Hey buddy, started a new thread on 'External Links' on Seduction Community talk page - would love to know your thoughts!
SecondSight: i see you have previously taken up the task of lobbying for a Seduction Community page. I have just added it in the requests for undeletion page. any assistance/thoughts/comments/advice greatly appreciated. Streamless 16:38, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
Hey dude - just want to say, appreciate your efforts in getting this all sorted :-) WoodenBuddha
It is biological fact that men have poorer social skills than women. So surely the men good at seduction are the men with women's brains. Men did not evolve to chat up women in pubs or think up witty chat up lines. They evolved to hunt and plan and have a strategic vision. It is a biological fact that men who have strategic brains and women have social brains. This is not some BS theory this is fact to do with the index finger ratio theory. This why there are more nerdy men than nerdy women. The geekiness is analytical skill that intelligent men are born with. It is why tend tend to dominate IT and engineering. It is a superior brain for strategic planning. Women are better at socialising than men, they are more socially assertive. So is this entire seduction industry based on a deliberate con. The idea that it prooves you are man to better at chatting people up is the total opposite of reality. The better you are at chatting people up with your social tricks, the better you are at having a female brain. I am certain men with womens brains are better at social manipulation and chatting people up and bullying. Simply as they have the social skills to do such. Yet those very men with the superior male strategic brain will be biologically poorer at the social side.
After a little mistake, I have moved your article from your userpage to the article page, keeping its history with it. I've left only the original "I am" edit on your userpage and in its history. The deletion log makes this look worse that it is: I deleted it one time too many! Anyway, it's done now. - Splash talk 00:01, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Neil's success and entire skillset at pickup is simply Mystery Method and he would be the first to admit that... The Game doesn't exist seperately from MM. The tactical pickup portions ARE all MM. - Mooff
You are absolutely correct on all of these points, Mooff. Unfortunately, many people on wikipedia are ignorant of the seduction community and its history, so they will see your links to Mystery Method stuff as an attempt to spam. This may be unfair and unreasonable, but my point is that from a pragmatic standpoint, I think it's best to wait before talking about anything that could be construed as spamming. I don't want to give people an excuse to attempt to delete the current seduction community article, because that's what happened to the old version of the article, and I only just got the article up. Eventually, I will write up a section on the gurus in the seduction community, which will have to prominently include the Mystery Method, and I will attempt to do this in a way that makes it clear that mentioning the gurus is an important aspect of the history of the seduction community, and not just an attempt to spam. -- SecondSight 07:04, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
"The Game doesn't exist separately from MM" ?!!! And you agree with him, SecondSight? Wow, where did you get this idea? Can we see a reference or two? What about BB, Juggler or Pickup101? There are many more examples and references completely separate from MM! DutchSeduction 09:22, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
Keep up the good work. You'll see a lot of controversy coming from two sources:
1. Competition / commercialism which makes these pages a hot spam target for the internet marketeers and their boy fans. See the change history on DeAngelo page, which various meatpuppets have been sanitizing for example.
2. Objections to the material itself. Sex and seduction are controversial subjects with various points of view. This situation leads to argument and conflict. As a result it becomes difficult to maintain NPOV. Watch for the spammers and meatpuppets.
In any case, good job. Let's see if we can keep neutral information available on this subject without too many commercial slants in it! ;^) DutchSeduction
Thanks, DutchSeduction. And I am no stranger to controversy over the community, from both outside and inside. -- SecondSight 22:33, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
I appreciate your efforts to improve the information and to make it as objective as possible. However, you seem to be involved in efforts to whitewash David Deangelo. Like I've said many times, if you can find more objective -- and non-commercial criticial references -- for David Deangelo PLEASE ADD THEM. The reason the P&C reference requires free registration was to prevent spam attacks, which the site has experienced, primarily from Nightlife/Shark, but also from DeAngelo. DutchSeduction 07:46, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
What's the story with Formhandle? What is he angry about? I noticed someone has added an external link to FS.com's own "Seduction Wiki". Does he see Wikipedia as competition, or a way to attract more traffic? It's not clear to me what his objection really is. Do you know? DutchSeduction 00:28, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
There is some history with Formhandle+mASF and the Seduction Community article: when the article was marked for deletion, there was an announcement made on mASF to see if people would be interested in contributing and saving the article. I think Formhandle was negative about WP at that time, and it appears as if he still is. I was surprised to see that he now has his own seduction wiki on his site. I personally don't have any political issue with him at all, and can't understand what is making him angry. DutchSeduction 10:06, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Formhandle was angry about a comment made next to one of my edits where I suggested advertisers were asked to pay $30,000 for an ad. I can imagine why he wouldn't want people to publicize information about his ad rates, although I didn't realize it at the time. The comment is not part of any article, and hopefully my reply to him will calm him down. DutchSeduction 10:20, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
I spotted your message on user:Ryan Delaney's user talk page regarding this article. Having looked at the history I've semi-protected the article. For future reference the place to request protection or unprotection of a page is at WP:RFPP. Thryduulf 15:10, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Unfortunately this vandal (whoever he is) has been hitting the Mystery Method article as well. In my opinion it's not frequent enough to justify protecting either of these articles though. I'm watchlisting them both.
If he comes back, please leave {{ test}} messages on the vandal's userpage. More information on how to do this is at WP:RCP, I think.
Thanks. -- Ryan Delaney talk 15:24, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
First of all...to lay my bias on the table, I am a fan of the Stylelife Academy. It has worked for me, and many of my friends, and so of course I am a huge supporter. That said, I understand Wikipedia isn't a place to spout your own PERSONAL opinions but rather pages should convey a neutral point of view.
That's why the recent edits on Neil Strauss's page under the Stylelife section have begun to alarm me. I have voiced my concern on the talk page over there...but I am unsure what to do next. It seems to me like this one guys opinion is being sourced to much (it is on their twice. Even one sentence that references a single bloggers opinion seems excessive, but two just seems outright wrong).
I'm not suggesting that his page should read like an advertisement, but I just want to make sure the scales don't tip to far the OTHER way either and I am unsure how to proceed. You seem to really know your stuff and have helped clean up a lot of seduction articles around here on Wikipedia, so I was hoping to turn your eye to this issue and see if you can lend a helping hand. GeorgeJorgel ( talk) 05:46, 9 May 2008 (UTC) GeorgeJorgel
Just wanted to say thank you very much for cleaning that whole thing up. I knew the citing of blogs seemed strange...glad I turned to someone wiser in the ways of Wikipedia than I. Also, thanks for all your work on Community articles in general.
GeorgeJorgel (
talk) 03:10, 11 May 2008 (UTC) GeorgeJorgel
Thank you for your concern about the page in question. However these are published material made by Ross Jeffries that are sold and used by Speed Seduction users, and is relevant toward understanding Ross Jeffries and his materials toward the understanding that it is not a cult. Thus cannot be considerated as advertising only as an opinion due to the lack of information concerning pricing, or means of obtaining such material. Please do stop vandalising my opinion pieces and deleting my writings, as it is only supporting the other parties negative views unjustly. This is your first vandalism warning. -- Masssiveego 03:29, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Product listings for the purposes of discussion their existance, and what effect they have is not about having a soapbox, or advertising. It is the product by product reflect the facts in question that must be brought up as evidence that each product in question only reflect a non religious, dating only means for each product in question. As to refute the claim by the other person that Speed Seduction is a cult. As so the next reader will not be misled by the claims of the former, that Speed seduction is a cult, for determining what is factual and encyclopedic in nature for entry in to the main article itself. The standards above only apply to the main article for editing. Everything listed in the talk page is more for expressing question, comments or opinions for discussion as to determine what should be edited into the article, or side notes about the article.
The article itself is about Ross Jeffries, and as you will note about I give an opinion of what I think is Ross Jeffries products are. The later gave the opinion of against that they would not buy Ross Jeffries products. I give the opinion of for that I probably would buy Ross Jeffries products. The two opinions must balance correctly with facts being presented by both sides until we come to an agreement as to what facts should or should not be added to the article in question. I obvious disagree about adding the above to the article and am refuting the formers arguements by proveing product by product what each product is with a brief description, and obviously noting highlighting the no religious connections.
Would you like to enter mediation to determine a coarse of action for the talk page to better clarify this position? -- Masssiveego 05:09, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
A request for mediation has been filed with the Mediation Committee that lists you as a party. The Mediation Committee requires that all parties listed in a mediation must be notified of the mediation. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Talk:Ross Jeffries, and indicate whether you agree or refuse to mediate. If you are unfamiliar with mediation, please refer to Wikipedia:Mediation. There are only seven days for everyone to agree, so please check as soon as possible.
Well, I think that all three are neologisms, regardless of the amount of content on them. I hope you don't take offense to this but I nominated them all for AFD already. However if you can persuade AFD that the page should be kept, I'll not object. Also, if any of the pages do get deleted, I'll be happy to use my administrator power to copy the article content out of the deletion history so you can copy it elsewhere. Cheers -- Ryan Delaney talk 00:52, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm taking a look at the Wiktionary rules on neologisms. Maybe we could put these definitions over there. -- Ryan Delaney talk 01:05, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi SecondSight.
We'd like to thank you for your help with setting up and defending the seduction community on Wikipedia.org. Please contact me at dstone@mit.edu from your stanford address and we'll talk further. Look forward to it.
STONEDMIT 23:07, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
SecondSight, I posted the following to the RSD talk pages but would appreciate your feedback since any alteration to the RSD page results in instant edit wars these days. The RSD article has become more of a focus for commercial ends than an information source serving the community. And frankly, that kinda sucks.
In general I like to assume good faith but this is just too obvious. It seems that the Real Social Dynamics people have figured out that it doesn't work to blatantly skew articles and that they have to register and act like editors (gasp) if they want to get anything done. Check out this diff: [1]. I don't know if you've been following these articles but before this sudden string of newly registered users stared editing seduction community articles, the Real Social Dynamics article was repeatedly replaced with an advertizing copy bio of the company, and other bogus criticisms of Mystery Method were added by anons.
I think these users should be dealt with fairly but there is no reason to suppose that their views should apply to "community consensus". User:Keepitneutral, for example, has never edited outside of Real Social Dynamics and Mystery Method; that he is so impassioned about neutrality in just these two articles, well, smells. It appears that they figured out that being blatant doesn't work and that people are actually watching these articles, so they have to try to scare us off. I don't see much point in compromising and discussing article content because any time spent with criticisms of RSD removed or links to the Mystery Method website delinked is possibly thousands of Google impressions that aren't giving readers the information they need. -- Ryan Delaney talk 22:07, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Some time ago, you and a few other users placed a mediation request for Talk:Ross Jeffries. Some time ago, I offered to mediate in the case. Anyways, I wasn't sure if you hadn't noticed my offer, or if you were still deciding whether to accept or reject me. In any case, watchlisting the page might help expedite matters. Please don't feel rushed to make a decision. Thanks! : ) Armedblowfish ( talk| mail| contribs) 23:46, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
It looks like this article has now been deleted, and since it is a neologism, that is probably the best fate for this article. -- Ryan Delaney talk 16:30, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
I really appreciate your informed, conscientious (and largely Sisyphean) efforts to keep these seduction community articles lucid and accurate. It's much harder than it looks. Keep up the good work! AlisonPlunderland 01:33, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Being a nice guy (or hopefully not being a nice guy - your article now makes me uncertain), I placed some comments at Talk:Nice_guy that you may want to look at. -- Jreferee 20:16, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
-- GeeJo (t)⁄ (c) • 21:08, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
I just find the stuff you do offensive, You seem to have anti victim of bullying agenda. You write offensive drivel suggesting that shy quiet men are dangerous usingt spurius rubbish. You wrote a load of pro bad pro bully stuff. You claim you are 20. I cannot believe that. You seem to fancy abisve vuiolent men. The stuff you write is just offensive chepa trash. It is not a high form of literature. or of any academic merit. Every article you wrote is supportive of abusive men. If you stop this Who are you really. Iyouyou —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iyouyou ( talk • contribs) 22:02, 27 November 2006
http://www.geocities.com/xaacacacacacacacac/Abbc.htm Argument for "The seduction community cartel" to be chucked of wikipedia —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iyouyou ( talk • contribs) 22:43, 27 November 2006
After the debacle of a "seduction cartel" it made me feel perhaps a project page could be a handy way for the "cartel" (and any other new members to strengthen the "cartel"! lol) to organise themselves and assist each other in improving as a whole the related articles here on wikipedia. Mathmo Talk 07:12, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
SecondSight, given your interest in both WP:V and the seduction community, I think you might be able to contribute some insight to this AfD. Cheers!-- Kchase T 23:23, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for acknowledging in Talk:Misandry my paltry contributions to the Misandry draft. It was especially decent of you, considering the backlash it could have produced. If at some point you feel a need to mention that edgarde has had no hand in the content of the article, please go ahead — I'm hoping my reputation in Talk:Misandry won't be held against your work.
And thanks again for your work on the draft. / edgarde 03:06, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Well, someone forgot to inform you or you didn't do your homework before you came into the discussion. AFD is explicitly not a vote. It is a discussion to help establish consensus. From what I saw from sources, one links to amazon.com (which is a violation of the external links policy), one to a blog or personal page or something, which is also against the policy, and one which seemed to have nothing to do with the article. Blogs don't meet WP:RS or WP:V. Corporations must have multiple non-trivial independent sources, and the one in the Times looked trivial at best. Basically, the arguments for deletion outweighed those against deletion. - Royalguard11( Talk· Desk· Review Me!) 00:35, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Because the article was deleted for sourcing issues, I have restored the article after you and others have now found more sources that were not talked about or on the article during the AFD. I hope this has settled the issue. Please incorporate the newfound sources into the article so that it will pass WP:V. Have a good day. - Royalguard11( Talk· Desk· Review Me!) 22:18, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Surprised to see you vote that way, mind explaining why? Consider for a moment if both are deleted, then what you said isn't good grounds for deletion. Mathmo Talk 07:39, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
In light of the recent nomination of Template:Notable Members of The Seduction Community, I've began work on a new, broader template in my namespace ( here). The intention is that it is placed at the bottom of the page. — Sasuke Sarutobi 16:54, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Hey - can you set a real email address in your preferences? I'd love to drop you a line. WoodenBuddha
The David DeAngelo article is up for deletion. Your unbiased views are appreciated. -- Amit 02:57, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm hoping sometime this week to spinout Nathanson and Young from the Misandry article, where N&Y stuff is going tumorous. Would it bug you terribly if I included material from your Misandry draft? I'd certainly credit you on the Talk page.
I'm also hoping my not following through with the Harvard style footnoting didn't stop progress on the Misandry draft. / edgarde 14:26, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Hi Edgarde, you are welcome to use any parts of the misandry article I was working on. I haven't done any more work on it myself, because dealing with the editors on the misandry page because too frustrating (what's the point of doing a rewrite if other editors can see why it would be an improvement?). I might stop by and help with the N&Y article. -- SecondSight 00:24, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
This deed is done. Thanks for all your help. Time to sit back and watch the edit warring.
One mistake: I left in a lot of junk history from the user page sandbox. I hope this doesn't void the article. / edgarde 03:12, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Hi
SecondSight, just thought I'd let you know about a
complex vandalism report I recently wrote. I just came across
your rewrite of Misandry and I can see you've expereinced some of their nastier disruptive behavior. A report has been lodged with admins. Please drop me a line if you have any further trouble from this user. BTW they have been inactive for a few weeks andthey haven't been active on that page in a while and the editors at
Misandry are making some good progress, if you have anything to add to that page please do--
Cailil
talk 19:34, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
Hey there. I'm PolskanPUA. Nice to meet you.
Now I must say, I appreciate what your teamwork with Wooden Buddha and Dutch Seduction has done for the attempted Seduction Project here on wikipedia. However, I'd like to brush by you some ideas because of a little pattern I've noticed. This is stuff I've seen in your contributions.
Consider it a little constructive criticism.
Mentioning your age, Stanford education, and position as a Community member is valuable, but don't let it get to your head. You had a few edit fuckups in love-shyness, which you seem to identify with--A LOT The problem is, you have used products and read about self-help technique, and now that you have a label for something, like "involuntary celibacy" caused by "love-shyness" or "average-frustrated chumpness" or the newest "nice guy syndrome" you seem to want to learn more about it, but at the same time, you are putting yourself in that mold of "hey, these characteristics fit me". That emphasis on yourself and what you identify as, combined with the ability to model its definition, is what makes for bad editing.
For instance, the Love-shy article was going somewhere on the mental processes of love-shy men, saying ...they would believe everyone was as reluctant as them, refusing to believe women had crushes on them. You tied that in with AFC definition, changing it to the new term, "social anxiety". This is bad precedent. When some new pickup guru shows up, calls the whole thing "Zero Scoring Technique" some user will decide that the latest buzzword for "unconscious lack of Game Products" is suitable, so the definition of love-shyness will be open to change.
I hope that part's clear; love-shyness was a word from the book and the study, which you transposed ideas of social anxiety onto. In reality, I think the emphasis on love-shy people was self-worth. They studied people who were poor, socially-inept, and weak physically. Therefore, their major problem was becoming independent, confident men in society and in social situations. Social anxiety is a slightly different concept.
Don't do it. You settled lots of debates with your own opinions, in favor of the Community. You mention, in a debate over Strauss's rumored homosexuality, that he you met him and didn't think he was gay. You also mention that cocky and funny is a good technique in your opinion, and you contend that criticisms against Neil as a traitor are not held by the Community from what you've seen.
In truth, some mention of the rumor could be placed, worded something like Strauss is noted for a metropolitan fashion sense, a lispy voice, and other effeminate characteristics stereotyped with homosexuals. You can't say that anyone looking at his picture would know that. It just isn't encyclopedic. Your meeting with him was very valuable to you, but unless something you saw could be shared with the rest of Wikipedia, its hard to fight or dispel rumors. That's why I think a little statement should be put there, because his PUA image is not immediately congruent with his personality.
C&F is a great technique for beginners? This is the last thing that should be put on Wikipedia. The whole concept of beginner implies a cult-like society with initiation and entrance exams and worse still, ideals of Game. I would avoid the terms beginner and advanced when explaining seduction, just because the heirarchy is not a good idea, and demonstrates, at least to the mainstream, just how pathetic a Community where people imitate others is..
Finally, Neil may or may not have been viewed as a traitor. Some people probably did think so, and some debate will loom about that. I'm sure your personal experience in the Community hasn't revealed much of that, but it is def worthy of discussion. I think that is a great topic for discussion, and its fun to think about. I'm going to put a little inclusion about it in The Game article.
I've seen the comments you made to Quintin3265. That was not right. You have to understand the school of thought he is coming from. He is skeptical, but, shouldn't everyone be? He was very honest in clarifying that pickup is about sexual success with women. You played with MysteryMethod too and erased his criticisms of fraud and social robot theory, which are crucial to understanding seduction companies. You even went far enough as to say, in your own words, Jeffries' position as a fraud is irrelevant to a talk page. What you're doing is censoring opposition and healthy discussion of ideas.
I actually have a lot of questions for you. I respect all that you have done here, especially with RSD vandalism. Just leave me a msg.
Sincerely,
-- SecondSight ( talk) 05:43, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Regarding my criticisms, I can only tell you that I have seen clear bias here on wikipedia before and when I saw your talk page and your special interest in Seduction, I wanted to make sure I was looking at a competent, well-rounded individual. One major concern of mine is the phenomenon of "Internet flaming". It's when someone goes on a blog or Wikipedia and posts edit after edit aimlessly, working to exercise as much of their influence as possible. When you stated that you "single-handedly wrote or re-vamped entire articles on the Seduction Community," and mentioned your status as an Ivy League student, a big red flag went up in my mind. After reading into your contributions, I found that you certainly are not guilty of any negative traits, and I won't pursue any more criticism or "inflammatory characterizations."
I still would like to know one thing. You stated several times that you are a member of the Community and that you have met Style. Let me know, what do you do in the Community? Is it like that movie School for Scoundrels? Are you in a Lair? Since you're in college, is there a big college following? Just let me know, because I honestly find it intriguing.
Sincerely,
--
PolskanPUA (
talk) 12:25, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Hey, I see that some – individuals have nominated the cockblock article for deletion. Do you have any sources that would make helpful additions to this article? Thanks, Aldrich Hanssen ( talk) 00:36, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
A bunch of "fact" templates were added to neg (seduction). It seems like I've seen all of those concepts before in various literature but I've been having trouble tracking them down. Geez, isn't a lot of that stuff just common sense whose veracity should be self-evident? I don't see what the big deal is, but evidently people are really uptight about seduction community-related stuff. They give a lot more tolerance to the various other subcultures on Wikipedia, e.g. the various sci-fi communities creating articles for all the nuances of their fictional universes. I think they have just been more successful at organizing resistance to AfDs. After all, they have a freakin' lot of participants. Well, I guess we're on our way there as well. Aldrich Hanssen ( talk) 20:26, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
I see what you're saying about the sources and all, but it still seems like it's somewhat arbitrary what they will consider to be "enough" reliable sources. All in all, the mass nominations have kinda taken the wind out of my sails; I was hoping to create a slew of articles on seduction-related subjects but it seems not worth the effort if it can all be destroyed via deletion at the whim of whoever shows up to AfD. I think there is a systemic bias going on here, and the system has created the means by which people can forcibly influence, based on their own personal opinions, what Wikipedia covers and what it doesn't. If we got rid of the notability requirement and just allowed all verifiable content to stay here, then it would create a much more objective system and we wouldn't have all these problems. Having said that, I'm well-aware of the unlikelihood of that happening and am basically waving the white flag at this point. Aldrich Hanssen ( talk) 01:34, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps the source of the systemic bias is that our opponents here are mostly either chicks (who have a tendency to say "Those techniques would never work on me!" when in fact they probably would) and guys who have not tried these techniques and realized that they work; if they had, they would be out banging chicks rather than trying to delete Wikipedia articles. Aldrich Hanssen ( talk) 17:57, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
The Editor's Barnstar | ||
Thank you for your quick and skillful work on those two articles I put up for AfD. I really appreciate your positive attitude and willingness to work with the process without being antagonistic. Quality editing! Rob Banzai ( talk) 15:22, 9 August 2008 (UTC) |
"Great minds think alike". ;) I added a new section to Alison's talk page only to find after it had been saved you had just written yourself almost exactly the same! lol, a funny coincidence indeed. :) Mathmo Talk 10:38, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
"Many men in the seduction community perceive a disparity between women's stated preferences and behaviors". I worry that this is sailing too close to thinking "women say no when they mean yes", as a statement. I see what you mean about men being like it too though, but I would say that people are like that maybe due to manners, social conventions or a lack of assertiveness to answer back if they don't like something. It's easy for all of us to live like robots, in that we find it hard to say no to anything, so do what everyone else wants. Well that's my thought of the week.:) I think most women would prefer compliments to 'neg-ing'. Also, not making social blunders like 'nice hair- is it real?' or whatever would make a man seem to have better social skills and so to be more eligible.
As for the articles, on your userpage it says that as long as there's one or two sources an article can be made- it can but I think it needs to be more notable than just a handful of mentions in the press really to survive an AfD. At the very least, the articles should be made WP:NPOV, there's plenty of criticism to add. Wikiproject seduction says it has as one of its aims to 'make more articles' about the subject. This isn't necessarily always a good thing as we don't always need more articles, but better coverage in existing articles. If there's a proliferation of articles on non-notable subjects, I don't think editors who aren't in the seduction community will be impressed.
As to Hanssen, I have my own ideas but don't like to say. Maybe I'll just say I suspect he's a young man who's not all that experienced with women. Sticky Parkin 12:19, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for your message SecondSight.
What does it take to get a seduction company page up on Wikipedia? I had a look at the following guidelines:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Companies,_corporations_and_economic_information and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Retailing/Company_page_structure
Are those guidelines enough for a seduction company to get a page up on Wikipedia? Camera123456 ( talk) 20:57, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
On another note, I saw your message on the Savoy page. Could you help me with rewriting the page?
Thanks in advance. Camera123456 ( talk) 21:19, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
Hi - I just wanted to let you I went to replace some of the language on the Savoy page. I had originally cut and pasted some of the material from the Love Systems website, but I think it looks better now. I'm not done and will keep working on it, but please let me know any more suggestions for establishing what you'd consider an npov. I am very grateful for your help! Camera123456 ( talk) 00:26, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Hi - Some administrator is trying to delete the "Nick Savoy" page for personal reasons. The page is going through deletion review right now, and I can use the help to get it back up. Could you show some support for it at this URL http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Savoy,_Nick ?
Your input is much appreciated SecondSight. Thanks in advance. Camera123456 ( talk) 18:47, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
Hi SecondSight - I was wondering if you could help me out on this David X issue. Someone keeps adding this back to the list of notable members (likely David X himself or a friend of his). It has gone on long enough. The article itself doesn't meet the quality bar either. Thanks for any help you can provide on this matter Sedcom ( talk) 14:1, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
Hi SecondSight,
It seems like all the community pages are under attack. Love Systems is another one and has abruptly been deleted. The admin, User:Spartaz, wants someone else to get the page up by putting it through DRV. Could you do that? Thanks. Coaster7 ( talk) 20:03, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
Hey SecondSight, I hope all is well. I'm planning to keep improving the seduction community articles and I've re-done the Love_Systems page already. I just completely rewrote the Nick Savoy page and put it back on DRV: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2009_January_6#User:Coaster7.2FNick_Savoy
Could you have a look at it and endorse the recreation? Thanks in advance. Coaster7 ( talk) 22:55, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
Hey man, seem to remember you were involved in the Community pages... Anyway, found one of Adam Lyons' business partners going through and methodically spamming and vandalizing pages:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DRosin#COI - just a heads up! WoodenBuddha ( talk) 03:20, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
Hallo, could you weigh in on the Jeremy Soul AfD? Cheers WoodenBuddha ( talk) 04:35, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is Average frustrated chump. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also Wikipedia:Notability and " What Wikipedia is not").
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A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Seduction community is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
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Hey buddy, started a new thread on 'External Links' on Seduction Community talk page - would love to know your thoughts!
SecondSight: i see you have previously taken up the task of lobbying for a Seduction Community page. I have just added it in the requests for undeletion page. any assistance/thoughts/comments/advice greatly appreciated. Streamless 16:38, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
Hey dude - just want to say, appreciate your efforts in getting this all sorted :-) WoodenBuddha
It is biological fact that men have poorer social skills than women. So surely the men good at seduction are the men with women's brains. Men did not evolve to chat up women in pubs or think up witty chat up lines. They evolved to hunt and plan and have a strategic vision. It is a biological fact that men who have strategic brains and women have social brains. This is not some BS theory this is fact to do with the index finger ratio theory. This why there are more nerdy men than nerdy women. The geekiness is analytical skill that intelligent men are born with. It is why tend tend to dominate IT and engineering. It is a superior brain for strategic planning. Women are better at socialising than men, they are more socially assertive. So is this entire seduction industry based on a deliberate con. The idea that it prooves you are man to better at chatting people up is the total opposite of reality. The better you are at chatting people up with your social tricks, the better you are at having a female brain. I am certain men with womens brains are better at social manipulation and chatting people up and bullying. Simply as they have the social skills to do such. Yet those very men with the superior male strategic brain will be biologically poorer at the social side.
After a little mistake, I have moved your article from your userpage to the article page, keeping its history with it. I've left only the original "I am" edit on your userpage and in its history. The deletion log makes this look worse that it is: I deleted it one time too many! Anyway, it's done now. - Splash talk 00:01, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Neil's success and entire skillset at pickup is simply Mystery Method and he would be the first to admit that... The Game doesn't exist seperately from MM. The tactical pickup portions ARE all MM. - Mooff
You are absolutely correct on all of these points, Mooff. Unfortunately, many people on wikipedia are ignorant of the seduction community and its history, so they will see your links to Mystery Method stuff as an attempt to spam. This may be unfair and unreasonable, but my point is that from a pragmatic standpoint, I think it's best to wait before talking about anything that could be construed as spamming. I don't want to give people an excuse to attempt to delete the current seduction community article, because that's what happened to the old version of the article, and I only just got the article up. Eventually, I will write up a section on the gurus in the seduction community, which will have to prominently include the Mystery Method, and I will attempt to do this in a way that makes it clear that mentioning the gurus is an important aspect of the history of the seduction community, and not just an attempt to spam. -- SecondSight 07:04, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
"The Game doesn't exist separately from MM" ?!!! And you agree with him, SecondSight? Wow, where did you get this idea? Can we see a reference or two? What about BB, Juggler or Pickup101? There are many more examples and references completely separate from MM! DutchSeduction 09:22, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
Keep up the good work. You'll see a lot of controversy coming from two sources:
1. Competition / commercialism which makes these pages a hot spam target for the internet marketeers and their boy fans. See the change history on DeAngelo page, which various meatpuppets have been sanitizing for example.
2. Objections to the material itself. Sex and seduction are controversial subjects with various points of view. This situation leads to argument and conflict. As a result it becomes difficult to maintain NPOV. Watch for the spammers and meatpuppets.
In any case, good job. Let's see if we can keep neutral information available on this subject without too many commercial slants in it! ;^) DutchSeduction
Thanks, DutchSeduction. And I am no stranger to controversy over the community, from both outside and inside. -- SecondSight 22:33, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
I appreciate your efforts to improve the information and to make it as objective as possible. However, you seem to be involved in efforts to whitewash David Deangelo. Like I've said many times, if you can find more objective -- and non-commercial criticial references -- for David Deangelo PLEASE ADD THEM. The reason the P&C reference requires free registration was to prevent spam attacks, which the site has experienced, primarily from Nightlife/Shark, but also from DeAngelo. DutchSeduction 07:46, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
What's the story with Formhandle? What is he angry about? I noticed someone has added an external link to FS.com's own "Seduction Wiki". Does he see Wikipedia as competition, or a way to attract more traffic? It's not clear to me what his objection really is. Do you know? DutchSeduction 00:28, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
There is some history with Formhandle+mASF and the Seduction Community article: when the article was marked for deletion, there was an announcement made on mASF to see if people would be interested in contributing and saving the article. I think Formhandle was negative about WP at that time, and it appears as if he still is. I was surprised to see that he now has his own seduction wiki on his site. I personally don't have any political issue with him at all, and can't understand what is making him angry. DutchSeduction 10:06, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Formhandle was angry about a comment made next to one of my edits where I suggested advertisers were asked to pay $30,000 for an ad. I can imagine why he wouldn't want people to publicize information about his ad rates, although I didn't realize it at the time. The comment is not part of any article, and hopefully my reply to him will calm him down. DutchSeduction 10:20, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
I spotted your message on user:Ryan Delaney's user talk page regarding this article. Having looked at the history I've semi-protected the article. For future reference the place to request protection or unprotection of a page is at WP:RFPP. Thryduulf 15:10, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Unfortunately this vandal (whoever he is) has been hitting the Mystery Method article as well. In my opinion it's not frequent enough to justify protecting either of these articles though. I'm watchlisting them both.
If he comes back, please leave {{ test}} messages on the vandal's userpage. More information on how to do this is at WP:RCP, I think.
Thanks. -- Ryan Delaney talk 15:24, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
First of all...to lay my bias on the table, I am a fan of the Stylelife Academy. It has worked for me, and many of my friends, and so of course I am a huge supporter. That said, I understand Wikipedia isn't a place to spout your own PERSONAL opinions but rather pages should convey a neutral point of view.
That's why the recent edits on Neil Strauss's page under the Stylelife section have begun to alarm me. I have voiced my concern on the talk page over there...but I am unsure what to do next. It seems to me like this one guys opinion is being sourced to much (it is on their twice. Even one sentence that references a single bloggers opinion seems excessive, but two just seems outright wrong).
I'm not suggesting that his page should read like an advertisement, but I just want to make sure the scales don't tip to far the OTHER way either and I am unsure how to proceed. You seem to really know your stuff and have helped clean up a lot of seduction articles around here on Wikipedia, so I was hoping to turn your eye to this issue and see if you can lend a helping hand. GeorgeJorgel ( talk) 05:46, 9 May 2008 (UTC) GeorgeJorgel
Just wanted to say thank you very much for cleaning that whole thing up. I knew the citing of blogs seemed strange...glad I turned to someone wiser in the ways of Wikipedia than I. Also, thanks for all your work on Community articles in general.
GeorgeJorgel (
talk) 03:10, 11 May 2008 (UTC) GeorgeJorgel
Thank you for your concern about the page in question. However these are published material made by Ross Jeffries that are sold and used by Speed Seduction users, and is relevant toward understanding Ross Jeffries and his materials toward the understanding that it is not a cult. Thus cannot be considerated as advertising only as an opinion due to the lack of information concerning pricing, or means of obtaining such material. Please do stop vandalising my opinion pieces and deleting my writings, as it is only supporting the other parties negative views unjustly. This is your first vandalism warning. -- Masssiveego 03:29, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Product listings for the purposes of discussion their existance, and what effect they have is not about having a soapbox, or advertising. It is the product by product reflect the facts in question that must be brought up as evidence that each product in question only reflect a non religious, dating only means for each product in question. As to refute the claim by the other person that Speed Seduction is a cult. As so the next reader will not be misled by the claims of the former, that Speed seduction is a cult, for determining what is factual and encyclopedic in nature for entry in to the main article itself. The standards above only apply to the main article for editing. Everything listed in the talk page is more for expressing question, comments or opinions for discussion as to determine what should be edited into the article, or side notes about the article.
The article itself is about Ross Jeffries, and as you will note about I give an opinion of what I think is Ross Jeffries products are. The later gave the opinion of against that they would not buy Ross Jeffries products. I give the opinion of for that I probably would buy Ross Jeffries products. The two opinions must balance correctly with facts being presented by both sides until we come to an agreement as to what facts should or should not be added to the article in question. I obvious disagree about adding the above to the article and am refuting the formers arguements by proveing product by product what each product is with a brief description, and obviously noting highlighting the no religious connections.
Would you like to enter mediation to determine a coarse of action for the talk page to better clarify this position? -- Masssiveego 05:09, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
A request for mediation has been filed with the Mediation Committee that lists you as a party. The Mediation Committee requires that all parties listed in a mediation must be notified of the mediation. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Talk:Ross Jeffries, and indicate whether you agree or refuse to mediate. If you are unfamiliar with mediation, please refer to Wikipedia:Mediation. There are only seven days for everyone to agree, so please check as soon as possible.
Well, I think that all three are neologisms, regardless of the amount of content on them. I hope you don't take offense to this but I nominated them all for AFD already. However if you can persuade AFD that the page should be kept, I'll not object. Also, if any of the pages do get deleted, I'll be happy to use my administrator power to copy the article content out of the deletion history so you can copy it elsewhere. Cheers -- Ryan Delaney talk 00:52, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm taking a look at the Wiktionary rules on neologisms. Maybe we could put these definitions over there. -- Ryan Delaney talk 01:05, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi SecondSight.
We'd like to thank you for your help with setting up and defending the seduction community on Wikipedia.org. Please contact me at dstone@mit.edu from your stanford address and we'll talk further. Look forward to it.
STONEDMIT 23:07, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
SecondSight, I posted the following to the RSD talk pages but would appreciate your feedback since any alteration to the RSD page results in instant edit wars these days. The RSD article has become more of a focus for commercial ends than an information source serving the community. And frankly, that kinda sucks.
In general I like to assume good faith but this is just too obvious. It seems that the Real Social Dynamics people have figured out that it doesn't work to blatantly skew articles and that they have to register and act like editors (gasp) if they want to get anything done. Check out this diff: [1]. I don't know if you've been following these articles but before this sudden string of newly registered users stared editing seduction community articles, the Real Social Dynamics article was repeatedly replaced with an advertizing copy bio of the company, and other bogus criticisms of Mystery Method were added by anons.
I think these users should be dealt with fairly but there is no reason to suppose that their views should apply to "community consensus". User:Keepitneutral, for example, has never edited outside of Real Social Dynamics and Mystery Method; that he is so impassioned about neutrality in just these two articles, well, smells. It appears that they figured out that being blatant doesn't work and that people are actually watching these articles, so they have to try to scare us off. I don't see much point in compromising and discussing article content because any time spent with criticisms of RSD removed or links to the Mystery Method website delinked is possibly thousands of Google impressions that aren't giving readers the information they need. -- Ryan Delaney talk 22:07, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Some time ago, you and a few other users placed a mediation request for Talk:Ross Jeffries. Some time ago, I offered to mediate in the case. Anyways, I wasn't sure if you hadn't noticed my offer, or if you were still deciding whether to accept or reject me. In any case, watchlisting the page might help expedite matters. Please don't feel rushed to make a decision. Thanks! : ) Armedblowfish ( talk| mail| contribs) 23:46, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
It looks like this article has now been deleted, and since it is a neologism, that is probably the best fate for this article. -- Ryan Delaney talk 16:30, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
I really appreciate your informed, conscientious (and largely Sisyphean) efforts to keep these seduction community articles lucid and accurate. It's much harder than it looks. Keep up the good work! AlisonPlunderland 01:33, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Being a nice guy (or hopefully not being a nice guy - your article now makes me uncertain), I placed some comments at Talk:Nice_guy that you may want to look at. -- Jreferee 20:16, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
-- GeeJo (t)⁄ (c) • 21:08, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
I just find the stuff you do offensive, You seem to have anti victim of bullying agenda. You write offensive drivel suggesting that shy quiet men are dangerous usingt spurius rubbish. You wrote a load of pro bad pro bully stuff. You claim you are 20. I cannot believe that. You seem to fancy abisve vuiolent men. The stuff you write is just offensive chepa trash. It is not a high form of literature. or of any academic merit. Every article you wrote is supportive of abusive men. If you stop this Who are you really. Iyouyou —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iyouyou ( talk • contribs) 22:02, 27 November 2006
http://www.geocities.com/xaacacacacacacacac/Abbc.htm Argument for "The seduction community cartel" to be chucked of wikipedia —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iyouyou ( talk • contribs) 22:43, 27 November 2006
After the debacle of a "seduction cartel" it made me feel perhaps a project page could be a handy way for the "cartel" (and any other new members to strengthen the "cartel"! lol) to organise themselves and assist each other in improving as a whole the related articles here on wikipedia. Mathmo Talk 07:12, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
SecondSight, given your interest in both WP:V and the seduction community, I think you might be able to contribute some insight to this AfD. Cheers!-- Kchase T 23:23, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for acknowledging in Talk:Misandry my paltry contributions to the Misandry draft. It was especially decent of you, considering the backlash it could have produced. If at some point you feel a need to mention that edgarde has had no hand in the content of the article, please go ahead — I'm hoping my reputation in Talk:Misandry won't be held against your work.
And thanks again for your work on the draft. / edgarde 03:06, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Well, someone forgot to inform you or you didn't do your homework before you came into the discussion. AFD is explicitly not a vote. It is a discussion to help establish consensus. From what I saw from sources, one links to amazon.com (which is a violation of the external links policy), one to a blog or personal page or something, which is also against the policy, and one which seemed to have nothing to do with the article. Blogs don't meet WP:RS or WP:V. Corporations must have multiple non-trivial independent sources, and the one in the Times looked trivial at best. Basically, the arguments for deletion outweighed those against deletion. - Royalguard11( Talk· Desk· Review Me!) 00:35, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Because the article was deleted for sourcing issues, I have restored the article after you and others have now found more sources that were not talked about or on the article during the AFD. I hope this has settled the issue. Please incorporate the newfound sources into the article so that it will pass WP:V. Have a good day. - Royalguard11( Talk· Desk· Review Me!) 22:18, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Surprised to see you vote that way, mind explaining why? Consider for a moment if both are deleted, then what you said isn't good grounds for deletion. Mathmo Talk 07:39, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
In light of the recent nomination of Template:Notable Members of The Seduction Community, I've began work on a new, broader template in my namespace ( here). The intention is that it is placed at the bottom of the page. — Sasuke Sarutobi 16:54, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Hey - can you set a real email address in your preferences? I'd love to drop you a line. WoodenBuddha
The David DeAngelo article is up for deletion. Your unbiased views are appreciated. -- Amit 02:57, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm hoping sometime this week to spinout Nathanson and Young from the Misandry article, where N&Y stuff is going tumorous. Would it bug you terribly if I included material from your Misandry draft? I'd certainly credit you on the Talk page.
I'm also hoping my not following through with the Harvard style footnoting didn't stop progress on the Misandry draft. / edgarde 14:26, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Hi Edgarde, you are welcome to use any parts of the misandry article I was working on. I haven't done any more work on it myself, because dealing with the editors on the misandry page because too frustrating (what's the point of doing a rewrite if other editors can see why it would be an improvement?). I might stop by and help with the N&Y article. -- SecondSight 00:24, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
This deed is done. Thanks for all your help. Time to sit back and watch the edit warring.
One mistake: I left in a lot of junk history from the user page sandbox. I hope this doesn't void the article. / edgarde 03:12, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Hi
SecondSight, just thought I'd let you know about a
complex vandalism report I recently wrote. I just came across
your rewrite of Misandry and I can see you've expereinced some of their nastier disruptive behavior. A report has been lodged with admins. Please drop me a line if you have any further trouble from this user. BTW they have been inactive for a few weeks andthey haven't been active on that page in a while and the editors at
Misandry are making some good progress, if you have anything to add to that page please do--
Cailil
talk 19:34, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
Hey there. I'm PolskanPUA. Nice to meet you.
Now I must say, I appreciate what your teamwork with Wooden Buddha and Dutch Seduction has done for the attempted Seduction Project here on wikipedia. However, I'd like to brush by you some ideas because of a little pattern I've noticed. This is stuff I've seen in your contributions.
Consider it a little constructive criticism.
Mentioning your age, Stanford education, and position as a Community member is valuable, but don't let it get to your head. You had a few edit fuckups in love-shyness, which you seem to identify with--A LOT The problem is, you have used products and read about self-help technique, and now that you have a label for something, like "involuntary celibacy" caused by "love-shyness" or "average-frustrated chumpness" or the newest "nice guy syndrome" you seem to want to learn more about it, but at the same time, you are putting yourself in that mold of "hey, these characteristics fit me". That emphasis on yourself and what you identify as, combined with the ability to model its definition, is what makes for bad editing.
For instance, the Love-shy article was going somewhere on the mental processes of love-shy men, saying ...they would believe everyone was as reluctant as them, refusing to believe women had crushes on them. You tied that in with AFC definition, changing it to the new term, "social anxiety". This is bad precedent. When some new pickup guru shows up, calls the whole thing "Zero Scoring Technique" some user will decide that the latest buzzword for "unconscious lack of Game Products" is suitable, so the definition of love-shyness will be open to change.
I hope that part's clear; love-shyness was a word from the book and the study, which you transposed ideas of social anxiety onto. In reality, I think the emphasis on love-shy people was self-worth. They studied people who were poor, socially-inept, and weak physically. Therefore, their major problem was becoming independent, confident men in society and in social situations. Social anxiety is a slightly different concept.
Don't do it. You settled lots of debates with your own opinions, in favor of the Community. You mention, in a debate over Strauss's rumored homosexuality, that he you met him and didn't think he was gay. You also mention that cocky and funny is a good technique in your opinion, and you contend that criticisms against Neil as a traitor are not held by the Community from what you've seen.
In truth, some mention of the rumor could be placed, worded something like Strauss is noted for a metropolitan fashion sense, a lispy voice, and other effeminate characteristics stereotyped with homosexuals. You can't say that anyone looking at his picture would know that. It just isn't encyclopedic. Your meeting with him was very valuable to you, but unless something you saw could be shared with the rest of Wikipedia, its hard to fight or dispel rumors. That's why I think a little statement should be put there, because his PUA image is not immediately congruent with his personality.
C&F is a great technique for beginners? This is the last thing that should be put on Wikipedia. The whole concept of beginner implies a cult-like society with initiation and entrance exams and worse still, ideals of Game. I would avoid the terms beginner and advanced when explaining seduction, just because the heirarchy is not a good idea, and demonstrates, at least to the mainstream, just how pathetic a Community where people imitate others is..
Finally, Neil may or may not have been viewed as a traitor. Some people probably did think so, and some debate will loom about that. I'm sure your personal experience in the Community hasn't revealed much of that, but it is def worthy of discussion. I think that is a great topic for discussion, and its fun to think about. I'm going to put a little inclusion about it in The Game article.
I've seen the comments you made to Quintin3265. That was not right. You have to understand the school of thought he is coming from. He is skeptical, but, shouldn't everyone be? He was very honest in clarifying that pickup is about sexual success with women. You played with MysteryMethod too and erased his criticisms of fraud and social robot theory, which are crucial to understanding seduction companies. You even went far enough as to say, in your own words, Jeffries' position as a fraud is irrelevant to a talk page. What you're doing is censoring opposition and healthy discussion of ideas.
I actually have a lot of questions for you. I respect all that you have done here, especially with RSD vandalism. Just leave me a msg.
Sincerely,
-- SecondSight ( talk) 05:43, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Regarding my criticisms, I can only tell you that I have seen clear bias here on wikipedia before and when I saw your talk page and your special interest in Seduction, I wanted to make sure I was looking at a competent, well-rounded individual. One major concern of mine is the phenomenon of "Internet flaming". It's when someone goes on a blog or Wikipedia and posts edit after edit aimlessly, working to exercise as much of their influence as possible. When you stated that you "single-handedly wrote or re-vamped entire articles on the Seduction Community," and mentioned your status as an Ivy League student, a big red flag went up in my mind. After reading into your contributions, I found that you certainly are not guilty of any negative traits, and I won't pursue any more criticism or "inflammatory characterizations."
I still would like to know one thing. You stated several times that you are a member of the Community and that you have met Style. Let me know, what do you do in the Community? Is it like that movie School for Scoundrels? Are you in a Lair? Since you're in college, is there a big college following? Just let me know, because I honestly find it intriguing.
Sincerely,
--
PolskanPUA (
talk) 12:25, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Hey, I see that some – individuals have nominated the cockblock article for deletion. Do you have any sources that would make helpful additions to this article? Thanks, Aldrich Hanssen ( talk) 00:36, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
A bunch of "fact" templates were added to neg (seduction). It seems like I've seen all of those concepts before in various literature but I've been having trouble tracking them down. Geez, isn't a lot of that stuff just common sense whose veracity should be self-evident? I don't see what the big deal is, but evidently people are really uptight about seduction community-related stuff. They give a lot more tolerance to the various other subcultures on Wikipedia, e.g. the various sci-fi communities creating articles for all the nuances of their fictional universes. I think they have just been more successful at organizing resistance to AfDs. After all, they have a freakin' lot of participants. Well, I guess we're on our way there as well. Aldrich Hanssen ( talk) 20:26, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
I see what you're saying about the sources and all, but it still seems like it's somewhat arbitrary what they will consider to be "enough" reliable sources. All in all, the mass nominations have kinda taken the wind out of my sails; I was hoping to create a slew of articles on seduction-related subjects but it seems not worth the effort if it can all be destroyed via deletion at the whim of whoever shows up to AfD. I think there is a systemic bias going on here, and the system has created the means by which people can forcibly influence, based on their own personal opinions, what Wikipedia covers and what it doesn't. If we got rid of the notability requirement and just allowed all verifiable content to stay here, then it would create a much more objective system and we wouldn't have all these problems. Having said that, I'm well-aware of the unlikelihood of that happening and am basically waving the white flag at this point. Aldrich Hanssen ( talk) 01:34, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps the source of the systemic bias is that our opponents here are mostly either chicks (who have a tendency to say "Those techniques would never work on me!" when in fact they probably would) and guys who have not tried these techniques and realized that they work; if they had, they would be out banging chicks rather than trying to delete Wikipedia articles. Aldrich Hanssen ( talk) 17:57, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
The Editor's Barnstar | ||
Thank you for your quick and skillful work on those two articles I put up for AfD. I really appreciate your positive attitude and willingness to work with the process without being antagonistic. Quality editing! Rob Banzai ( talk) 15:22, 9 August 2008 (UTC) |
"Great minds think alike". ;) I added a new section to Alison's talk page only to find after it had been saved you had just written yourself almost exactly the same! lol, a funny coincidence indeed. :) Mathmo Talk 10:38, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
"Many men in the seduction community perceive a disparity between women's stated preferences and behaviors". I worry that this is sailing too close to thinking "women say no when they mean yes", as a statement. I see what you mean about men being like it too though, but I would say that people are like that maybe due to manners, social conventions or a lack of assertiveness to answer back if they don't like something. It's easy for all of us to live like robots, in that we find it hard to say no to anything, so do what everyone else wants. Well that's my thought of the week.:) I think most women would prefer compliments to 'neg-ing'. Also, not making social blunders like 'nice hair- is it real?' or whatever would make a man seem to have better social skills and so to be more eligible.
As for the articles, on your userpage it says that as long as there's one or two sources an article can be made- it can but I think it needs to be more notable than just a handful of mentions in the press really to survive an AfD. At the very least, the articles should be made WP:NPOV, there's plenty of criticism to add. Wikiproject seduction says it has as one of its aims to 'make more articles' about the subject. This isn't necessarily always a good thing as we don't always need more articles, but better coverage in existing articles. If there's a proliferation of articles on non-notable subjects, I don't think editors who aren't in the seduction community will be impressed.
As to Hanssen, I have my own ideas but don't like to say. Maybe I'll just say I suspect he's a young man who's not all that experienced with women. Sticky Parkin 12:19, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for your message SecondSight.
What does it take to get a seduction company page up on Wikipedia? I had a look at the following guidelines:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Companies,_corporations_and_economic_information and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Retailing/Company_page_structure
Are those guidelines enough for a seduction company to get a page up on Wikipedia? Camera123456 ( talk) 20:57, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
On another note, I saw your message on the Savoy page. Could you help me with rewriting the page?
Thanks in advance. Camera123456 ( talk) 21:19, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
Hi - I just wanted to let you I went to replace some of the language on the Savoy page. I had originally cut and pasted some of the material from the Love Systems website, but I think it looks better now. I'm not done and will keep working on it, but please let me know any more suggestions for establishing what you'd consider an npov. I am very grateful for your help! Camera123456 ( talk) 00:26, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Hi - Some administrator is trying to delete the "Nick Savoy" page for personal reasons. The page is going through deletion review right now, and I can use the help to get it back up. Could you show some support for it at this URL http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Savoy,_Nick ?
Your input is much appreciated SecondSight. Thanks in advance. Camera123456 ( talk) 18:47, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
Hi SecondSight - I was wondering if you could help me out on this David X issue. Someone keeps adding this back to the list of notable members (likely David X himself or a friend of his). It has gone on long enough. The article itself doesn't meet the quality bar either. Thanks for any help you can provide on this matter Sedcom ( talk) 14:1, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
Hi SecondSight,
It seems like all the community pages are under attack. Love Systems is another one and has abruptly been deleted. The admin, User:Spartaz, wants someone else to get the page up by putting it through DRV. Could you do that? Thanks. Coaster7 ( talk) 20:03, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
Hey SecondSight, I hope all is well. I'm planning to keep improving the seduction community articles and I've re-done the Love_Systems page already. I just completely rewrote the Nick Savoy page and put it back on DRV: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2009_January_6#User:Coaster7.2FNick_Savoy
Could you have a look at it and endorse the recreation? Thanks in advance. Coaster7 ( talk) 22:55, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
Hey man, seem to remember you were involved in the Community pages... Anyway, found one of Adam Lyons' business partners going through and methodically spamming and vandalizing pages:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DRosin#COI - just a heads up! WoodenBuddha ( talk) 03:20, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
Hallo, could you weigh in on the Jeremy Soul AfD? Cheers WoodenBuddha ( talk) 04:35, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is Average frustrated chump. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also Wikipedia:Notability and " What Wikipedia is not").
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A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Seduction community is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
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Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Guy ( Help!) 22:40, 16 March 2018 (UTC)