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Since you're an extremely experienced editor when it comes to GA, I'd like your informal advice on Samuel Dexter Lecompte. I recently expanded the article from a stub, and I'm wondering if it would be sufficient for me to nominate it for GA. I've never done this before, and so I need guidance here. 〜 Festucalex • talk 11:12, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
| Hello, Jo-Jo Eumerus. This is a courtesy notice that the copy edit you requested for TRAPPIST-1 at the Guild of Copy Editors requests page is now complete. All feedback welcome! Cheers, Baffle☿gab 04:46, 10 April 2023 (UTC) |
I should be able to help and there may possibly be a delay before I'm able to have a look again at the article. Sandbh ( talk) 08:07, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
I had a look at the lede and section 1. I do not know what is going on but the standard of grammar appears to have deteriorated since I last saw the article at FAC. I have adjusted where possible. There are too many technically obtuse terms. I noticed some instances of things being said about Trappist-1 that it was not such as it is not a variable star. Why does this need to be said? To my non-astronomical mind it says nothing. Sandbh ( talk) 07:18, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
I've added some to terms flagged by Sandbh, but don't take this as a definitive decision on how to explain them; I mostly put them in because removing a footnote (if we decide to do that) is easier than to readd one. Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk) 16:18, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
Hi, Jo-Jo; thanks for the ping.
We demand that the lead simultaneously be a summary of the entire article and digestible to a layperson, yet doing both on a highly complex topic might not be achievable. Or, more simply stated, the lead might have to be dumbed down more than a level. The NASA page I offer has not a single term or sentence I don't understand and I don't need to go clicking elsewhere for readability. I often suspect our problem is a) the English, not the topic, and b) the result of trying to do too much in the lead, paradoxically, to (over)comply with LEAD. We most often find this in Wikipedia's math articles, where you can go to any math textbook and find a completely readable explanation of a given topic, but Wikipedia makes the leads so impenetrable in terms of the English that one is left with no idea what the thing actually is. I am still somewhat there with TRAPPIST-1. I don't believe the problem in such cases is the highly technical subject matter, rather instead, what the writer has chosen to include in the lead and how proficient the English/grammar is at doing that. Sometimes our knowledge of the technical gets in the way of our ability to cut through to what the average reader wants or needs to know, and they have to be able to read at least the lead.
The question is not whether to use wikilinks or footnotes; it should be instead how to write a lead that requires the reader to do neither (click out to another article or click to a footnote).
It is more important to my mind that the lead be digestible to anyone who clicks on the article than it is for it to completely summarize all points raised in the body (in particular, the highly technical points). We don't want the reader to give up and go elsewhere after the first paragraph. And then, how much we have to force a reader to click out varies depending on how deep we get in to the article body sections, and how likely someone not familiar with the topic is to read that section. Taking a medical example, I wouldn't worry about forcing a reader to click out in the Pathophysiology or Causes section as much as I would in Signs and symptoms, which any casual reader might be reading.
So, looking at TRAPPIST-1 with all that in mind, we still don't have a lead that is accessible to any reader. The lead itself needs two footnotes (and is still hard to understand), while I can understand everything at the NASA page above suggests we may be trying to cover too much in the lead, and that if we rethink what needs to be stated in the lead, we might find that it can be done without going all technical. Starting over might help -- forget about everything you know and making the lead a concise summary of that, and think instead of what the layreader, who knows nothing of the topic, will want to discover. They don't want to learn the entire field of astronomy in all of its technical glory; they only want a basic understanding, and the NASA page I gave you does that without ever confusing the reader. We are trying to do too much, and not succeeding at that means the reader will want to go elsewhere after reading only the lead.
On a sidenote, we have an expert on Wikipedia at dealing with exactly this sort of thing (it's what he does for a living), and yet he was chased off of FAC-- to our great loss. If I wanted this article to be brought to FA status, I'd be over at User talk:Tony1 on my knees, begging him to help in spite of past issues at FAC, because teaching you how and leading you through fixing this article is within his capability. (THere's a grammatical error in the second sentence by the way: With a mass is about 9% of the Sun's, it has a slightly larger radius than Jupiter ... )
. Good luck, Jo-Jo; I admire your tenacity. By the way, I would never risk asking the GOCE to copyedit an article of this nature; Mike Christie was wise to decline to do so for the reasoning he gave. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 14:00, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
On 28 April 2023, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article TRAPPIST-1, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the star TRAPPIST-1 has seven planets, several of which may have temperatures that would allow the existence of liquid water (artist's impression depicted)? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/TRAPPIST-1. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page ( here's how, TRAPPIST-1), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
Aoidh ( talk) 12:02, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
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Your hook reached 12,406 views (1,033.8 per hour), making it one of the most viewed hooks of April 2023 – nice work! |
GalliumBot ( talk • contribs) (he/ it) 03:27, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
On 29 April 2023, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Salar de Pajonales, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Salar de Pajonales in Chile has been used as an analogue for environments on Mars? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Salar de Pajonales. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page ( here's how, Salar de Pajonales), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
— Amakuru ( talk) 12:03, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
This is to let you know that the above article has been scheduled as today's featured article for 22 June 2023. Please check that the article needs no amendments. Feel free to amend the draft blurb, which can be found at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/June 2023, or to make comments on other matters concerning the scheduling of this article at Wikipedia talk:Today's featured article/June 2023. I suggest that you watchlist Wikipedia:Main Page/Errors from two days before it appears on the Main Page. Thanks and congratulations on your work!— Wehwalt ( talk) 22:21, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
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JJ I've completed my first copy edit sweep. Tomorrow afternoon my time I expect to be able to complete the second sweep. The article should be gtg (good to go) after that. --- Sandbh ( talk) 07:12, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
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By the authority vested in me by myself it gives me great pleasure to present you with this barnstar in recognition of the seemingly endless series of high quality FAC reviews you generate. They are appreciated. Gog the Mild ( talk) 14:06, 14 May 2023 (UTC) |
Hey, I saw your second image reviews on this nomination and this one. Thank you so much for your work, the volume at which you are doing reviews is truly remarkable! I wanted to ask if there is something in my image reviews that requires improvement, since you're doing second ones after them. My own FAC currently requires a source review if you are interested. Regards.-- N Ø 08:31, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
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Sorry about using the not peer reviewed yet article as reference but I had believed it and contents of Wei, Xun; Zhang, Yan; Shi, Xue-Fa; Castillo, Paterno R; Xu, Yi-Gang; Yan, Quan-Shu; Liu, Ji-Hua (2022). "Co-Occurrence of HIMU and EM1 Components in a Single Magellan Seamount: Implications for the Formation of West Pacific Seamount Province". Journal of Petrology. 63 (4). doi: 10.1093/petrology/egac022. which is peer reviewed and you are aware of, meet the criteria, perhaps not. Happy to wait till published however. ChaseKiwi ( talk) 16:55, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
Hello Jo-Jo, I'm curious if you have had any problems with using only one source per paragraph at FAC. The reason I ask is because I'm currently in the process of rewriting and expanding text for an article that I plan on bringing to FA. Some information is just not widely published so there may be several paragraphs with only one source. Thanks. Volcano guy 23:31, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Salar de Gorbea, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Puna.
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@ Jo-Jo Eumerus:, Can you please draftify my article you deleted without any warning, Herzl Kabilio, into Draft:Herzl Kabilio here I can improve the article? Thanks, Das osmnezz ( talk) 16:12, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 70 | ← | Archive 74 | Archive 75 | Archive 76 | Archive 77 | Archive 78 | → | Archive 80 |
Note: All columns in this table are sortable, allowing you to rearrange the table so the articles most interesting to you are shown at the top. All images have mouse-over popups with more information. For more information about the columns and categories, please consult the documentation and please get in touch on SuggestBot's talk page with any questions you might have.
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Since you're an extremely experienced editor when it comes to GA, I'd like your informal advice on Samuel Dexter Lecompte. I recently expanded the article from a stub, and I'm wondering if it would be sufficient for me to nominate it for GA. I've never done this before, and so I need guidance here. 〜 Festucalex • talk 11:12, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
| Hello, Jo-Jo Eumerus. This is a courtesy notice that the copy edit you requested for TRAPPIST-1 at the Guild of Copy Editors requests page is now complete. All feedback welcome! Cheers, Baffle☿gab 04:46, 10 April 2023 (UTC) |
I should be able to help and there may possibly be a delay before I'm able to have a look again at the article. Sandbh ( talk) 08:07, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
I had a look at the lede and section 1. I do not know what is going on but the standard of grammar appears to have deteriorated since I last saw the article at FAC. I have adjusted where possible. There are too many technically obtuse terms. I noticed some instances of things being said about Trappist-1 that it was not such as it is not a variable star. Why does this need to be said? To my non-astronomical mind it says nothing. Sandbh ( talk) 07:18, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
I've added some to terms flagged by Sandbh, but don't take this as a definitive decision on how to explain them; I mostly put them in because removing a footnote (if we decide to do that) is easier than to readd one. Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk) 16:18, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
Hi, Jo-Jo; thanks for the ping.
We demand that the lead simultaneously be a summary of the entire article and digestible to a layperson, yet doing both on a highly complex topic might not be achievable. Or, more simply stated, the lead might have to be dumbed down more than a level. The NASA page I offer has not a single term or sentence I don't understand and I don't need to go clicking elsewhere for readability. I often suspect our problem is a) the English, not the topic, and b) the result of trying to do too much in the lead, paradoxically, to (over)comply with LEAD. We most often find this in Wikipedia's math articles, where you can go to any math textbook and find a completely readable explanation of a given topic, but Wikipedia makes the leads so impenetrable in terms of the English that one is left with no idea what the thing actually is. I am still somewhat there with TRAPPIST-1. I don't believe the problem in such cases is the highly technical subject matter, rather instead, what the writer has chosen to include in the lead and how proficient the English/grammar is at doing that. Sometimes our knowledge of the technical gets in the way of our ability to cut through to what the average reader wants or needs to know, and they have to be able to read at least the lead.
The question is not whether to use wikilinks or footnotes; it should be instead how to write a lead that requires the reader to do neither (click out to another article or click to a footnote).
It is more important to my mind that the lead be digestible to anyone who clicks on the article than it is for it to completely summarize all points raised in the body (in particular, the highly technical points). We don't want the reader to give up and go elsewhere after the first paragraph. And then, how much we have to force a reader to click out varies depending on how deep we get in to the article body sections, and how likely someone not familiar with the topic is to read that section. Taking a medical example, I wouldn't worry about forcing a reader to click out in the Pathophysiology or Causes section as much as I would in Signs and symptoms, which any casual reader might be reading.
So, looking at TRAPPIST-1 with all that in mind, we still don't have a lead that is accessible to any reader. The lead itself needs two footnotes (and is still hard to understand), while I can understand everything at the NASA page above suggests we may be trying to cover too much in the lead, and that if we rethink what needs to be stated in the lead, we might find that it can be done without going all technical. Starting over might help -- forget about everything you know and making the lead a concise summary of that, and think instead of what the layreader, who knows nothing of the topic, will want to discover. They don't want to learn the entire field of astronomy in all of its technical glory; they only want a basic understanding, and the NASA page I gave you does that without ever confusing the reader. We are trying to do too much, and not succeeding at that means the reader will want to go elsewhere after reading only the lead.
On a sidenote, we have an expert on Wikipedia at dealing with exactly this sort of thing (it's what he does for a living), and yet he was chased off of FAC-- to our great loss. If I wanted this article to be brought to FA status, I'd be over at User talk:Tony1 on my knees, begging him to help in spite of past issues at FAC, because teaching you how and leading you through fixing this article is within his capability. (THere's a grammatical error in the second sentence by the way: With a mass is about 9% of the Sun's, it has a slightly larger radius than Jupiter ... )
. Good luck, Jo-Jo; I admire your tenacity. By the way, I would never risk asking the GOCE to copyedit an article of this nature; Mike Christie was wise to decline to do so for the reasoning he gave. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 14:00, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
On 28 April 2023, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article TRAPPIST-1, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the star TRAPPIST-1 has seven planets, several of which may have temperatures that would allow the existence of liquid water (artist's impression depicted)? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/TRAPPIST-1. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page ( here's how, TRAPPIST-1), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
Aoidh ( talk) 12:02, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
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Your hook reached 12,406 views (1,033.8 per hour), making it one of the most viewed hooks of April 2023 – nice work! |
GalliumBot ( talk • contribs) (he/ it) 03:27, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
On 29 April 2023, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Salar de Pajonales, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Salar de Pajonales in Chile has been used as an analogue for environments on Mars? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Salar de Pajonales. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page ( here's how, Salar de Pajonales), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
— Amakuru ( talk) 12:03, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
This is to let you know that the above article has been scheduled as today's featured article for 22 June 2023. Please check that the article needs no amendments. Feel free to amend the draft blurb, which can be found at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/June 2023, or to make comments on other matters concerning the scheduling of this article at Wikipedia talk:Today's featured article/June 2023. I suggest that you watchlist Wikipedia:Main Page/Errors from two days before it appears on the Main Page. Thanks and congratulations on your work!— Wehwalt ( talk) 22:21, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
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JJ I've completed my first copy edit sweep. Tomorrow afternoon my time I expect to be able to complete the second sweep. The article should be gtg (good to go) after that. --- Sandbh ( talk) 07:12, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
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The Working Wikipedian's Barnstar |
By the authority vested in me by myself it gives me great pleasure to present you with this barnstar in recognition of the seemingly endless series of high quality FAC reviews you generate. They are appreciated. Gog the Mild ( talk) 14:06, 14 May 2023 (UTC) |
Hey, I saw your second image reviews on this nomination and this one. Thank you so much for your work, the volume at which you are doing reviews is truly remarkable! I wanted to ask if there is something in my image reviews that requires improvement, since you're doing second ones after them. My own FAC currently requires a source review if you are interested. Regards.-- N Ø 08:31, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
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Sorry about using the not peer reviewed yet article as reference but I had believed it and contents of Wei, Xun; Zhang, Yan; Shi, Xue-Fa; Castillo, Paterno R; Xu, Yi-Gang; Yan, Quan-Shu; Liu, Ji-Hua (2022). "Co-Occurrence of HIMU and EM1 Components in a Single Magellan Seamount: Implications for the Formation of West Pacific Seamount Province". Journal of Petrology. 63 (4). doi: 10.1093/petrology/egac022. which is peer reviewed and you are aware of, meet the criteria, perhaps not. Happy to wait till published however. ChaseKiwi ( talk) 16:55, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
Hello Jo-Jo, I'm curious if you have had any problems with using only one source per paragraph at FAC. The reason I ask is because I'm currently in the process of rewriting and expanding text for an article that I plan on bringing to FA. Some information is just not widely published so there may be several paragraphs with only one source. Thanks. Volcano guy 23:31, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Salar de Gorbea, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Puna.
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@ Jo-Jo Eumerus:, Can you please draftify my article you deleted without any warning, Herzl Kabilio, into Draft:Herzl Kabilio here I can improve the article? Thanks, Das osmnezz ( talk) 16:12, 5 June 2023 (UTC)