For the discussion please use my German discussion site.
de:Benutzer Diskussion:FranciscoWelterSchultes
On 12 September 2010, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Svenska Spindlar, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page ( here's how, quick check ) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page. |
TheDYKUpdateBot 12:02, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
On 12 September 2010, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Araneus angulatus, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page ( here's how, quick check ) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page. |
TheDYKUpdateBot 12:02, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Just a casual comment to your post on Taxacom regarding the problems you seem to have faced while editing Wikipedia. In general I would think that contributing to scientific topics is far easier than working on history, nationality, religion or other typically partisan (subjective (?) or where there are no instruments to measure properties or algorithms to draw conclusions) subjects. Following the standard scholarly approaches seems to work in most cases and where you do need to debate a topic, I have found that trying to claim expertise is the single worst thing to do in a debate and a useful guide perhaps is to stay on the top end of what has been called "Graham's hierarchy of disagreement". Glad you seem to have taken to editing here (judging by the DYKs). Let me know if there is any way in which I can be of help. Good day! Shyamal ( talk) 05:32, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
I have just realised following your edits at Centuria Insectorum that the source youcited to back up the statements you added states it was "Last modified 18-06-2011 by F. Welter Schultes". This would normally be a breach of WP:SPS, so perhaps you could let me know what sources you used to write that page, so that I can fix the article as soon as possible. Thanks in advance. -- Stemonitis ( talk) 20:45, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
Then, critically, there is no published source that has stated this fact. This was your own research, using a publicly accessible database, which you have published on (effectively) your own website. I don't doubt the facts that you are reporting, but these are unfortunately not sources that we can cite on Wikipedia. -- Stemonitis ( talk) 05:49, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia's policy on neutral point of view exists precisely to prevent fringe theories gaining too much prominence here. I haven't seen a lot of flat-earth propaganda here, and I doubt that it's a big problem. If scientists do find it hard to contribute here (which I also doubt; I am a biologist myself), then it is more likely to do with the differences in philosophy. For someone used to drawing their own conclusions, it is something of a change to only report other people's published ideas. I actually think Wikipedia is doing rather well on articles in the natural sciences. There is a huge amount of room for improvement, but in comparison to traditional encyclopaedias, it does well. It covers thousands of less well known organisms that would traditionally be ignored; it goes into far more detail than a paper encyclopaedia would have room for; and it is able to keep up-to-date much better than a traditionally published work. If Wikipedia does have a bad reputation amogn scientists, I think it mostly comes from a misunderstanding of Wikipedia's aims, or from people being swayed simply by the repetition of the claim that it has a bad reputation. -- Stemonitis ( talk) 05:50, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
As a biologist, I would happily write that the book is present in a dozen libraries, and not feel the need to provide a citation. As a writer or editor of an encyclopaedia with Wikipedia's policies, I cannot write that, at least not without a reliable source having said so independently. It's a hard distinction to make, but it is a valuable and important one. Whether you choose to believe it or not, I did not ask you the question purely as an excuse for undoing your edit; I sincerely hoped that you would then provide an admissible reference that could be used to improve the article. The article isn't perfect, and I always welcome suggestions about its improvement (without asserting ownership, of course). You drew my attention, for instance, to the fact that the question of priority wasn't dealt with clearly, and I am glad that as a result of our interactions, that element is now improved. To the rest of your answer, I am unable to comment, since I cannot know what incidents you are referring to. I consider equilibrating my edits with flat-Earth propaganda to be particularly inapposite. -- Stemonitis ( talk) 17:52, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
Hey Kryp! I'm just dropping you a message because you've commented on (or expressed an interest in) the Article Feedback Tool in the past. If you don't have any interest in it any more, ignore the rest of this message :).
If you do still have an interest or an opinion, good or bad, we're holding an office hours session tomorrow at 19:00 GMT/UTC in #wikimedia-office to discuss completely changing the system. In attendance will be myself, Howie Fung and Fabrice Florin. All perspectives, opinions and comments are welcome :).
I appreciate that not everyone can make it to that session - it's in work hours for most of North and South America, for example - so if you're interested in having another session at a more America-friendly time of day, leave me a message on my talkpage. I hope to see you there :). Regards, Okeyes (WMF) ( talk) 14:27, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
I'm raising this here, rather than at Talk:Synonym (taxonomy), because it's really about the topic rather than the article. What I'm trying to do is to understand precisely the position you hold on synonyms under the ICZN. I've read the Taxacom discussion, as well as a number of others. As an outsider, I can see that a) zoologists disagree as to what counts as a synonym at the species-group level b) actual usage by many sources normally considered reliable (IUCN, Avibase, etc.) for species names governed by the zoological code is actually the same as the botanical code c) there are complex arguments as to why (b) is wrong.
Consider the following argument, which seems to me as logical as the one you set out at Talk:Synonym (taxonomy).
Now go back to Step 3 and choose definition (3) from the glossary entry for name. It is immediately clear that this definition does not lead to Felis leo and Panthera leo being synonyms. The generic names are clearly not synonyms; the specific names are precisely identical (not because they are lexically the same as some people seem to have thought in the Taxacom discussion, but, as you said there, because they are produced by the same name-bearing type) so they aren't synonyms.
So I conclude that from the ICZN it can be shown, by simply substituting in definitions in the glossary, that Felis leo and Panthera leo are synonymous species names (binomina) but obviously not synonymous specific names.
Hence I cannot see that we can use the ICZN as a reliable source for a simple statement that under the ICZN Felis leo and Panthera leo are not synonyms.
Nor can we use your opinion or my opinion, because, as per your discussion with Stemonitis, rightly or wrongly Wikipedia can only report information available in reliable sources. So I'm a bit stuck. Peter coxhead ( talk) 23:28, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
Your remarks on the exact spelling of Trochulus lubomirskii/Trochulus lubomirski are very welcome. Once a binomial is misspelled, it can be copied numerous times on the internet, leading to much confusion afterwards. Personally, I have asked to correct a number of times misspelled names of species in WoRMS while writing an article on the concerned species. Such requests were always received thankfully. I've done the same a few times for secondary homonyms (such as Ceriothopsis infrequens (C.B. Adams, 1852) and Ceriothopsis infrequens Rolàn, Espinosa & Fernandez-Garcés, 2007). Another homonymy required an application to the ICZN. And another homonymy existed since 1872 and had obviously not been noticed before ( Eulimella polita de Folin, 1870 and Eulimella polita (A.E. Verrill, 1872) ). I consider it very important to note such discrepancies, as you have done this time. Well done. JoJan ( talk) 15:38, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
Hello, since you are someone who seems to understand zoological nomenclature, I wonder if you would have time to look at Nominal species. This is a mysterious term to us botanists. Nominal species redirects to a section on the Species page where I have just removed the phrase "nominal species" because I think it was quite misleading. I'm wondering whether something could be done with the page International Code of Zoological Nomenclature, which uses that and similar phrases often without defining them, or perhaps there simply needs to be a page called Nominal species which defines the term. Best wishes, Sminthopsis84 ( talk) 22:03, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
Hello, Kryp. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
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For the discussion please use my German discussion site.
de:Benutzer Diskussion:FranciscoWelterSchultes
On 12 September 2010, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Svenska Spindlar, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page ( here's how, quick check ) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page. |
TheDYKUpdateBot 12:02, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
On 12 September 2010, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Araneus angulatus, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page ( here's how, quick check ) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page. |
TheDYKUpdateBot 12:02, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Just a casual comment to your post on Taxacom regarding the problems you seem to have faced while editing Wikipedia. In general I would think that contributing to scientific topics is far easier than working on history, nationality, religion or other typically partisan (subjective (?) or where there are no instruments to measure properties or algorithms to draw conclusions) subjects. Following the standard scholarly approaches seems to work in most cases and where you do need to debate a topic, I have found that trying to claim expertise is the single worst thing to do in a debate and a useful guide perhaps is to stay on the top end of what has been called "Graham's hierarchy of disagreement". Glad you seem to have taken to editing here (judging by the DYKs). Let me know if there is any way in which I can be of help. Good day! Shyamal ( talk) 05:32, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
I have just realised following your edits at Centuria Insectorum that the source youcited to back up the statements you added states it was "Last modified 18-06-2011 by F. Welter Schultes". This would normally be a breach of WP:SPS, so perhaps you could let me know what sources you used to write that page, so that I can fix the article as soon as possible. Thanks in advance. -- Stemonitis ( talk) 20:45, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
Then, critically, there is no published source that has stated this fact. This was your own research, using a publicly accessible database, which you have published on (effectively) your own website. I don't doubt the facts that you are reporting, but these are unfortunately not sources that we can cite on Wikipedia. -- Stemonitis ( talk) 05:49, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia's policy on neutral point of view exists precisely to prevent fringe theories gaining too much prominence here. I haven't seen a lot of flat-earth propaganda here, and I doubt that it's a big problem. If scientists do find it hard to contribute here (which I also doubt; I am a biologist myself), then it is more likely to do with the differences in philosophy. For someone used to drawing their own conclusions, it is something of a change to only report other people's published ideas. I actually think Wikipedia is doing rather well on articles in the natural sciences. There is a huge amount of room for improvement, but in comparison to traditional encyclopaedias, it does well. It covers thousands of less well known organisms that would traditionally be ignored; it goes into far more detail than a paper encyclopaedia would have room for; and it is able to keep up-to-date much better than a traditionally published work. If Wikipedia does have a bad reputation amogn scientists, I think it mostly comes from a misunderstanding of Wikipedia's aims, or from people being swayed simply by the repetition of the claim that it has a bad reputation. -- Stemonitis ( talk) 05:50, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
As a biologist, I would happily write that the book is present in a dozen libraries, and not feel the need to provide a citation. As a writer or editor of an encyclopaedia with Wikipedia's policies, I cannot write that, at least not without a reliable source having said so independently. It's a hard distinction to make, but it is a valuable and important one. Whether you choose to believe it or not, I did not ask you the question purely as an excuse for undoing your edit; I sincerely hoped that you would then provide an admissible reference that could be used to improve the article. The article isn't perfect, and I always welcome suggestions about its improvement (without asserting ownership, of course). You drew my attention, for instance, to the fact that the question of priority wasn't dealt with clearly, and I am glad that as a result of our interactions, that element is now improved. To the rest of your answer, I am unable to comment, since I cannot know what incidents you are referring to. I consider equilibrating my edits with flat-Earth propaganda to be particularly inapposite. -- Stemonitis ( talk) 17:52, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
Hey Kryp! I'm just dropping you a message because you've commented on (or expressed an interest in) the Article Feedback Tool in the past. If you don't have any interest in it any more, ignore the rest of this message :).
If you do still have an interest or an opinion, good or bad, we're holding an office hours session tomorrow at 19:00 GMT/UTC in #wikimedia-office to discuss completely changing the system. In attendance will be myself, Howie Fung and Fabrice Florin. All perspectives, opinions and comments are welcome :).
I appreciate that not everyone can make it to that session - it's in work hours for most of North and South America, for example - so if you're interested in having another session at a more America-friendly time of day, leave me a message on my talkpage. I hope to see you there :). Regards, Okeyes (WMF) ( talk) 14:27, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
I'm raising this here, rather than at Talk:Synonym (taxonomy), because it's really about the topic rather than the article. What I'm trying to do is to understand precisely the position you hold on synonyms under the ICZN. I've read the Taxacom discussion, as well as a number of others. As an outsider, I can see that a) zoologists disagree as to what counts as a synonym at the species-group level b) actual usage by many sources normally considered reliable (IUCN, Avibase, etc.) for species names governed by the zoological code is actually the same as the botanical code c) there are complex arguments as to why (b) is wrong.
Consider the following argument, which seems to me as logical as the one you set out at Talk:Synonym (taxonomy).
Now go back to Step 3 and choose definition (3) from the glossary entry for name. It is immediately clear that this definition does not lead to Felis leo and Panthera leo being synonyms. The generic names are clearly not synonyms; the specific names are precisely identical (not because they are lexically the same as some people seem to have thought in the Taxacom discussion, but, as you said there, because they are produced by the same name-bearing type) so they aren't synonyms.
So I conclude that from the ICZN it can be shown, by simply substituting in definitions in the glossary, that Felis leo and Panthera leo are synonymous species names (binomina) but obviously not synonymous specific names.
Hence I cannot see that we can use the ICZN as a reliable source for a simple statement that under the ICZN Felis leo and Panthera leo are not synonyms.
Nor can we use your opinion or my opinion, because, as per your discussion with Stemonitis, rightly or wrongly Wikipedia can only report information available in reliable sources. So I'm a bit stuck. Peter coxhead ( talk) 23:28, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
Your remarks on the exact spelling of Trochulus lubomirskii/Trochulus lubomirski are very welcome. Once a binomial is misspelled, it can be copied numerous times on the internet, leading to much confusion afterwards. Personally, I have asked to correct a number of times misspelled names of species in WoRMS while writing an article on the concerned species. Such requests were always received thankfully. I've done the same a few times for secondary homonyms (such as Ceriothopsis infrequens (C.B. Adams, 1852) and Ceriothopsis infrequens Rolàn, Espinosa & Fernandez-Garcés, 2007). Another homonymy required an application to the ICZN. And another homonymy existed since 1872 and had obviously not been noticed before ( Eulimella polita de Folin, 1870 and Eulimella polita (A.E. Verrill, 1872) ). I consider it very important to note such discrepancies, as you have done this time. Well done. JoJan ( talk) 15:38, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
Hello, since you are someone who seems to understand zoological nomenclature, I wonder if you would have time to look at Nominal species. This is a mysterious term to us botanists. Nominal species redirects to a section on the Species page where I have just removed the phrase "nominal species" because I think it was quite misleading. I'm wondering whether something could be done with the page International Code of Zoological Nomenclature, which uses that and similar phrases often without defining them, or perhaps there simply needs to be a page called Nominal species which defines the term. Best wishes, Sminthopsis84 ( talk) 22:03, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
Hello, Kryp. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
If you wish to participate in the 2018 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 18:42, 19 November 2018 (UTC)