Books & Bytes
Issue 38, January – April 2020
On behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --15:58, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
Hey Sarah,
Wiki rarely loans itself to deep discussion, but that's a really well-articulated observation: "Antisemitic themes thrive in societies that are already antisemitic. Libels don't cause antisemitism; rather, they seem to make sense only within antisemitic cultures" (emphasis mine). [1] Thanks for that, and for your overall involvement. François Robere ( talk) 10:50, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
News and updates for administrators from the past month (April 2020).
Dear Sarah, I hope you're doing well these days. I've noticed your extraordinary contributions to the Holocaust articles. There is some kind of edit war in the Genocide of Serbs in the Independent State of Croatia article. There is also an ongoing debate about the lead and Background section, the chronological order of events, broader context etc. Unfortunately, we have created a slightly tense atmosphere so far. If you have time, I would like you to look at the situation and try to give your opinion, as a neutral side with extensive experience. I would be honored if you would take a part in our discussion and improve the quality of the article. I'm sure you can help a lot. All the best.-- WEBDuB ( talk) 18:01, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
Arlington (Virginia) Public Schools' School Board last night announced the appointment of Dr. Francisco Duran to be Superintendent of Schools from June 1, 2020, to June 30, 2023. This appointment affects all 250,000 people in Arlington and many outside the county. Our local newspapers convey the story: https://www.arlnow.com/2020/05/07/nationwide-search-finds-new-aps-superintendent-in-fairfax-county/ https://www.insidenova.com/news/arlington/arlington-turns-to-fairfax-for-new-superintendent-of-schools/article_571d25d6-911c-11ea-b161-27d370a587b0.html and soon, The Washington Post. To create an article about Dr. Duran, I copied his biography from the official Fairfax Schools web page https://www.fcps.edu/staff/francisco-duran
I think his selection merits inclusion in Wikipedia as a person who will hold great influence over a large population. Jay.wind ( talk) 17:09, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
You may want to pay attention to this, we're getting the old trope of "no women editors so no women's issues are written about" ... which always strikes me as trying to shove women editors off into only a few "legitimate" subjects for them to edit. -- Ealdgyth ( talk) 01:08, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
I would appreciate it if you did not try to intimidate me with false accusations or peculiar interpretations of scope of a topic ban. As the article clearly states: "The idea originated as anticommunist propaganda at the time of the Polish–Soviet War (1919–1920) and continued through the interwar period. The term itself appeared in the post-World War period." And indeed my edit concerned events of 1968.
Rather than trying to be confrontational on the talk page or leaving intimidating messages on my talk, you could instead address the issue at hand; please stop engaging in original research on talk as an excuse to remove a source per WP:IJUSTDONTLIKEIT and if you really think that an academic book is "too old" because it's from 1991, ask for outside input at WP:RSN. That is how you're suppose resolve such a disagreement and you've been around long enough to know that. Volunteer Marek 06:13, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
@ El C, Guerillero, and Galobtter: I'm pinging you as the three uninvolved admins who closed the latest AE related to Poland and World War II. Volunteer Marek was topic-banned during WP:APL from "the history of Poland during World War II, including the Holocaust in Poland". He is editing Żydokomuna, which is about the antisemitic canard/conspiracy theory of Jewish Bolshevism in Poland. His edits to the article; and to the talk page. He says this is not covered by his topic ban. My comments to him: [2] [3] His response is above.
Would you be willing to make a determination about this without a trip to AE? I'm not asking for a sanction, just a decision about whether the article falls within the topic ban.
Żydokomuna/Jewish Bolshevism is the idea that communism was specifically Jewish or that Jews were particularly invested in communism. It's one of the founding myths of the Holocaust and World War II. Hitler stated in 1939 that another world war would mean "not the Bolshevization of earth, and thus a Jewish victory, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe". According to the historian Paul Hanebrink (A Specter Haunting Europe, Harvard University Press, p. 4:
Over the course of the twentieth century, the belief that Communism was created by a Jewish conspiracy and that Jews were therefore to blame for the crimes committed by Communist regimes became a core element of counterrevolutionary, antidemocratic, and racist ideologies in many different countries. ... During the decades between the two world wars, the idea of Judeo-Bolshevism inspired a variety of countries to enact policies that discriminated against Jews or placed them under surveillance. When Nazi Germany went to war with the Soviet Union in 1941, its leaders told themselves (and the men they commanded) that the Judeo-Bolshevik threat required them to wage war on the Eastern Front with relentless and barbarous cruelty. They also made the idea of Judeo-Bolshevism a crucial element in the origins of the Holocaust. Today, nationalist extremists and far-right movements across Europe embrace this history and make its memory central to their own political identity.
It seems self-evident to me that this falls within "the history of Poland during World War II, including the Holocaust in Poland", even without "broadly construed". SarahSV (talk) 00:34, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
I would be inclined to view this as a violation of Volunteer Marek's topic ban. The dispute is about Schatz, who is mentioned in the lead in connection with WWII. While I appreciate the effort Volunteer Marek has undertaken not to mention WWII in the course of the discussion, these mental gymnastics notwithstanding, what the article says (Schatz writing about WWII) in relation to what the dispute is about (Schatz' credentials), at the very least skirts the 'broadly construed' line. I also would caution Volunteer Marek against overly aggressive section headers: Using intimidation to gain an upper hand in a content dispute is a bit much. As is the protest that Sarah should have pinged him in a discussion they themselves started.
El_C
19:11, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
El C, what's happening in this section is the topic area in miniature. Very little of the above is true, but it's stated with a straight face, including "I am having trouble understanding why you would want to play down the negative nature of this stereotype". (I'm pinging Jpgordon, who elsewhere discussed recently why "stereotype" is weaker than "canard".) It isn't only VM; this is the situation at those articles in general, so I've decided to withdraw from editing them. I got briefly involved in response to Jan Grabowski's article in Gazeta Wyborcza complaining about the Polish Holocaust articles, but it's hopeless. It requires help from the whole community, including admins, functionaries and ArbCom. It isn't something that one editor or even a few can fix.
One thing that needs to be established is that the Antisemitism in Poland topic bans will be upheld, which is why I opened this. If that can't be resolved here, I can open an AE. But the claim that the canard of Jewish Bolshevism/Żydokomuna isn't inherently tied to the Holocaust is so outlandish that I want to persist in establishing it. I'm pinging Worm That Turned. Not expecting you to comment, but please observe what continues here, even after the case. SarahSV (talk) 23:40, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
[4].
Could someone point me to the evidence that Icewhiz threatened anyone's family or contacted anyone's employer? I realize there may not be much or any onwiki evidence, but could someone link to whatever discussion took place about it? SarahSV (talk) 19:51, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
Please tell me and the readers what the abbreviation stands for! dif — Preceding unsigned comment added by Raquel Baranow ( talk • contribs)
I don't understand why did you say my additions on The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion as "not an improvement" while I only rephrased from the same section that Hitler wrote in his own book about his view on "The Protocols." — MusenInvincible ( talk) 15:32, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
I notice that in this edit of yours you removed the first sentence that describes FGM as being practiced by several religions. Was that intentional? If yes, what's the reason (e.g. poor source)? VR talk 08:34, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for uploading File:Cover of Hypatia.jpeg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. -- B-bot ( talk) 17:29, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
The following is added as a remedy to the Antisemitism in Poland arbitration case: 7) 500/30 restriction: All IP editors, users with fewer than 500 edits, and users with less than 30 days' tenure are prohibited from editing articles related to the history of Jews and antisemitism in Poland during World War II (1933–45), including the Holocaust in Poland. This prohibition may be enforced preemptively by use of extended confirmed protection (ECP), or by other methods such as reverts, pending changes protection, and appropriate edit filters. Reverts made solely to enforce the 500/30 rule are not considered edit warring.
Passed 6 to 0 by motion at 19:57, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
For the arbitration committee, Moneytrees🌴 Talk🌲 Help out at CCI! 20:29, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
Books & Bytes
Issue 38, January – April 2020
On behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --15:58, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
Hey Sarah,
Wiki rarely loans itself to deep discussion, but that's a really well-articulated observation: "Antisemitic themes thrive in societies that are already antisemitic. Libels don't cause antisemitism; rather, they seem to make sense only within antisemitic cultures" (emphasis mine). [1] Thanks for that, and for your overall involvement. François Robere ( talk) 10:50, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
News and updates for administrators from the past month (April 2020).
Dear Sarah, I hope you're doing well these days. I've noticed your extraordinary contributions to the Holocaust articles. There is some kind of edit war in the Genocide of Serbs in the Independent State of Croatia article. There is also an ongoing debate about the lead and Background section, the chronological order of events, broader context etc. Unfortunately, we have created a slightly tense atmosphere so far. If you have time, I would like you to look at the situation and try to give your opinion, as a neutral side with extensive experience. I would be honored if you would take a part in our discussion and improve the quality of the article. I'm sure you can help a lot. All the best.-- WEBDuB ( talk) 18:01, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
Arlington (Virginia) Public Schools' School Board last night announced the appointment of Dr. Francisco Duran to be Superintendent of Schools from June 1, 2020, to June 30, 2023. This appointment affects all 250,000 people in Arlington and many outside the county. Our local newspapers convey the story: https://www.arlnow.com/2020/05/07/nationwide-search-finds-new-aps-superintendent-in-fairfax-county/ https://www.insidenova.com/news/arlington/arlington-turns-to-fairfax-for-new-superintendent-of-schools/article_571d25d6-911c-11ea-b161-27d370a587b0.html and soon, The Washington Post. To create an article about Dr. Duran, I copied his biography from the official Fairfax Schools web page https://www.fcps.edu/staff/francisco-duran
I think his selection merits inclusion in Wikipedia as a person who will hold great influence over a large population. Jay.wind ( talk) 17:09, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
You may want to pay attention to this, we're getting the old trope of "no women editors so no women's issues are written about" ... which always strikes me as trying to shove women editors off into only a few "legitimate" subjects for them to edit. -- Ealdgyth ( talk) 01:08, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
I would appreciate it if you did not try to intimidate me with false accusations or peculiar interpretations of scope of a topic ban. As the article clearly states: "The idea originated as anticommunist propaganda at the time of the Polish–Soviet War (1919–1920) and continued through the interwar period. The term itself appeared in the post-World War period." And indeed my edit concerned events of 1968.
Rather than trying to be confrontational on the talk page or leaving intimidating messages on my talk, you could instead address the issue at hand; please stop engaging in original research on talk as an excuse to remove a source per WP:IJUSTDONTLIKEIT and if you really think that an academic book is "too old" because it's from 1991, ask for outside input at WP:RSN. That is how you're suppose resolve such a disagreement and you've been around long enough to know that. Volunteer Marek 06:13, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
@ El C, Guerillero, and Galobtter: I'm pinging you as the three uninvolved admins who closed the latest AE related to Poland and World War II. Volunteer Marek was topic-banned during WP:APL from "the history of Poland during World War II, including the Holocaust in Poland". He is editing Żydokomuna, which is about the antisemitic canard/conspiracy theory of Jewish Bolshevism in Poland. His edits to the article; and to the talk page. He says this is not covered by his topic ban. My comments to him: [2] [3] His response is above.
Would you be willing to make a determination about this without a trip to AE? I'm not asking for a sanction, just a decision about whether the article falls within the topic ban.
Żydokomuna/Jewish Bolshevism is the idea that communism was specifically Jewish or that Jews were particularly invested in communism. It's one of the founding myths of the Holocaust and World War II. Hitler stated in 1939 that another world war would mean "not the Bolshevization of earth, and thus a Jewish victory, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe". According to the historian Paul Hanebrink (A Specter Haunting Europe, Harvard University Press, p. 4:
Over the course of the twentieth century, the belief that Communism was created by a Jewish conspiracy and that Jews were therefore to blame for the crimes committed by Communist regimes became a core element of counterrevolutionary, antidemocratic, and racist ideologies in many different countries. ... During the decades between the two world wars, the idea of Judeo-Bolshevism inspired a variety of countries to enact policies that discriminated against Jews or placed them under surveillance. When Nazi Germany went to war with the Soviet Union in 1941, its leaders told themselves (and the men they commanded) that the Judeo-Bolshevik threat required them to wage war on the Eastern Front with relentless and barbarous cruelty. They also made the idea of Judeo-Bolshevism a crucial element in the origins of the Holocaust. Today, nationalist extremists and far-right movements across Europe embrace this history and make its memory central to their own political identity.
It seems self-evident to me that this falls within "the history of Poland during World War II, including the Holocaust in Poland", even without "broadly construed". SarahSV (talk) 00:34, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
I would be inclined to view this as a violation of Volunteer Marek's topic ban. The dispute is about Schatz, who is mentioned in the lead in connection with WWII. While I appreciate the effort Volunteer Marek has undertaken not to mention WWII in the course of the discussion, these mental gymnastics notwithstanding, what the article says (Schatz writing about WWII) in relation to what the dispute is about (Schatz' credentials), at the very least skirts the 'broadly construed' line. I also would caution Volunteer Marek against overly aggressive section headers: Using intimidation to gain an upper hand in a content dispute is a bit much. As is the protest that Sarah should have pinged him in a discussion they themselves started.
El_C
19:11, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
El C, what's happening in this section is the topic area in miniature. Very little of the above is true, but it's stated with a straight face, including "I am having trouble understanding why you would want to play down the negative nature of this stereotype". (I'm pinging Jpgordon, who elsewhere discussed recently why "stereotype" is weaker than "canard".) It isn't only VM; this is the situation at those articles in general, so I've decided to withdraw from editing them. I got briefly involved in response to Jan Grabowski's article in Gazeta Wyborcza complaining about the Polish Holocaust articles, but it's hopeless. It requires help from the whole community, including admins, functionaries and ArbCom. It isn't something that one editor or even a few can fix.
One thing that needs to be established is that the Antisemitism in Poland topic bans will be upheld, which is why I opened this. If that can't be resolved here, I can open an AE. But the claim that the canard of Jewish Bolshevism/Żydokomuna isn't inherently tied to the Holocaust is so outlandish that I want to persist in establishing it. I'm pinging Worm That Turned. Not expecting you to comment, but please observe what continues here, even after the case. SarahSV (talk) 23:40, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
[4].
Could someone point me to the evidence that Icewhiz threatened anyone's family or contacted anyone's employer? I realize there may not be much or any onwiki evidence, but could someone link to whatever discussion took place about it? SarahSV (talk) 19:51, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
Please tell me and the readers what the abbreviation stands for! dif — Preceding unsigned comment added by Raquel Baranow ( talk • contribs)
I don't understand why did you say my additions on The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion as "not an improvement" while I only rephrased from the same section that Hitler wrote in his own book about his view on "The Protocols." — MusenInvincible ( talk) 15:32, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
I notice that in this edit of yours you removed the first sentence that describes FGM as being practiced by several religions. Was that intentional? If yes, what's the reason (e.g. poor source)? VR talk 08:34, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for uploading File:Cover of Hypatia.jpeg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. -- B-bot ( talk) 17:29, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
The following is added as a remedy to the Antisemitism in Poland arbitration case: 7) 500/30 restriction: All IP editors, users with fewer than 500 edits, and users with less than 30 days' tenure are prohibited from editing articles related to the history of Jews and antisemitism in Poland during World War II (1933–45), including the Holocaust in Poland. This prohibition may be enforced preemptively by use of extended confirmed protection (ECP), or by other methods such as reverts, pending changes protection, and appropriate edit filters. Reverts made solely to enforce the 500/30 rule are not considered edit warring.
Passed 6 to 0 by motion at 19:57, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
For the arbitration committee, Moneytrees🌴 Talk🌲 Help out at CCI! 20:29, 30 May 2020 (UTC)