This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 15 | Archive 16 | Archive 17 | Archive 18 | Archive 19 | Archive 20 | → | Archive 25 |
What do we use where and how do we determine it? Episode guides, renewal/cancellation/ending announcements from Deadline Hollywood, et al, etc. I know for press releases we use publisher, like on The Futon Critic. Not sure on other things, but I know you use publisher sometimes, sometimes after I've cleaned up an article. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 16:46, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
OK, here's how this is supposed to go, as best I can figure – if the source is a "written" article, etc. that comes from a "press" outlet (e.g. with actual named reporters or "staff reporters" writing the article), then the work
parameter should be used. This is especially true if the corresponding article has its title italicized – e.g.
Variety (magazine),
Deadline Hollywood. The publisher
parameter should be used just when someone is "publishing" info (i.e. probably not "original" info from themselves) – so, for things like airdate listings, I'd use the publisher
parameter. For those just "republishing" others' work, or those just providing a website or medium through which others publish, then you use the via
parameter (e.g. YouTube, Instagram, Futon Critic when they're just republishing press releases, etc.). When to use the website
parameter is iffy... really, that should only be used when they only go by the "website name", but these days that applies to almost nobody (e.g. it's supposed to be "Deadline Hollywood", not "Deadline.com"!)! Still, sometimes we get lazy and use the website domain and the website
parameter when we should be spelling out the name and using the work
parameter... FWIW. --
IJBall (
contribs •
talk)
18:00, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
work
. For example:
[1]. Otherwise, use publisher
or via
. Like in the case of the episode listings from The Futon Critic and episode guides from Zap2it, there's no author mentioned anywhere. In the case of The Futon Critic, it does have "The Futon Critic Staff" on the press releases, but with no specific author, we'd still just use publisher
or via
.
Amaury (
talk |
contribs)
19:07, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
work
, even though we leave the author
parameter blank. But for those other examples, basically yes. For press releases, just ignore any listed "authors" (you see that a lot more at Zap2It/TV by the Numbers, and it's really annoying, as those authors are just "quoting" a press release in its entirety!!), and for those you definitely use via
with the publisher
being whomever really released the press release (usually a TV network, or sometimes a production company...). --
IJBall (
contribs •
talk)
19:13, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
work
; but if it's just a listing of the ratings (directly from Nielsen) with nothing else added on top of that, I'd use publisher
, like we do with episode air date listings... --
IJBall (
contribs •
talk)
19:27, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
work
since there's: NETWORK FINALS: NBC’s NHL PLAYOFFS game lost 0.1 in final numbers. CABLE HIGHLIGHTS: The NBA PLAYOFFS have arrived, and ESPN’s trio of games dominated Saturday cable at 1.60/1.24/1.16, with the Miami vs. Philadelphia game at the top. A&E’s LIVE PD shed 0.04 to 0.63...(And even when the ratings are in a comment from Mitch Salem, the one who writes that text for broadcast and cable, because a particular airing didn't make the top 150, it'd still be
work
since it's the same site.) Likewise, with TV by the Numbers, we have,
for example
Archived 2018-05-02 at
WebCite: It was a down week in the Tuesday cable ratings for “WWE Smackdown.” The weekly USA broadcast took a minor hit and fell two-tenths from its previous 1.0 to a 0.8 rating in adults 18-49 with 2.55 million viewers...Now, with The Futon Critic, it looks like it'd definitely be
publisher
. For example, see
here. It's just listing the ratings.
Amaury (
talk |
contribs)
19:40, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
via
/publisher
point...) In terms of TV by the Numbers, I think it's work
– not only is there TbtN's written prose "analysis", but even their "colored boxes" thing in the ratings tables can be considered "original" (by them) "analysis" of the ratings figures... --
IJBall (
contribs •
talk)
22:18, 26 April 2018 (UTC)Oh, hey! What about Copyright Office? Amaury ( talk | contribs) 00:54, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
This website, which is where I learned the difference a while ago, states: The premise and the plot of a book are two different things. The premise is the concept of the book. The plot, on the other hand, is what happens in the book — all the events that make up the story.
Obviously, that's not exclusive to books and can apply to TV series as well. So I totally understand that. The premise is the concept, or outline; the plot is what actually makes up the story. It seems obvious to me that one-liners or similar sentences, like at Hunter Street, are 100% premise, but when it comes to ones with several sentences, I'm having trouble determining if they're a premise and plot. (Although I do realize that the length of the section doesn't necessarily determine whether it's a premise or a plot.) And it doesn't look like I'm alone as that website goes on to say: It’s pretty easy to get mixed up between what the premise of a book is and what the plot is — especially if you’re dealing with a book where the plot is very premise-driven — like a murder mystery with a twist ending where the twist is the point. Or a non-fiction book, where the premise and the plot can be the same thing — ‘Here’s what happened during WWI!’
. What are some tips you have on determining what is what?
I'll try my hand first to see if you think I'm right or wrong by listing below what I think the proper heading is for each series, ignoring whether it already is that or not. In bold are ones I've already changed today or recently to that header title, though it doesn't mean I'm necessarily right. The ones you've already changed to premise or that don't even have a section I'm not including below.
So that's what I think they should be if I'm understanding the difference right, again, regardless of whether or not they're already named that. Where am I right and where am I wrong? Thanks in advance. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 21:03, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
You thought the 5:30–7:30 PM scheduling in early 2017 was bad? Say hello to summer 2018 scheduling! (Technically, summer doesn't begin until June 21, but you get the idea.) These are all from Nick and More, so take them with a grain of salt as they're subject to change. There's currently nothing on the reliable guides.
General comments:
Amaury ( talk | contribs) 19:20, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
I think we can make an exception here and start a recurring cast list with him listed with only three appearances as of tonight's episode. And perhaps Lou as well, but not sure. Like was done with Lincoln Melcher (Griff) on Bunk'd because of his role, Tomaso Sanelli (Nate) has a pretty prominent role on the series. Shawn Lawrence (Lou) also seems to be along the same things, but not 100% on him. Thoughts? Amaury ( talk | contribs) 01:49, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
As a followup, it's really odd. The series announcement had Tomaso Sanelli in the article, and when names are mentioned in those announcement articles, it means they are main actors. However, Tomaso Sanelli is not in the opening credits, and then even more odd, two of the main actors from the credits weren't even mentioned in the article. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 02:04, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
Not really related to the above discussion, and I wonder how I added this to my watchlist, but there's been an IP adding unconstructive personal opinions, which I'm interpreting as vandalism, to the article over the last few days. May need another eye or two on this one. MPFitz1968 ( talk) 14:48, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
There was a marathon on the main Nickelodeon channel last Sunday, April 15. Thought you might be interested in this. Average for the marathon was 0.86 million viewers, slightly better than the average of 0.82 million viewers for the Saturday premieres on April 14 (Henry Danger: 1.061 million, Knight Squad: 0.800 million, Star Falls: 0.597 million). There's something wrong with this picture. xD Amaury ( talk | contribs) 04:25, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
Well I put “Green” in the “Cast” section on the Legends of the Hidden Temple (film) adaptation page hence the fact that the movie is based off the game show and therefore featured real versions of the team animals. The green monkey (named Mikey), red jaguar (not sure why they used a cougar), and orange iguana were played by real animals while the purple parrot, blue barracudas, and silver snakes were computer-animated. Alec Borden ( talk) 22:18, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
Thank you for undoing my unintentional vandalism! I had an add-on on my Chrome that turns the name "Trump" back to Donald Trump's original name "Drumpf", and somehow it appears that in my editing, this change was made to an unrelated use of the word "trump" inside of a URL! — Preceding unsigned comment added by CouplandForever ( talk • contribs) 00:05, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
Just an FYI: Hello. Edit summaries would certainly be useful. Also, I find the whole "this is an X page that lists Y" redundant. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 17:42, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
@ Amaury: re: List of Henry Danger characters – something needs to be added to that to indicate the first names of the two Hart parents, as both were later credited that way, and I believe that's also how Mr. Hart is credited in The Adventures of Kid Danger... -- IJBall ( contribs • talk) 18:15, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
Just a heads up that this was created today. It's the dramedy Splitting Up Together originated from. Seems okay to me so far. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 16:17, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
Hey! Could you take a look at this? A likely sockpuppet keeps adding an image of questionable copyright to the article. The image is already up for deletion at Commons, and the user added to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Vanillablu. Cheers! --‖ Ebyabe talk - Opposites Attract ‖ 07:06, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
Hey IJBall,
I was hoping you might chime in on this discussion being had in regards to deleting a page for the upcoming Netflix film First Ladies. I created a draft earlier today due to the fact that there is no word that the film has actually begun filming. Noticed later in the day that someone had went ahead and created a article in the mainspace. Hope to get your input in the discussion over at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/First Ladies (film). Thanks, BoogerD ( talk) 01:27, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
Speaking of Jessie, I've got a sandbox page for a list of characters article as I have plans on splitting the article as the characters section is definitely long enough as of now. However, that may not be needed if were to clean out those in the "Recurring" and "Guest stars" sections who definitely don't belong and see how long of a page that puts us at after the cleanup.
For reference, of the LOC articles we have now for Nickelodeon and Disney Channel series, here is the number of bytes/characters for each, as of this message:
Article | Bytes |
---|---|
List of Backstage characters | 10,969 |
List of Girl Meets World characters | 29,543 |
List of Henry Danger characters | 8,542 |
List of Lab Rats characters | 37,204 |
List of Liv and Maddie characters | 40,965 |
List of Mighty Med characters | 47,788 |
List of The Thundermans characters | 11,098 |
My LOC Jessie sandbox page is at 17,602 bytes—17,757 bytes if you include the characters image, but you can't have those in sandboxes. As of now, it has more bytes than three of the pages above, and if LOC pages are appropriate for those three, an LOC page is definitely appropriate for Jessie. But that's right now, and that might change once we clean out characters who don't actually belong.
When you have time, looking at List of Jessie episodes, who should be removed from the "Recurring" and "Guest stars" sections? If there are any that should be added—probably not, though—that's also fair game. In other words, who's actually recurring, and of those who aren't recurring, who's actually notable enough to be listed in the "Guest stars" section? Like what was done with Bunk'd. I know there are definitely some who shouldn't be listed. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 19:25, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
Recurring and Notable List
|
---|
|
New Recurring and Notable List
|
---|
|
I was noticing going thru that article, and then season articles generated ( Growing Pains (season 1), Growing Pains (season 2), Growing Pains (season 3), Growing Pains (season 4), Growing Pains (season 5), Growing Pains (season 6), Growing Pains (season 7)), that the user creating the season articles went thru a WP:BOLD WP:SPLIT, without making any attribution of where the text in the season articles came from - looks like it was pretty much copied from the LoE article - or seeking to split via the talk page. This split occurred more than six months ago.
I was planning on fixing the LoE articles so that the info from the season articles is properly transcluded, but wasn't sure about the validity of the season articles, since they were improperly split from the LoE. What got my attention is when I saw the air date for one episode from season 4 ("Second Chance") was incorrect - should be April 19, 1989, instead of April 12, 1989, after checking TV Guide - but in checking that, I realized that I would have to change that in two places, the way the articles are set up right now.
BTW, I'm catching some episodes of the series (including the aforementioned "Second Chance" - which featured Matthew Perry before Friends) on Antenna TV, which I'm getting via the Instant TV that is part of my Comcast Internet service. MPFitz1968 ( talk) 08:51, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
...and the 'Guest cast' section is entirely unsourced and does not even include which episodes those "guest stars" appeared.Exactly why I believe guest stars being listed in the episode tables is a must rather than just in a guest section or what have you, and trying to use the common argument that the parameter is meant for summaries is arguing over a technicality, like what Nyu mentioned in one of the discussions. It is needed for verification. How do I know if Actor X as Character Y is actually a recurring character (5+ appearances, typically) if I don't have an episode table to check? The answer is I don't. You can't expect people to just take your word that they're recurring. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 14:24, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Andi Mack#Cyrus Goodman. In case there's anything you want to add. I basically said, if I understood you correctly, what you said somewhere a while ago. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 14:05, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
Hello. A while back I had a discussion with you regarding formatting of filmography tables, and I remember you saying that you originally formatted the example in WP:FILMOGRAPHY. Another editor reverted a formating edit I did, where I listed all an actors television films as 'Television film', changing from 'Movie (network)'. They then changed the example in WP:FILMOGRAPHY to reflect this, saying that the original formatting was redundant. Whilst I personally prefer the phrasing 'Television film', it is not that important either way, but I would like to be able to be consistent, as I edit quite a few actor articles where they appear in several TV films. Has there been some discussion/consensus on this that I can not find? Sorry to bother you, but I was just looking for clarification, and would like to avoid any potential edit wars. Many thanks. AutumnKing ( talk) 06:51, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
ACTRIAL:
Deletion tags
Backlog drive:
Editathons
Paid editing - new policy
Subject-specific notability guidelines
Not English
News
Is this a series you watched? If so, can you confirm the latest edits by Generale Lee with the addition to the Recurring section? Amaury ( talk | contribs) 14:43, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
Whoo! Amaury ( talk | contribs) 23:31, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
A lot of people are speculating cancellation, but even he didn't mention the word: https://twitter.com/nickandmore/status/1000065126375002112 Amaury ( talk | contribs) 23:06, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
Well, that solves that. Fingers crossed it's renewed. I mean, it's not doing that much worse than Knight Squad, and it's not doing too well itself, unless Nickelodeon is considering its numbers good given the general ratings decline plus that Nielsen's last sample update wasn't exactly on Nickelodeon's side. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 05:25, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
Hi IJBall. I saw you reverted my edit on Chris Wood (actor) as 'unsourced', but I noticed at least this source that seems to confirm the statement. Trijnstel talk 15:58, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
partner
parameter is for either. --
IJBall (
contribs •
talk)
16:00, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
That's interesting. Looks like there was a change made as episode table headers now have a black border. Have a look at any of our watched TV series articles—you can't miss it. Previously, it was the same shade as the episode table body. I kind of like it. Perhaps it was done because the gray borders didn't look or contrast that well with most of the colors or shades used for the header—for example, yellow. Looks like it's coded as well depending on what color or shade the header is used. If you take a look at I Am Frankie and then compare it to, say, List of K.C. Undercover episodes, you should notice an obvious difference, particularly between each column with the header cells. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 14:41, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
https://deadline.com/2018/06/cyma-zarghami-departs-nickelodeon-1202403072/ Amaury ( talk | contribs) 20:12, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
Ignoring the MOS:BOLD issue, do you think notes like this are trivial? Amaury ( talk | contribs) 23:42, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
Nothing official has been announced yet on Deadline Hollywood, et al., but this seems to indirectly confirm S3. I realize Just Jared is WP:NOTRS, but if you look here, the official—verified—Disney Channel PR Twitter retweeted it, so we may be able to use it? Pinging Geraldo Perez as well. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 16:19, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
This seems to be more telling on Bizaardvark, though the words renewed aren't specifically stated. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 19:53, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
It's official now. I'll be updating the article shortly. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 16:44, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
New Bizaardvark cast confirmed. At 10:27 on this video from Disney Channel's official YouTube on May 12, 2018. Add: And at 23:17, we see the new Bunk'd cast. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 22:34, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. The thread is Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring#User:Harmony944 reported by User:Amaury (Result: ). Thank you. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 15:18, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
Proof. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 16:36, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
These additions probably need to be reviewed based on their number of guest star appearances. Also, unlike animation, I think you'll agree with me in this case that "portrayed by" is pointless. Add: For example, Omar is just a plant with no credit, similar to Jessie and Mr. Kipling, except it was only in a small amount of episodes and is only a plant, not an animal. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 19:17, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
Okay, I'm curious about something. If IMBD is not a WP:RS then why is a link to her IMBD in the External Links section? That's where I got the DOB from considering the link was already on her Wikipedia page. From my perspective that says the information it contains hasn't been challenged and is thereby accurate. So I assume that if it's not a RS then the link should be removed as well, right? Snickers2686 ( talk) 20:54, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
Hi IJBall,
Just thought you should know the random ip address that your reverted is blocked for 31 hours due to personal attacks toward me. He or she has been disruptive editing various articles on Wikipedia. —
Lbtocth
talk
14:50, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
Seems they're back to it again. See article history for Judge Mathis and the latest discussion on their talk page: User talk:Harmony944#More edit warring after block. Not really sure what to do about them. I'll ping NeilN as well since he was the one who blocked them last. Hope you don't mind, Neil. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 16:42, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
I'm talking about the initial removal of the fluff. It's not a direct undoing. This was clearly a regular edit-- Harmony944 ( talk) 17:31, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
Hello IJBall, thank you for your work reviewing New Pages!
We can see the light at the end of the tunnel: there are currently 2900 unreviewed articles, and 4000 unreviewed redirects.
Announcing the Backlog Elimination Drive!
Go here to remove your name if you wish to opt-out of future mailings. — Insertcleverphrasehere ( or here) 06:57, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
Article's history here:
We have a non-autoconfirmed editor overwriting what is currently a redirect to Bizaardvark, attempting to make a full article about her and ignoring the note in there about the draft article at Draft:Olivia Rodrigo. MPFitz1968 ( talk) 09:43, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
In case there are more problems with this, I'll also ping Amaury and Geraldo Perez. Could you please keep an eye on this as well? MPFitz1968 ( talk) 09:51, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
Would you agree with that I have Henry, Wes, and Lisa Apple as recurring based on this? Henry and Lisa have been in four episodes so far and are bound to continue appearing. Same with Wes, except he's only at three right now; however, he seems to have a major (guest) role, like Griff in Bunk'd when he was added early. It's pretty much the same as the live article, except I'm not including Charlotte who's only had two appearances. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 22:46, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
May need to keep an eye on this article after I made a WP:BOLD removal of the "drunk driver" detail from the plot ( [4]), which I subsequently brought up on the show's talk page. An IP has reinserted the content since ( [5]), which I immediately reverted. MPFitz1968 ( talk) 17:02, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
This looks like such a good series from Amazon Prime, and, according to Nick and More, it's coming to Universal Kids tonight. New episodes every Saturday 9:00 PM–12:00 AM. Unfortunately, our DirecTV package doesn't have it! :( Amaury ( talk | contribs) 16:53, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 15 | Archive 16 | Archive 17 | Archive 18 | Archive 19 | Archive 20 | → | Archive 25 |
What do we use where and how do we determine it? Episode guides, renewal/cancellation/ending announcements from Deadline Hollywood, et al, etc. I know for press releases we use publisher, like on The Futon Critic. Not sure on other things, but I know you use publisher sometimes, sometimes after I've cleaned up an article. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 16:46, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
OK, here's how this is supposed to go, as best I can figure – if the source is a "written" article, etc. that comes from a "press" outlet (e.g. with actual named reporters or "staff reporters" writing the article), then the work
parameter should be used. This is especially true if the corresponding article has its title italicized – e.g.
Variety (magazine),
Deadline Hollywood. The publisher
parameter should be used just when someone is "publishing" info (i.e. probably not "original" info from themselves) – so, for things like airdate listings, I'd use the publisher
parameter. For those just "republishing" others' work, or those just providing a website or medium through which others publish, then you use the via
parameter (e.g. YouTube, Instagram, Futon Critic when they're just republishing press releases, etc.). When to use the website
parameter is iffy... really, that should only be used when they only go by the "website name", but these days that applies to almost nobody (e.g. it's supposed to be "Deadline Hollywood", not "Deadline.com"!)! Still, sometimes we get lazy and use the website domain and the website
parameter when we should be spelling out the name and using the work
parameter... FWIW. --
IJBall (
contribs •
talk)
18:00, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
work
. For example:
[1]. Otherwise, use publisher
or via
. Like in the case of the episode listings from The Futon Critic and episode guides from Zap2it, there's no author mentioned anywhere. In the case of The Futon Critic, it does have "The Futon Critic Staff" on the press releases, but with no specific author, we'd still just use publisher
or via
.
Amaury (
talk |
contribs)
19:07, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
work
, even though we leave the author
parameter blank. But for those other examples, basically yes. For press releases, just ignore any listed "authors" (you see that a lot more at Zap2It/TV by the Numbers, and it's really annoying, as those authors are just "quoting" a press release in its entirety!!), and for those you definitely use via
with the publisher
being whomever really released the press release (usually a TV network, or sometimes a production company...). --
IJBall (
contribs •
talk)
19:13, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
work
; but if it's just a listing of the ratings (directly from Nielsen) with nothing else added on top of that, I'd use publisher
, like we do with episode air date listings... --
IJBall (
contribs •
talk)
19:27, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
work
since there's: NETWORK FINALS: NBC’s NHL PLAYOFFS game lost 0.1 in final numbers. CABLE HIGHLIGHTS: The NBA PLAYOFFS have arrived, and ESPN’s trio of games dominated Saturday cable at 1.60/1.24/1.16, with the Miami vs. Philadelphia game at the top. A&E’s LIVE PD shed 0.04 to 0.63...(And even when the ratings are in a comment from Mitch Salem, the one who writes that text for broadcast and cable, because a particular airing didn't make the top 150, it'd still be
work
since it's the same site.) Likewise, with TV by the Numbers, we have,
for example
Archived 2018-05-02 at
WebCite: It was a down week in the Tuesday cable ratings for “WWE Smackdown.” The weekly USA broadcast took a minor hit and fell two-tenths from its previous 1.0 to a 0.8 rating in adults 18-49 with 2.55 million viewers...Now, with The Futon Critic, it looks like it'd definitely be
publisher
. For example, see
here. It's just listing the ratings.
Amaury (
talk |
contribs)
19:40, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
via
/publisher
point...) In terms of TV by the Numbers, I think it's work
– not only is there TbtN's written prose "analysis", but even their "colored boxes" thing in the ratings tables can be considered "original" (by them) "analysis" of the ratings figures... --
IJBall (
contribs •
talk)
22:18, 26 April 2018 (UTC)Oh, hey! What about Copyright Office? Amaury ( talk | contribs) 00:54, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
This website, which is where I learned the difference a while ago, states: The premise and the plot of a book are two different things. The premise is the concept of the book. The plot, on the other hand, is what happens in the book — all the events that make up the story.
Obviously, that's not exclusive to books and can apply to TV series as well. So I totally understand that. The premise is the concept, or outline; the plot is what actually makes up the story. It seems obvious to me that one-liners or similar sentences, like at Hunter Street, are 100% premise, but when it comes to ones with several sentences, I'm having trouble determining if they're a premise and plot. (Although I do realize that the length of the section doesn't necessarily determine whether it's a premise or a plot.) And it doesn't look like I'm alone as that website goes on to say: It’s pretty easy to get mixed up between what the premise of a book is and what the plot is — especially if you’re dealing with a book where the plot is very premise-driven — like a murder mystery with a twist ending where the twist is the point. Or a non-fiction book, where the premise and the plot can be the same thing — ‘Here’s what happened during WWI!’
. What are some tips you have on determining what is what?
I'll try my hand first to see if you think I'm right or wrong by listing below what I think the proper heading is for each series, ignoring whether it already is that or not. In bold are ones I've already changed today or recently to that header title, though it doesn't mean I'm necessarily right. The ones you've already changed to premise or that don't even have a section I'm not including below.
So that's what I think they should be if I'm understanding the difference right, again, regardless of whether or not they're already named that. Where am I right and where am I wrong? Thanks in advance. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 21:03, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
You thought the 5:30–7:30 PM scheduling in early 2017 was bad? Say hello to summer 2018 scheduling! (Technically, summer doesn't begin until June 21, but you get the idea.) These are all from Nick and More, so take them with a grain of salt as they're subject to change. There's currently nothing on the reliable guides.
General comments:
Amaury ( talk | contribs) 19:20, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
I think we can make an exception here and start a recurring cast list with him listed with only three appearances as of tonight's episode. And perhaps Lou as well, but not sure. Like was done with Lincoln Melcher (Griff) on Bunk'd because of his role, Tomaso Sanelli (Nate) has a pretty prominent role on the series. Shawn Lawrence (Lou) also seems to be along the same things, but not 100% on him. Thoughts? Amaury ( talk | contribs) 01:49, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
As a followup, it's really odd. The series announcement had Tomaso Sanelli in the article, and when names are mentioned in those announcement articles, it means they are main actors. However, Tomaso Sanelli is not in the opening credits, and then even more odd, two of the main actors from the credits weren't even mentioned in the article. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 02:04, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
Not really related to the above discussion, and I wonder how I added this to my watchlist, but there's been an IP adding unconstructive personal opinions, which I'm interpreting as vandalism, to the article over the last few days. May need another eye or two on this one. MPFitz1968 ( talk) 14:48, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
There was a marathon on the main Nickelodeon channel last Sunday, April 15. Thought you might be interested in this. Average for the marathon was 0.86 million viewers, slightly better than the average of 0.82 million viewers for the Saturday premieres on April 14 (Henry Danger: 1.061 million, Knight Squad: 0.800 million, Star Falls: 0.597 million). There's something wrong with this picture. xD Amaury ( talk | contribs) 04:25, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
Well I put “Green” in the “Cast” section on the Legends of the Hidden Temple (film) adaptation page hence the fact that the movie is based off the game show and therefore featured real versions of the team animals. The green monkey (named Mikey), red jaguar (not sure why they used a cougar), and orange iguana were played by real animals while the purple parrot, blue barracudas, and silver snakes were computer-animated. Alec Borden ( talk) 22:18, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
Thank you for undoing my unintentional vandalism! I had an add-on on my Chrome that turns the name "Trump" back to Donald Trump's original name "Drumpf", and somehow it appears that in my editing, this change was made to an unrelated use of the word "trump" inside of a URL! — Preceding unsigned comment added by CouplandForever ( talk • contribs) 00:05, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
Just an FYI: Hello. Edit summaries would certainly be useful. Also, I find the whole "this is an X page that lists Y" redundant. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 17:42, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
@ Amaury: re: List of Henry Danger characters – something needs to be added to that to indicate the first names of the two Hart parents, as both were later credited that way, and I believe that's also how Mr. Hart is credited in The Adventures of Kid Danger... -- IJBall ( contribs • talk) 18:15, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
Just a heads up that this was created today. It's the dramedy Splitting Up Together originated from. Seems okay to me so far. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 16:17, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
Hey! Could you take a look at this? A likely sockpuppet keeps adding an image of questionable copyright to the article. The image is already up for deletion at Commons, and the user added to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Vanillablu. Cheers! --‖ Ebyabe talk - Opposites Attract ‖ 07:06, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
Hey IJBall,
I was hoping you might chime in on this discussion being had in regards to deleting a page for the upcoming Netflix film First Ladies. I created a draft earlier today due to the fact that there is no word that the film has actually begun filming. Noticed later in the day that someone had went ahead and created a article in the mainspace. Hope to get your input in the discussion over at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/First Ladies (film). Thanks, BoogerD ( talk) 01:27, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
Speaking of Jessie, I've got a sandbox page for a list of characters article as I have plans on splitting the article as the characters section is definitely long enough as of now. However, that may not be needed if were to clean out those in the "Recurring" and "Guest stars" sections who definitely don't belong and see how long of a page that puts us at after the cleanup.
For reference, of the LOC articles we have now for Nickelodeon and Disney Channel series, here is the number of bytes/characters for each, as of this message:
Article | Bytes |
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List of Backstage characters | 10,969 |
List of Girl Meets World characters | 29,543 |
List of Henry Danger characters | 8,542 |
List of Lab Rats characters | 37,204 |
List of Liv and Maddie characters | 40,965 |
List of Mighty Med characters | 47,788 |
List of The Thundermans characters | 11,098 |
My LOC Jessie sandbox page is at 17,602 bytes—17,757 bytes if you include the characters image, but you can't have those in sandboxes. As of now, it has more bytes than three of the pages above, and if LOC pages are appropriate for those three, an LOC page is definitely appropriate for Jessie. But that's right now, and that might change once we clean out characters who don't actually belong.
When you have time, looking at List of Jessie episodes, who should be removed from the "Recurring" and "Guest stars" sections? If there are any that should be added—probably not, though—that's also fair game. In other words, who's actually recurring, and of those who aren't recurring, who's actually notable enough to be listed in the "Guest stars" section? Like what was done with Bunk'd. I know there are definitely some who shouldn't be listed. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 19:25, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
Recurring and Notable List
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New Recurring and Notable List
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I was noticing going thru that article, and then season articles generated ( Growing Pains (season 1), Growing Pains (season 2), Growing Pains (season 3), Growing Pains (season 4), Growing Pains (season 5), Growing Pains (season 6), Growing Pains (season 7)), that the user creating the season articles went thru a WP:BOLD WP:SPLIT, without making any attribution of where the text in the season articles came from - looks like it was pretty much copied from the LoE article - or seeking to split via the talk page. This split occurred more than six months ago.
I was planning on fixing the LoE articles so that the info from the season articles is properly transcluded, but wasn't sure about the validity of the season articles, since they were improperly split from the LoE. What got my attention is when I saw the air date for one episode from season 4 ("Second Chance") was incorrect - should be April 19, 1989, instead of April 12, 1989, after checking TV Guide - but in checking that, I realized that I would have to change that in two places, the way the articles are set up right now.
BTW, I'm catching some episodes of the series (including the aforementioned "Second Chance" - which featured Matthew Perry before Friends) on Antenna TV, which I'm getting via the Instant TV that is part of my Comcast Internet service. MPFitz1968 ( talk) 08:51, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
...and the 'Guest cast' section is entirely unsourced and does not even include which episodes those "guest stars" appeared.Exactly why I believe guest stars being listed in the episode tables is a must rather than just in a guest section or what have you, and trying to use the common argument that the parameter is meant for summaries is arguing over a technicality, like what Nyu mentioned in one of the discussions. It is needed for verification. How do I know if Actor X as Character Y is actually a recurring character (5+ appearances, typically) if I don't have an episode table to check? The answer is I don't. You can't expect people to just take your word that they're recurring. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 14:24, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Andi Mack#Cyrus Goodman. In case there's anything you want to add. I basically said, if I understood you correctly, what you said somewhere a while ago. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 14:05, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
Hello. A while back I had a discussion with you regarding formatting of filmography tables, and I remember you saying that you originally formatted the example in WP:FILMOGRAPHY. Another editor reverted a formating edit I did, where I listed all an actors television films as 'Television film', changing from 'Movie (network)'. They then changed the example in WP:FILMOGRAPHY to reflect this, saying that the original formatting was redundant. Whilst I personally prefer the phrasing 'Television film', it is not that important either way, but I would like to be able to be consistent, as I edit quite a few actor articles where they appear in several TV films. Has there been some discussion/consensus on this that I can not find? Sorry to bother you, but I was just looking for clarification, and would like to avoid any potential edit wars. Many thanks. AutumnKing ( talk) 06:51, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
ACTRIAL:
Deletion tags
Backlog drive:
Editathons
Paid editing - new policy
Subject-specific notability guidelines
Not English
News
Is this a series you watched? If so, can you confirm the latest edits by Generale Lee with the addition to the Recurring section? Amaury ( talk | contribs) 14:43, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
Whoo! Amaury ( talk | contribs) 23:31, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
A lot of people are speculating cancellation, but even he didn't mention the word: https://twitter.com/nickandmore/status/1000065126375002112 Amaury ( talk | contribs) 23:06, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
Well, that solves that. Fingers crossed it's renewed. I mean, it's not doing that much worse than Knight Squad, and it's not doing too well itself, unless Nickelodeon is considering its numbers good given the general ratings decline plus that Nielsen's last sample update wasn't exactly on Nickelodeon's side. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 05:25, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
Hi IJBall. I saw you reverted my edit on Chris Wood (actor) as 'unsourced', but I noticed at least this source that seems to confirm the statement. Trijnstel talk 15:58, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
partner
parameter is for either. --
IJBall (
contribs •
talk)
16:00, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
That's interesting. Looks like there was a change made as episode table headers now have a black border. Have a look at any of our watched TV series articles—you can't miss it. Previously, it was the same shade as the episode table body. I kind of like it. Perhaps it was done because the gray borders didn't look or contrast that well with most of the colors or shades used for the header—for example, yellow. Looks like it's coded as well depending on what color or shade the header is used. If you take a look at I Am Frankie and then compare it to, say, List of K.C. Undercover episodes, you should notice an obvious difference, particularly between each column with the header cells. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 14:41, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
https://deadline.com/2018/06/cyma-zarghami-departs-nickelodeon-1202403072/ Amaury ( talk | contribs) 20:12, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
Ignoring the MOS:BOLD issue, do you think notes like this are trivial? Amaury ( talk | contribs) 23:42, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
Nothing official has been announced yet on Deadline Hollywood, et al., but this seems to indirectly confirm S3. I realize Just Jared is WP:NOTRS, but if you look here, the official—verified—Disney Channel PR Twitter retweeted it, so we may be able to use it? Pinging Geraldo Perez as well. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 16:19, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
This seems to be more telling on Bizaardvark, though the words renewed aren't specifically stated. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 19:53, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
It's official now. I'll be updating the article shortly. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 16:44, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
New Bizaardvark cast confirmed. At 10:27 on this video from Disney Channel's official YouTube on May 12, 2018. Add: And at 23:17, we see the new Bunk'd cast. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 22:34, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. The thread is Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring#User:Harmony944 reported by User:Amaury (Result: ). Thank you. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 15:18, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
Proof. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 16:36, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
These additions probably need to be reviewed based on their number of guest star appearances. Also, unlike animation, I think you'll agree with me in this case that "portrayed by" is pointless. Add: For example, Omar is just a plant with no credit, similar to Jessie and Mr. Kipling, except it was only in a small amount of episodes and is only a plant, not an animal. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 19:17, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
Okay, I'm curious about something. If IMBD is not a WP:RS then why is a link to her IMBD in the External Links section? That's where I got the DOB from considering the link was already on her Wikipedia page. From my perspective that says the information it contains hasn't been challenged and is thereby accurate. So I assume that if it's not a RS then the link should be removed as well, right? Snickers2686 ( talk) 20:54, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
Hi IJBall,
Just thought you should know the random ip address that your reverted is blocked for 31 hours due to personal attacks toward me. He or she has been disruptive editing various articles on Wikipedia. —
Lbtocth
talk
14:50, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
Seems they're back to it again. See article history for Judge Mathis and the latest discussion on their talk page: User talk:Harmony944#More edit warring after block. Not really sure what to do about them. I'll ping NeilN as well since he was the one who blocked them last. Hope you don't mind, Neil. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 16:42, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
I'm talking about the initial removal of the fluff. It's not a direct undoing. This was clearly a regular edit-- Harmony944 ( talk) 17:31, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
Hello IJBall, thank you for your work reviewing New Pages!
We can see the light at the end of the tunnel: there are currently 2900 unreviewed articles, and 4000 unreviewed redirects.
Announcing the Backlog Elimination Drive!
Go here to remove your name if you wish to opt-out of future mailings. — Insertcleverphrasehere ( or here) 06:57, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
Article's history here:
We have a non-autoconfirmed editor overwriting what is currently a redirect to Bizaardvark, attempting to make a full article about her and ignoring the note in there about the draft article at Draft:Olivia Rodrigo. MPFitz1968 ( talk) 09:43, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
In case there are more problems with this, I'll also ping Amaury and Geraldo Perez. Could you please keep an eye on this as well? MPFitz1968 ( talk) 09:51, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
Would you agree with that I have Henry, Wes, and Lisa Apple as recurring based on this? Henry and Lisa have been in four episodes so far and are bound to continue appearing. Same with Wes, except he's only at three right now; however, he seems to have a major (guest) role, like Griff in Bunk'd when he was added early. It's pretty much the same as the live article, except I'm not including Charlotte who's only had two appearances. Amaury ( talk | contribs) 22:46, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
May need to keep an eye on this article after I made a WP:BOLD removal of the "drunk driver" detail from the plot ( [4]), which I subsequently brought up on the show's talk page. An IP has reinserted the content since ( [5]), which I immediately reverted. MPFitz1968 ( talk) 17:02, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
This looks like such a good series from Amazon Prime, and, according to Nick and More, it's coming to Universal Kids tonight. New episodes every Saturday 9:00 PM–12:00 AM. Unfortunately, our DirecTV package doesn't have it! :( Amaury ( talk | contribs) 16:53, 23 June 2018 (UTC)