This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 40 | ← | Archive 45 | Archive 46 | Archive 47 | Archive 48 | Archive 49 | Archive 50 |
Hi, sorry for bother you, i know you always have a lot to do, but i need help, im searching for justice. In wikipedia spanish, I have contributed very well for more than 2 month, at first i without knowing did copyvio, but they told me what to do, and i was doing it the best i could, as i always try to do. However, since a few days ago, i have had a few problems: a user named amadis: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usuario:Amad%C3%ADs ; have been erasing my contributions, saying: "you only do copyvio, just put cites of the press or the radio, o references from the radio". the second part is true:i have a pentium III-im from peru- and i go to the university so i have no time, and also my computer doesnt support well the press-webs because its to heavy for my 56 of memory.So i have to go with somre review of press of RFI: http://www.rfi.fr/actues/articles/113/article_11794.asp; because theyre a different news that i copy to wordpad, make a resume, and edit to wikipedia, and also I say what the newspaper says as i have seen before. And I dont do anymore copyvio, it wasnt my intention, i was copying a lots of sentences from article of WSJ, and I didnt referenced it well but they told me how and i do it now! But Amadis says i that its not enough, but once a Gons make a edi1t of an edit i did so i copy her the way she reference the article as you can see here: http://es.wikipedia.org/?title=The_New_York_Times&diff=25237585&oldid=25228150; its very similar to my last contribution: http://es.wikipedia.org/?title=Citigroup&diff=26076641&oldid=26072650 and i didnt do copyvio, and instead of helping me or go and look that he is right, he just say "momoelf is suspicious for copyvio" and erase it at once, and also say that that is a press review what is false its a new of WSJ like people do in a lot of wikipedia article. I told the library Lucien: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usuario_Discusi%C3%B3n:Lucien_leGrey#Hola_lucien but he didnt give me and answer, so i dont know what to do, i have proof of what im saying, ive been doing the same as i have seen, i just want to contributed but they erase everything i do, plz help this are my contribution: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Especial:Contribuciones/Momoelf; i havent vandalized instead i have created article always with references, i do sometimes only a few lines, because i think that little by little things go bigger and i dont have a lot of time also. Plz if im doing something wrong tell me and i wont repeat it, i always ask and nobody answer me i have a lot of proofs about that. Here is the user, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lucien_leGrey ; nobody dare to answer anything, they didnt give me any proof the way i do it, they just say you are banned you are banned you dont deserve any explanations.
I just want to contribute, i feel useful when im making wikipedia better plz answer me-- Momoelf ( talk) 17:37, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
This user has now been blocked indefinitely. Griffinofwales ( talk) 19:10, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
The user has received 4 blocks. 1 for violating the etiquette rule, 1 for trolling, and 2 for block evasion, the last one being indef. Griffinofwales ( talk) 19:16, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
King Jimbo I, can I be your Duke? Make Download! your Earl, and Alf your Lord. Rory ( talk) 07:23, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Hello. I'm writing to you as a last resort, after having tried all other methods to solve this "dispute". I've left a short message on the help desk, but since that page is mostly for questions on how to use Wikipedia, I haven't elaborated the complaint there.
I'd like to officially register a complaint against various administrators and community members on Wikipedia for disruption, censorship, vandalism, biased POV pushing, and indiscriminate banning and blocking of other "non-clan" users who try to edit the article.
These users specifically include Angr, Andrew Carnie, Kwami, Taivo, Garik, dab, LingNut and rjanag.
I'd request you to have a look at the talk page archives of the article, as well as the article's own edit history, but I'm also summing up the discussion as briefly as possible for you.
The dispute basically is about the inclusion of certain schools of thought in the study of linguistics, which these above people (as admins or users or community members), claim "is not linguistics". They claim that "there is nothing called post-structural linguistics" and that the given title is "made up" and "imagined", when in fact the Google books' results and various other sources display that it has a long history of almost three to four decades. They also claim that that thinkers like Jacques Derrida, Michel Foucault, and Roland Barthes, are not "linguists" -- who were in fact a part of this "post-structural linguistics" movement.
These above users have also gone ahead and deleted and indefinitely locked a sourced article that was created on post-structural linguistics without the discussion being completed. There have been sources provided for this from day one, but they've been choosing to ignore it.
As far as consensus goes, even a blind person might be able to see that there are enough people on the community's talk page as well as on the AFD discussion of post-structural linguistics, who support the inclusion of the topic. These users, who are biased and are abusing their power as wiki admins, are ignoring and deleting perfectly well sourced material.
This, therefore, in my view, amounts to censorship, vandalism, and POV pushing. By not allowing any mention of post-structural linguistics in the main article, or even a seperate page for the sub-discipline, they are keeping an entire body of information out of this encyclopedia. This is not just offensive violation of the encyclopedia, it is dangerous. The fact that they have indiscriminately banned a couple of us for protesting (and threatening others), shows that they are also dishonest and are grossly misusing their positions as administrators.
Linguistics is an important topic, and I care about it, which is why I've been involved with this fruitless debate with the community for so many long months. I also care about other articles on wikipedia, where I may be unable to participate and comment, but which also I fear might be endangered by such proliferation and misuse by the same people. These articles under such administrators are also under threat, and since I feel Wikipedia is inherently a good initiative, and is a well intentioned project that has had a good impact on the cyberworld, I think my efforts are not being wasted. I have nothing to gain or lose from this either way (whether I'm blocked or can edit the encyclopedia is of not much personal significance to me), but I do feel that as an "Internet citizen", it is part of my responsibility to make sure that online debates and initiatives are not colonised like this by a bunch of clannish bullies.
I trust your judgment on this problem; I don't know whether you are convinced about what I'm trying to convey: that my position on this is in fact NPOV and that the one being endorsed by these administrators is not. But I request you to look into the matter and hope you see my point. I strongly feel that action needs to be taken on the guilty admins and users that I've mentioned above. I would even like to make a request that these users are permanently banned and blocked, because until they continue editing the encyclopedia, they will be disruptive (whether they admit it or not, or whether they try to pretend that it is actually others who are doing so).
Thanks. Most sincerely, Supriya (identified as 'Supriyya' on the linguistics' talk page). Tsupre ( talk) 15:57, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
I just wanted to let you know that this kind response from you did not go to waste. The presentation and panel we had on Wikipedia for journalists and bloggers was a success, and today my slides are featured on the front page of Slideshare. Thanks again for your help, Steven Walling (talk) 21:19, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
How is that working out? rootology ( C)( T) 03:46, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
...Although it is the newspapers that quoted Wikipedia that are the real embarrassments, but that is besides the point. Student's Wikipedia Hoax Fools Newspapers ( Maurice Jarre obit). How much longer until WP:FLAGGED goes live? -- 64.85.220.232 ( talk) 16:32, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
Here are my three reverts revert 1, revert 2, revert 3 which are prompted by a fundamentally unreasonable editor. I want to test this principle that someone with a reasonable expert grasp of the subject will be blocked or banned for 3RR, in preference to someone who simply cannot grasp the basic principles of reasonable discourse. Peter Damian ( talk) 21:49, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
I thought you'd like to know that Pete Forsyth is on the radio tomorrow morning repping WikiProject Oregon. -->David Shankbone 00:16, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
I would like, if I may, to draw your attention to what I believe is a rather uncivil "rant" by WP admin User:Scarian.-- Myosotis Scorpioides 13:55, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo. I see someone had created the guestbook for you. Just to say, I've added a little to make it look better. I just wanted to ask if you would like me or someone else to add {{User:Jackrm/ABs}} to it? So that more people would know about your guestbook and hopefully sign it. Just a suggestion, I think you should add a link on your userpage if you haven't already. That would also help people know about it.
Also; would you like me to add pretty flowers and ponies? Just as a little design for fun?
I signed it first! Yay! :) Ross Rhodes ( T C) Sign! 21:20, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
The comic strip is here. [1] ☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 15:42, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo, I'm just wanting to say that I remember a user saying that the chinese section of the logo had an extra dot on it or something, and then someone replied saying there were many mistakes on the logo. Have these mistakes been fixed? If not, when are they going to be fix if ever? Ross Rhodes ( T C) Sign! 13:01, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
Your page isn't supposed to be protected. You even said so! Someone protected it. Why? Stop him! 99.29.236.85 ( talk) 02:07, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
HELP! Manager of Russian Wikipedia Andrei Romanenko conducts dishonest game. He initiated elimination by any ways Arahau from Wikipedia (articles are written in 11 languages, their removal today has begun). Arahau is an a priori constructed language created by Russian writer Ivan Karasev in 2006. The Arahau language is polysynthetic and typologically active. This is unlike most constructed languages but not atypical of engineered languages. Each vowel designates a noun, and consonants designate grammatic formants. This system often lets Arahau produce compact speech. Arahau has been found to have similarities with Basque and Nakh-Dagestanian languages. Neemus ( talk) 23:08, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
I've just been checking my subpages to realise you had signed my guestbook. Thank you very much for doing that, I really do appreciate that. Ross Rhodes ( T C) Sign! 18:14, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
Feel free to look at some of my subpages. I like people to know more about me, especially great and honouable people. Just by looking at my userbox page, you'd probably know more about me than some of my friends. Ross Rhodes ( T C) Sign! 21:22, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
I have a guestbook now can you please sign it that would be the coolest heres the link sign my guestbook P-Real DA deal ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 03:24, 12 May 2009 (UTC).
Could I create it for you? I mean, only if you want. Ross Rhodes ( T C) Sign! 21:31, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Please say yes!I would love to make another guestbook! Ross Rhodes ( T C) Sign! 16:36, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
Hello there, Mr. Wales, and greetings from the land of Benson! I am Saberwolf116, the (self-proclaimed) Uncyclopedian ambassador to Wikipedia. Anyways, i've got an extremely strange request for you.
On Uncyclopedia, we have this thing called "Imperial Colonization". We take our most popular articles that are terrible in every since of the word, and rewrite them as a collaborative group. Anyways, our colonization this week happens to be Wikipedia. Seeing as how you founded Wikipedia, we were wondering if you might want to contribute a few ideas on the talk page.
Thanks for the time, that's all for now. Now if you'll excuse me, my comrades at Uncyclopedia await me.
Cheers, Saberwolf116 ( talk) 22:21, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
I noticed that wikipedia fundraising for yesterday and today have been very low. In an emergency of course you can always do those top banners. However you also might want to consider asking for funding from the U.S. gov, with the expectation that the U.S. gov, would have special admin priveleges for blocking, editing, etc. TeH nOmInAtOr ( talk) 13:06, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
I don't know if you care or not, but a couple of your accounts aren't merged to your SUL. [2] Just wanted to let you know. Cheers. Thingg ⊕ ⊗ 02:42, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Hello Jimbo,
Back in 2004, on the behalf of Wikipedia you signed up for an Amazon Associates account, as part of short-lived fund raising experiment. Four years ago, I wrote a userscript to allow users to bypass the Special:Book Sources page and have ISBN links refer directly to the book source of their choice: User:Lunchboxhero/monobook.js. This userscript is now used by over 800 users.
By default, the books source is amazon and the url includes the Amazon Associates account reference that you got five years ago. Is that account still active, and has this use of this userscript made Wikimedia any money?
Lunchboxhero ( talk) 13:58, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi, Jimmy. I've had some ongoing disagreements ( [3] [4]) with others over the Verifiability policy. My practice is to remove any information from articles that is not sourced, including things like birth dates, places of birth etc. Some have argued that that sources exist for them on the Internet that can be found with a Google search, that in some cases, the information is at sites linked to in the References sections, and that this makes the information in question sourced. Some argue that I can easily find sources for them myself, and that some of the unsourced material I added was in the articles for years, and that they were merely re-adding it after I removed it. The most frequent complaint may be that things like places or dates of birth are not contentious.
I have responded that WP:V requires that information be sourced by having the sources placed explicitly in the article, in the text where it is used, not somewhere else on the Internet or in a Google search, and that placing sources in References sections is only appropriate, according to WP:CS, for undeveloped articles. I pointed out that WP:Burden properly states that the burden of proof is on the editor adding or re-adding the material, not the one who finds it unsourced, and that unsourced material does not gain legitimacy after being in an article for some length of time, as the false material in the John Seigenthaler article was in it for four months before it was noticed, and that whether material is added initially or being re-added after being removed bears no relevance on whether it includes a citation. As to the final point, WP:V states that "any material challenged or likely to be challenged" must be supported by cites and there is your own quote regarding removal of information, "This is true of all information, but it is particularly true of negative information about living persons." My practice is to treat ALL information as requiring sources, and for a number of reasons: First, whether something is "challenged" is subjective. (Hell, I could argue that I'm challenging all such information!) Another is vandalism of the "subtle" sort--that is, vandalism in which editors add or change information that I happen to know is false, or contrary to what a source in the passage indicates, but is not particularly inflammatory, and is only likely to raise a red flag if someone on whose Watchlist that article appears notices the edit. Quite a few times when I photographed these people, for example, I heard complaints from them that their articles contained false information, even on trivial matters like date of birth. Sourcing everything solves this problem, and will help improve Wikipedia's reputation. For this reason, I believe ALL material should be sourced.
I want to know what you think. Am I right to do this? Or should I just let things like dates or places of birth, and other material go without a source? Nightscream ( talk) 02:34, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
"People who remove material realize that it is within their responsibility to confirm that no such sources exist before removing material." No, WP:Burden clearly states otherwise.
"Nightscream avoids talkpage discussion in favor of debate-by-edit-summary and block threats." A lie. Any sincere look at my Edit History shows copious amounts of Talk Page discussion, on both the Talk Pages of articles and other editors, and indeed, I've been corresponding with you on my Talk Page and yours. And last time I checked, after all, this page right here is a Talk Page, and we're having a discussion. Talk Page discussion is for issues in which proper interpretation of policy is in dispute. The removal of unsourced material is not in dispute, but I came here to double-check with Jimmy anyway, just to be sure, and he confirmed my view of WP:V. What I avoid, however, is extended discussion with people such as yourself who do not engage in a discussion in an intellectually honest or civil manner. So far you've stated lies about me on my Talk Page twice, and now again here in misrepresenting my Edit History, which is hardly motivation for me to jump through your flaming hoops. But if you want me to discuss things with you further, I will do so on two conditions: First, you acknowledge (and apologize for) falsely claiming two statements by me that I did not make. Second, that you answer the question I put to you (twice) about the Lazenby info in dispute. If you cannot do this, then I'm disinclined to speak to you further, Peter. Nightscream ( talk) 14:05, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
Yes, editors may object, and more often than not, the ones who've objected use this argument, while ignoring the part about the burden being on them to add sources, as well as the fact, as anyone can see from my editing history, that I often do go looking for sources for uncited material--I simply don't do so all the time, since I don't always have time to do so, and the burden is on them, not I, as that page states. The way I read it, that passage is in conflict, because taken to its logical extent, if an editor who finds unsourced material is always required to find sources or fact tag something all the time, then no burden is placed on those who add or re-add the material in the first place, giving them free rein to add all sorts of material that is not apparently inflammatory, defamatory or negative, while others are forced to clean up after them. You fact tag something, and then what? What if the person who added it in the first place never comes back to do source it? That passage's conflict needs to be resolved, IMO, and simply requiring all material to be sourced when it's added, and by the editor adding it, solves this problem, and would help improve Wikipedia's reputation for reliability. Also, I'm curious, Unomi, how that passage you cited jibes with the quote by Jimmy right below it? Nightscream ( talk) 22:48, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
No, I didn't find it aggressive; no apologies necessary. But as I asked before, how does your prescription of fact tags jibe with Jimmy's quote on the WP:V page? Nightscream ( talk) 15:11, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo! I've got an idea for a new portal and I don't really know who else to suggest it to. I think we should have a portal for the entire Wikimedia Foundation, as there is a lot of things that can be used in it. I'm not aware of anything existing like it at the moment. The closet I could find to it was Portal:Wikipedia. Please say what you think of the idea. Ross Rhodes ( T C) Sign! 16:50, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo,
you are indicated as the owner of Wikipedia Users Group on LinkedIn; however, according to David Gerard it is a spam group. Could you comment on this? A smaller Wikipedia-related group was planning to merge in that group to avoid unnecessary duplication, and are now unsure what to do. -- Tgr ( talk) 16:34, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
LinkedIn has turned all those groups over to us, so people should be able to join no problem.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 16:13, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo! Got another one of my suggestion that I'd like to mention, though this one may take a keen interest of yours. I think there should be a portal on yourself. I know there isn't really many pages on you, but that could change. We could just make subpages like on your biography, etc. Please have your say on this. I'm not good at making portals though I'm sure someone would do it if you want. Ross Rhodes ( T C) Sign! 16:35, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo! About a week ago I left a message here reminding you of a user that pointed out that there was a mistake on the Chinese section of the Wikipedia logo. This has now been archived somewhere in archive 47, though when the user left the message, another user later on replied saying somewhere, "...there's lots of mistakes on the Wikipedia logo that have at some point to be sorted." If this user is right, have these mistakes been sorted? If not, when will they be? -- Ross Rhodes ( T C) Sign! 21:39, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
E aí tudo mais ou menos ? Dbc2004 ( talk) 13:13, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Hello I name sahayfont(thai:สหายฟอนต์) wikipedia Come on as a user to visit a wind advisory. Pleased to know you As a founder you wikipedia Methods for each language to create wikipedia Will favor a more —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sahayfont2 ( talk • contribs) 16:17, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
This question isn't necessarily directed towards Jimbo, but I know a lot of experienced users watch this page too. How should I deal with a user who removes {{ di-no source}} tags from images without a source and doesn't add a source? Obviously, I'm doing something wrong. Apparently, removing these tags isn't considered disruptive enough for restoring the tags to be exempt from WP:3RR. Based on WP:IUP, all images need a source, and I really can't figure out a better way to explain it. Jay32183 ( talk) 09:21, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
At the proposal page Wikipedia talk:Neutrality enforcement we are discussing more NPOV ways of writing for Wikipedia and a user keeps using the phrase and referring to WP:Writing_for_the_enemy. I object to the phrase, and wrote on the talk page (updated slightly): To assume another editor or a reader is an enemy does not assume good faith. Plus saying the word "enemy" brings up visceral negative reaction making it more difficult to write for that negatively visualized person. However, the word "opponent" makes it sound more like the intellectual battle editing Wikipedia often is and is a more respectful term which is more likely to get people thinking in positive terms. I then was told you originated and liked the phrase. If true, I’d like to suggest you think about replacing “writing for the enemy” with “writing for the opponent.” CarolMooreDC ( talk) 02:34, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
I am happy with your suggestion. I am opposed to a model of Wikipedia as a battleground in the war for ideas. I think every editor should write neutrally (as best as he or she can) at all times. I am favorably impressed by the attitude embodied in proposals like this one: Wikipedia:Neutrality enforcement. -- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 14:21, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
I do have a question (actually, more of a concern). I think you have distorted the meaning of the word 'vandalise'. Sure, some people do vandalise Wikipedia pages - in the real and proper sense of the word - but others just tweak things for fun, or to prick pomposity, or to hint at a more serious flaw in an entry. I think it is wrong to call such 'tweakers' vandals. A vandal is in many societies a form of criminal yet many of the so-called Wikipedia vandals are no such thing. 'Vandal' is also an emotive word and should perhaps be reserved for those who fall at the extreme end of the scale i.e. those who recklessly despoil and ruin an otherwise valid and accurate entry. Some thought needs to be given to creating more accurate names and terms on this issue or else you risk irritating and alienating people. Indeed, they might even become the thing they are accused of if goaded long enough. Finally, from a Devil's Advocate position, I think it is bad for language and social progress to distort and twist words. Orwell showed us how this can lead to a form of creeping, pernicious thought control. So besides objecting to the catch-all use of the word 'vandal' on the grounds of grammatical pedantry, I also worry where it might lead, what with CCTV and IP traces. Who knows, in five years time somebody could theoretically be convicted of Wikipedia vandalisation, and possibly imprisoned. One need only reflect upon relatively recent events in Stalin's Russia and contemporary events in China to realise that is not a far-fetched concern. Most of us live in a 'free' world now, but who's to say what might happen in a few years time? The controls and systems currently being introduced via new technology would hand any future dictatorship complete control over our lives. [For example, although I am posting without a user name, I am certain that my comments will be quickly logged, filed and linked to my IP address.] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.16.208.83 ( talk) 16:05, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
But it kept saying "mailer error". Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.233.68.44 ( talk) 05:31, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
You might want to check out Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Bishonen_using_status_as_admin_to_control_others_while_violating_our_civility_policy if you have a moment. Exxolon ( talk) 01:36, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
G'day Jimbo - just by chance I happen to have sent a post to foundation-l about this one a few moments ago, and swung by here to see that you're in blocking mode! I wonder if, given this, you might be inclined to do anything about this, this evening?
Ps. If you're struggling to cope with the backstory of the latest broo ha ha, you should probably at least be informed that the catalyst was a problem with a user who recently became an admin, and, it transpires, had posted your personal details (name, birthdate, address, and information about whom you share your residence with) on IRC, garnered from private access to some sort of electoral database. In all seriousness, the toxic personalities may not be so obvious, and calling folk 'little shits' is far less serious than plagiarism, and the breaching of trust on privacy issues, I reckon... Privatemusings ( talk) 02:57, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Geez, this again? - ALLST✰R▼ echo wuz here @ 04:30, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
PM, to mix two sayings, you're beating a dead horse about the bush. the wub "?!" 10:19, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
False advertising I didn't see any genitalia, shaved or otherwise. Are people confusing an exposed bellybutton and belly button piercing with genitalia per chance? Seems to me there are more serious concerns to get upset about. Like bare nipples. The HORROR!!! ChildofMidnight ( talk) 15:47, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Let us not forget that anything which detracts from creating an environment conducive to the creation of a collaborative encyclopedia inherently detracts from Wikipedia's mission. Could this image offend some people, yes. Is it reasonable to expect such things when visiting a userpage, no. Is this image helpful in any way, no. So where does that leave us? Prodego talk 17:33, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
I've no opinion on the nudity, but I agree that there are more pressing problems. Where are we on Flagged Revisions? PM, your massive energy would be well spent pushing that. rootology/ equality 17:43, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
A few comments here:
Now I really want to resolve this amicably. Privatemusings, I respectfully request that you collapse this thread. Durova Charge! 18:11, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Is Wikipedia a bunch of tattle tales with too much free time, or are we here to edit (and protect) an online encyclopedia? Which is it for crying out loud. JBsupreme ( talk) 21:27, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
it is about having a quality work environment with due respect for others.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 17:18, 22 May 2009 (UTC) Good point. there are more pressing problems -- No one is under an obligation here to work only on the most pressing problems. Sometimes some of us want to address other problems. We're volunteers; we get interested in what we get interested in. Personally, I find it interesting that the pic's defenders have such a puritanical attitude about what the rest of us should be concerning ourselves with when we visit Wikipedia. No one should be ashamed of finding the use of that pic shameful. This is Wikipedia, dammit! We've got a right to be outraged! And I'm not even being ironic about this. There's enough staffing at this place to handle more than one outrage and build up the 'pedia at the same time. In America we have a three-day holiday weekend just starting, and I for one intend to honor the fallen soldiers who died for my right to waste my time by, in part, wasting my time. (And I'm still not being ironic about this.) -- Noroton ( talk) 22:17, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi there Emmette, about the userpage bar, I think the one at the bottom is good enough without having to put another one at the top, especially how I think the one at the top kind of ruins the page's image. Though this is just my opinion. If other users agree with you having it there, then I'll except having it. Ross Rhodes ( T C) Sign! 13:23, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
Ross Rhodes, at first I misunderstood what you meant by "kind of ruins the page's image", I understand now and have fixed it.-- Emmette Hernandez Coleman ( talk) 13:43, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
Jack Merridew removed the userpage bar with the edit summery "-dupe {{userpage}} — too intrusive at top". Jack Merridew would you like to take part in this discussion?-- Emmette Hernandez Coleman ( talk) 17:40, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
Let's remember, Jimbo Wales can override a decision we make about this issue, because this is his userpage-- Emmette Hernandez Coleman ( talk) 17:49, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
Dear Jimbo—I mentioned you and your role WRT ArbCom here. I hope you regard this as in good faith: it was intended as such. Tony (talk) 09:00, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
I find that Wiki's are very helpful. I and other gamers that I know use Wiki for our gaming needs. Thanks Jimbo for creating a user friendly source of information.. DT 129.71.117.210 10:15, 16 May 2009 (archiving timestamp Fram ( talk) 12:40, 26 May 2009 (UTC))
User:Shane91c has given you a bubble tea! Bubble teas promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a bubble tea, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy drinking!
Spread the bubbliness of bubble teas by adding {{ subst:bubble tea}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shane91c ( talk • contribs) May 18, 2009
(archiving timestamp Fram ( talk) 12:40, 26 May 2009 (UTC))
Is this an endorsement of the long absent ideal that any user, from the newly registered user, to the Arbs, up to yourself, are held to identical requirements of adherence to policy? rootology ( C)( T) 02:22, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Jimmy, for what it's worth, I was dismayed when I saw this edit, and wished you'd mentioned 'conduct' rather than 'editors', especially considering the circumstances of the block. Casliber ( talk · contribs) 14:49, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
we are all capable of error and folly, and should be forgiven such if we are acting in good faith. Nothing is simple. Justice is complex and thoughtful. Kindness is a lifestyle not an algorithm. What beautiful sentiments Mr. Wales. Surely your followers will quote that all over the place while they ban someone for some minor or perceived offense. But I pry thee tell me, oh philosopher king, how do you respond to the following quote?
Jimbo in the old days went through amazing amounts of pain to protect people who were perceived to be on "his side" on WP. And took, on behalf of WP, amazing amounts of reputational damage for it: think of Essjay, JzG, Jayjg, Ryulong, Raul654, Gerard, SlimVirgin, the long list of people in our "notable editors" gallery here on WR.
Sometimes these people weren't even friends of Jimbo, but Durova-style vague friends of friends, ala Weiss/Mantanmoreland who was never anybody of power on WP, but who Jimbo and Gerard set out to personally protect from the depredations of.... Patrick Byrne!! I don't think Jimbo ever even met Weiss. Hell, you'd think that a pack of Zombies and Vampires were after Weiss. But no. He was only criticized by some business exec guy in Utah who wasn't even an irrational man, much less a criminally dangerous or crazy man.
So yes, Jimbo, you've managed to tolerate and protect a lot of toxic personalities and their agendas on WP. Too often, in fact almost unerringly, when you've chosen sides, you've chosen the wrong dog in the fight. You went after a Greg Kohs or a Daniel Brandt or a Judd Bagley. Why is that, you wonder? Just your bad luck?
Well, no. What has happened is that you've chosen the "Wikipedian" in every fight as though they were some loyal member of your family. But I've got news for you: they weren't. The side you chose was just the side that happened to get to Wikipedia FIRST, and manipulate it. Because they were manipulators by nature, and they had the time to do it, because THEY HAD NO LIFE. And to you, that looked like dedication. In fact, it was mental illness at worst, and pathological lack of social attachment to the world at best.
This is what happens when you choose your loyalties by who has spent the most time on Wikipedia, Jimbo. You end up with a "family" of nuts who demand your loyalty, and have totally gamed your system. You've been "pwned".
It's always been that way in the past, and (here's the horrible part) it's set up to be that way in the future, too. And now that you know it (even assuming in best case that you read this) there's still nothing you can do about it, while WP is configured the way you designed it.
I did not write it, Milton Roe on Wikipedia Review did. I'm merely relaying to you as an interested party. We are all, indeed, flawed people who make mistakes. But one of the keys to becoming a better person is to openly acknowledge one's mistakes and try to learn from them. Often this requires brutal honesty, more than kindness. Bishonen and Giano are two such brutally honest people. For this, in my view and to that of many, they have been not simply discouraged but actively prosecuted by you and the power structure you have created. So please tell me, Mr. Wales, why I should not believe the Milton Roe's statement above is the truth?-- R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine) ( talk) 15:22, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Regarding what R.D.H. brought up above, Zero tolerance, shoot on sight is the sort of "wikilove" Jimbo supported for the Byrne/Bagley side in their conflict with Weiss; soon after this dictum was posted, Cla68 was blocked for taking a mildly questioning tone about it. *Dan T.* ( talk) 23:59, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
There's an interesting article from Wired about aspects of open-source culture and online communities resembling Socialist collectivism. They specifically mention Wikipedia as an example.
Instead of gathering on collective farms, we gather in collective worlds. Instead of state factories, we have desktop factories connected to virtual co-ops. Instead of sharing drill bits, picks, and shovels, we share apps, scripts, and APIs. Instead of faceless politburos, we have faceless meritocracies, where the only thing that matters is getting things done. Instead of national production, we have peer production. Instead of government rations and subsidies, we have a bounty of free goods.
http://www.wired.com/culture/culturereviews/magazine/17-06/nep_newsocialism
While not necessarily being Communism, there is no doubt at least that Wikipedia has a strong emphasis on community-driven decision-making. ☯ Zenwhat ( talk)
I always thought Wikipedia was an anarcho-syndicalist commune. MuZemike 21:11, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm not sure meritocracy applies to wikipedia, though I wish it did a bit more... Oligarchy ticks more boxes, and fits the analogy too. Verbal chat 16:00, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
I made a See also section ( click here to view it) but Jack Merridew reverted it with the edit summery "go back 4 spaces; poor changes to structure, dubious link additions by someone too focused here"-- Emmette Hernandez Coleman ( talk) 15:43, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
This discussion is now on WP:VRP. Please click on the link to that page if you wish to contribute to this discussion. Ross Rhodes ( T C) Sign! 20:05, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Mr. Wales, this is the first time myself or a friend or relative has attempted to contact you. We have each attempted numerous numerous times in the past 22 months to solicit helpful intervention from many Wikipedia Administrators, but in almost every single case, the Administrator ends up worsening the problem or making only a few feeble attempts to understand it and "fix" things...and then basically "runs away," confused or intimidated by the complexity or volatility involved -- or deciding to further harass and defame the Mormon involved. As a result of this, a particularly cunning and obsessive cyberstalker has been able to censor or mutilate articles and items of information of great interest to Mormons, researchers, and rights activists everywhere. Just today, he and an accomplice of his Luna Santin put a total edit block on Temple Lot and Church of Christ (Temple Lot) in order to preserve "and protect" Good Olfactory = Snocrates's smear campaign at both articles since the first of December 2007. Disgraced editor Snocrates quit editing on February 16, 2008 and Good Olfactory began editing on February 16, 2008. I'm disappointed to realize that some Administrators possibly knew that the Wiki-arsonist Snocrates is the same as Wiki-arsonist Good Olfactory, and haven't done anything to stop his misconduct, but have done plenty to assist.
A few recent explanations of the problem are here and here and here (please scroll down that page) and here (note there how GoodOlFactory=Snocrates on March 7 2008 once again "tag teams" a victim editor...just 21 days after he was denied Administratorship for "tag teaming" a victim editor via Zoporific=Snocrates....!). Another useful recent resource of explanation is here on GoodOlFactorys Talk Page --comments offered before the victims of Snocrates realized that he and GoodOlFactory are one and the same. By now, there are hundreds of relevant edits, reverts, comments and so forth related to the cyberstalking scheme initiated by a couple of users in late July 2007, and then "picked up" and intensified by Snocrates = Zoporific= G77= Good Olfactory as well as accomplices such as Americasroof in December 2007 and (sadly) Versageek who banned the cyberstalking victim on December 18, 2007 when he announced he would contact Law Enforcement if the cyberstalking continued. That's not a legal threat, that's a universally-recognized civil right, for a victim of a crime to "threaten" to contact relevant police authorities. A legal threat is "threatening" to hire a lawyer and so forth. It is sad that Versageek did that, because she was helpful to the cyberstalking victim in August and earlier in December 2007, but it was wrong and injurious for Versageek to ban the cyberstalking victim and then refuse to lift the ban, to this day, just as it is wrong for the "malicious genius" Snocrates=Zoporific=G77=GoodOlfactory and accomplices to keep banning and censoring anything offered at Wikipedia by Mr. Smith or family and friends who may occassionally share his username.
I would like for Jsmith51389 to be un-banned, the same as was CheckIntentPlease, after some Administrators realized he was right about Snocrates/Zoporific, and they were wrong (see a few extra-noble Wiki Administrators apologize at the Talk Page for CheckIntentPlease) And I would like any other so-called "suspected sockpuppet" of Jsmith 51389 or friends or relatives of his (such as Snocrates Olfactorys intent and Who Framed Roger Rabbit? to also be un-banned, on the principle that every single instance of banning has been unfair, misinformed and/or malicious.
I apologize that I don't have the time now to add a lot of convenient documentation and explanation, but as you know, defamation instigates harassment and still more defamation if someone influential and authoritative is unwilling or unable to intervene. Please intervene and completely stop in all articles and Talk pages of Wikipedia, the vicious cycle of defamation and harrassment instigated in 1990 and 1991 by a malicious or inept anti-Mormon media reports locally and then replicated countless times nationwide to the present day (thanks to the internet), ranging from an atrocious false report atop the Kansas City Times/Star on January 2, 1990 to the Associated Press thereafter, and the virulently anti-Mormon Watchman Fellowship to the present day. Thank you. Victim of Cybercrime ( talk) 18:59, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Jimbo, I've been compelled to return to you one more time in relation to the editor FyzixFighter. I reported him twice recently to the administrators incidents noticeboard for wiki-hounding. I gave ample evidence to the extent that he has been following me around on physics articles undermining my attempts to make these articles more readable. The administrators turned a blind eye to the evidence and ignored the complaint. That of course gave FyzixFighter the green light to continue in earnest.
I specifically want to bring your attention to this passage which I have copied from the yesterday's centrifugal force talk page. Basically FyzixFighter is trying to prevent me from making references in the article to the extent that centrifugal force can be treated outside of the context of rotating frames of reference. He demanded that I produce sources. I produced a perfectly good source, and he then denied it.
This problem needs to be dealt with. Here is the relevant passage from the discussion page. Meanwhile, he is still continually reverting all the edits that I make to the article.
It should be obvious to any impartial observer that FyzixFighter's objection to the references that I provided was totally specious. This guy has been following me around for over a year. Since I started, he hasn't done a single physics edit that hasn't been for the purpose of undermining what I have been trying to do. I do hope that you can help to sort this problem out once and for all. David Tombe ( talk) 10:43, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
I am extremely concerned about aspects of the Scientology case at the arbcom, and would like to appeal it. My basic concern is that I am worried that, in an attempt to try to make the decision not seem one-sided, people were wrongly singled out for censure for minor problems, and sanctions were imposed on users based on insufficient or at times non-existent evidence of wrongdoing.
Would you prefer I submit this appeal via e-mail, write up the issues here, write it up on a user subpage and link you to it, or what? Phil Sandifer ( talk) 02:31, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Email me and let's discuss it. This will be a major undertaking for me, obviously, and a task I don't take lightly. -- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 03:04, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi, does a topic ban imply that one cannot post (not even on other topics) on user talk pages where the topic happens to be mentioned, including your own, as an admin claims? Regards, Guido den Broeder ( talk, visit) 09:54, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Taken quite literally, that seems like an overly broad interpretation. I don't know which admin you are referring to, nor where, though, so this should not be taken as a direct response to that.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 14:18, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
It looks terrible! Please remove ASAP.
CompuHacker (
talk)
19:30, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
P.S. If it was Jimbo himself, please be merciful!
CompuHacker (
talk)
19:30, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Hello dear Jimbo, my IP adress is blocked because a mistake, I`m a innocet user, but Drini hates Jehova's Witnesses users, and he is a proscriptor and a very bad enemy of us. I want, please, the desblock in spanish wikiquote, because I`m working constructuvely. Can you Speak with Drini the Ip's policeman an say him I'm innocent an I`m not a vandal? Thank you very much. -- 87.220.31.209 ( talk) 14:56, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Hello Jimbo, I wait for a response. Thanks. -- 87.220.31.14 ( talk) 21:04, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
General note for everybody: Drini is a steward who has confirmed that the above IP belongs to a sockpuppeteer. Griffinofwales ( talk) 02:55, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm not a sockpuppeteer. Drini hates Jehovah's Witnesses users because he likes Maya's gods. I was working constructively but he hates Bible quotations in the proyect. If I'm writing here is because I'm innocent. I want the desblock. -- 87.220.31.238 ( talk) 10:25, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm not a vandal, I want unblock because I'm innocent. -- 87.220.31.238 ( talk) 17:58, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm innocent, I'm not a vandal, I'm workimg constructively but Drini hates Jehova's Witnesses users, these are my last contibutions: Do you think I'm working constructively in the project when I'm editing pages like John Quincy Adams, Peter Hamilton Raven, Jane Goodall? obviously I'm not a vandal. -- 87.220.30.124 ( talk) 11:31, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Is a requirement that administrators be tolerant, Drini it is not, therefore you must to expell him from Wikiquote.-- Oo 19 oo ( talk) 12:05, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Can you understand now? I'm a innocent editor. -- Oo 19 oo ( talk) 11:36, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm not a wandal. I want the unblock in spanish wikiquote. I'm innocent. Are you going to speek with Drini for the unblock? -- 87.220.31.154 ( talk) 16:17, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
I want Jimbo talks with this administrator for the unblock. -- 87.220.31.154 ( talk) 16:28, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
I want the unblock now. -- 87.220.31.154 ( talk) 16:19, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
I have the IP blocked there, then I can not to speak there. This is the Jimbo Wales page. He is an administrator and he can to speak with this another administrator for the unblock. -- 87.220.31.154 ( talk) 16:26, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
This problem can to end if Jimbo speeks for my unblock. Is very simply. -- 87.220.31.154 ( talk) 16:42, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi, Jimmy Wales.
I'm from the portuguese Wikipedia where some users criticize the featured articles only because they have red links. You could answer if we can or not criticize red links in featured articles or lists, only by changing the layout? What is your opinion?
Regards, ⇨ HotWikiBR msg 13:44, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
minus 10 points for spelling his name wrong, but I'm pretty sure a FA shouldn't have many (if any) redlinks PXK T /C 13:46, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
I can sympathize with the people objecting to ArbCom's Scientology performance. Rather than solve the issue by helping create an excellent article and protecting it, they crudely eliminate one side of the argument and leave the article in the unrestrained hands of the other side. I have recently been topic banned for a year from Prem Rawat articles. A quick read of the evidence I've gathered on my talk page, heading "ArbCom decision", will demonstrate that this was an absurd miscarriage of justice. And their one year ban of Rumiton beyond belief. [14] If you haven't time to read it, please let me know. I tried to email you but it keeps getting bounced. Thanks. Momento ( talk) 06:38, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
The following is from m:User talk:Jimbo Wales and posted on request of the writer by weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 15:15, 1 June 2009 (UTC).
Hello Jimbo,
As I am unable to post at en:Wikipedia, and email results in an error message, I am posting this here.
I have been banned from en:Wikipedia by the local arbcom without explanation or evidence of wrongdoing. I wish to appeal this ban, to see my rights restored in full, my block log cleared per WP:BLP as it contains erroneous accusations of legal threats, and aggressive hounders dealt with.
Let me know if you want to hear my case. I am an editor in good standing on various other wiki projects, and have always contributed to Wikipedia in good faith.
Kind regards, Guido den Broeder 14:35, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
After a brief review of recent events, and familiarity with past events, I decline at this time to hear your case.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 15:56, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
Ciao, Jimbo. There's recently been a concerted effort to clean up the encyclopaedia's much maligned coverage of Objectivism. I realise that you generally prefer not to comment on this topic, but rumours are a-swirling that senior figures in the Objectivist movement have been in contact with you voicing concerns and trying to influence matters. If it's not too much trouble, could you clarify whether this is something you are concerned with or that should be left entirely to the editors of the articles in question? Mahalo, Skomorokh 16:42, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
for making Wikipedia possible. Cheers, Dloh cierekim 22:10, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
Mr. Wales, I am having an issue with some administrators whom I feel are punishing me for disagreeing with them by blocking an IP address I was editing with (discussion here, and abusing the term wikilawyering to broadly dismiss my complaints about administrator decisions that are contrary to both the guidelines and the spirit of Wikipedia. They are also trying to suppress my complaints about heavy-handed and excessive use of restrictive tools by maintaining a block. I will attempt to address this as briefly as possible for your input.
While not logged in, I accused another user, on his user talk, of not paying attention while reverting one of my edits, in a manner that could be considered a harassment; the user responded to each of my comments and his only specific complaint (which he did not express initially) was he took the mocking that he was not paying attention as a personal attack. He never asked me to leave him alone, but without notifying me posted an RFP to get his user page protected, claiming "IPs harassing". I could no longer speak to him on his user page and had no desire to, however at WP:RFP, I [ contested the indefinite semi-protection] placed on his page, as it was unwarranted (only one IP, mine, for months in his page history) and contrary to policy (pp must be for heavy continuous vandalism, and indefinite pp must follow previous pp) and would prevent other IPs from notifying him that he improperly reverted their edits.
After I contested the indefinite page protection, the same administrator that issued the protection blocked me for seven days for "harassment/personal attacks".
I feel that I was blocked by the administrator for challenging his page protection, even though I used the proper channel on the RFP page. I was was blocked for seven days instead of the recommended 24 hours, officially for harassing one user (in four comments in under thirty minutes, with no prior history of harassment, unconstructive edits, or bad faith behavior). I felt that this was unwarranted and excessive and I "threatened" to contest the administrator's decision with my account (this account) if he did not unblock me (I expressily promised to leave the other editor alone).
I then filled out an appeal for unblocking template (saying again I would leave the other editor alone and citing numerous guidelines that I feel clearly indicate the block was excessivly heavy handed) and was denied the appeal, one of the primary reasons given that the editor had asked me to leave him alone and I didn't, which wasn't true (again he never asked me to leave him alone, he want straight to page protection).
I appealed again and was accused of "wikilawyering" and arguing that two admins were wrong and I was right (about being blocked contrary to guidelines?), told that I had made a threat of harassment (my vow to contest the administrator's decision), and there was no reason to believe my behavior would change (despite my repeat promises to leave the other editor alone and only question the administrator's actions).
Again I feel I am being outright punished (and blocks must not be used for punishment according to blocking policy) for disagreeing with an administrator and questioning his decisions. I will end by citing Wikipedia:Administrator_conduct#Administrator_conduct "editors are free to question or to criticize administrator actions" and your own statement "I want to dispel the aura of "authority" around the position [of administratorship]".
I'm sorry I wrote so much, thank you for your time and I value your input in these circumstances.
edit: I feel I should clarify I don't care about being blocked per se and I will accept that this account will probably be blocked for "block dodging"; what bothers me is administrators too quickly and excessively issuing blocks and page protections; I feel these actions are contrary to the nature of Wikipedia as they stifle and alienate good users who make isolated mistakes. Some guy ( talk) 05:32, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Jimmy,
Can we get an update from the horse's mouth on where we are with Flagged Revisions for BLPs, and what the approximate ETA is? If you still have the authority to do policy by fiat, and you do believe in protecting BLPs, why can't we just get it done with? If there is some technical hitch we're waiting on Brion to sort out, we can still make it policy, and just leave it pending till Brion turns on the light switch. That would give people time to go over to that Sandbox wiki to experiment and learn, and to let us begin hashing out who gets "approver" status and how.
The recent disgusting fiasco at Catherine Crier was repugnant. Go read the history, and use your magic status to go look at the Oversighted revisions, then answer me: if you have the ability to unilaterally enforce policy, why haven't you yet in the wake of this kind of crap? How much longer are we going to have to wait? If this costs us a couple of old-school hardline "FREE WIKI" editors, good riddance. If it costs us 1,000: Good riddance. Some things are more important than others.
I'm being bold and formatting this to separate Jimmy's reply from others. I consider the section headings part of my comment proper; do not remove them unless you're Jimmy himself. rootology/ equality (Signature time stamp removed by me under WP:IAR; this can be removed as a section by Jimmy if he does not want it here--I will restore any other removal, or Archival Bot removal; this was posted June the First.)
I think we are simply waiting now on Brion. He has suggested "before Wikimania". I hope that's right.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 10:35, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Some potatoes
The best sack of potatoes | ||
For creating Wikipedia |
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Abce2 ( talk • contribs)
To make the best chips | ||
For cooking up Wikipedia |
The Wet Trout Award | ||
For coming up with Wikipedia |
I would hate to be Jimbo in the sense that I'm sure anytime he logs on it's like You have new messages because of the many messages he gets that are not relevant to him (like this one... Sorry, Mr. Wales!). Should we make a banner up top and divide it? I'm suggesting:
This is the talk page for Jimbo Wales. Please categorize your message into the following categories: |
Thank-yous, smiles, WikiLove, WikiHugs, or other messages of admiration (something someone else thinks of)
Please note that Mr. Wales does not get involved in content dispute, blocks, or other... bla, bla.
Maybe Mr. Wales has some input? Thank you. — Mr. E. Sánchez (that's me!) What I Do / What I Say 21:15, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm really, REALLY sorry to request your intervention in an arbitration case, I honestly believe the committee is making a mistake. I was recently topic banned from editing Scientology articles as a result of the second arbitration case on that subject, for edits I made before the first case. I've contributed numerous quality images to the project, shaped up several challenging articles, haven't violated the terms of or been blocked because of the first case, nor have I been involved in any edit warring so I really don't understand why a topic ban out of the blue is necessary.
Please also note that the arbcom imposed a blanket set of topic bans in this case, including editors who weren't involved in the first case and had even stopped editing prior to it. (For example the first case was May 2008, User:Orsini stopped editing in 10/2007, and was one of the recently topic banned.) Here's the case: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Scientology Anynobody( ?) 02:16, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
I second Anynobody's request -- Jimbo, this is a case you really need to look into, because it attracted a lot of attention and the decision of the Arbitration Committee simply is not one that holds up under examination. If you saw this edit on a user talk page -- a user suggesting to a foul-mouthed vandal that they have a "problem" they should "get over" -- would it lead you to say "Wow, that user must be such a problem editor that we must skip all the customary dispute resolution steps and hit them with a topic-ban of indefinite duration"? Would you come to the conclusion that this edit -- also completely unrelated to Scientology -- justifies an immediate and indefinite topic-ban from Scientology? I don't think you would, and yet that represents about 20 percent of the evidence presented to justify the topic-ban. It's not clear exactly what went on, but a fair and just Arbitration was not it. -- Antaeus_Feldspar ( talk) 22:55, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
This case was discussed on the The Colbert Report. Jehochman Talk 02:01, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
For how long? i'm talking about the information related to the location the editor was and another information that can be used in sockpuppet investigations. RB etihw atar ( talk) 22:49, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
File:Wales on millionaire.jpg. Godfather of reggae indeed. ~ fl 10:43, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
Hey Jimbo you rock!! Can you sign my guestbook here's the link-- P-Real DA deal ( talk) 18:42, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Moved thread to WT:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement. Griffinofwales2 ( talk) 15:49, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Thread is now closed. User:Unfrayed has been banned for being a sockpuppet of User:Jsmith 51389. Griffinofwales ( talk) 22:42, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Did I miss something or did someone oversight/hide edits by SqueakBox? rootology ( C)( T) 00:14, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Here is the sequence, and you can see the edits by diffing across the missing edits. [15]. The first edit is Antaeus Feldspar ( talk · contribs) which was accidentally saved while logged out. SqueakBox commented a few times, and then I replaced the IP with "Antaeus Feldspar".
Your friendly Outer Party member, John Vandenberg ( chat) 05:05, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Jimbo, a few months ago you indicated things like the JasonR desysopping would be best addressed directly to you [16]. I was wondering if you could look at BradPatrick ( talk · contribs). It appears Danny ( talk · contribs) sysopped him [17] without comment in 2006, presumably in the course of his employment. Since he hasn't been employed by the Foundation for some time now, and never went through RFA, and since Danny is no longer a steward, could you look into the matter and act or advise on where I should go next? Thanks. MBisanz talk 04:23, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Looks like he hasn't done any admin actions for more than 2 years, so this sounds reasonable. I just pinged him in email for his opinion, will let you know when I know something.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 12:31, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Hi there, Jimbo. I was just wondering if you have any intent to update Wikipedia's design anytime soon, because I live and breathe this kind of thing (interface/website design), and have been thinking about the kind of design philosophy that would help the editing experience in particular be able to reach people of the third-world, and be accessible/inviting to non-tech-savvy users in general... (without developing an interface that requires endless bandwidth). And, of course, the look of the site. Anyway, you can see what I do
here (software design stuff at the bottom), and if you're curious, I can mock up a photoshop comp (preview) so you can see if you wanna mess around with the idea. If you do, I would do all this for free until work actually gets started (in other words, free during the design phase), then just collect some dough upon completion. (so you understand I wouldn't be trying to get myself into something that I would try to make drag on for eternity, for more dough)
Otherwise, if you aren't interested, don't bother replying (waste of time); you can just delete this off your page. (btw, my email is dario@deefrag.com)--
Dario D. (
talk)
21:05, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Greetings. There seems to be some disagreement on whether it is acceptable to use Associated Press images in Wikipedia articles. Of course we don't want to get sued. I remember that you had previously taken action on this issue at File:Il-76 shootdown.jpg, so I wanted to make you personally aware of what's going on with File:Corralesx.jpg, it's unsuccessful nomination for deletion, and its first and second (current) appearances at Deletion Review. I have e-mailed Mike Godwin and left a message here on his talk page. If you would be willing to make some sort of a statement, it would help us to sort this whole thing out. Thanks, – Quadell ( talk) 15:23, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
It seems to me that the purpose of the Ignore All Rules pillar is to allow users to protect Wikipedia from major problems (e.g. lawsuits) when bureaucratic process gets in the way. I think the image has to be deleted, and I think everyone who understands our policy agrees. The trouble is, there are enough active admins who disagree that this is rapidly devolving into a wheel war. – Quadell ( talk) 21:02, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
This part is important: At 2PM, I set my mind to get a free photo of this man. By 2:30:37, I had one. "Jimmy, thank you for the email. Diego Corrales was a good friend of mine and you are more than welcome to use any photos of mine you would like for Wikipedia. I only ask for a credit in my name." I emailed back to confirm which license he's ok with, and I'll be able to upload it for him later today. This is why I say that that calling this image "replaceable" is correct: it was replaceable. Is 30 minutes of work too much work? No, it is not. That's part of the research process. We don't cut and paste from other sources because it would be faster. We do the legwork. And we're proud of that.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 21:37, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Wow, way to cut the Gordian Knot, Jimbo! I have uploaded the photo to Commons as File:Diego Corrales.jpg. Hurrah! – Quadell ( talk) 22:31, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo, in two years of looking for solutions to the BLP issues have finally stumbled upon an idea that hasn't been raised before. Basically it's this:
This would require developer assistance, and require a bit of structure to make sure the ability doesn't get misused. An initial draft proposal is at my blog. [18] Am interested in your thoughts. Durova Charge! 20:54, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
What really needs to be sorted out are the hard core minority of vociferous admins who are devising their own unique interpretations of BLP, such as out of sight special protection forums, dead tree notability or time limited notability, and 2 hour deletion discussions, and applying these across the pedia as if they were policy. MickMacNee ( talk) 16:48, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't know how anyone can claim Wikipedia is not doing its upmost to protect living people. Take a look at the recently closed DRV for our ex-arbitrator David Boothroyd, who had an article for three years until mysteriously dissappearing once a bit of scandal broke. The new streamlined BLP enforcement process is now well established - throw Afd out the window and delete an article out of process (twice by the same admin no less) citing 'BLP', and when there is not 80% support at DRV that the closing admin was totally out of order, and he continues to be blissfully oblivous to the 14 people telling him he screwed up (not a big majority supposedly when compared to 16 people chiming in to carry on debating the Afd, while the article is invisible, and ignoring the fact the venue was DRV not AFd), it can then be claimed all is well with the world as there is no consensus to change the 'status quo'. It's a joke. It's no wonder The Register takes the piss mercilessly, it has ample source material. MickMacNee ( talk) 18:59, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Whatever happened to "helping the Internet not suck"? Have Wikipedia's administrators come to the conclusion that "we help the internet suck a lot, so we should go away"? Content pages should not be NOINDEXED, that's tantamount to taking Wikipedia's articles offline. I don't even like the idea of NOINDEXing other pages--if I google something, and it's on the Internet, I expect to find it--though I guess it's necessary in some circumstances. I suppose that NOINDEXing a few troublesome bios won't be a big deal (as long as they aren't particularly well-known). But I'm afraid this will lead to a creeping NOINDEXing of all BLPs. 67.187.92.105 ( talk) 01:53, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Sorry to pull the quote out like this, but you're a member of the Board, which has ultimate control over the priorities of the Foundation. Have you tried saying "this is more important than planning a vacation in Buenos Aires, focus on this first"? -- MZMcBride ( talk) 22:06, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
I wonder if the WMF issued a global top-down policy--by fiat--that local projects must remove any content that "may legally endanger or expose" the WMF, would endanger their Sec 230 protection? Just tossing this out there, as a possible way that BLP can be given bullets via the WMF. rootology ( C)( T) 19:36, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
What do you think would help, Jimbo? لenna vecia 18:14, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
"The way to satisfy both the Section 230 issue and the BLP issue would be for the Foundation to do the same thing it did with non-free images." -- Thank you. I'm not always the most to the point person, or I'm too to the point, but this is exactly the point I was trying to make. rootology ( C)( T) 13:31, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Hey Jimbo. I'm curious what you make of the Arbcom member/ leftist politician violating conflict of interest policies and sock puppeteering? And now we also have admins working aggressively to delete the article about this politician that was KEPT in 2005. I thought notability doesn't expire? Does it expire when the politician and Arbcom member are caught undermining Wikipedia's integrity and after there is substantial coverage in reliable independent sources? Shouldn't this be something we work hard to root out? Arbcom seems to be very sick, and it's distressing that the problem of those engaging in censorship and bias goes all the way to the most powerful editors on Wikipedia. I guess this explains why they're so aggressive in supporting the NPOV violations and POV pushers going after anyone trying to balance our Obama coverage with notable controversies and criticisms? ChildofMidnight ( talk) 00:43, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Sam Blacketer resigned, which is enough I think. CoM, you and others will not be allowed to slander that man by writing an unbalanced biography of him in mainspace. Mainspace is not for punishing people. The community has approved my approach to this problem by confirming the deletion at WP:DRV. Jehochman Talk 09:22, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Did you get my email about a functionary using an undisclosed sock to edit for money on behalf of businessmen? YellowMonkey ( cricket calendar poll!) 02:56, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Given how this seems to be coming up more and more there should be a community discussion (RFC?) on the whys and hows behind this and to come up with a community-endorsed stance on this. I think I'll draft up an RFC. Since "paid editing" in and of itself is not a blockable offense, and may or may not be frowned upon depending on how it's handled. Frowned upon = widely, I know some people are totally against some, some don't care, and I'm in the middle of I don't care why someone writes a "good article", so long as they understand the minute it's posted they have no ownership stake or claim over it on this site. rootology ( C)( T) 17:48, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
User talk:Jimbo Wales/Archive 47#Please help I know you're very busy, and I'm guessing the thread was archived by a bot before you could render a judgement, but to sum up in case you need a quick refresher:
I've always used all pertinant information from what we consider reliable sources in my edits. Articles about Scientology feature in depth coverage of its negative aspects. We would have to ignore the bulk of what the sources say about Scientology if we set out not to say anything "bad" about it. For example a Time article called The Thriving Cult of Greed and Power obviously is going to say things Scientologists don't like, and might just make anyone citing it look anti-Scientology. (Another more current example is the debate in France over banning Scientology) If there are reliable sources out there which say good things about Scientology I'm just as happy to include them as well. (I haven't found any which AREN'T dominated by negative aspects though.)
I think the ARBCOM believes that by topic banning anyone labelled a POV pusher it will somehow end any future arguments. However as long as the sources concentrate on the negatives of Scientology, Scientologists editing from home will work at removing them and calling anyone who cites them a POV pusher. I'm agnostic and have no personal interest in defaming Scientology, I just think our articles should reflect what valid sources say good or bad. Anynobody( ?) 02:36, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
This is overdue, probably: Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Paid Editing. Given that this (and related WP:COI issues) seem to be coming up more and more, I've launched this basic RFC. We've never had an actual community discussion or mandate about this. Please review the statements, leave yours, endorse as you see fit. Should make for an interesting and enlightening discussion.
Jimmy, would you be willing to leave a statement on the RFC itself? rootology ( C)( T) 19:31, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. But, er, what is biased about:
"An RFC on the notion of paid editing. NOTE: Today, as of the launch time of this RFC, this is not a blockable offense under any policy, or to my knowledge against any explicit policy, but dances around WP:COI in some ways."
And
Whats the question?
Is Paid Editing a problem? Is it fine? Is it against policy? What policy? What should be the response?
Desired outcome
A start toward consensus on what the community view actually is on the matter of "paid editing".
Since there is no policy against it today I left the wording as wide-open as possible. "What do you think?" is the tone. I'd actually ask you to not do such blocks, as you're still of course bound by policy as much as anyone. Your recent block of Petrosianii was for sockpuppetry, not paid editing. Seicer ( talk · contribs), an admin, actually stated here that he is paid to edit content. Are you going to block him? Such a block would have no basis in policy and out of policy blocks have no standing, for any admin. rootology ( C)( T) 21:45, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Jimmy, I really don't mean this to be a dickish question, but the way this is unraveling is highly confusing. I started the RFC to simply see what everyone thought, as there has never been a frank public discussion of this before to see what the community actually thought. Your views have always been clear. Like I said in my RFC statement, I've always been ambivalent and more interested in the quality of the content rather than caring who wrote it--a paid author, Satan, it's all the same for me. Is it good, NPOV, notable, etc.? The way the RFC is spinning out is frankly the exact opposite of what I expected. I was figuring I'd get some supports, we'd see 20 statements in various forms "against", and that would be that. Not what is happening, but the opposite.
But I have to ask-- are you going to block Seicer and Nichalp for paid editing? rootology ( C)( T) 16:10, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
(od)That seems like a rather harsh comment against rootology, Mister Wales - I can't see how the RFC was written in a biased manner - hell, it's opening lines were shorter than most RFCs to begin with. Skinny87 ( talk) 17:06, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
For what its worth I fully agree with Jimbos stance on this. To my mind this deserves a zero tolerance policy. We are assuming in good faith that paid editing will amount to peacockery at the most. In reality the money is not in trying to spruce up the notability of some borderline companies, the money is in removing negative information about some of the very affluent subjects we already cover. The money is in adjusting policy, it is in removing 'trouble makers'. While 'outsiders' with COI editing articles are of only limited danger because of their limited areas of interest and unsophisticated approach to wikipedia, once we establish a culture of paid editing, this will inevitably spill over to administrative actions and policy formulation. Unomi ( talk) 18:55, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Thanks rootology for notifying me of this thread. To clarify my rather vague statement I made earlier, I resigned as an administrator in April to pursue my off-WP writings and photography, along with my full-time job as a designer and coordinator for a private university. I had a lack of time in dealing with the usual drama and ongoings at WP, and felt it best to resign the bit' and (now) edit semi-frequently.
With that, I don't edit much anymore because of potential conflicts of interests with four very large web-sites that I manage. I spend hundreds of hours a year researching various topics and then photographing them, and I rarely have the time to copyedit every one of them into WP. It also eliminates a potential COI when dealing with other editors.
As for my function at the university, one of my tasks is to update, periodically, our university's article. I haven't done any clean sweeps nor removals; I only add content or modify content with information that is sourced directly from our publications and web-sites, or from accompanying articles and publications. It's not paid advocacy because thus far I have not advocated for or against anything, and is only to plug in information where none frankly existed. The article sucked and was sorely lacking content, to be honest. That's very different than one running an operation for external clients to purely advocate a certain fringe POV upon a certain and dedicated article, and that's not what I am doing or advocating for.
One year later, not one individual has come up against my potential COI because I strive not to have a bias to or against the university. I've authored numerous GA's and have done a lot of work for many articles on WP, and not once has the speckle of COI come up until now -- and after my own admission. I'd like to keep it that way. seicer | talk | contribs 00:07, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 40 | ← | Archive 45 | Archive 46 | Archive 47 | Archive 48 | Archive 49 | Archive 50 |
Hi, sorry for bother you, i know you always have a lot to do, but i need help, im searching for justice. In wikipedia spanish, I have contributed very well for more than 2 month, at first i without knowing did copyvio, but they told me what to do, and i was doing it the best i could, as i always try to do. However, since a few days ago, i have had a few problems: a user named amadis: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usuario:Amad%C3%ADs ; have been erasing my contributions, saying: "you only do copyvio, just put cites of the press or the radio, o references from the radio". the second part is true:i have a pentium III-im from peru- and i go to the university so i have no time, and also my computer doesnt support well the press-webs because its to heavy for my 56 of memory.So i have to go with somre review of press of RFI: http://www.rfi.fr/actues/articles/113/article_11794.asp; because theyre a different news that i copy to wordpad, make a resume, and edit to wikipedia, and also I say what the newspaper says as i have seen before. And I dont do anymore copyvio, it wasnt my intention, i was copying a lots of sentences from article of WSJ, and I didnt referenced it well but they told me how and i do it now! But Amadis says i that its not enough, but once a Gons make a edi1t of an edit i did so i copy her the way she reference the article as you can see here: http://es.wikipedia.org/?title=The_New_York_Times&diff=25237585&oldid=25228150; its very similar to my last contribution: http://es.wikipedia.org/?title=Citigroup&diff=26076641&oldid=26072650 and i didnt do copyvio, and instead of helping me or go and look that he is right, he just say "momoelf is suspicious for copyvio" and erase it at once, and also say that that is a press review what is false its a new of WSJ like people do in a lot of wikipedia article. I told the library Lucien: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usuario_Discusi%C3%B3n:Lucien_leGrey#Hola_lucien but he didnt give me and answer, so i dont know what to do, i have proof of what im saying, ive been doing the same as i have seen, i just want to contributed but they erase everything i do, plz help this are my contribution: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Especial:Contribuciones/Momoelf; i havent vandalized instead i have created article always with references, i do sometimes only a few lines, because i think that little by little things go bigger and i dont have a lot of time also. Plz if im doing something wrong tell me and i wont repeat it, i always ask and nobody answer me i have a lot of proofs about that. Here is the user, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lucien_leGrey ; nobody dare to answer anything, they didnt give me any proof the way i do it, they just say you are banned you are banned you dont deserve any explanations.
I just want to contribute, i feel useful when im making wikipedia better plz answer me-- Momoelf ( talk) 17:37, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
This user has now been blocked indefinitely. Griffinofwales ( talk) 19:10, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
The user has received 4 blocks. 1 for violating the etiquette rule, 1 for trolling, and 2 for block evasion, the last one being indef. Griffinofwales ( talk) 19:16, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
King Jimbo I, can I be your Duke? Make Download! your Earl, and Alf your Lord. Rory ( talk) 07:23, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Hello. I'm writing to you as a last resort, after having tried all other methods to solve this "dispute". I've left a short message on the help desk, but since that page is mostly for questions on how to use Wikipedia, I haven't elaborated the complaint there.
I'd like to officially register a complaint against various administrators and community members on Wikipedia for disruption, censorship, vandalism, biased POV pushing, and indiscriminate banning and blocking of other "non-clan" users who try to edit the article.
These users specifically include Angr, Andrew Carnie, Kwami, Taivo, Garik, dab, LingNut and rjanag.
I'd request you to have a look at the talk page archives of the article, as well as the article's own edit history, but I'm also summing up the discussion as briefly as possible for you.
The dispute basically is about the inclusion of certain schools of thought in the study of linguistics, which these above people (as admins or users or community members), claim "is not linguistics". They claim that "there is nothing called post-structural linguistics" and that the given title is "made up" and "imagined", when in fact the Google books' results and various other sources display that it has a long history of almost three to four decades. They also claim that that thinkers like Jacques Derrida, Michel Foucault, and Roland Barthes, are not "linguists" -- who were in fact a part of this "post-structural linguistics" movement.
These above users have also gone ahead and deleted and indefinitely locked a sourced article that was created on post-structural linguistics without the discussion being completed. There have been sources provided for this from day one, but they've been choosing to ignore it.
As far as consensus goes, even a blind person might be able to see that there are enough people on the community's talk page as well as on the AFD discussion of post-structural linguistics, who support the inclusion of the topic. These users, who are biased and are abusing their power as wiki admins, are ignoring and deleting perfectly well sourced material.
This, therefore, in my view, amounts to censorship, vandalism, and POV pushing. By not allowing any mention of post-structural linguistics in the main article, or even a seperate page for the sub-discipline, they are keeping an entire body of information out of this encyclopedia. This is not just offensive violation of the encyclopedia, it is dangerous. The fact that they have indiscriminately banned a couple of us for protesting (and threatening others), shows that they are also dishonest and are grossly misusing their positions as administrators.
Linguistics is an important topic, and I care about it, which is why I've been involved with this fruitless debate with the community for so many long months. I also care about other articles on wikipedia, where I may be unable to participate and comment, but which also I fear might be endangered by such proliferation and misuse by the same people. These articles under such administrators are also under threat, and since I feel Wikipedia is inherently a good initiative, and is a well intentioned project that has had a good impact on the cyberworld, I think my efforts are not being wasted. I have nothing to gain or lose from this either way (whether I'm blocked or can edit the encyclopedia is of not much personal significance to me), but I do feel that as an "Internet citizen", it is part of my responsibility to make sure that online debates and initiatives are not colonised like this by a bunch of clannish bullies.
I trust your judgment on this problem; I don't know whether you are convinced about what I'm trying to convey: that my position on this is in fact NPOV and that the one being endorsed by these administrators is not. But I request you to look into the matter and hope you see my point. I strongly feel that action needs to be taken on the guilty admins and users that I've mentioned above. I would even like to make a request that these users are permanently banned and blocked, because until they continue editing the encyclopedia, they will be disruptive (whether they admit it or not, or whether they try to pretend that it is actually others who are doing so).
Thanks. Most sincerely, Supriya (identified as 'Supriyya' on the linguistics' talk page). Tsupre ( talk) 15:57, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
I just wanted to let you know that this kind response from you did not go to waste. The presentation and panel we had on Wikipedia for journalists and bloggers was a success, and today my slides are featured on the front page of Slideshare. Thanks again for your help, Steven Walling (talk) 21:19, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
How is that working out? rootology ( C)( T) 03:46, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
...Although it is the newspapers that quoted Wikipedia that are the real embarrassments, but that is besides the point. Student's Wikipedia Hoax Fools Newspapers ( Maurice Jarre obit). How much longer until WP:FLAGGED goes live? -- 64.85.220.232 ( talk) 16:32, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
Here are my three reverts revert 1, revert 2, revert 3 which are prompted by a fundamentally unreasonable editor. I want to test this principle that someone with a reasonable expert grasp of the subject will be blocked or banned for 3RR, in preference to someone who simply cannot grasp the basic principles of reasonable discourse. Peter Damian ( talk) 21:49, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
I thought you'd like to know that Pete Forsyth is on the radio tomorrow morning repping WikiProject Oregon. -->David Shankbone 00:16, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
I would like, if I may, to draw your attention to what I believe is a rather uncivil "rant" by WP admin User:Scarian.-- Myosotis Scorpioides 13:55, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo. I see someone had created the guestbook for you. Just to say, I've added a little to make it look better. I just wanted to ask if you would like me or someone else to add {{User:Jackrm/ABs}} to it? So that more people would know about your guestbook and hopefully sign it. Just a suggestion, I think you should add a link on your userpage if you haven't already. That would also help people know about it.
Also; would you like me to add pretty flowers and ponies? Just as a little design for fun?
I signed it first! Yay! :) Ross Rhodes ( T C) Sign! 21:20, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
The comic strip is here. [1] ☯ Zenwhat ( talk) 15:42, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo, I'm just wanting to say that I remember a user saying that the chinese section of the logo had an extra dot on it or something, and then someone replied saying there were many mistakes on the logo. Have these mistakes been fixed? If not, when are they going to be fix if ever? Ross Rhodes ( T C) Sign! 13:01, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
Your page isn't supposed to be protected. You even said so! Someone protected it. Why? Stop him! 99.29.236.85 ( talk) 02:07, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
HELP! Manager of Russian Wikipedia Andrei Romanenko conducts dishonest game. He initiated elimination by any ways Arahau from Wikipedia (articles are written in 11 languages, their removal today has begun). Arahau is an a priori constructed language created by Russian writer Ivan Karasev in 2006. The Arahau language is polysynthetic and typologically active. This is unlike most constructed languages but not atypical of engineered languages. Each vowel designates a noun, and consonants designate grammatic formants. This system often lets Arahau produce compact speech. Arahau has been found to have similarities with Basque and Nakh-Dagestanian languages. Neemus ( talk) 23:08, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
I've just been checking my subpages to realise you had signed my guestbook. Thank you very much for doing that, I really do appreciate that. Ross Rhodes ( T C) Sign! 18:14, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
Feel free to look at some of my subpages. I like people to know more about me, especially great and honouable people. Just by looking at my userbox page, you'd probably know more about me than some of my friends. Ross Rhodes ( T C) Sign! 21:22, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
I have a guestbook now can you please sign it that would be the coolest heres the link sign my guestbook P-Real DA deal ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 03:24, 12 May 2009 (UTC).
Could I create it for you? I mean, only if you want. Ross Rhodes ( T C) Sign! 21:31, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Please say yes!I would love to make another guestbook! Ross Rhodes ( T C) Sign! 16:36, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
Hello there, Mr. Wales, and greetings from the land of Benson! I am Saberwolf116, the (self-proclaimed) Uncyclopedian ambassador to Wikipedia. Anyways, i've got an extremely strange request for you.
On Uncyclopedia, we have this thing called "Imperial Colonization". We take our most popular articles that are terrible in every since of the word, and rewrite them as a collaborative group. Anyways, our colonization this week happens to be Wikipedia. Seeing as how you founded Wikipedia, we were wondering if you might want to contribute a few ideas on the talk page.
Thanks for the time, that's all for now. Now if you'll excuse me, my comrades at Uncyclopedia await me.
Cheers, Saberwolf116 ( talk) 22:21, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
I noticed that wikipedia fundraising for yesterday and today have been very low. In an emergency of course you can always do those top banners. However you also might want to consider asking for funding from the U.S. gov, with the expectation that the U.S. gov, would have special admin priveleges for blocking, editing, etc. TeH nOmInAtOr ( talk) 13:06, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
I don't know if you care or not, but a couple of your accounts aren't merged to your SUL. [2] Just wanted to let you know. Cheers. Thingg ⊕ ⊗ 02:42, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Hello Jimbo,
Back in 2004, on the behalf of Wikipedia you signed up for an Amazon Associates account, as part of short-lived fund raising experiment. Four years ago, I wrote a userscript to allow users to bypass the Special:Book Sources page and have ISBN links refer directly to the book source of their choice: User:Lunchboxhero/monobook.js. This userscript is now used by over 800 users.
By default, the books source is amazon and the url includes the Amazon Associates account reference that you got five years ago. Is that account still active, and has this use of this userscript made Wikimedia any money?
Lunchboxhero ( talk) 13:58, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi, Jimmy. I've had some ongoing disagreements ( [3] [4]) with others over the Verifiability policy. My practice is to remove any information from articles that is not sourced, including things like birth dates, places of birth etc. Some have argued that that sources exist for them on the Internet that can be found with a Google search, that in some cases, the information is at sites linked to in the References sections, and that this makes the information in question sourced. Some argue that I can easily find sources for them myself, and that some of the unsourced material I added was in the articles for years, and that they were merely re-adding it after I removed it. The most frequent complaint may be that things like places or dates of birth are not contentious.
I have responded that WP:V requires that information be sourced by having the sources placed explicitly in the article, in the text where it is used, not somewhere else on the Internet or in a Google search, and that placing sources in References sections is only appropriate, according to WP:CS, for undeveloped articles. I pointed out that WP:Burden properly states that the burden of proof is on the editor adding or re-adding the material, not the one who finds it unsourced, and that unsourced material does not gain legitimacy after being in an article for some length of time, as the false material in the John Seigenthaler article was in it for four months before it was noticed, and that whether material is added initially or being re-added after being removed bears no relevance on whether it includes a citation. As to the final point, WP:V states that "any material challenged or likely to be challenged" must be supported by cites and there is your own quote regarding removal of information, "This is true of all information, but it is particularly true of negative information about living persons." My practice is to treat ALL information as requiring sources, and for a number of reasons: First, whether something is "challenged" is subjective. (Hell, I could argue that I'm challenging all such information!) Another is vandalism of the "subtle" sort--that is, vandalism in which editors add or change information that I happen to know is false, or contrary to what a source in the passage indicates, but is not particularly inflammatory, and is only likely to raise a red flag if someone on whose Watchlist that article appears notices the edit. Quite a few times when I photographed these people, for example, I heard complaints from them that their articles contained false information, even on trivial matters like date of birth. Sourcing everything solves this problem, and will help improve Wikipedia's reputation. For this reason, I believe ALL material should be sourced.
I want to know what you think. Am I right to do this? Or should I just let things like dates or places of birth, and other material go without a source? Nightscream ( talk) 02:34, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
"People who remove material realize that it is within their responsibility to confirm that no such sources exist before removing material." No, WP:Burden clearly states otherwise.
"Nightscream avoids talkpage discussion in favor of debate-by-edit-summary and block threats." A lie. Any sincere look at my Edit History shows copious amounts of Talk Page discussion, on both the Talk Pages of articles and other editors, and indeed, I've been corresponding with you on my Talk Page and yours. And last time I checked, after all, this page right here is a Talk Page, and we're having a discussion. Talk Page discussion is for issues in which proper interpretation of policy is in dispute. The removal of unsourced material is not in dispute, but I came here to double-check with Jimmy anyway, just to be sure, and he confirmed my view of WP:V. What I avoid, however, is extended discussion with people such as yourself who do not engage in a discussion in an intellectually honest or civil manner. So far you've stated lies about me on my Talk Page twice, and now again here in misrepresenting my Edit History, which is hardly motivation for me to jump through your flaming hoops. But if you want me to discuss things with you further, I will do so on two conditions: First, you acknowledge (and apologize for) falsely claiming two statements by me that I did not make. Second, that you answer the question I put to you (twice) about the Lazenby info in dispute. If you cannot do this, then I'm disinclined to speak to you further, Peter. Nightscream ( talk) 14:05, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
Yes, editors may object, and more often than not, the ones who've objected use this argument, while ignoring the part about the burden being on them to add sources, as well as the fact, as anyone can see from my editing history, that I often do go looking for sources for uncited material--I simply don't do so all the time, since I don't always have time to do so, and the burden is on them, not I, as that page states. The way I read it, that passage is in conflict, because taken to its logical extent, if an editor who finds unsourced material is always required to find sources or fact tag something all the time, then no burden is placed on those who add or re-add the material in the first place, giving them free rein to add all sorts of material that is not apparently inflammatory, defamatory or negative, while others are forced to clean up after them. You fact tag something, and then what? What if the person who added it in the first place never comes back to do source it? That passage's conflict needs to be resolved, IMO, and simply requiring all material to be sourced when it's added, and by the editor adding it, solves this problem, and would help improve Wikipedia's reputation for reliability. Also, I'm curious, Unomi, how that passage you cited jibes with the quote by Jimmy right below it? Nightscream ( talk) 22:48, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
No, I didn't find it aggressive; no apologies necessary. But as I asked before, how does your prescription of fact tags jibe with Jimmy's quote on the WP:V page? Nightscream ( talk) 15:11, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo! I've got an idea for a new portal and I don't really know who else to suggest it to. I think we should have a portal for the entire Wikimedia Foundation, as there is a lot of things that can be used in it. I'm not aware of anything existing like it at the moment. The closet I could find to it was Portal:Wikipedia. Please say what you think of the idea. Ross Rhodes ( T C) Sign! 16:50, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo,
you are indicated as the owner of Wikipedia Users Group on LinkedIn; however, according to David Gerard it is a spam group. Could you comment on this? A smaller Wikipedia-related group was planning to merge in that group to avoid unnecessary duplication, and are now unsure what to do. -- Tgr ( talk) 16:34, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
LinkedIn has turned all those groups over to us, so people should be able to join no problem.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 16:13, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo! Got another one of my suggestion that I'd like to mention, though this one may take a keen interest of yours. I think there should be a portal on yourself. I know there isn't really many pages on you, but that could change. We could just make subpages like on your biography, etc. Please have your say on this. I'm not good at making portals though I'm sure someone would do it if you want. Ross Rhodes ( T C) Sign! 16:35, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo! About a week ago I left a message here reminding you of a user that pointed out that there was a mistake on the Chinese section of the Wikipedia logo. This has now been archived somewhere in archive 47, though when the user left the message, another user later on replied saying somewhere, "...there's lots of mistakes on the Wikipedia logo that have at some point to be sorted." If this user is right, have these mistakes been sorted? If not, when will they be? -- Ross Rhodes ( T C) Sign! 21:39, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
E aí tudo mais ou menos ? Dbc2004 ( talk) 13:13, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Hello I name sahayfont(thai:สหายฟอนต์) wikipedia Come on as a user to visit a wind advisory. Pleased to know you As a founder you wikipedia Methods for each language to create wikipedia Will favor a more —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sahayfont2 ( talk • contribs) 16:17, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
This question isn't necessarily directed towards Jimbo, but I know a lot of experienced users watch this page too. How should I deal with a user who removes {{ di-no source}} tags from images without a source and doesn't add a source? Obviously, I'm doing something wrong. Apparently, removing these tags isn't considered disruptive enough for restoring the tags to be exempt from WP:3RR. Based on WP:IUP, all images need a source, and I really can't figure out a better way to explain it. Jay32183 ( talk) 09:21, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
At the proposal page Wikipedia talk:Neutrality enforcement we are discussing more NPOV ways of writing for Wikipedia and a user keeps using the phrase and referring to WP:Writing_for_the_enemy. I object to the phrase, and wrote on the talk page (updated slightly): To assume another editor or a reader is an enemy does not assume good faith. Plus saying the word "enemy" brings up visceral negative reaction making it more difficult to write for that negatively visualized person. However, the word "opponent" makes it sound more like the intellectual battle editing Wikipedia often is and is a more respectful term which is more likely to get people thinking in positive terms. I then was told you originated and liked the phrase. If true, I’d like to suggest you think about replacing “writing for the enemy” with “writing for the opponent.” CarolMooreDC ( talk) 02:34, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
I am happy with your suggestion. I am opposed to a model of Wikipedia as a battleground in the war for ideas. I think every editor should write neutrally (as best as he or she can) at all times. I am favorably impressed by the attitude embodied in proposals like this one: Wikipedia:Neutrality enforcement. -- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 14:21, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
I do have a question (actually, more of a concern). I think you have distorted the meaning of the word 'vandalise'. Sure, some people do vandalise Wikipedia pages - in the real and proper sense of the word - but others just tweak things for fun, or to prick pomposity, or to hint at a more serious flaw in an entry. I think it is wrong to call such 'tweakers' vandals. A vandal is in many societies a form of criminal yet many of the so-called Wikipedia vandals are no such thing. 'Vandal' is also an emotive word and should perhaps be reserved for those who fall at the extreme end of the scale i.e. those who recklessly despoil and ruin an otherwise valid and accurate entry. Some thought needs to be given to creating more accurate names and terms on this issue or else you risk irritating and alienating people. Indeed, they might even become the thing they are accused of if goaded long enough. Finally, from a Devil's Advocate position, I think it is bad for language and social progress to distort and twist words. Orwell showed us how this can lead to a form of creeping, pernicious thought control. So besides objecting to the catch-all use of the word 'vandal' on the grounds of grammatical pedantry, I also worry where it might lead, what with CCTV and IP traces. Who knows, in five years time somebody could theoretically be convicted of Wikipedia vandalisation, and possibly imprisoned. One need only reflect upon relatively recent events in Stalin's Russia and contemporary events in China to realise that is not a far-fetched concern. Most of us live in a 'free' world now, but who's to say what might happen in a few years time? The controls and systems currently being introduced via new technology would hand any future dictatorship complete control over our lives. [For example, although I am posting without a user name, I am certain that my comments will be quickly logged, filed and linked to my IP address.] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.16.208.83 ( talk) 16:05, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
But it kept saying "mailer error". Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.233.68.44 ( talk) 05:31, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
You might want to check out Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Bishonen_using_status_as_admin_to_control_others_while_violating_our_civility_policy if you have a moment. Exxolon ( talk) 01:36, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
G'day Jimbo - just by chance I happen to have sent a post to foundation-l about this one a few moments ago, and swung by here to see that you're in blocking mode! I wonder if, given this, you might be inclined to do anything about this, this evening?
Ps. If you're struggling to cope with the backstory of the latest broo ha ha, you should probably at least be informed that the catalyst was a problem with a user who recently became an admin, and, it transpires, had posted your personal details (name, birthdate, address, and information about whom you share your residence with) on IRC, garnered from private access to some sort of electoral database. In all seriousness, the toxic personalities may not be so obvious, and calling folk 'little shits' is far less serious than plagiarism, and the breaching of trust on privacy issues, I reckon... Privatemusings ( talk) 02:57, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Geez, this again? - ALLST✰R▼ echo wuz here @ 04:30, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
PM, to mix two sayings, you're beating a dead horse about the bush. the wub "?!" 10:19, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
False advertising I didn't see any genitalia, shaved or otherwise. Are people confusing an exposed bellybutton and belly button piercing with genitalia per chance? Seems to me there are more serious concerns to get upset about. Like bare nipples. The HORROR!!! ChildofMidnight ( talk) 15:47, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Let us not forget that anything which detracts from creating an environment conducive to the creation of a collaborative encyclopedia inherently detracts from Wikipedia's mission. Could this image offend some people, yes. Is it reasonable to expect such things when visiting a userpage, no. Is this image helpful in any way, no. So where does that leave us? Prodego talk 17:33, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
I've no opinion on the nudity, but I agree that there are more pressing problems. Where are we on Flagged Revisions? PM, your massive energy would be well spent pushing that. rootology/ equality 17:43, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
A few comments here:
Now I really want to resolve this amicably. Privatemusings, I respectfully request that you collapse this thread. Durova Charge! 18:11, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Is Wikipedia a bunch of tattle tales with too much free time, or are we here to edit (and protect) an online encyclopedia? Which is it for crying out loud. JBsupreme ( talk) 21:27, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
it is about having a quality work environment with due respect for others.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 17:18, 22 May 2009 (UTC) Good point. there are more pressing problems -- No one is under an obligation here to work only on the most pressing problems. Sometimes some of us want to address other problems. We're volunteers; we get interested in what we get interested in. Personally, I find it interesting that the pic's defenders have such a puritanical attitude about what the rest of us should be concerning ourselves with when we visit Wikipedia. No one should be ashamed of finding the use of that pic shameful. This is Wikipedia, dammit! We've got a right to be outraged! And I'm not even being ironic about this. There's enough staffing at this place to handle more than one outrage and build up the 'pedia at the same time. In America we have a three-day holiday weekend just starting, and I for one intend to honor the fallen soldiers who died for my right to waste my time by, in part, wasting my time. (And I'm still not being ironic about this.) -- Noroton ( talk) 22:17, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi there Emmette, about the userpage bar, I think the one at the bottom is good enough without having to put another one at the top, especially how I think the one at the top kind of ruins the page's image. Though this is just my opinion. If other users agree with you having it there, then I'll except having it. Ross Rhodes ( T C) Sign! 13:23, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
Ross Rhodes, at first I misunderstood what you meant by "kind of ruins the page's image", I understand now and have fixed it.-- Emmette Hernandez Coleman ( talk) 13:43, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
Jack Merridew removed the userpage bar with the edit summery "-dupe {{userpage}} — too intrusive at top". Jack Merridew would you like to take part in this discussion?-- Emmette Hernandez Coleman ( talk) 17:40, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
Let's remember, Jimbo Wales can override a decision we make about this issue, because this is his userpage-- Emmette Hernandez Coleman ( talk) 17:49, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
Dear Jimbo—I mentioned you and your role WRT ArbCom here. I hope you regard this as in good faith: it was intended as such. Tony (talk) 09:00, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
I find that Wiki's are very helpful. I and other gamers that I know use Wiki for our gaming needs. Thanks Jimbo for creating a user friendly source of information.. DT 129.71.117.210 10:15, 16 May 2009 (archiving timestamp Fram ( talk) 12:40, 26 May 2009 (UTC))
User:Shane91c has given you a bubble tea! Bubble teas promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a bubble tea, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy drinking!
Spread the bubbliness of bubble teas by adding {{ subst:bubble tea}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shane91c ( talk • contribs) May 18, 2009
(archiving timestamp Fram ( talk) 12:40, 26 May 2009 (UTC))
Is this an endorsement of the long absent ideal that any user, from the newly registered user, to the Arbs, up to yourself, are held to identical requirements of adherence to policy? rootology ( C)( T) 02:22, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Jimmy, for what it's worth, I was dismayed when I saw this edit, and wished you'd mentioned 'conduct' rather than 'editors', especially considering the circumstances of the block. Casliber ( talk · contribs) 14:49, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
we are all capable of error and folly, and should be forgiven such if we are acting in good faith. Nothing is simple. Justice is complex and thoughtful. Kindness is a lifestyle not an algorithm. What beautiful sentiments Mr. Wales. Surely your followers will quote that all over the place while they ban someone for some minor or perceived offense. But I pry thee tell me, oh philosopher king, how do you respond to the following quote?
Jimbo in the old days went through amazing amounts of pain to protect people who were perceived to be on "his side" on WP. And took, on behalf of WP, amazing amounts of reputational damage for it: think of Essjay, JzG, Jayjg, Ryulong, Raul654, Gerard, SlimVirgin, the long list of people in our "notable editors" gallery here on WR.
Sometimes these people weren't even friends of Jimbo, but Durova-style vague friends of friends, ala Weiss/Mantanmoreland who was never anybody of power on WP, but who Jimbo and Gerard set out to personally protect from the depredations of.... Patrick Byrne!! I don't think Jimbo ever even met Weiss. Hell, you'd think that a pack of Zombies and Vampires were after Weiss. But no. He was only criticized by some business exec guy in Utah who wasn't even an irrational man, much less a criminally dangerous or crazy man.
So yes, Jimbo, you've managed to tolerate and protect a lot of toxic personalities and their agendas on WP. Too often, in fact almost unerringly, when you've chosen sides, you've chosen the wrong dog in the fight. You went after a Greg Kohs or a Daniel Brandt or a Judd Bagley. Why is that, you wonder? Just your bad luck?
Well, no. What has happened is that you've chosen the "Wikipedian" in every fight as though they were some loyal member of your family. But I've got news for you: they weren't. The side you chose was just the side that happened to get to Wikipedia FIRST, and manipulate it. Because they were manipulators by nature, and they had the time to do it, because THEY HAD NO LIFE. And to you, that looked like dedication. In fact, it was mental illness at worst, and pathological lack of social attachment to the world at best.
This is what happens when you choose your loyalties by who has spent the most time on Wikipedia, Jimbo. You end up with a "family" of nuts who demand your loyalty, and have totally gamed your system. You've been "pwned".
It's always been that way in the past, and (here's the horrible part) it's set up to be that way in the future, too. And now that you know it (even assuming in best case that you read this) there's still nothing you can do about it, while WP is configured the way you designed it.
I did not write it, Milton Roe on Wikipedia Review did. I'm merely relaying to you as an interested party. We are all, indeed, flawed people who make mistakes. But one of the keys to becoming a better person is to openly acknowledge one's mistakes and try to learn from them. Often this requires brutal honesty, more than kindness. Bishonen and Giano are two such brutally honest people. For this, in my view and to that of many, they have been not simply discouraged but actively prosecuted by you and the power structure you have created. So please tell me, Mr. Wales, why I should not believe the Milton Roe's statement above is the truth?-- R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine) ( talk) 15:22, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Regarding what R.D.H. brought up above, Zero tolerance, shoot on sight is the sort of "wikilove" Jimbo supported for the Byrne/Bagley side in their conflict with Weiss; soon after this dictum was posted, Cla68 was blocked for taking a mildly questioning tone about it. *Dan T.* ( talk) 23:59, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
There's an interesting article from Wired about aspects of open-source culture and online communities resembling Socialist collectivism. They specifically mention Wikipedia as an example.
Instead of gathering on collective farms, we gather in collective worlds. Instead of state factories, we have desktop factories connected to virtual co-ops. Instead of sharing drill bits, picks, and shovels, we share apps, scripts, and APIs. Instead of faceless politburos, we have faceless meritocracies, where the only thing that matters is getting things done. Instead of national production, we have peer production. Instead of government rations and subsidies, we have a bounty of free goods.
http://www.wired.com/culture/culturereviews/magazine/17-06/nep_newsocialism
While not necessarily being Communism, there is no doubt at least that Wikipedia has a strong emphasis on community-driven decision-making. ☯ Zenwhat ( talk)
I always thought Wikipedia was an anarcho-syndicalist commune. MuZemike 21:11, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm not sure meritocracy applies to wikipedia, though I wish it did a bit more... Oligarchy ticks more boxes, and fits the analogy too. Verbal chat 16:00, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
I made a See also section ( click here to view it) but Jack Merridew reverted it with the edit summery "go back 4 spaces; poor changes to structure, dubious link additions by someone too focused here"-- Emmette Hernandez Coleman ( talk) 15:43, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
This discussion is now on WP:VRP. Please click on the link to that page if you wish to contribute to this discussion. Ross Rhodes ( T C) Sign! 20:05, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Mr. Wales, this is the first time myself or a friend or relative has attempted to contact you. We have each attempted numerous numerous times in the past 22 months to solicit helpful intervention from many Wikipedia Administrators, but in almost every single case, the Administrator ends up worsening the problem or making only a few feeble attempts to understand it and "fix" things...and then basically "runs away," confused or intimidated by the complexity or volatility involved -- or deciding to further harass and defame the Mormon involved. As a result of this, a particularly cunning and obsessive cyberstalker has been able to censor or mutilate articles and items of information of great interest to Mormons, researchers, and rights activists everywhere. Just today, he and an accomplice of his Luna Santin put a total edit block on Temple Lot and Church of Christ (Temple Lot) in order to preserve "and protect" Good Olfactory = Snocrates's smear campaign at both articles since the first of December 2007. Disgraced editor Snocrates quit editing on February 16, 2008 and Good Olfactory began editing on February 16, 2008. I'm disappointed to realize that some Administrators possibly knew that the Wiki-arsonist Snocrates is the same as Wiki-arsonist Good Olfactory, and haven't done anything to stop his misconduct, but have done plenty to assist.
A few recent explanations of the problem are here and here and here (please scroll down that page) and here (note there how GoodOlFactory=Snocrates on March 7 2008 once again "tag teams" a victim editor...just 21 days after he was denied Administratorship for "tag teaming" a victim editor via Zoporific=Snocrates....!). Another useful recent resource of explanation is here on GoodOlFactorys Talk Page --comments offered before the victims of Snocrates realized that he and GoodOlFactory are one and the same. By now, there are hundreds of relevant edits, reverts, comments and so forth related to the cyberstalking scheme initiated by a couple of users in late July 2007, and then "picked up" and intensified by Snocrates = Zoporific= G77= Good Olfactory as well as accomplices such as Americasroof in December 2007 and (sadly) Versageek who banned the cyberstalking victim on December 18, 2007 when he announced he would contact Law Enforcement if the cyberstalking continued. That's not a legal threat, that's a universally-recognized civil right, for a victim of a crime to "threaten" to contact relevant police authorities. A legal threat is "threatening" to hire a lawyer and so forth. It is sad that Versageek did that, because she was helpful to the cyberstalking victim in August and earlier in December 2007, but it was wrong and injurious for Versageek to ban the cyberstalking victim and then refuse to lift the ban, to this day, just as it is wrong for the "malicious genius" Snocrates=Zoporific=G77=GoodOlfactory and accomplices to keep banning and censoring anything offered at Wikipedia by Mr. Smith or family and friends who may occassionally share his username.
I would like for Jsmith51389 to be un-banned, the same as was CheckIntentPlease, after some Administrators realized he was right about Snocrates/Zoporific, and they were wrong (see a few extra-noble Wiki Administrators apologize at the Talk Page for CheckIntentPlease) And I would like any other so-called "suspected sockpuppet" of Jsmith 51389 or friends or relatives of his (such as Snocrates Olfactorys intent and Who Framed Roger Rabbit? to also be un-banned, on the principle that every single instance of banning has been unfair, misinformed and/or malicious.
I apologize that I don't have the time now to add a lot of convenient documentation and explanation, but as you know, defamation instigates harassment and still more defamation if someone influential and authoritative is unwilling or unable to intervene. Please intervene and completely stop in all articles and Talk pages of Wikipedia, the vicious cycle of defamation and harrassment instigated in 1990 and 1991 by a malicious or inept anti-Mormon media reports locally and then replicated countless times nationwide to the present day (thanks to the internet), ranging from an atrocious false report atop the Kansas City Times/Star on January 2, 1990 to the Associated Press thereafter, and the virulently anti-Mormon Watchman Fellowship to the present day. Thank you. Victim of Cybercrime ( talk) 18:59, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Jimbo, I've been compelled to return to you one more time in relation to the editor FyzixFighter. I reported him twice recently to the administrators incidents noticeboard for wiki-hounding. I gave ample evidence to the extent that he has been following me around on physics articles undermining my attempts to make these articles more readable. The administrators turned a blind eye to the evidence and ignored the complaint. That of course gave FyzixFighter the green light to continue in earnest.
I specifically want to bring your attention to this passage which I have copied from the yesterday's centrifugal force talk page. Basically FyzixFighter is trying to prevent me from making references in the article to the extent that centrifugal force can be treated outside of the context of rotating frames of reference. He demanded that I produce sources. I produced a perfectly good source, and he then denied it.
This problem needs to be dealt with. Here is the relevant passage from the discussion page. Meanwhile, he is still continually reverting all the edits that I make to the article.
It should be obvious to any impartial observer that FyzixFighter's objection to the references that I provided was totally specious. This guy has been following me around for over a year. Since I started, he hasn't done a single physics edit that hasn't been for the purpose of undermining what I have been trying to do. I do hope that you can help to sort this problem out once and for all. David Tombe ( talk) 10:43, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
I am extremely concerned about aspects of the Scientology case at the arbcom, and would like to appeal it. My basic concern is that I am worried that, in an attempt to try to make the decision not seem one-sided, people were wrongly singled out for censure for minor problems, and sanctions were imposed on users based on insufficient or at times non-existent evidence of wrongdoing.
Would you prefer I submit this appeal via e-mail, write up the issues here, write it up on a user subpage and link you to it, or what? Phil Sandifer ( talk) 02:31, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Email me and let's discuss it. This will be a major undertaking for me, obviously, and a task I don't take lightly. -- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 03:04, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi, does a topic ban imply that one cannot post (not even on other topics) on user talk pages where the topic happens to be mentioned, including your own, as an admin claims? Regards, Guido den Broeder ( talk, visit) 09:54, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Taken quite literally, that seems like an overly broad interpretation. I don't know which admin you are referring to, nor where, though, so this should not be taken as a direct response to that.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 14:18, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
It looks terrible! Please remove ASAP.
CompuHacker (
talk)
19:30, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
P.S. If it was Jimbo himself, please be merciful!
CompuHacker (
talk)
19:30, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Hello dear Jimbo, my IP adress is blocked because a mistake, I`m a innocet user, but Drini hates Jehova's Witnesses users, and he is a proscriptor and a very bad enemy of us. I want, please, the desblock in spanish wikiquote, because I`m working constructuvely. Can you Speak with Drini the Ip's policeman an say him I'm innocent an I`m not a vandal? Thank you very much. -- 87.220.31.209 ( talk) 14:56, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Hello Jimbo, I wait for a response. Thanks. -- 87.220.31.14 ( talk) 21:04, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
General note for everybody: Drini is a steward who has confirmed that the above IP belongs to a sockpuppeteer. Griffinofwales ( talk) 02:55, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm not a sockpuppeteer. Drini hates Jehovah's Witnesses users because he likes Maya's gods. I was working constructively but he hates Bible quotations in the proyect. If I'm writing here is because I'm innocent. I want the desblock. -- 87.220.31.238 ( talk) 10:25, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm not a vandal, I want unblock because I'm innocent. -- 87.220.31.238 ( talk) 17:58, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm innocent, I'm not a vandal, I'm workimg constructively but Drini hates Jehova's Witnesses users, these are my last contibutions: Do you think I'm working constructively in the project when I'm editing pages like John Quincy Adams, Peter Hamilton Raven, Jane Goodall? obviously I'm not a vandal. -- 87.220.30.124 ( talk) 11:31, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Is a requirement that administrators be tolerant, Drini it is not, therefore you must to expell him from Wikiquote.-- Oo 19 oo ( talk) 12:05, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Can you understand now? I'm a innocent editor. -- Oo 19 oo ( talk) 11:36, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm not a wandal. I want the unblock in spanish wikiquote. I'm innocent. Are you going to speek with Drini for the unblock? -- 87.220.31.154 ( talk) 16:17, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
I want Jimbo talks with this administrator for the unblock. -- 87.220.31.154 ( talk) 16:28, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
I want the unblock now. -- 87.220.31.154 ( talk) 16:19, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
I have the IP blocked there, then I can not to speak there. This is the Jimbo Wales page. He is an administrator and he can to speak with this another administrator for the unblock. -- 87.220.31.154 ( talk) 16:26, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
This problem can to end if Jimbo speeks for my unblock. Is very simply. -- 87.220.31.154 ( talk) 16:42, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi, Jimmy Wales.
I'm from the portuguese Wikipedia where some users criticize the featured articles only because they have red links. You could answer if we can or not criticize red links in featured articles or lists, only by changing the layout? What is your opinion?
Regards, ⇨ HotWikiBR msg 13:44, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
minus 10 points for spelling his name wrong, but I'm pretty sure a FA shouldn't have many (if any) redlinks PXK T /C 13:46, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
I can sympathize with the people objecting to ArbCom's Scientology performance. Rather than solve the issue by helping create an excellent article and protecting it, they crudely eliminate one side of the argument and leave the article in the unrestrained hands of the other side. I have recently been topic banned for a year from Prem Rawat articles. A quick read of the evidence I've gathered on my talk page, heading "ArbCom decision", will demonstrate that this was an absurd miscarriage of justice. And their one year ban of Rumiton beyond belief. [14] If you haven't time to read it, please let me know. I tried to email you but it keeps getting bounced. Thanks. Momento ( talk) 06:38, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
The following is from m:User talk:Jimbo Wales and posted on request of the writer by weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 15:15, 1 June 2009 (UTC).
Hello Jimbo,
As I am unable to post at en:Wikipedia, and email results in an error message, I am posting this here.
I have been banned from en:Wikipedia by the local arbcom without explanation or evidence of wrongdoing. I wish to appeal this ban, to see my rights restored in full, my block log cleared per WP:BLP as it contains erroneous accusations of legal threats, and aggressive hounders dealt with.
Let me know if you want to hear my case. I am an editor in good standing on various other wiki projects, and have always contributed to Wikipedia in good faith.
Kind regards, Guido den Broeder 14:35, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
After a brief review of recent events, and familiarity with past events, I decline at this time to hear your case.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 15:56, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
Ciao, Jimbo. There's recently been a concerted effort to clean up the encyclopaedia's much maligned coverage of Objectivism. I realise that you generally prefer not to comment on this topic, but rumours are a-swirling that senior figures in the Objectivist movement have been in contact with you voicing concerns and trying to influence matters. If it's not too much trouble, could you clarify whether this is something you are concerned with or that should be left entirely to the editors of the articles in question? Mahalo, Skomorokh 16:42, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
for making Wikipedia possible. Cheers, Dloh cierekim 22:10, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
Mr. Wales, I am having an issue with some administrators whom I feel are punishing me for disagreeing with them by blocking an IP address I was editing with (discussion here, and abusing the term wikilawyering to broadly dismiss my complaints about administrator decisions that are contrary to both the guidelines and the spirit of Wikipedia. They are also trying to suppress my complaints about heavy-handed and excessive use of restrictive tools by maintaining a block. I will attempt to address this as briefly as possible for your input.
While not logged in, I accused another user, on his user talk, of not paying attention while reverting one of my edits, in a manner that could be considered a harassment; the user responded to each of my comments and his only specific complaint (which he did not express initially) was he took the mocking that he was not paying attention as a personal attack. He never asked me to leave him alone, but without notifying me posted an RFP to get his user page protected, claiming "IPs harassing". I could no longer speak to him on his user page and had no desire to, however at WP:RFP, I [ contested the indefinite semi-protection] placed on his page, as it was unwarranted (only one IP, mine, for months in his page history) and contrary to policy (pp must be for heavy continuous vandalism, and indefinite pp must follow previous pp) and would prevent other IPs from notifying him that he improperly reverted their edits.
After I contested the indefinite page protection, the same administrator that issued the protection blocked me for seven days for "harassment/personal attacks".
I feel that I was blocked by the administrator for challenging his page protection, even though I used the proper channel on the RFP page. I was was blocked for seven days instead of the recommended 24 hours, officially for harassing one user (in four comments in under thirty minutes, with no prior history of harassment, unconstructive edits, or bad faith behavior). I felt that this was unwarranted and excessive and I "threatened" to contest the administrator's decision with my account (this account) if he did not unblock me (I expressily promised to leave the other editor alone).
I then filled out an appeal for unblocking template (saying again I would leave the other editor alone and citing numerous guidelines that I feel clearly indicate the block was excessivly heavy handed) and was denied the appeal, one of the primary reasons given that the editor had asked me to leave him alone and I didn't, which wasn't true (again he never asked me to leave him alone, he want straight to page protection).
I appealed again and was accused of "wikilawyering" and arguing that two admins were wrong and I was right (about being blocked contrary to guidelines?), told that I had made a threat of harassment (my vow to contest the administrator's decision), and there was no reason to believe my behavior would change (despite my repeat promises to leave the other editor alone and only question the administrator's actions).
Again I feel I am being outright punished (and blocks must not be used for punishment according to blocking policy) for disagreeing with an administrator and questioning his decisions. I will end by citing Wikipedia:Administrator_conduct#Administrator_conduct "editors are free to question or to criticize administrator actions" and your own statement "I want to dispel the aura of "authority" around the position [of administratorship]".
I'm sorry I wrote so much, thank you for your time and I value your input in these circumstances.
edit: I feel I should clarify I don't care about being blocked per se and I will accept that this account will probably be blocked for "block dodging"; what bothers me is administrators too quickly and excessively issuing blocks and page protections; I feel these actions are contrary to the nature of Wikipedia as they stifle and alienate good users who make isolated mistakes. Some guy ( talk) 05:32, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Jimmy,
Can we get an update from the horse's mouth on where we are with Flagged Revisions for BLPs, and what the approximate ETA is? If you still have the authority to do policy by fiat, and you do believe in protecting BLPs, why can't we just get it done with? If there is some technical hitch we're waiting on Brion to sort out, we can still make it policy, and just leave it pending till Brion turns on the light switch. That would give people time to go over to that Sandbox wiki to experiment and learn, and to let us begin hashing out who gets "approver" status and how.
The recent disgusting fiasco at Catherine Crier was repugnant. Go read the history, and use your magic status to go look at the Oversighted revisions, then answer me: if you have the ability to unilaterally enforce policy, why haven't you yet in the wake of this kind of crap? How much longer are we going to have to wait? If this costs us a couple of old-school hardline "FREE WIKI" editors, good riddance. If it costs us 1,000: Good riddance. Some things are more important than others.
I'm being bold and formatting this to separate Jimmy's reply from others. I consider the section headings part of my comment proper; do not remove them unless you're Jimmy himself. rootology/ equality (Signature time stamp removed by me under WP:IAR; this can be removed as a section by Jimmy if he does not want it here--I will restore any other removal, or Archival Bot removal; this was posted June the First.)
I think we are simply waiting now on Brion. He has suggested "before Wikimania". I hope that's right.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 10:35, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Some potatoes
The best sack of potatoes | ||
For creating Wikipedia |
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Abce2 ( talk • contribs)
To make the best chips | ||
For cooking up Wikipedia |
The Wet Trout Award | ||
For coming up with Wikipedia |
I would hate to be Jimbo in the sense that I'm sure anytime he logs on it's like You have new messages because of the many messages he gets that are not relevant to him (like this one... Sorry, Mr. Wales!). Should we make a banner up top and divide it? I'm suggesting:
This is the talk page for Jimbo Wales. Please categorize your message into the following categories: |
Thank-yous, smiles, WikiLove, WikiHugs, or other messages of admiration (something someone else thinks of)
Please note that Mr. Wales does not get involved in content dispute, blocks, or other... bla, bla.
Maybe Mr. Wales has some input? Thank you. — Mr. E. Sánchez (that's me!) What I Do / What I Say 21:15, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm really, REALLY sorry to request your intervention in an arbitration case, I honestly believe the committee is making a mistake. I was recently topic banned from editing Scientology articles as a result of the second arbitration case on that subject, for edits I made before the first case. I've contributed numerous quality images to the project, shaped up several challenging articles, haven't violated the terms of or been blocked because of the first case, nor have I been involved in any edit warring so I really don't understand why a topic ban out of the blue is necessary.
Please also note that the arbcom imposed a blanket set of topic bans in this case, including editors who weren't involved in the first case and had even stopped editing prior to it. (For example the first case was May 2008, User:Orsini stopped editing in 10/2007, and was one of the recently topic banned.) Here's the case: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Scientology Anynobody( ?) 02:16, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
I second Anynobody's request -- Jimbo, this is a case you really need to look into, because it attracted a lot of attention and the decision of the Arbitration Committee simply is not one that holds up under examination. If you saw this edit on a user talk page -- a user suggesting to a foul-mouthed vandal that they have a "problem" they should "get over" -- would it lead you to say "Wow, that user must be such a problem editor that we must skip all the customary dispute resolution steps and hit them with a topic-ban of indefinite duration"? Would you come to the conclusion that this edit -- also completely unrelated to Scientology -- justifies an immediate and indefinite topic-ban from Scientology? I don't think you would, and yet that represents about 20 percent of the evidence presented to justify the topic-ban. It's not clear exactly what went on, but a fair and just Arbitration was not it. -- Antaeus_Feldspar ( talk) 22:55, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
This case was discussed on the The Colbert Report. Jehochman Talk 02:01, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
For how long? i'm talking about the information related to the location the editor was and another information that can be used in sockpuppet investigations. RB etihw atar ( talk) 22:49, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
File:Wales on millionaire.jpg. Godfather of reggae indeed. ~ fl 10:43, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
Hey Jimbo you rock!! Can you sign my guestbook here's the link-- P-Real DA deal ( talk) 18:42, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Moved thread to WT:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement. Griffinofwales2 ( talk) 15:49, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Thread is now closed. User:Unfrayed has been banned for being a sockpuppet of User:Jsmith 51389. Griffinofwales ( talk) 22:42, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Did I miss something or did someone oversight/hide edits by SqueakBox? rootology ( C)( T) 00:14, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Here is the sequence, and you can see the edits by diffing across the missing edits. [15]. The first edit is Antaeus Feldspar ( talk · contribs) which was accidentally saved while logged out. SqueakBox commented a few times, and then I replaced the IP with "Antaeus Feldspar".
Your friendly Outer Party member, John Vandenberg ( chat) 05:05, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Jimbo, a few months ago you indicated things like the JasonR desysopping would be best addressed directly to you [16]. I was wondering if you could look at BradPatrick ( talk · contribs). It appears Danny ( talk · contribs) sysopped him [17] without comment in 2006, presumably in the course of his employment. Since he hasn't been employed by the Foundation for some time now, and never went through RFA, and since Danny is no longer a steward, could you look into the matter and act or advise on where I should go next? Thanks. MBisanz talk 04:23, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Looks like he hasn't done any admin actions for more than 2 years, so this sounds reasonable. I just pinged him in email for his opinion, will let you know when I know something.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 12:31, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Hi there, Jimbo. I was just wondering if you have any intent to update Wikipedia's design anytime soon, because I live and breathe this kind of thing (interface/website design), and have been thinking about the kind of design philosophy that would help the editing experience in particular be able to reach people of the third-world, and be accessible/inviting to non-tech-savvy users in general... (without developing an interface that requires endless bandwidth). And, of course, the look of the site. Anyway, you can see what I do
here (software design stuff at the bottom), and if you're curious, I can mock up a photoshop comp (preview) so you can see if you wanna mess around with the idea. If you do, I would do all this for free until work actually gets started (in other words, free during the design phase), then just collect some dough upon completion. (so you understand I wouldn't be trying to get myself into something that I would try to make drag on for eternity, for more dough)
Otherwise, if you aren't interested, don't bother replying (waste of time); you can just delete this off your page. (btw, my email is dario@deefrag.com)--
Dario D. (
talk)
21:05, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Greetings. There seems to be some disagreement on whether it is acceptable to use Associated Press images in Wikipedia articles. Of course we don't want to get sued. I remember that you had previously taken action on this issue at File:Il-76 shootdown.jpg, so I wanted to make you personally aware of what's going on with File:Corralesx.jpg, it's unsuccessful nomination for deletion, and its first and second (current) appearances at Deletion Review. I have e-mailed Mike Godwin and left a message here on his talk page. If you would be willing to make some sort of a statement, it would help us to sort this whole thing out. Thanks, – Quadell ( talk) 15:23, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
It seems to me that the purpose of the Ignore All Rules pillar is to allow users to protect Wikipedia from major problems (e.g. lawsuits) when bureaucratic process gets in the way. I think the image has to be deleted, and I think everyone who understands our policy agrees. The trouble is, there are enough active admins who disagree that this is rapidly devolving into a wheel war. – Quadell ( talk) 21:02, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
This part is important: At 2PM, I set my mind to get a free photo of this man. By 2:30:37, I had one. "Jimmy, thank you for the email. Diego Corrales was a good friend of mine and you are more than welcome to use any photos of mine you would like for Wikipedia. I only ask for a credit in my name." I emailed back to confirm which license he's ok with, and I'll be able to upload it for him later today. This is why I say that that calling this image "replaceable" is correct: it was replaceable. Is 30 minutes of work too much work? No, it is not. That's part of the research process. We don't cut and paste from other sources because it would be faster. We do the legwork. And we're proud of that.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 21:37, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Wow, way to cut the Gordian Knot, Jimbo! I have uploaded the photo to Commons as File:Diego Corrales.jpg. Hurrah! – Quadell ( talk) 22:31, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo, in two years of looking for solutions to the BLP issues have finally stumbled upon an idea that hasn't been raised before. Basically it's this:
This would require developer assistance, and require a bit of structure to make sure the ability doesn't get misused. An initial draft proposal is at my blog. [18] Am interested in your thoughts. Durova Charge! 20:54, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
What really needs to be sorted out are the hard core minority of vociferous admins who are devising their own unique interpretations of BLP, such as out of sight special protection forums, dead tree notability or time limited notability, and 2 hour deletion discussions, and applying these across the pedia as if they were policy. MickMacNee ( talk) 16:48, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't know how anyone can claim Wikipedia is not doing its upmost to protect living people. Take a look at the recently closed DRV for our ex-arbitrator David Boothroyd, who had an article for three years until mysteriously dissappearing once a bit of scandal broke. The new streamlined BLP enforcement process is now well established - throw Afd out the window and delete an article out of process (twice by the same admin no less) citing 'BLP', and when there is not 80% support at DRV that the closing admin was totally out of order, and he continues to be blissfully oblivous to the 14 people telling him he screwed up (not a big majority supposedly when compared to 16 people chiming in to carry on debating the Afd, while the article is invisible, and ignoring the fact the venue was DRV not AFd), it can then be claimed all is well with the world as there is no consensus to change the 'status quo'. It's a joke. It's no wonder The Register takes the piss mercilessly, it has ample source material. MickMacNee ( talk) 18:59, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Whatever happened to "helping the Internet not suck"? Have Wikipedia's administrators come to the conclusion that "we help the internet suck a lot, so we should go away"? Content pages should not be NOINDEXED, that's tantamount to taking Wikipedia's articles offline. I don't even like the idea of NOINDEXing other pages--if I google something, and it's on the Internet, I expect to find it--though I guess it's necessary in some circumstances. I suppose that NOINDEXing a few troublesome bios won't be a big deal (as long as they aren't particularly well-known). But I'm afraid this will lead to a creeping NOINDEXing of all BLPs. 67.187.92.105 ( talk) 01:53, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Sorry to pull the quote out like this, but you're a member of the Board, which has ultimate control over the priorities of the Foundation. Have you tried saying "this is more important than planning a vacation in Buenos Aires, focus on this first"? -- MZMcBride ( talk) 22:06, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
I wonder if the WMF issued a global top-down policy--by fiat--that local projects must remove any content that "may legally endanger or expose" the WMF, would endanger their Sec 230 protection? Just tossing this out there, as a possible way that BLP can be given bullets via the WMF. rootology ( C)( T) 19:36, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
What do you think would help, Jimbo? لenna vecia 18:14, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
"The way to satisfy both the Section 230 issue and the BLP issue would be for the Foundation to do the same thing it did with non-free images." -- Thank you. I'm not always the most to the point person, or I'm too to the point, but this is exactly the point I was trying to make. rootology ( C)( T) 13:31, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Hey Jimbo. I'm curious what you make of the Arbcom member/ leftist politician violating conflict of interest policies and sock puppeteering? And now we also have admins working aggressively to delete the article about this politician that was KEPT in 2005. I thought notability doesn't expire? Does it expire when the politician and Arbcom member are caught undermining Wikipedia's integrity and after there is substantial coverage in reliable independent sources? Shouldn't this be something we work hard to root out? Arbcom seems to be very sick, and it's distressing that the problem of those engaging in censorship and bias goes all the way to the most powerful editors on Wikipedia. I guess this explains why they're so aggressive in supporting the NPOV violations and POV pushers going after anyone trying to balance our Obama coverage with notable controversies and criticisms? ChildofMidnight ( talk) 00:43, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Sam Blacketer resigned, which is enough I think. CoM, you and others will not be allowed to slander that man by writing an unbalanced biography of him in mainspace. Mainspace is not for punishing people. The community has approved my approach to this problem by confirming the deletion at WP:DRV. Jehochman Talk 09:22, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Did you get my email about a functionary using an undisclosed sock to edit for money on behalf of businessmen? YellowMonkey ( cricket calendar poll!) 02:56, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Given how this seems to be coming up more and more there should be a community discussion (RFC?) on the whys and hows behind this and to come up with a community-endorsed stance on this. I think I'll draft up an RFC. Since "paid editing" in and of itself is not a blockable offense, and may or may not be frowned upon depending on how it's handled. Frowned upon = widely, I know some people are totally against some, some don't care, and I'm in the middle of I don't care why someone writes a "good article", so long as they understand the minute it's posted they have no ownership stake or claim over it on this site. rootology ( C)( T) 17:48, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
User talk:Jimbo Wales/Archive 47#Please help I know you're very busy, and I'm guessing the thread was archived by a bot before you could render a judgement, but to sum up in case you need a quick refresher:
I've always used all pertinant information from what we consider reliable sources in my edits. Articles about Scientology feature in depth coverage of its negative aspects. We would have to ignore the bulk of what the sources say about Scientology if we set out not to say anything "bad" about it. For example a Time article called The Thriving Cult of Greed and Power obviously is going to say things Scientologists don't like, and might just make anyone citing it look anti-Scientology. (Another more current example is the debate in France over banning Scientology) If there are reliable sources out there which say good things about Scientology I'm just as happy to include them as well. (I haven't found any which AREN'T dominated by negative aspects though.)
I think the ARBCOM believes that by topic banning anyone labelled a POV pusher it will somehow end any future arguments. However as long as the sources concentrate on the negatives of Scientology, Scientologists editing from home will work at removing them and calling anyone who cites them a POV pusher. I'm agnostic and have no personal interest in defaming Scientology, I just think our articles should reflect what valid sources say good or bad. Anynobody( ?) 02:36, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
This is overdue, probably: Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Paid Editing. Given that this (and related WP:COI issues) seem to be coming up more and more, I've launched this basic RFC. We've never had an actual community discussion or mandate about this. Please review the statements, leave yours, endorse as you see fit. Should make for an interesting and enlightening discussion.
Jimmy, would you be willing to leave a statement on the RFC itself? rootology ( C)( T) 19:31, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. But, er, what is biased about:
"An RFC on the notion of paid editing. NOTE: Today, as of the launch time of this RFC, this is not a blockable offense under any policy, or to my knowledge against any explicit policy, but dances around WP:COI in some ways."
And
Whats the question?
Is Paid Editing a problem? Is it fine? Is it against policy? What policy? What should be the response?
Desired outcome
A start toward consensus on what the community view actually is on the matter of "paid editing".
Since there is no policy against it today I left the wording as wide-open as possible. "What do you think?" is the tone. I'd actually ask you to not do such blocks, as you're still of course bound by policy as much as anyone. Your recent block of Petrosianii was for sockpuppetry, not paid editing. Seicer ( talk · contribs), an admin, actually stated here that he is paid to edit content. Are you going to block him? Such a block would have no basis in policy and out of policy blocks have no standing, for any admin. rootology ( C)( T) 21:45, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Jimmy, I really don't mean this to be a dickish question, but the way this is unraveling is highly confusing. I started the RFC to simply see what everyone thought, as there has never been a frank public discussion of this before to see what the community actually thought. Your views have always been clear. Like I said in my RFC statement, I've always been ambivalent and more interested in the quality of the content rather than caring who wrote it--a paid author, Satan, it's all the same for me. Is it good, NPOV, notable, etc.? The way the RFC is spinning out is frankly the exact opposite of what I expected. I was figuring I'd get some supports, we'd see 20 statements in various forms "against", and that would be that. Not what is happening, but the opposite.
But I have to ask-- are you going to block Seicer and Nichalp for paid editing? rootology ( C)( T) 16:10, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
(od)That seems like a rather harsh comment against rootology, Mister Wales - I can't see how the RFC was written in a biased manner - hell, it's opening lines were shorter than most RFCs to begin with. Skinny87 ( talk) 17:06, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
For what its worth I fully agree with Jimbos stance on this. To my mind this deserves a zero tolerance policy. We are assuming in good faith that paid editing will amount to peacockery at the most. In reality the money is not in trying to spruce up the notability of some borderline companies, the money is in removing negative information about some of the very affluent subjects we already cover. The money is in adjusting policy, it is in removing 'trouble makers'. While 'outsiders' with COI editing articles are of only limited danger because of their limited areas of interest and unsophisticated approach to wikipedia, once we establish a culture of paid editing, this will inevitably spill over to administrative actions and policy formulation. Unomi ( talk) 18:55, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Thanks rootology for notifying me of this thread. To clarify my rather vague statement I made earlier, I resigned as an administrator in April to pursue my off-WP writings and photography, along with my full-time job as a designer and coordinator for a private university. I had a lack of time in dealing with the usual drama and ongoings at WP, and felt it best to resign the bit' and (now) edit semi-frequently.
With that, I don't edit much anymore because of potential conflicts of interests with four very large web-sites that I manage. I spend hundreds of hours a year researching various topics and then photographing them, and I rarely have the time to copyedit every one of them into WP. It also eliminates a potential COI when dealing with other editors.
As for my function at the university, one of my tasks is to update, periodically, our university's article. I haven't done any clean sweeps nor removals; I only add content or modify content with information that is sourced directly from our publications and web-sites, or from accompanying articles and publications. It's not paid advocacy because thus far I have not advocated for or against anything, and is only to plug in information where none frankly existed. The article sucked and was sorely lacking content, to be honest. That's very different than one running an operation for external clients to purely advocate a certain fringe POV upon a certain and dedicated article, and that's not what I am doing or advocating for.
One year later, not one individual has come up against my potential COI because I strive not to have a bias to or against the university. I've authored numerous GA's and have done a lot of work for many articles on WP, and not once has the speckle of COI come up until now -- and after my own admission. I'd like to keep it that way. seicer | talk | contribs 00:07, 11 June 2009 (UTC)