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hello. If you think I was gonna let your unwarranted reverting of all that work and needed modification and clearer sectioning, for uptight reasons, you're deluded. It was all already sourced. And if you uptightly felt it wasn't, you should have put (maybe) tags. But you were out of line here. I'm serious. I'm tired of this. No valid reason to remove, it was all already sourced, and there was definitely no valid reason to undo the clearer sectioning...stop edit-warring and disrespecting... I won't put up with it. Or take it to Talk. If you revert again, you'll be reverted. I won't violate 3RR though (I never do).
If you thought some aspects of my edits were not valid, then you could have modified or removed parts of it. The point is that you undid EVERYTHING. Even the better clearer sectioning. The way it was before was completely cockeyed...with no sectioning from the beginning, and no proper divisions.
The part that you say did not follow from other sentence, I presume the "as Anabaptists", I believe actually did, if you look at it more carefully.
If you had a problem with the picture, I can maybe understand that (maybe), but that's just one part of it. You disrespected ALL my work, because I let you get away with that on another article. When it looks like I should not have. I won't happen here.
But you crossed the line here. I advise against tampering with my edits this time. Don't edit-war.
What I did was minor modification and clarification, and good better sectioning. And better spacing, into some separate clearer paragraphs. That you just summarily spit on, hastily. I won't tolerate that. There was no need to diss that. You have this habit. And it really wasn't necessary here. Please refrain. Thank you. Gabby Merger ( talk) 20:50, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
Here is the way the sentence before you added it was structured. "Sentence.Citation" You added something between the period and the citation, implying that what you added was located IN THAT CITATION. It was not. If you want to add or clarify something, do not add that thing between a citation and that which is being cited.
Instead of
However, while St. Gregory of Nyssa taught a view similar to the Ransom position, others, such as St. Gregory the Theologian, vigorously denied that Christ was a ransom to the devil. The Greek Orthodox view is that the "ransom price" was paid by Christ to satisfy universal reality, in freeing sinful man from death's grip. [1] A catechism of the Orthodox Church in America states:
"In Orthodox theology generally it can be said that the language of 'payment' and 'ransom' is rather understood as a metaphorical and symbolical way of saying that Christ has done all things necessary to save and redeem mankind enslaved to the devil, sin and death, and under the wrath of God. He 'paid the price, not in some legalistic or juridical or economic meaning. He "paid the price" not to the devil whose rights over man were won by deceit and tyranny. He 'paid the price' not to God the Father in the sense that God delights in His sufferings and received 'satisfaction' from His creatures in Him. He 'paid the price' rather, we might say, to Reality Itself. He 'paid the price' to create the conditions in and through which man might receive the forgiveness of sins and eternal life by dying and rising again in Him to newness of life. (See Romans 5:8and Galatians 2:4)
By dying on the cross and rising from the dead, Jesus Christ cleansed the world from evil and sin. He defeated the devil 'in his own territory' and on 'his own terms.' The 'wages of sin is death'. Rom. 6:23 NIV So the Son of God became man and took upon Himself the sins of the world and died a voluntary death. By His sinless and innocent death accomplished entirely by His free will—and not by physical, moral, or juridical necessity—He made death to die and to become itself the source and the way into life eternal." [2]
- ^ John S. Romanides, The Ancestral Sin, Zephyr, 1998
- ^ Fr. Thomas Hopko, http://www.oca.org/OCchapter.asp?SID=2&ID=20
You should have
However, while St. Gregory of Nyssa taught a view similar to the Ransom position, others, such as St. Gregory the Theologian, vigorously denied that Christ was a ransom to the devil. [1]
The Greek Orthodox view is that the "ransom price" was paid by Christ to satisfy universal reality, in freeing sinful man from death's grip. A catechism of the Orthodox Church in America states:
In Orthodox theology generally it can be said that the language of “payment” and “ransom” is rather understood as a metaphorical and symbolical way of saying that Christ has done all things necessary to save and redeem mankind enslaved to the devil, sin and death, and under the wrath of God. He “paid the price,” not in some legalistic or juridical or economic meaning. He “paid the price” not to the devil whose rights over man were won by deceit and tyranny. He “paid the price” not to God the Father in the sense that God delights in His sufferings and received “satisfaction” from His creatures in Him. He “paid the price” rather, we might say, to Reality Itself. He “paid the price” to create the conditions in and through which man might receive the forgiveness of sins and eternal life by dying and rising again in Him to newness of life. (See Romans 5-8; Galatians 2-4)
By dying on the cross and rising from the dead, Jesus Christ cleansed the world from evil and sin. He defeated the devil “in his own territory” and on “his own terms.” The “wages of sin is death.” (Romans 6:23) So the Son of God became man and took upon Himself the sins of the world and died a voluntary death. By His sinless and innocent death accomplished entirely by His free will — and not by physical, moral, or juridical necessity - He made death to die and to become itself the source and the way into life eternal.
— Fr Thomas Hopko, The Orthodox Faith - Volume 1: Doctrine [2]
- ^ John S. Romanides, The Ancestral Sin, Zephyr, 1998
- ^ Hopko, Thomas (1972), The Orthodox Faith: Doctrine, vol. 1, Department of Religious Education, The Orthodox Church in America, ISBN 978-0-86642-036-5, retrieved 6 September 2013
The way you cited it implied that Romanides stated that the Greek Orthodox View was that the Ransom was paid to satisfy universal reality, which the source does not support. The second way shows clearly that you are getting that information from a different source. Learn to properly cite and format things and I'll stop reverting your improper edits (because they won't be improper anymore). Stop expecting other people to do your work for you and format things correct. You should also avoid wikilinks inside quotations. ReformedArsenal ( talk) 15:15, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
Gabby, when I gave you examples, I was simply rearranging the information you presented. After I did that I looked at the article and did a full revision and formatting update on all the sources. It was during this work that I discovered that you were not only placing the source in the wrong place, but were also improperly representing what the source was (not a catechism) and the scope of the sources's statement (not representative of the whole Orthodox tradition nor a WP:RS stating that this is the orthodox position). ReformedArsenal ( talk) 13:00, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
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![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | → | Archive 15 |
hello. If you think I was gonna let your unwarranted reverting of all that work and needed modification and clearer sectioning, for uptight reasons, you're deluded. It was all already sourced. And if you uptightly felt it wasn't, you should have put (maybe) tags. But you were out of line here. I'm serious. I'm tired of this. No valid reason to remove, it was all already sourced, and there was definitely no valid reason to undo the clearer sectioning...stop edit-warring and disrespecting... I won't put up with it. Or take it to Talk. If you revert again, you'll be reverted. I won't violate 3RR though (I never do).
If you thought some aspects of my edits were not valid, then you could have modified or removed parts of it. The point is that you undid EVERYTHING. Even the better clearer sectioning. The way it was before was completely cockeyed...with no sectioning from the beginning, and no proper divisions.
The part that you say did not follow from other sentence, I presume the "as Anabaptists", I believe actually did, if you look at it more carefully.
If you had a problem with the picture, I can maybe understand that (maybe), but that's just one part of it. You disrespected ALL my work, because I let you get away with that on another article. When it looks like I should not have. I won't happen here.
But you crossed the line here. I advise against tampering with my edits this time. Don't edit-war.
What I did was minor modification and clarification, and good better sectioning. And better spacing, into some separate clearer paragraphs. That you just summarily spit on, hastily. I won't tolerate that. There was no need to diss that. You have this habit. And it really wasn't necessary here. Please refrain. Thank you. Gabby Merger ( talk) 20:50, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
Here is the way the sentence before you added it was structured. "Sentence.Citation" You added something between the period and the citation, implying that what you added was located IN THAT CITATION. It was not. If you want to add or clarify something, do not add that thing between a citation and that which is being cited.
Instead of
However, while St. Gregory of Nyssa taught a view similar to the Ransom position, others, such as St. Gregory the Theologian, vigorously denied that Christ was a ransom to the devil. The Greek Orthodox view is that the "ransom price" was paid by Christ to satisfy universal reality, in freeing sinful man from death's grip. [1] A catechism of the Orthodox Church in America states:
"In Orthodox theology generally it can be said that the language of 'payment' and 'ransom' is rather understood as a metaphorical and symbolical way of saying that Christ has done all things necessary to save and redeem mankind enslaved to the devil, sin and death, and under the wrath of God. He 'paid the price, not in some legalistic or juridical or economic meaning. He "paid the price" not to the devil whose rights over man were won by deceit and tyranny. He 'paid the price' not to God the Father in the sense that God delights in His sufferings and received 'satisfaction' from His creatures in Him. He 'paid the price' rather, we might say, to Reality Itself. He 'paid the price' to create the conditions in and through which man might receive the forgiveness of sins and eternal life by dying and rising again in Him to newness of life. (See Romans 5:8and Galatians 2:4)
By dying on the cross and rising from the dead, Jesus Christ cleansed the world from evil and sin. He defeated the devil 'in his own territory' and on 'his own terms.' The 'wages of sin is death'. Rom. 6:23 NIV So the Son of God became man and took upon Himself the sins of the world and died a voluntary death. By His sinless and innocent death accomplished entirely by His free will—and not by physical, moral, or juridical necessity—He made death to die and to become itself the source and the way into life eternal." [2]
- ^ John S. Romanides, The Ancestral Sin, Zephyr, 1998
- ^ Fr. Thomas Hopko, http://www.oca.org/OCchapter.asp?SID=2&ID=20
You should have
However, while St. Gregory of Nyssa taught a view similar to the Ransom position, others, such as St. Gregory the Theologian, vigorously denied that Christ was a ransom to the devil. [1]
The Greek Orthodox view is that the "ransom price" was paid by Christ to satisfy universal reality, in freeing sinful man from death's grip. A catechism of the Orthodox Church in America states:
In Orthodox theology generally it can be said that the language of “payment” and “ransom” is rather understood as a metaphorical and symbolical way of saying that Christ has done all things necessary to save and redeem mankind enslaved to the devil, sin and death, and under the wrath of God. He “paid the price,” not in some legalistic or juridical or economic meaning. He “paid the price” not to the devil whose rights over man were won by deceit and tyranny. He “paid the price” not to God the Father in the sense that God delights in His sufferings and received “satisfaction” from His creatures in Him. He “paid the price” rather, we might say, to Reality Itself. He “paid the price” to create the conditions in and through which man might receive the forgiveness of sins and eternal life by dying and rising again in Him to newness of life. (See Romans 5-8; Galatians 2-4)
By dying on the cross and rising from the dead, Jesus Christ cleansed the world from evil and sin. He defeated the devil “in his own territory” and on “his own terms.” The “wages of sin is death.” (Romans 6:23) So the Son of God became man and took upon Himself the sins of the world and died a voluntary death. By His sinless and innocent death accomplished entirely by His free will — and not by physical, moral, or juridical necessity - He made death to die and to become itself the source and the way into life eternal.
— Fr Thomas Hopko, The Orthodox Faith - Volume 1: Doctrine [2]
- ^ John S. Romanides, The Ancestral Sin, Zephyr, 1998
- ^ Hopko, Thomas (1972), The Orthodox Faith: Doctrine, vol. 1, Department of Religious Education, The Orthodox Church in America, ISBN 978-0-86642-036-5, retrieved 6 September 2013
The way you cited it implied that Romanides stated that the Greek Orthodox View was that the Ransom was paid to satisfy universal reality, which the source does not support. The second way shows clearly that you are getting that information from a different source. Learn to properly cite and format things and I'll stop reverting your improper edits (because they won't be improper anymore). Stop expecting other people to do your work for you and format things correct. You should also avoid wikilinks inside quotations. ReformedArsenal ( talk) 15:15, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
Gabby, when I gave you examples, I was simply rearranging the information you presented. After I did that I looked at the article and did a full revision and formatting update on all the sources. It was during this work that I discovered that you were not only placing the source in the wrong place, but were also improperly representing what the source was (not a catechism) and the scope of the sources's statement (not representative of the whole Orthodox tradition nor a WP:RS stating that this is the orthodox position). ReformedArsenal ( talk) 13:00, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
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Note: All columns in this table are sortable, allowing you to rearrange the table so the articles most interesting to you are shown at the top. All images have mouse-over popups with more information.
We have changed the number of suggested articles and which categories they are selected from. The number of stubs has been greatly reduced, the number of articles needing sources doubled, and two new categories added (orphans and unencyclopaedic articles). We have also modified the layout of the suggestions and added sortable columns with various types of information about each article. The first two columns are:
The method we use to predict article quality also allows us to assess whether an article might need specific types of work in order to improve its quality. The work needed might not correspond to cleanup tags added to the article, since our method is not based on those. We have added five columns reflecting this work assessment, where a red X indicates improvement is needed. Placing your cursor over an X should give you a pop-up with a short description of the work needed. The five columns seek to answer the following five questions:
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Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Ransom theory of atonement. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see suggestions for responding. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from Wikipedia:Feedback request service. — Legobot ( talk) 00:07, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
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