several ordeals, got returned to India. She later became an MP from Kashmir. Some of what she says: [1]
Both the raiders understood Hindustani and they were in a fix as to how to answer my question. They could not help agreeing iwth me, and said, "Islam does not teach us to torture people. In that you are right. But we are helpless. We are here to carry out orders." (p.33)
Meanwhile, the tribesmen who had earlier carried away several women from our party returned. Among them were also Muslim deserters from Jammu and Mirputi [Mirpur?]. The scramble started all over again. Every woman was surrounded by a host of raiders, tormented and bullied. The rebels proved to be much worse than the tribesmen; they were more callous and more brutal. They snatched away children sleeping cosily in their mothers' laps and flung them to the ground and dragged the women out of the room. (p.37)
Our guide was hardly twenty-two and on the way I tried to talk to him. "Why have you left your home and come all this way?" I asked.
"Because the rulers of Pakistan told us that Islam was in danger and the Muslims in Kashmir were being tyrannized and their women threatened with dishonour," was the ready answer that he made.
"Do you get paid for all this?" I enquired out of sheer curiosity. "Oh, no," he said, "nothing has been decided so far. We have only been told to kill the Hindus, carry away the girl of our choice, plunder anything that we can lay hands on, and burn the houses down. Of course, what we really want is the land." (p.43)
-- Kautilya3 ( talk) 23:32, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
References
Hi,
I am not sure what your interests are on wikipedia, but would you please consider becoming
Wikipedia:New pages patrol/Reviewers? Reviewing/patrolling a page doesn't take much time, currently wikipedia needs experienced users at this task. (After gaining the right, patrolling is not mandatory. One can do it at their convenience). But kindly read the tutorial before making your decision. Thanks. —usernamekiran
(talk)
17:46, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
I understand that you are frustrated, but tone down those edit summaries a trifle. A lot of POV pushers will be removed by this community eventually, but that process becomes longer and more difficult if the folks who are sticking to policy are loosing their cool. Regards, Vanamonde ( talk) 10:40, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
+2 From Gandhi and Nehru. They always practised and preached patience and tolerance towards everyone and everything in their life. Mahant Yogi Adityanath ( talk) 08:40, 18 June 2017 (UTC) And please don't block me using something. I am someone who loves you. I am not Bodhivamsa. I only disturbed you. I did not disturb any others like him. And I have a lot of respect for comrades. You had good evidence for Bodhivamsa which I saw on others talkpage. You wasted all of it by including me in the complaint. Mahant Yogi Adityanath ( talk) 08:54, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
Hello. Your account has been granted the "pending changes reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on pages protected by pending changes. The list of articles awaiting review is located at Special:PendingChanges, while the list of articles that have pending changes protection turned on is located at Special:StablePages.
Being granted reviewer rights neither grants you status nor changes how you can edit articles. If you do not want this user right, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time.
See also:
Mz7 ( talk) 22:18, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
Idiot. I made 10 undeleted edits. Nobody welcomed me except the automatic XLinkBot because I made one copyright infringement in external links. You come and send me a welcome message soon. Signature: Marla Durden ( talk) 14:35, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
"This edit has been prevented because unregistered and new editors can not modify other editors' userpages, or you attempted to add or remove unlocked userpage when you are not the owner of the userpage. If you want to contact this editor, you may do so at the editor's talk page. Requests for changes can be made there as well. If this is your userpage, please log in to edit your userpage." So I am contacting you on your talk page. Give me your log in. ^_^ Signature: Marla Durden ( talk) 15:13, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
Sorry, I alone am responsible for this. Sorry for creating a lot of trouble and bothering many people. I promise to be careful from now onwards and not do anything inappropriate. Besides I will only make small changes in small pages. Thank you all for your time. Tyler Durden, thanks a lot for your kind compliments. I am honored. Signature: Marla Durden ( talk) 08:14, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
Karan Singh says [3]:
... the "major mistake" New Delhi has been making in the past few decades on Kashmir issue was approaching it as an issue of the Valley.
"There is no such state called Kashmir. The state is called Jammu and Kashmir. The major mistake was to approach it as Kashmir issue. They are realising it now," he said.
He said that after the Dogra rule was abolished the "glue that had held the state together "disappeared" and Sheikh Abdullah could never make peace with Dogras.
-- Kautilya3 ( talk) 07:56, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
There is no such state called Kashmir- Its true that the issue was never dealt from the angle of Jammu vs Kashmir, as Balaj Puri also states in his article. But the Kashmiris have been mainly & largely demanding to liberate the state called Kashmir.
{{
unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}
.
Bishonen |
talk
19:20, 20 June 2017 (UTC)Tyler Durden ( block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser ( log))
Request reason:
The first big mistake I have made was to let Marla Durden use my account for editing my user page (these were the four edits that were made in that way: [4] [5] [6] [7]), and that's a severe irresponsibility on my part, for which I apologize. As to the account of Marla Durden, it was created by my sister. I did tutor her in the ways of Wikipedia and showed her my editing and my edits, when she sits beside me while I'm online. But I did not influence her into doing anything, neither creating an account nor making the disruptive edits she has made. However I do take the blame for indirectly bringing an irresponsible editor to WP. It is quite obvious that a CU check would come out positive for my account and the account of Marla Durden, as the two accounts have come from the same house. As for the account of Mahant Yogi Adityanath, I had no idea where that account came from when I got triggered (both by its name and behaviour in the article) and warred with that account on the Cattle slaughter in India article, in fact, I thought that it came from another sock farm, which I was warring with back then. But after the CU tagged it as my sock, I suspect that it was my sister herself who handled that account for that short period of time to play a prank with me. However, I have no way to prove or verify this suspicion even for myself, at this stage. I'm aware that this appears as a lame excuse for being WP:LITTLESISTER, but I'm helpless since that's what has happened to me. I'm sorry for all the damage that has been caused due to this whole episode, and all the time that has been wasted of several people of the community. Please forgive me for this time, and I'll be much much more careful with everything on WP. I'm requesting this unblock so that I can come back and make my contributions in the peaceful areas of the project. Best, Tyler Durden (talk) 01:53, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
Decline reason:
Decline per Bbb23's comments below. Please follow his suggestion to return in no less than 6 months to prove your ability to keep others from accessing your devices. only ( talk) 14:34, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{ unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
Tyler, please answer the following questions:
If you do not wish to answer these questions publicly, you can e-mail me the answers, although I may share those answers with other CheckUsers or administrators within the bounds of policy. Thanks.-- Bbb23 ( talk) 13:44, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
I saw your Afd nomination of 2017 Pratapgarh lynching and also voted there. While the article is clear violation of few policies, I am not sure if the article creator is here to edit articles neutrally and he even tagged your nomination as "confirmed sockpuppet", [10] I have removed the striking [11] because you were not in violation nor you are a sock(but a master). I have not checked all edits of this editor but nominated another similar article: 2017 Alwar mob lynching. Capitals00 ( talk) 08:44, 23 June 2017 (UTC)
Greetings,
It is being planned to organize Wikigraphists Bootcamp in India, please fill out the survey form to help the organizers. Your responses will help organizers understand what level of demand there is for the event (how many people in your community think it is important that the event happens). At the end of the day, the participants will turn out to have knowledge to create drawings, illustrations, diagrams, maps, graphs, bar charts etc. and get to know to how to tune the images to meet the QI and FP criteria. For more information and link to survey form, please visit Talk:Wikigraphists Bootcamp (2018 India). MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 12:46, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
In 2017 - 2018, the Wikimedia Foundation and Google working in close coordination with the Centre for Internet and Society (CIS), Wikimedia India chapter (WMIN) and user groups will pilot a program encouraging Wikipedia communities to create locally relevant and high-quality content in Indian languages. This program (Code name: Project Tiger) will:
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In 2017 – 2018, the Wikimedia Foundation and Google working in close coordination with the Centre for Internet and Society (CIS), Wikimedia India Chapter (WMIN) and user groups from India, are piloting a program encouraging Wikipedia communities to create locally relevant and high-quality content in Indian languages. This program will (a) support active and experienced Wikipedia editors through the donation of laptops and stipends for internet access and (b) sponsor a language-based contest that aims to address existing Wikipedia content gaps.
Phase (a) has been completed, during which active contributors were awarded laptops and internet stipends. Phase (b) will be a contest in which editors will come together and develop a writing contest focused on content gaps. Each month three individual prizes will be awarded to each community based on their contribution for the month. The prizes worth 3,000 INR, 2000 INR, and 1,000 INR, will be awarded to the top contributors for each month. The contest started at March 1, 2018, 0:00, and will end at May 31, 2018, 23:59 (IST). Useful links are as follows:
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Hello and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. The following links will help you begin editing on Wikipedia:
The Wikipedia tutorial is a good place to start learning about Wikipedia. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and discussion pages using four tildes, like this: ~~~~ (the software will replace them with your signature and the date). Again, welcome! Kautilya3 ( talk) 16:58, 25 November 2016 (UTC)
As early as 13 September, armed Pathans had drifted into Lahore and Rawalpindi, and some Swatis had crossed into the Vale. About a week later, according to a deputy commissioner of Dera Ismail Khan, a scheme was launched to send tribesmen from Malakand to Sialkot, in lorries provided by the Pakistan Government.[71: Stephens, Pakistan, 1967, p.200] The report also referred to preparations in early October by Swat, Dir, and Chitral to attack Kashmir from the north-west. The Wali of Swat, a developed state, was an ambitious man. He had sought the governorship of the NWFP. It was now believed that he had been promised Kashmir if he could seize it. Cunningham knew that he 'had put up a lot of money for expenses of the Kashmir campaign'.[72: Cunningham's Diary, 26 Oct. 1947] He noted, too, that the Pir of Wana had personally recruited thousands of Mahsuds.[73: Cunningham's Diary, 26 and 30 Oct. 1947] There is little doubt that at the time when the north-western offensive began, Pathans were active further south in raids all along the Punjab border, from the Indus to the Ravi. The Maharaja and his PM complained of raiding, looting, and burning from Kathua to Kotli.[74: Mahajan to Patel, 23 Oct. 1947, Das, i.64-6]. Beside the clashes between rebels and the State forces, and the incursions of the raiders, Punjabi refugees in Kashmir heightened the communal temperature. [1]
-- Kautilya3 ( talk) 23:44, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
The Theory 1 was that the Poonchis went to NWFP for arms, and the Pashtuns heard about the atrocities committed agains them and spontaneously decide to invade Kashmir (all on the same day of course). There have always been significant number of British commentators who supported this theory.
The Theory 2 that has been propagated by whisle-blowing Pakistanis is that the Prime Minister Liaquat Ali Khan ordered the invasion. A meeting on 12 September has been mentioned, where 3 plans were discussed, one to arm the Poonchis, one to organise Pashtun tribals, and the third to organise the former INA officers and other interested Pakistanis from Punjab.
The Theory 3 is that the Pakistani Army organised the invasion under a plan called Operation Gulmarg. It has been discussed in detail by Indian military authors: Bajwa, [2] Jasbir Singh, [3] and various others. It was also mentioned breifly by K. V. Krishna Rao [4] and Arjun Subrahmaniam, [5] But some of the details were vague or inconsistent. A couple of days ago, I decided to check Kalkat's book [6] and, after squeezing enough information from Google snippet view, the details are fairly clear.
Major O. S. Kalkat was serving in the
Bannu Brigade at
Bannu at the time of partition. He was scheduled to leave for India at the beginning of September. On 20 August, when he was deputising for his commanding officer Brig. C. P. Murry (probably "Murray") who was away, there arrived in the post a letter marked "Personal - Top Secret". In it was a letter from General
Frank Messervy attaching the plan for Operation Gulmarg. He was shocked, but quickly realized that the letter had to be personally acknowledged by his brigadier within 24 hours. So, he called him to return to base and gave him the letter. Probably the delay in the acknowledgement was enough for the higher officials to suspect foul play and he was put under house arrest. He escaped, reached Delhi on 18 October, and gave his information to a Gen. Kalwant Singh, Gen. Thapar and the defene minister Sardar Baldev Singh. None of them seems to have believed him. He was recalled on the 24th October after Nehru heard about it after the Operation Gulmarg started.
We don't have the official document that details what the the Army took down from him. Instead, we have the version published in Kalkat's book. I can't say whether this is exactly what he knew on 18th October or he modified it in the light of later events. The format of the version does look like the kind of thing he would have told the officials, point by point. If this is true, then the Theory 2 is entirely fictitious, a decoy meant for our consumption. Accordint to the Operation Gulmarg,
Now, notice the corroboration from RJ Moore. It is known that, by 13 September, the Pathans were on the move. Deputy Commissioner of Dera Ismail Khan was involved. Malakand Agency, Swat (princely state), Dir (princely state) and Chitral (princely state) were involved, which were all under the control of Political Agents. And, Pathans were being shipped to Sialkot.
The question now is, who ordered this operation? Obviously, General Messervy couldn't do it on his own. Neither did Liaquat Ali Khan have the power to order the General. Only Jinnah could have ordered it, and the British government had to be in on it. The implications are mind-boggling. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 16:05, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
After few months Professor Ishaq and Ch Hameed ullah met Quaid e Azam in Karachi where according to professor Qureshi Mr Jinnah asked them annoyingly that why we caused all the mess in Kashmir despite his advice not to indulge in violence? Professor Qureshi said we did not do this. It was your Prime Minister and other top officials who staged the invasion. Mr Qureshi told me that when I said this, Quaid e Azam who was sitting on sofa upwards and leaning towards front, almost fell back against the back of sofa, closed his eyes and did not speak a word for few minutes.This is also a part of decoying? Please remember, Theory 3 alone, is literally rewriting the history. — TylerDurden10 ( talk) 23:21, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
Disgusted with Liaquats conduct in Kashmir war Akbar later planned a coup against him in 1950.[8]
The Brigadier arrived at Bannu on 21st August; and soon I presented the vital document to him. He read it and stood aghast. For a long time he stared into the distance with astonishment. It seemed to have upset him a great deal; probably he did not expect that the newly split Indian and Pakistan armies, with the exigencies of the partition had torn apart, should come to such a pass to fight each other.The Mr. X must have been extremely powerful to pull this off. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 12:21, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
The major questions, when you have time:
— TylerDurden10 ( talk) 13:47, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
Sorry for demolishing your expectations. But that is how science progresses. New evidence leads to new theories. The new theory is not anything if not earth-shaking. The India-Pakistan conflict was created by the British. The plans were prepared by the British officers, well before independence. There were only six Pakistani officers at the rank of Colonel or above in 1947, most of them in non-combat roles. It was the British officers that were running the show. 20,000 Pashtun tribesmen were brought to six Brigade headquarters, many of them in which the Kashmir forces themselves fought togethter in the Second World War, in order to wage war on those very forces. Lockhart's testimony is mind-numbing for its callousness:
"The Prime Minister sent for me on the morning of 26th January. I walked over to his office and found him looking stern and somewhat agitated. Without any preliminaries, he asked me whether I had been given prior information about the massing of Pathan tribesmen near Attock just before the tribal invasion of Kashmir. I was quite taken aback, not so much at having to answer the question but because I realised that the only person who could have fed this information to the P.M. was Roy Bucher. A few days previously I had told him about the incident of General Sir Douglas Gracey's telephone conversation with me in late October – which I had subsequently forgotten about. I had mentioned the incident to no one else...." [15]
This is the Commander-in-Chief of Indian Army speaking: subsequently forgotten about. He was more concerned about the treachery of his own subordinate officer than with his own total disregard for his office. Do you know that the British burnt all their documents regarding princely states before they handed things over to the Indians? When the war started, India did not even have a map of Kashmir. The navy was intercepting Pakistan Army communications throughout October, but they didn't have any clue where this action was taking place. Where the hell was "Sensa"?
Indian incompetence in handling Kalkat's information is also mind-boggling. "Sardar" Baldev Singh imagined that a Sikh officer who risked his family to urgently reach Delhi to convey the information in time, was hallucinating! [16] Nehru got mad that Kalkat was ignored. But he didn't process the information either. Did it register with him that the orders were issued on 20th August, by the British C-in-C of Pakistan to British officers? That should have been enough for him to raise hell with Britain. Kalkat's information doesn't appear in the White Paper either. Nobody in India paid any attention to Kalkat's information except the Army people themselves, and that too after Kalkat published his memoirs. And, why is Arjun Subramaniam, the only one outside the Army circles that covered the information doing it so incompetently? Even if nobody else does, one would expect India's security establishment to process the information with the due care that it deserves.
So, there is plenty for you to do. Perhaps not on Wikipedia, but in real world where things should actually happen. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 08:36, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
I added a section in the Indo-Pakistani War of 1947 page. I have my doubts about the claimed leadership by Akbar Khan. For one, he was a Colonel at that time but Kalkat refers to him as "General". He also says that Akbar Khan was to be assisted by Brigadier Sher Khan, even though Sher Khan was senior to him. It is possible that Kalkat's description is the 1983 version, not what he saw in 1947. Somebody needs to find the record from 1947 for this to go anywhere. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 17:17, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
References
I am trying to see what was known about Kalkat before the publication of his book. Absolutely nothing. Here is a book [1] published in 1982, which has loads of analysis about the British. It even has a chapter called British complicity in invasion of Kashmir. But no mention of Kalkat. About Messervy, we learn:
Pakistan C-in-C, General Messervy returned to Pakistan from London via New Delhi where he had a meeting with Mountbatten,[22] perhaps to give him a fuller briefing on behalf of the British Cabinet or the Service Chiefs on the lines of action recommended by them. This supposiiton is based on the fact that from New Delhi, Messervy went to Rawalpindi and before settling down to his work went to Peshawar to talk to Cunningham. The instructions from London evidently had to be relayed on to all the Englishmen concerned. [2]
Cunningham records:
"Messervy came up from Pindi for a talk; just back from England. He was in Delhi two days ago and was surprised to find Mountbatten directing the military operations in Kashmir. M. B. is daily becoming more and more an anathema to our Muslims, and it certainly seems as if he could see nothing except through Hindu eyes." (November 7, 1947). [3]
If "we" can have "our Muslims", why not Mountbatten have "his Hindus"? Obviously not. Being British, he is not allowed to favour "Hindus". That is so very un-British.
While India’s intervention was militarily successful, it was also highly controversial. General Sir Frank Messervy, Commander-in-Chief of the Pakistan Army, alleged that India had planned to militarily intervene in the state several weeks before the event (Messervy 1949). [4]
Still think Nehru doesn't deserve those paperweights? -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 21:26, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
"Several weeeks before the event
". Perhaps Messery believed that information about his operation got leaked to India several weeks before the event? It would then make sense to assume that India was well-prepared? --
Kautilya3 (
talk)
11:15, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
References
Generall Muhammad Musa revealed in Dawn, 1 September 1970 that Mountbatten secretly flew to Lahore sometime between 22nd and 27th October. He was accompanied by senior British officers of the Indian Army. He gave no advance announcement and did not inform the Pakistan government, even after landing. [1]
One morning in October 1947 I was rung by the Pakistan Air Force Control room and was told that a few British General Officers had landed at the airport (Walton) and another aircraft was due in shortly from India, carrying VIPs... No one in our HQ had any previous warning of their visit. I went to the airport. The C-in-C of both the dominions [does this include Auchinleck?] and their senior officers were standing outside our improvised reception office. The Pakistan Chief of General Staff had told me that they had come for a meeting with their Indian counterparts regarding the developments in Kashmir and I was to make the necessary arrangement immediately. As far as I can recollect, Lord Mountbatten had also come. ... The meeting lasted till lunch time. No Pakistani officer attended it. I, therefore, could not ascertain the decisions arrived at between the representatives of two States despite my relentless efforts to ascertain the outcome of discussions.
From what we know, R. L. Batra had come to Delhi on 24th, and, that evening, Nehru took Mountbatten aside during a State dinner and told him about the invasion of Kashmir. It appears from several sources that Mountbatten already knew about it. On 25th morning, there was a Defence Committee meeting. On 26th morning, Mahajan came to meet Nehru at his house, after which there was another Defence Committee meeting.
So this visit could have happened only on the 23rd or 24th morning. I would guess 24th. Messervy was already in London. So they would have had to meet Gracey. We have to conclude that Gracey was in Lahore that day, and they called and found out where he was, before landing. Or, perhaps, the first flight brought Gracey from Rawalpindi and the second flight from Delhi brought Mountbatten and Indian officers.
Of course, Yusuf Saraf regards this as a yet another Mountbatten conspiracy, but we know better. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 13:15, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
The request of the Maharaja was considered by the Defence Committee of India, presided over by Lord Mountbatten, on 25 October [at 11:00am], at which General Lockhart, Commander-inchief of the Indian Army, read out a telegram from the Headquarters of the Pakistan Army (similarly manned by the Britishers) stating that some five thousand tribesmen had attacked and taken possession of Muzaffarabad and Domel and that considerable tribal reinforcement could be expected. Reports showed that they were already little more than thirty-five miles from Srinagar.[47: Alan Campbell Johnson, Mission with Mountbatten, p.120]
The British acting Commander-in-Chief of the Pakistan Army, General Gracey, sent a telegram on 24 October to the Defence Secretary which warned of "chaos in Kashmir with consequent repercussions on adjoiniong Pakistan districts and inter-Dominion border". It said: "Consider only way to prevent further tribal incursion and persuade return of lashkars already in Kashmir is for tribal leaders to be told categorically that policy of Pakistan Government was and still is strict neutrality".
Of course, Yusuf Saraf regards this as a yet another Mountbatten conspiracy- Seriously? Does he mean conspiracy against Pakistan? How? Why would Mountbatten rush and have a secret meeting in Pakistan, with all his British officers of India and Pakistan, to conspire against Pakistan on Kashmir, when the invasion itself was already being launched from the Pakistani side? Does this make any sense anywhere? — Tyler Durden (talk) 18:02, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
If Mountbatten went without Auchinleck, that would be really odd, because he had no authority over Gracey to tell him what to do. He could do that only if he was relaying instructions from Whitehall.— He had no authority. But he can just warn him of the possible consequences, if this goes to his superiors. That would be enough for a sane Gracey to take a step back. — Tyler Durden (talk) 11:21, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
References
Yusuf Saraf also completely discounts the first Provisional Government. It was apparently formed in Lahore.when he himself was in Lahore running the liberation movement's "Publicity Bureau", but he was told nothing about it. It was apparently formed by the Mirza, and all the people involved were Ahmadiyyas, including Gilkar. Gilkar then went to Rawalpindi and issued press notices. But there was no known involvement of the liberation movement itself in either the formation or the announcement. It looks like Snedden got this controversy right. Sardar Ibrahim was certainly running things during this period. (But the information we have put on the page is from Das Gupta, cites Civil & Military Gazette, 7 November 1947.)
On 25 October, Yusuf Saraf gave a speech in Lahore where he mentioned the (second) Provisional Government and Hamidullah objected to the mention saying that it was unauthorised. However, on 4 November, a meeting was held in Rawalpindi, where everybody accepted Sardar Ibrahim as president. (This part is fine as narrated by Shams Rehman.)
So, things were quite chaotic, with infighting and all. Shams Rehman is right that both the governments were announced at the instigation of Pakistan, presumably to provide cover for the military actions being launched, but the Muslim Conference ratified it (in a manner of speaking) on 4 November. The appointed minister from Jammu arranged for lorry-loads of refugee civil servants to be shipped from Jammu, who were then appointed to their respective departments, with promotions, in the new government. But, all these ministers and officials had nothing to do for a quite a while! -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 12:26, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
Gilkar then went to Rawalpindi and issued press notices.- Wasn't Gikar arrested in Srinagar, and that's how the first provisional government fizzled out, as the article says now?
As we have read elsewhere, there were two D-days: 6 October, when the Poonch Rebellion was launched, and 22 October, when the tribal invasion was launched. I haven't yet located this discussion in the book, but there is some evidene that the second D-day of 22 October was inconvenient from the Pakistani point of view. Saraf says that, after Abdullah's release, roughly a week before his trip to Delhi, three Punjabi politicians visited him including Mian Iftikharuddin. Abdullah mentioned the other two in his autobiography but omitted Iftikharuddin. According to Saraf, the three of them persuaded Abdullah to support accession to Pakistan. Sheikh agreed to consider it, stated his conditions, and sent G. M. Sadiq to negotiate. He himself promised to visit Pakistan soon after his trip to Delhi. While he was still in Delhi, the invasion got launched.
How did this happen? The dates are not mentioned clearly. But I surmise that the three politicians must have visited around 12 October, a week before Abdullah's trip to Delhi around 19 October. So, on 12 October, Iftikharuddin didn't know that there was a D-day on 22 October. That seems strange. On the other hand, Major A.S.B. Shah, another central minister that was trying to negotiate with Mahajan in Srinagar, seems to have known. He was giving ultimatums. "Sign this or else..." After being turned down, he went back to Pakistan and warned Khan Abdul Qayyum Khan on 18 October that aggression on Kashmir would provoke the Maharaja to accede to India.
Iftikharuddin must have been in touch with Liaquat Ali Khan. He was in the planning meeting on 12 September. So, this seems to imply that the timetable was not under the control of Liaquat Ali Khan. Who was controlling it?
There are also issues with numbers. Saraf says that Khurshid Anwar arranged with Khan Abdul Qayyum Khan for 2,000 tribesmen. But Anwar said he went in with 4,000 tribesmen. But other independent observers have said in excess of 12,000. These tribesmen apparently kept on coming even after the invasion started. Who was sending them? -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 22:18, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
Saraf says that, after Abdullah's release, roughly a week before his trip to Delhi, three Punjabi politicians visited him including Mian Iftikharuddin. Abdullah mentioned the other two in his autobiography but omitted Iftikharuddin.- Then how do you know that Iftikharuddin is one among the three?
Mr. Justice Sheikh Anwarul Haq, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, who accompanied the delegation to Srinagar confirmed to this writer on 28th July, 1974 while on a visit to Muzaffarabad in the company of Mr. Hamoor-ur-Rehman, Chief Justice, that it had been agreed that Sheikh Abdullah would visit Karachi after his visit to Delhi for talks with the Pakistan Government. The three Pakistani leaders then returned to Lahore.(p.95) Pretty respectable source there. Let us note that Iftikharuddin is a pretty central figure in the whole saga. Sardar Ibrahim got his attention in Lahore (and only his), and he then set the ball rolling, leading to the 12 September meeting. Iftikharuddin knew that the Muslim Conference was moribund and the National Conference held the key to the state. So he was opening a second channel.
He [Abdullah] also told them that so long as he did not come to Karachi, the situation should not be precipitated. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 06:59, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
Major A.S.B. Shah, another central minister... was giving ultimatums (to Mahajan). "Sign this or else..." After being turned down, he went back to Pakistan and warned Khan Abdul Qayyum Khan on 18 October that aggression on Kashmir would provoke the Maharaja to accede to India.- This doesn't give enough evidence to believe that he particularly knew the timeline of 22 October.
how many men have we got there? Are they getting their supplies all right?Ergo, Liaquat Ali Khan did not know about the details either. It has been outsourced to Khan Abdul.) Nobody in Poonch knew about it. General Kiani didn't know about it. The Pir of Manki Sharif didn't know about it. Thirdly, the timing of it. It was sudden and massive. Everybody was shocked, though they all welcomed it. Khurshid Anwar had totally outdone himself! Or somebody outdid him. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 07:48, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
Some revelations (p.64):
With the accession of Hari Singh, the extreme fanaticism that prevailed in the Durbar came to an end and the Swami [Sant Dev] was banished from the court. Hari Singh, it may be said to his credit, was a liberal-minded ruler when he ascended the throne and remained so till 1931 when to his great misfortune, the political awakening among Muslims touched great heights and led to the demand for responsible government which obviously meant the end of his personal rule. Hari Singh was prepared to be liberal; he was prepared to give better treatment to his Muslim subjects than they had received before, but he was not prepared for radical political reforms.
Sheikh Abdullah says (Flames of Chinar, p.91)
The Maharaja had always appeared to be free from religious prejudices. He was close to his Muslim courtiers especially Nawab Khusro Jung, Abdul Rahman Afandi and Sahibzada Noor Mohammad. But things took a drastic turn at the time when the shuddhi and tabligh movements gathered force. Khawaja Hasan Nizami in his magazine, Manadi, announced that the Maharaja of a Hindu state was about to embrace Islam. This caused panic among the Hindus, who tightened their grip on him, and the Maharaja moved closer to the Arya Samaj camp. Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel, taking advantage of the situation, planted Mehr Chand Mahajan and Ram Lal Batra in the Kashmir administration.
In case you start wondering whether Patel did this, I don't think so. Mahajan was Hari Singh's own choice, picked in April/May 1947. It was only after Mahajan accepted the post of PM in mid-September that he visited Delhi and started talking to Patel as well as Nehru about Kashmir. There is no evidence that either of them had any influence with Hari Singh prior to this. (In fact, they were considered "enemies".) It is true that Hari Singh got under the influence of Arya Samaj towards 1946-47, but that was most likely due to his wife, Tara Devi, and also the prevailing partition tensions. Both Mahajan and Batra might have been the Maharani's choices. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 10:23, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
Hello Tyler Durden, you leaved a message in my talk page. i am new in wikipedia, so i am learning how to edit :) How did you added the smiley emoji in edit. Please tell me. -- WikiBodhiVamsa ( talk) 07:12, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
(tps) @ WikiBodhiVamsa: do you understand why your previous accounts got blocked? -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 09:07, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
Krishna Mehta, the wife of the wazir-i-wazarat of Muzaffarabad, survived the tribal raid, and after several ordeals, got returned to India. She later became an MP from Kashmir. Some of what she says: [1]
Both the raiders understood Hindustani and they were in a fix as to how to answer my question. They could not help agreeing iwth me, and said, "Islam does not teach us to torture people. In that you are right. But we are helpless. We are here to carry out orders." (p.33)
Meanwhile, the tribesmen who had earlier carried away several women from our party returned. Among them were also Muslim deserters from Jammu and Mirputi [Mirpur?]. The scramble started all over again. Every woman was surrounded by a host of raiders, tormented and bullied. The rebels proved to be much worse than the tribesmen; they were more callous and more brutal. They snatched away children sleeping cosily in their mothers' laps and flung them to the ground and dragged the women out of the room. (p.37)
Our guide was hardly twenty-two and on the way I tried to talk to him. "Why have you left your home and come all this way?" I asked.
"Because the rulers of Pakistan told us that Islam was in danger and the Muslims in Kashmir were being tyrannized and their women threatened with dishonour," was the ready answer that he made.
"Do you get paid for all this?" I enquired out of sheer curiosity. "Oh, no," he said, "nothing has been decided so far. We have only been told to kill the Hindus, carry away the girl of our choice, plunder anything that we can lay hands on, and burn the houses down. Of course, what we really want is the land." (p.43)
-- Kautilya3 ( talk) 23:32, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
References
Hi,
I am not sure what your interests are on wikipedia, but would you please consider becoming
Wikipedia:New pages patrol/Reviewers? Reviewing/patrolling a page doesn't take much time, currently wikipedia needs experienced users at this task. (After gaining the right, patrolling is not mandatory. One can do it at their convenience). But kindly read the tutorial before making your decision. Thanks. —usernamekiran
(talk)
17:46, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
I understand that you are frustrated, but tone down those edit summaries a trifle. A lot of POV pushers will be removed by this community eventually, but that process becomes longer and more difficult if the folks who are sticking to policy are loosing their cool. Regards, Vanamonde ( talk) 10:40, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
+2 From Gandhi and Nehru. They always practised and preached patience and tolerance towards everyone and everything in their life. Mahant Yogi Adityanath ( talk) 08:40, 18 June 2017 (UTC) And please don't block me using something. I am someone who loves you. I am not Bodhivamsa. I only disturbed you. I did not disturb any others like him. And I have a lot of respect for comrades. You had good evidence for Bodhivamsa which I saw on others talkpage. You wasted all of it by including me in the complaint. Mahant Yogi Adityanath ( talk) 08:54, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
Hello. Your account has been granted the "pending changes reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on pages protected by pending changes. The list of articles awaiting review is located at Special:PendingChanges, while the list of articles that have pending changes protection turned on is located at Special:StablePages.
Being granted reviewer rights neither grants you status nor changes how you can edit articles. If you do not want this user right, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time.
See also:
Mz7 ( talk) 22:18, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
Idiot. I made 10 undeleted edits. Nobody welcomed me except the automatic XLinkBot because I made one copyright infringement in external links. You come and send me a welcome message soon. Signature: Marla Durden ( talk) 14:35, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
"This edit has been prevented because unregistered and new editors can not modify other editors' userpages, or you attempted to add or remove unlocked userpage when you are not the owner of the userpage. If you want to contact this editor, you may do so at the editor's talk page. Requests for changes can be made there as well. If this is your userpage, please log in to edit your userpage." So I am contacting you on your talk page. Give me your log in. ^_^ Signature: Marla Durden ( talk) 15:13, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
Sorry, I alone am responsible for this. Sorry for creating a lot of trouble and bothering many people. I promise to be careful from now onwards and not do anything inappropriate. Besides I will only make small changes in small pages. Thank you all for your time. Tyler Durden, thanks a lot for your kind compliments. I am honored. Signature: Marla Durden ( talk) 08:14, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
Karan Singh says [3]:
... the "major mistake" New Delhi has been making in the past few decades on Kashmir issue was approaching it as an issue of the Valley.
"There is no such state called Kashmir. The state is called Jammu and Kashmir. The major mistake was to approach it as Kashmir issue. They are realising it now," he said.
He said that after the Dogra rule was abolished the "glue that had held the state together "disappeared" and Sheikh Abdullah could never make peace with Dogras.
-- Kautilya3 ( talk) 07:56, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
There is no such state called Kashmir- Its true that the issue was never dealt from the angle of Jammu vs Kashmir, as Balaj Puri also states in his article. But the Kashmiris have been mainly & largely demanding to liberate the state called Kashmir.
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Bishonen |
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19:20, 20 June 2017 (UTC)Tyler Durden ( block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser ( log))
Request reason:
The first big mistake I have made was to let Marla Durden use my account for editing my user page (these were the four edits that were made in that way: [4] [5] [6] [7]), and that's a severe irresponsibility on my part, for which I apologize. As to the account of Marla Durden, it was created by my sister. I did tutor her in the ways of Wikipedia and showed her my editing and my edits, when she sits beside me while I'm online. But I did not influence her into doing anything, neither creating an account nor making the disruptive edits she has made. However I do take the blame for indirectly bringing an irresponsible editor to WP. It is quite obvious that a CU check would come out positive for my account and the account of Marla Durden, as the two accounts have come from the same house. As for the account of Mahant Yogi Adityanath, I had no idea where that account came from when I got triggered (both by its name and behaviour in the article) and warred with that account on the Cattle slaughter in India article, in fact, I thought that it came from another sock farm, which I was warring with back then. But after the CU tagged it as my sock, I suspect that it was my sister herself who handled that account for that short period of time to play a prank with me. However, I have no way to prove or verify this suspicion even for myself, at this stage. I'm aware that this appears as a lame excuse for being WP:LITTLESISTER, but I'm helpless since that's what has happened to me. I'm sorry for all the damage that has been caused due to this whole episode, and all the time that has been wasted of several people of the community. Please forgive me for this time, and I'll be much much more careful with everything on WP. I'm requesting this unblock so that I can come back and make my contributions in the peaceful areas of the project. Best, Tyler Durden (talk) 01:53, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
Decline reason:
Decline per Bbb23's comments below. Please follow his suggestion to return in no less than 6 months to prove your ability to keep others from accessing your devices. only ( talk) 14:34, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{ unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
Tyler, please answer the following questions:
If you do not wish to answer these questions publicly, you can e-mail me the answers, although I may share those answers with other CheckUsers or administrators within the bounds of policy. Thanks.-- Bbb23 ( talk) 13:44, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
I saw your Afd nomination of 2017 Pratapgarh lynching and also voted there. While the article is clear violation of few policies, I am not sure if the article creator is here to edit articles neutrally and he even tagged your nomination as "confirmed sockpuppet", [10] I have removed the striking [11] because you were not in violation nor you are a sock(but a master). I have not checked all edits of this editor but nominated another similar article: 2017 Alwar mob lynching. Capitals00 ( talk) 08:44, 23 June 2017 (UTC)
Greetings,
It is being planned to organize Wikigraphists Bootcamp in India, please fill out the survey form to help the organizers. Your responses will help organizers understand what level of demand there is for the event (how many people in your community think it is important that the event happens). At the end of the day, the participants will turn out to have knowledge to create drawings, illustrations, diagrams, maps, graphs, bar charts etc. and get to know to how to tune the images to meet the QI and FP criteria. For more information and link to survey form, please visit Talk:Wikigraphists Bootcamp (2018 India). MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 12:46, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
In 2017 - 2018, the Wikimedia Foundation and Google working in close coordination with the Centre for Internet and Society (CIS), Wikimedia India chapter (WMIN) and user groups will pilot a program encouraging Wikipedia communities to create locally relevant and high-quality content in Indian languages. This program (Code name: Project Tiger) will:
The objective of the program is to provide laptops and internet stipends for existing editors who need support to contribute more actively. 50 basic model Acer Chromebooks and Internet stipends for 100 contributors are available for distribution. Provided resources are the sole property of the beneficiaries and should be used for the betterment of the movement.
If you're an active Wikimedian, and interested to receive support from this project, please apply. It will take around 10 minutes of your time, and will ask descriptive questions about your contribution to Indic Wikimedia projects.
MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 08:12, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
In 2017 – 2018, the Wikimedia Foundation and Google working in close coordination with the Centre for Internet and Society (CIS), Wikimedia India Chapter (WMIN) and user groups from India, are piloting a program encouraging Wikipedia communities to create locally relevant and high-quality content in Indian languages. This program will (a) support active and experienced Wikipedia editors through the donation of laptops and stipends for internet access and (b) sponsor a language-based contest that aims to address existing Wikipedia content gaps.
Phase (a) has been completed, during which active contributors were awarded laptops and internet stipends. Phase (b) will be a contest in which editors will come together and develop a writing contest focused on content gaps. Each month three individual prizes will be awarded to each community based on their contribution for the month. The prizes worth 3,000 INR, 2000 INR, and 1,000 INR, will be awarded to the top contributors for each month. The contest started at March 1, 2018, 0:00, and will end at May 31, 2018, 23:59 (IST). Useful links are as follows:
Looking forward your participation, all the best. MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) on behalf of Krishna Chaitanya Velaga ( talk • mail) at 22:21, 21 March 2018 (UTC).
Namaste, Tyler Durden. We would like to inform you about the recent changes to the WikiProject. As you may know, the old newsletter for WikiProject India ceased circulation in 2010. Now we have re-launched the newsletter in a new way. As a member, you are cordially invited to subscribe to the newsletter. Thank you.
MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 18:56, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
Hi Tyler Durden! You're receiving this notification because you were previously listed at Wikipedia:WikiProject India/Members, but you haven't made any edits to the English Wikipedia in over 1 year.
Because of your inactivity, you have been removed from the list. If you would like to resubscribe, you can do so at any time by visiting Wikipedia:WikiProject India/Members.
Thank you! Message delivered to you with love by Yapperbot :) | Is this wrong? Contact my bot operator. | Sent at 22:30, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
Your account has been unblocked following a successful appeal to the Arbitration Committee. – xeno talk 15:38, 10 September 2020 (UTC)