Welcome!
Hello, MorrowStravis, and welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay.
There's a page about creating articles you may want to read called
Your first article. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the
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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome!-- Mishae ( talk) 23:37, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
I have not forgotten you, but I got sucked away, and have not made it back. Please feel free to ping my talkpage, if you wonder where the heck I went. :-) Thanks for improving wikipedia. 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 20:52, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
I'm gonna let you do all the talking. But I'll try and help you out with the policy-stuff, because there's five billion of them. You started out well. Here is Jack's main contention:
"One of the criteria we use to determine whether a reference is suitable for use"
Your reply is that, basically, Jack sounds like he is not in favor of any links to external wikis, at all. That is a correct assessment! Hence why he removed both the wiki-links, back in 2012.
As you also point out, WP:EL disagrees with Jack, in certain cases. But you failed to take advantage of this (policy being in your favor) in two important ways: first, you mentioned WP:EL, which is good, but you failed to *specifically* mention the critical snippet. It's a ten page policy paper, which links to fifty others, all of *them* ten pages long. Jack does not have time to read all that! WP:REQUIRED and also WP:BURDEN, right? Right. So help him out. We've already pasted the specific exceptions. But where is the *philosophical* reason why the WP:EL supports our plan, to get an external-wiki into the external links section? At the top of WP:EL, it says this.... "Some acceptable links include... information that could not be added to the article for reasons such as... amount of detail, or other meaningful, relevant content that is not suitable for inclusion in an article for reasons unrelated to its accuracy."
Second advantage in our favor: Jack has done a lot of work, over the years, to keep the wikipedia article free of non-encyclopedic statistics, vast amounts of non-encyclopedic details, and 'fan-cruft' in general. Positively absolutely, it will *help* Jack personally (or folks like him such as NikkiMaria) if there is an external wiki, like YJW, which anybody can edit, listed as an external link... where vast details and blow-by-blow statistics are not just okay, but welcomed.
So, your reply is good. Add some of the above if you wish... or wait to see what Jack says in return. It might take a few days; he might want to wait a bit, so we know what is happening with the two RfC things that are open, yours about YJW, and his about WFO. In the meantime, please skim the stuff in WP:RS, which methinks is where Jack is coming from in his very first sentence (pasted up top). Our argument is *not* that YJW should be used as a *source* aka as a *reference*, for backing up facts in the article. We're saying that it belongs as an external link, a unique vastly-detailed outside resource, which is out of scope for wikipedia (too much detail is non-encyclopedic). We don't plan to cite YJW when we add sentences to the wikipedia article; we just want readers, who are interested in the series and want to learn more, are able to satisfy that desire. *Jack* wants a place, when editors try to expand wikipedia so as to include every episode and every character no matter how outside WP:NOTEWORTHY they are for an encyclopedia entry, to have a place that person can put such info.
I expect things will work out just fine, in other words. :-) — 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 23:20, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
You said --
"...could never be any links to any links at all."
A bit confusing. Suggest instead:
"...could never be any External Links to any external-wiki-fansites at all."
Also, it will help if you say Memory Alpha, since Jack might not know what that is, offhand. 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 23:23, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
We cannot put the EL back in quite yet, methinks. We would like to have everybody on our side. This is called consensus. It takes longer to achieve, but it is the difference between winning by beating the content-dispute-opponent, and winning by getting the content-dispute-opponent to become your friend, and thereafter help you preserve the new content indefinitely. We'd rather get the EL into the article, and have Jack/Lucia/Justin/Liz/Chris/NikkiMaria all in favor of the change, and ready to revert folks that come by later to delete it. There *will* be such folks, I guarantee, deletionists are everywhere.
Anyhoo, left you a long explanation on my talkpage (with the capsule summary here... which is that Lucia is doing the right thing, so keep your cool, say you are sorry for failing to assume good faith, and let us win her over with honey rather than 'beat' her in debating-vinegar). Also, did some legwork to figure out if YJW actually *does* offer a Unique Resource, see the article-talkpage for my results. Thanks as usual (nice tightening up the "acclaim" prose btw -- your pillar#2 kung fu grows stronger methinks), and also as usual please ping my talkpage if none of this makes sense. :-) — 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 08:14, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
I'll let you do the honors. :-)
Suggest something like this:
Also, suggest that you not remove the WorldsFinestOnline, and that you put the YJW link underneath that one in the EL-list. Somebody else will surely come along and fix the obvious problem, at some point, so that only one major fansite is listed.
Thanks, and sorry this took foh-evah. :-) — 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 22:04, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
Talk:Young_Justice_(TV_series)#RfC:_Should_a_link_to_Young_Justice_Wiki_be_included.3F
Somebody closed the discussion. Named like some kind of robotic being, or something... I_JethroBT
I shudder to think what their intransigent positronic mind has decided shall be our fate. :-) p.s. happy proleptic gregorian increment. — 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 07:58, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
this is the second time Im asking you please stop deleting my changes, or I will be required to report your actions as vandalism. -Master2121, — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Master 2121 ( talk • contribs) 19:12, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
okay seriously stop messing with my edits, this isn't funny, just stop. -Master2121, — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Master 2121 ( talk • contribs) 19:12, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
captain marvel is his name they even say it in the show. -Master2121, — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Master 2121 ( talk • contribs) 19:12, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
you know when im proven right im never going to let you or anybody else forget it. -Master2121, — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Master 2121 ( talk • contribs) 19:12, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
Since you were a major contributor to the /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:External_links/Noticeboard/Archive_14#Young_Justice_Wiki discussion, would you mind commenting at the discussion where I cite this particular thread: /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:External_links/Noticeboard#Honorverse_wikia
Thanks! -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:15, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
Welcome!
Hello, MorrowStravis, and welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay.
There's a page about creating articles you may want to read called
Your first article. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the
New contributors' help page, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type {{
helpme}}
on this page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Here are a few other good links for newcomers:
I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome!-- Mishae ( talk) 23:37, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
I have not forgotten you, but I got sucked away, and have not made it back. Please feel free to ping my talkpage, if you wonder where the heck I went. :-) Thanks for improving wikipedia. 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 20:52, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
I'm gonna let you do all the talking. But I'll try and help you out with the policy-stuff, because there's five billion of them. You started out well. Here is Jack's main contention:
"One of the criteria we use to determine whether a reference is suitable for use"
Your reply is that, basically, Jack sounds like he is not in favor of any links to external wikis, at all. That is a correct assessment! Hence why he removed both the wiki-links, back in 2012.
As you also point out, WP:EL disagrees with Jack, in certain cases. But you failed to take advantage of this (policy being in your favor) in two important ways: first, you mentioned WP:EL, which is good, but you failed to *specifically* mention the critical snippet. It's a ten page policy paper, which links to fifty others, all of *them* ten pages long. Jack does not have time to read all that! WP:REQUIRED and also WP:BURDEN, right? Right. So help him out. We've already pasted the specific exceptions. But where is the *philosophical* reason why the WP:EL supports our plan, to get an external-wiki into the external links section? At the top of WP:EL, it says this.... "Some acceptable links include... information that could not be added to the article for reasons such as... amount of detail, or other meaningful, relevant content that is not suitable for inclusion in an article for reasons unrelated to its accuracy."
Second advantage in our favor: Jack has done a lot of work, over the years, to keep the wikipedia article free of non-encyclopedic statistics, vast amounts of non-encyclopedic details, and 'fan-cruft' in general. Positively absolutely, it will *help* Jack personally (or folks like him such as NikkiMaria) if there is an external wiki, like YJW, which anybody can edit, listed as an external link... where vast details and blow-by-blow statistics are not just okay, but welcomed.
So, your reply is good. Add some of the above if you wish... or wait to see what Jack says in return. It might take a few days; he might want to wait a bit, so we know what is happening with the two RfC things that are open, yours about YJW, and his about WFO. In the meantime, please skim the stuff in WP:RS, which methinks is where Jack is coming from in his very first sentence (pasted up top). Our argument is *not* that YJW should be used as a *source* aka as a *reference*, for backing up facts in the article. We're saying that it belongs as an external link, a unique vastly-detailed outside resource, which is out of scope for wikipedia (too much detail is non-encyclopedic). We don't plan to cite YJW when we add sentences to the wikipedia article; we just want readers, who are interested in the series and want to learn more, are able to satisfy that desire. *Jack* wants a place, when editors try to expand wikipedia so as to include every episode and every character no matter how outside WP:NOTEWORTHY they are for an encyclopedia entry, to have a place that person can put such info.
I expect things will work out just fine, in other words. :-) — 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 23:20, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
You said --
"...could never be any links to any links at all."
A bit confusing. Suggest instead:
"...could never be any External Links to any external-wiki-fansites at all."
Also, it will help if you say Memory Alpha, since Jack might not know what that is, offhand. 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 23:23, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
We cannot put the EL back in quite yet, methinks. We would like to have everybody on our side. This is called consensus. It takes longer to achieve, but it is the difference between winning by beating the content-dispute-opponent, and winning by getting the content-dispute-opponent to become your friend, and thereafter help you preserve the new content indefinitely. We'd rather get the EL into the article, and have Jack/Lucia/Justin/Liz/Chris/NikkiMaria all in favor of the change, and ready to revert folks that come by later to delete it. There *will* be such folks, I guarantee, deletionists are everywhere.
Anyhoo, left you a long explanation on my talkpage (with the capsule summary here... which is that Lucia is doing the right thing, so keep your cool, say you are sorry for failing to assume good faith, and let us win her over with honey rather than 'beat' her in debating-vinegar). Also, did some legwork to figure out if YJW actually *does* offer a Unique Resource, see the article-talkpage for my results. Thanks as usual (nice tightening up the "acclaim" prose btw -- your pillar#2 kung fu grows stronger methinks), and also as usual please ping my talkpage if none of this makes sense. :-) — 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 08:14, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
I'll let you do the honors. :-)
Suggest something like this:
Also, suggest that you not remove the WorldsFinestOnline, and that you put the YJW link underneath that one in the EL-list. Somebody else will surely come along and fix the obvious problem, at some point, so that only one major fansite is listed.
Thanks, and sorry this took foh-evah. :-) — 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 22:04, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
Talk:Young_Justice_(TV_series)#RfC:_Should_a_link_to_Young_Justice_Wiki_be_included.3F
Somebody closed the discussion. Named like some kind of robotic being, or something... I_JethroBT
I shudder to think what their intransigent positronic mind has decided shall be our fate. :-) p.s. happy proleptic gregorian increment. — 74.192.84.101 ( talk) 07:58, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
this is the second time Im asking you please stop deleting my changes, or I will be required to report your actions as vandalism. -Master2121, — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Master 2121 ( talk • contribs) 19:12, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
okay seriously stop messing with my edits, this isn't funny, just stop. -Master2121, — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Master 2121 ( talk • contribs) 19:12, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
captain marvel is his name they even say it in the show. -Master2121, — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Master 2121 ( talk • contribs) 19:12, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
you know when im proven right im never going to let you or anybody else forget it. -Master2121, — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Master 2121 ( talk • contribs) 19:12, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
Since you were a major contributor to the /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:External_links/Noticeboard/Archive_14#Young_Justice_Wiki discussion, would you mind commenting at the discussion where I cite this particular thread: /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:External_links/Noticeboard#Honorverse_wikia
Thanks! -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:15, 28 June 2014 (UTC)