Archives 09 July 2005 thru 19:59, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Fra nkB 19:27, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
Other talk page archives:
Hello. Thanks for your note. I'm afraid I simply do not have the time to be involved in more than the handful of projects I work on now. I looked at the Talk page to see if it was perhaps a relatively straightforward issue I could make a quick contribution to, but it's an involved dispute that will take too much time if I'm to contribute meaningfully. Thank you for asking anyway. Regards,~ Neuroscientist | T | C July 7, 2005 18:04 (UTC)
Thank you; the versions are mentioned on the Talk page under the section Which Version, and should still be current. Since the fundamental cause of difference is the order of the whole article after the section=head Criticisms, the diff is not likely to be particularly informative, I regret to say. Try reading each version separately, and see which is clear (if either, he said modestly).
My most recent version is this one which is also "[http://tinyurl_com/c6wl5 here]", in tinyurl.
I see WHEELER is also back, if you have encountered him
This appears to be right.
Septentrionalis 7 July 2005 19:25 (UTC)
Thank you for your explanation dated Jul 6. I know her purpose, but,
I think that we should solve one by one, ie. the singular/plural issue first and the naming second.
And thank you again for information about the strait. Im sorry but I am very busy now. It will continue 2 or 4 weeks. After that, I would like to visit there.
Anyway I found two old pictures you may be interested in. ( [1], [2]) The first one is the first brige over Manzeki-seto. So we can see the original Manzeki-seto. There are no explanation for the second one, but I think it is of the new bridge under construction. It may be taken two or three years earlier than 1975, the year when the canal was widened. Baru 02:58, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
Hello, and excuse a delay. Sorry, but i can't help much. I have not a book "Port Artur" right now, only Rusian sources about ships, not treaties. However, I think (possibly I've read somewhere), that Russians started works only after lease 1898. And I haven't seen Russian sources on it...
However, getting back to a battle of Port Arthur - I might enhance the naval part of the article, with all naval activities until the fall of Port Arthur, but I'm not sure, if it might be still under a title "battle of Port Arthur" then. And I think, that "Impact on History" section treats in fact on siege of Port Arthur and possibly should be moved there? Pibwl ←« 16:47, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
I have another idea: I think we should place all later naval activities at Port Arthur, after the openning battle, as a chapter in siege of Port Arthur (I mean, sinking of Petropavlovsk and Japanese battleships on mines, etc). By the way, I've just noticed, that improving battle of Port Arthur, I focussed on night torpedo attack only (Russian losses mentioned are from this attack), but I should also expand the subject of another-day battle (which brought no losses, apart from some artillery damage).
How detailed are those books? I want to do a table of stregth for each side, up through battle of Tsushima. i.e displacement, speed, heavy guns, med. guns, which were Armored Cruisers, Protected Cruisers, Older/Newer Ships, etc.
VERY detailed :-) See here: [3] If you don't read Cyrilic, I can help you with data, names etc.
Some of my sources use various alternate terms such as 'First Class Cruiser', 'Second Class Cruiser',
1st class were Russian stronger protected cruisers, 2nd class were light ones, like Novik and armed yachts like Almaz. Pibwl ←« 22:14, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
-- Pitan 03:14, 19 July 2005 (UTC) says (Interleaved) re: Thank you for your creation of Gotō-rettō, but we already have Goto-Retto (We don't use macrons in the title.
re: See Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles)). Hirado-jima is a single island near Kyushu, and is not a part of Goto-Retto. See also Goto, Nagasaki, Shinkamigoto, Nagasaki and Hirado, Nagasaki. -- Pitan 03:14, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
Please merge the articles if you don't mind. I agree with you that the second capital is inappropriate, and it is necessary to make proper redirects. I'm puzzled too, that there is no consensus on titles for Japanese islands. -- Pitan 06:17, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure that ETTan ( talk · contribs) is our old (or young) friend. See what you think. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 10:27, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
I'm pretty new in Wiki. There are only 2 articles I'd commented about: Taoism and Tao Te Ching as I'd already working on these 2 topics for years. For me, its kind of weird to translate the chinese character ? , which means nothing, as empty. This is the main reason that I insist on the changes. Besides, I also provide other reasons, which are established knowledge among taoist scholars, in my discussions. Hopefully, you are not taking grudge against all chinese just because of some bad examples. Please read my comments properly and consult some real experts, who have to know classical chinese, if possible. Finally, I demand an apology from Mel for throwing mud at me.
-- ETTan 15:40, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
Hey, thanks for the birthday greetings. :) Sure, I'll take a look at those articles for copyediting tonight. (First, my mother wants to check her email, haha.) -- User:Jenmoa 23:21, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
I'm really sorry that I'm so dreadfully late in replying to your questions. I've been doing translations for people fighting over heaps and piles of money, which really took away a lot of my time because I also do in-house translation work from 9:00 to 5:00.
I also have to confess that I am not very familiar with these historical events. I am trying to work from credible and available sources, so you can verify most of the information.
1. when the Russians started building the Railway between Harbin and Chita, Harbin and Vladivostok? (Once known as 'Manchurian Railway' now called China Far East Railway)
According to the Kodansha Encyclopedia of Japan entry on the Chinese Eastern Railway (CER), "In 1896 Russia gained permission from China to extend the Trans-Siberian Railroad through China directly across northern Manchuria to Vladivostok." The article does not state when they actually start building. This is probably related to the answer to your next question.
2. when they moved into Port Arthur and started upgrading it's harbor, port, town, etc. (which seems to have been well before (2-3 years?) the actual lease
Kwantung Leased Territory of 1898).
This was the hard one. I had trouble finding information that supported what you wrote (that the Russians moved in to Port Arthur at least several years before 1898)
After quite a bit of searching, found an interesting blurb on the ja.wikipedia entry for Triple Intervention. The article states (translated from Japanese), "Russia, which signed the Li Hongzhang - Lobanoff (or Lobanow) treaty in 1896, which was a secret agreement, later succeeded in the lease of Ryojun (Port Arthur) and Dalian in 1898. Russia subsequently spread its sphere of influence to Manchuria and areas north of the Great Wall, and realized its ambitions in the far east."
On other Japanese websites, I was able to confirm that the secret treaty is also called the Cassini Treaty. I then was able to find several English websites that used the name "Cassini Convention" According to information I found on Japanese websites, the convention was apparently signed by Li Hongzhang and the Foreign Minister of Russia (whose name is Cassini, Lobanoff, Lobanow, or Witte - quite a bit of confusion here).
The most significant information I was able to find about the Cassini Convention was here. This appears to be (of all things) the 1911 Britannica.
It appears that the website does not tolerate people posting its Contents, so I will not post excerpts here. You should go to the above webpage and search for "cassini," which will take you to the portion I'm talking about. A google search for "Cassini Convention" should also uncover some interesting documents, some which are just too long to read on a whim.
3. when they actually started building a railway South from Harbin, and North from Port Arthur? (i.e. eventually became the
South Manchurian Railway)
According to the Kodansha Encyclopedia of Japan entry on the Chinese Eastern Railway (CER), "In 1898 Russia exacted Chinese consent to build another line, from Dairen (Ch: Dalian or Ta-lien; now a part of Luda) and Port Arthur north to the CER, this later became known as the South Manchurian Railway (SMR)." Again, the article does not state when they actually start building. This also appears to be related to the 1911 Britannica article I refer to in the answer to your second question.
Additionally, The Japan Center for Asian Historical Records states that Russia began to use Harbin as a base to construct the CER in 1898. Several other webpages also indicate that construction began in 1898. I am not sure of the accuracy of this information.
4. Also whether and hence when they 'actually leased' the region of the mainline 'Manchurian Railroad' through Harbin (Chita to Vladovostok), and whether that has a treaty specific name such as the Kwangtung...
According to the Kodansha Encyclopedia of Japan entry for Chinese Eastern Railway, "The Japanese conquest of Manchuria... brought Japanese power to the very border of the Soviet Union... In case of war, the Japanese could seize the railway (CER) without difficulty, and the Japanese Guandong (Kwantung) Army stationed in Manchuria could easily use the Russian railway presence to manufacture a pretext of war... Under those circumstances, the Russians sought to sell the CER to Japan. Negotiations... were concluded in March 1935 with an agreement whereby Russia sold the CER to the Japanese puppet state of Manchukuo for 140 million yen. Soon afterward it was placed under the control of the South Manchuria Railway Company."
I agree with you... the Russians initially built the South Manchurian Railway. The map on Manchukuo is written in Japanese. However, it's old, pre-war Japanese, so most non-natives will have trouble trying to read it. I will also send you scans of the Kodansha Encyclopedia of Japan articles for the South Manchuria Railway and the Chinese Eastern Railway. (Scanned them now - and discovered that I only photocopied the 1st page of the South Manchuria Railway article!! So sorry!) The 1911 Britannica article I talked about appeared to be quite detailed, so you probably want to read it (if you haven't already). I hope this information will be some use to you - at least become a good starting point for research. Atsi Otani 15:12, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
Long time no see. Sorry for not meeting your requests regarding Tsushima. I had difficulty in real life, but now I'm back to Wikipedia. I will restart fixing Tsushima-related articles next week, as currently I cannot have access to the books I referred to because libraries are closed for Bon Festival. -- Nanshu 01:50, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
I've been on Uncyclopediaand while I was there I missed you eventhough you only gave me two messages.-- Yo Mama 5000 23:49, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
It's been seven weeks since you've created the article and it is not usable nor have you done anything with it. It's going on my watchlist and unless you've goten it up to snuff in a week I'm gonna submit it to a {{ afd}} discussion. Caerwine 02:44, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
You made it pretty obvious you really did not want this page deleted. I userfied it, and it is now at User:Fabartus/Timeline of the Russo-Japanese War, and the talk page is there also. When you get it to a useful state, move it back. I also removed the stub tag from it, as this puts it in a category with stubs -- it's not actually a stub yet, just an under construction notice. :) -- Phroziac ( talk) 02:29, September 8, 2005 (UTC)
Please take care of this article. There have been a fierce edit war since August. -- Ypacaraí 23:00, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
Hi. UserTalk:Fabartus/CommunityContrib02 looks like a misnamed archive. Can I ask you to move it from the main article namespace into whereever you feel is appropriate, and request deletion of the trailing redirect? THanks. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 04:50, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
Modified
Oceanography Clean Status to reflect revisions since June 2005 <G>
RJBurkhart
13:18, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, there was apparently a software change (when I was away sometime in November) and my sig broke at the time too. Try clicking the "use raw signatures" box and then try [[User:Fabartus|Fra]]<font color="green">[[User talk:Fabartus|nkB]]</font> (note also the font tags outside of the square brackets). Hope this helps, JYolkowski // talk 01:28, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
Testing, Fra nkB Have a Hearty THANKS!!! I just added some Bold to the Blue following your lead. FrankB 20:21, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
Hi,
You posted a {{ cleanup-date}} message on this article: Moravians (religion). If you feel that it has been satisfactorily cleaned, could you please remove the notice?
Thanks, Andrewjuren 07:12, 13 March 2006 (UTC) Sure! Completed: 13 March 06
Thanks so much for your review! I understood that the lead section really needs to be improved, along with a major reconstruction and, perhaps, moving, of the principles section. I'll work on that. Like you said, some changes may imply that the article becomes NPOV, I experienced that for many times. But I'll try to make balanced changes, mainly in references to the former regime or to the party's goals. I think these are you main concerns, and surely, the concerns of the majority of those who read or started reading the article. I'll try to include those "hook facts" to improve the interest of the readers in the article.
About the american stance on socialism and communism, I think that may be a reason against a possible promotion of the article, but recently Che Guevara or Hugo Chávez became FA, so, I think that is not an absolute fact, but your point is very good. Thank you very much Afonso Silva 21:23, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
Hi, Fabartus. That's fine. The article has been improved. I put the cleanup tag on because of sentences like this:
"Over the tower climbs persistent the rumor of an originally planned, however never implemented twin tower, which is identically constructed implemented and connected with the realized building by a bridge and such binoculars as symbol for the optical tool-making represented strongly in the city Jena represent should."
My only interest in the Jen-Tower article was wikification. I found it in Category:Articles that need to be wikified. I've wikified a very large number of articles and changed the tags on a significant percentage of them, so you don't need to notify me to change or remove a tag that I have placed. Thanks, though. Thanks also for your get well wish. I suspect it will take a while, but I expect to get better. -- Kjkolb 14:17, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm not clear as to exactly what you need; are you using Windows? If so, is "Ctrl-F" not what you need? (If the answer is, as I suspect, that of course it isn't, then I'm obviously completely at sea, and you'll need to explain it to me again — sorry.) -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 19:31, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
I've just noticed that the link to Poon's page is red; following it on the assumption that I'd typed it wrongly, I discover that it was deleted at his request, as he's giving up Wikipedia — so that's certainly someone who's left (unless he's just concentrating on being Tan...).
With regard to the mess below — sorry, I didn't mean to drag you in to this. As neither of the two proposers bothered to let me know about the RfC, I had to find out about it through third parties. So far, at least, the 100% consensus among those responding is that it shouldn't have been brought, and that Mademoiselle Sabina is in fact the one responsible for the unpleasantness — which was my view too. I've given up the idea that she might come to realise this, though. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 11:25, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
Hi.
1. I learned about the RFC because someone brought it to my attention as a possible means to solve the dispute on my Talk Page. 2. Following the link to the RFC page mentions that Wikietiquette is an option to solve minor disagreements between users. I used that option because I thought it would be better than a full out RFC. I decided to pursue the RFC route after Mel put up his attack page. As to how I got around the Wiki signature file, I didn't. I edited the alert after I discovered the attack page, and again to ask if I should close it when I opened the RFC. The Nowiki code is right on the Wikietiquette page; how is this a deep dark secret newbies can't know about? 3. Sock puppet? I don't think so. I'm not even going to dignify this. 4. The fact that the user is a "tenured professor at Oxford" has no bearing on this discussion, or on the fact that he has acted deplorably. I'm focusing on his conduct here, not his status on Wikipedia or anywhere else. And frankly, if you check his Talk Page, I am not the only user who has had a problem with him over his edits and "lectures". Mademoiselle Sabina 05:24, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
In closing, IMHO, you both owe the other an apology, and agree that getting in the last word is not and was not a good idea. End story. Let's us all get back to wikiwork, not this wasted typing. The biggest part of wikietiquette is knowing when to stop an arguement, and yell for help. Haven't seen you asking another admin to intercede or mediate (as yet) but I'll get back to the RFC now that this is good enough to mail.
The more level-headed comments are at the end of this entry.
When I posted the remark in the third person, I was not trying to do anything sneaky or underhanded. I was following the format used by other entries on the page. I also felt that putting it in the third person might be an easier way to distance myself from the situation and write a valid complaint. I did the same thing in the RFC.
Now, to the more level-headed remarks.
You're right. I wasn't particularly nice to Mel; he wasn't particuarly nice to me. I basically felt that I was returning what I received from him. Perhaps he's simply testy; perhaps he's had a lot of long days; perhaps on this thing called the Internet it's impossible to really discern someone's true emotions and meaning from their words alone. One never knows.
You and the other editor on my Talk Page are absolutely right, the situation got out of control on both sides. I'm willing to admit that. However, each of us has equal responsibilty here. It's not all about me. I'm sure that editing wars, flames, etc. can get nasty on Wikipedia and this is just a drop in the bucket.
I put in the RFC and Wikietiquette requests in the hopes it would resolve the conflict; if you have any other ideas for mediation or conflict resolution, I'd be open to hearing them. Thank you for all the time you have spent with this issue. Best, Mademoiselle Sabina 07:59, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
Thank you again for your comments and your help in resolving this. Your links and comments about the difficulties of language on Wikipedia. I suppose it's one of the perils of having a site that is edited by users from different anglophone countries; there are bound to be differences and strong opinions on all sides. I have a lot to learn here.
Unfortunately, I do not wish to take down the RFC or send Mel an apology for the simple reason that he is to blame for this, too, and he has not acknowledged it. You and I both agreed that neither of us looks particularly good in this conflict. However, on the RFC page, I notice that Mel, in his response, still paints me as the Bad Guy here and maintains that he is entirely innocent of any wrongdoing. When he admits he has some liability here, and perhaps takes down his attack page, I'll be happy to speak to the other editor involved in this case and discuss closing the RFC. I respect your opinion that he is a good person; I'll reserve my own opinion on this one. Frankly I just hope to avoid him on Wiki from now on. Mademoiselle Sabina 10:59, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
One more post and then I am done for the day, really. :) Hopefully.
I left a message on my own Talk Page (I have no idea how to get to the link myself, but it's right above your comment to C. and below the comments from FloNight with the shamrock icon) basically reiterating what was said above and outlining a plan to stop this in future. In a nutshell, I suggested that perhaps we (C. and myself) sit tight, see what will come of the mediation attempts, and if that fails, see about the Close Unresolved/archiving of the RfC. I also suggested that we both simply refuse to engage in debates with Mel in future in any way, that any comments to our personal Talk Pages can be ignored if necessary, and that we keep all issues about questionable edits to the respective articles' Talk Pages.
Does that sound like a good plan? Thanks again for your help. Namaste. Mademoiselle Sabina 21:24, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
You wanted some help, here I am! How can I help you? You can ask your questions right here, and I will respond.-- Commander Keane 08:17, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
Hello. I think, that your last comment on Mademoiselle Sabina's page was referred to me, wasn't it? Then why shouldn't I wait for Mademoiselle Sabina's answer for withdrawal of my RFC? I think I should, she is also an involved part... Cmapm 17:36, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
By the way, here's her reply: [5]. I think, it's reasonable and I support her view. Cmapm 18:49, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
So, what I have to do? I've completely lost in this pointless discussion. Should I and other just users switch to other topics, be ignorant and all will be OK? Or I must do something to stop these infinite series of comments by me and other users? Cmapm 21:11, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure how what you've done will go down (strictly speaking there's no process to close RfCs, much less prematurely); still, we'll see what happens. It was clearly meant well, and I appreciate the time and effort that you've put in.
As the so-called "attack page" is seen as such by no-one except the two editors bringing the RfC, I don't see its removal as being urgent. I think that it should remain until the issue is definitely closed, though. You see, I'm afraid that I'm not interested in compromise; a silly RfC has been opened on the basis of what can most generously be described as a deep misunderstanding of what I wrote. There aren't two sides in this, between whom compromise would be necessary — there's just one side, the RfC-bringers. I have nothing to apologise for; even under personal attack I became no more than slightly testy.
The page I deleted was a redirect from the incorrectly formatted UserTalk:Fabartus/Scratchpad01 to the correctly formatted User talk:Fabartus/Scratchpad01, which is still there. It had been moved to the correctly formatted location by User:Sam Hocevar, and I then deleted the redirect as a user error, because it was your error to place it in the wrong place (UserTalk instead of User talk). Oh and I agree regarding the whitespace in the Aylesbury article, but seeing as I don't own the article personally I hadn't looked at it for a month or two. Thank you for pointing this out. -- Francs 2000 17:37, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, I'd already left. I see that someone else did it though. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 09:21, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
I don't really know, I'm afraid, but at a guess I'd say that it means that your edit was the latest on that article. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 14:51, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Well, Frank,
You are just brimming with surprises. How to manage an aquarium to the healthful aspects of eating lima beans, to the China-Trans-Siberian Railway, among other information! I've never had a conversation OR a relationship with someone who is, in essence, an author of encyclopedia articles. Wow! I admire your fountainhead.
And I have to admit, going through nursing school has yet to cure me of certain less-than-enlightened attitudes and behaviors. I am not soup yet... :~)
Best, S Gosh, Sue. Pardon me blushes. You forgot to mention measuring cups... We have a relationship? Not only am I getting senile, me sense of touch seems to hae nae more memory than de brain does! Fra nkB 02:13, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
"Can you drop me a quick list of the 1632 series articles as you now know it, or confirm the 1632 series article is complete wrt all the spin-offs."
(Do Now) <G>
Brief: I had asked for the above and got back Category:1632-163x alternative-history series; NBD, all we need is an admin to move it. Fra nkB 01:53, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Posted Answer on his talk to take this to the talk: 1632 series talks. Fra nkB
Reply: Thanks for clearing that up. I had this vision of dealing with a giant that had a 10 league stride, spanning continents in a single bound! We have a lot in common. You're about 35 miles NNW of my home town (Belle Vernon), and I'm 3/4ths Polack and 1/4tr Lithuanian, so I be looking to see you masterpiece! If you can help me prod a few people into action, I understand the demands made on a student quite well. (11+ years taking at least a half load will do that for one!) Fra nkB 01:53, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Well, the term is used in all British English (and, so far as I can tell, Australian, New Zealand, etc., English) as well as by some U.S. science-fiction authors. Note that, even apart from the Misnomer article, the Wikipedia article on Alternate history gives both forms.
See also, for example, such U.S uses as [6], [7], [8], [9], [10], etc.
I might be a little bit like "Sci-Fi" (shudder) versus "S.F." The latter tends to be used by science-fiction enthusiasts, writers, etc., while the former is the journalists' version. The former might turn out to be a much more common usage, but I still think that we should use the latter. After all, so far as I can tell, the use of "infact" and even "atlast" as single words seem to be becoming almost standard among U.S. and increasingly U.K.) undergraduates (certainly among the ones that I teach (not to mention "disinterested" to mean "uninterested", and spelling slike "existance", "arguement", etc.), but that doesn't and shouldn't affect the way that we write. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 08:56, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Fra nkB 20:17, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Yes, tnx!-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 06:01, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
So, I infer that the use of this photo for both the racer and the thunderbolt is wrong (links at bottom). But which is wrong? Thanks, and yes, it's okay if I'm wrong. I'm really just 30+ yrs overdrawn on memory. Fra nkB
I gafiated for a couple months myself, and returned to find User:rktect was (quite rightly) banned. I hope metrology has been cleaned up now, but there's too much to do. Septentrionalis 05:24, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
But it's nice to be back. Fra nkB 05:56, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
I responded on my talk page. -- JLaTondre 13:00, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
From your message re: 21:55, 27 March 2006 DakotaKahn deleted "1632-163x series underlying history. My deletion log shows no deletion at that time on 27 March.-- Dakota ~ ° 08:23, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
please vote again here
I've retrieved the text and placed it at User:Fabartus/1632-163x series underlying history. Looking at it again, there are a few points where it went against Wikipedia policy: first, never place editorial comments in articles, including signatures; secondly, the {{ inuse}} template shouldn't be set to "indefinite", as this essentially takes ownership of the article. As we've discussed, there were also problems of content, including copyright and style, but you can now work on it uninterrupted until things like that are sorted out. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 09:23, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Tnx for the news! I am not that good with bar calculation, so if you can figure out the dates for those, let me know.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 19:59, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Archives 09 July 2005 thru 19:59, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Fra nkB 19:27, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
Other talk page archives:
Hello. Thanks for your note. I'm afraid I simply do not have the time to be involved in more than the handful of projects I work on now. I looked at the Talk page to see if it was perhaps a relatively straightforward issue I could make a quick contribution to, but it's an involved dispute that will take too much time if I'm to contribute meaningfully. Thank you for asking anyway. Regards,~ Neuroscientist | T | C July 7, 2005 18:04 (UTC)
Thank you; the versions are mentioned on the Talk page under the section Which Version, and should still be current. Since the fundamental cause of difference is the order of the whole article after the section=head Criticisms, the diff is not likely to be particularly informative, I regret to say. Try reading each version separately, and see which is clear (if either, he said modestly).
My most recent version is this one which is also "[http://tinyurl_com/c6wl5 here]", in tinyurl.
I see WHEELER is also back, if you have encountered him
This appears to be right.
Septentrionalis 7 July 2005 19:25 (UTC)
Thank you for your explanation dated Jul 6. I know her purpose, but,
I think that we should solve one by one, ie. the singular/plural issue first and the naming second.
And thank you again for information about the strait. Im sorry but I am very busy now. It will continue 2 or 4 weeks. After that, I would like to visit there.
Anyway I found two old pictures you may be interested in. ( [1], [2]) The first one is the first brige over Manzeki-seto. So we can see the original Manzeki-seto. There are no explanation for the second one, but I think it is of the new bridge under construction. It may be taken two or three years earlier than 1975, the year when the canal was widened. Baru 02:58, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
Hello, and excuse a delay. Sorry, but i can't help much. I have not a book "Port Artur" right now, only Rusian sources about ships, not treaties. However, I think (possibly I've read somewhere), that Russians started works only after lease 1898. And I haven't seen Russian sources on it...
However, getting back to a battle of Port Arthur - I might enhance the naval part of the article, with all naval activities until the fall of Port Arthur, but I'm not sure, if it might be still under a title "battle of Port Arthur" then. And I think, that "Impact on History" section treats in fact on siege of Port Arthur and possibly should be moved there? Pibwl ←« 16:47, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
I have another idea: I think we should place all later naval activities at Port Arthur, after the openning battle, as a chapter in siege of Port Arthur (I mean, sinking of Petropavlovsk and Japanese battleships on mines, etc). By the way, I've just noticed, that improving battle of Port Arthur, I focussed on night torpedo attack only (Russian losses mentioned are from this attack), but I should also expand the subject of another-day battle (which brought no losses, apart from some artillery damage).
How detailed are those books? I want to do a table of stregth for each side, up through battle of Tsushima. i.e displacement, speed, heavy guns, med. guns, which were Armored Cruisers, Protected Cruisers, Older/Newer Ships, etc.
VERY detailed :-) See here: [3] If you don't read Cyrilic, I can help you with data, names etc.
Some of my sources use various alternate terms such as 'First Class Cruiser', 'Second Class Cruiser',
1st class were Russian stronger protected cruisers, 2nd class were light ones, like Novik and armed yachts like Almaz. Pibwl ←« 22:14, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
-- Pitan 03:14, 19 July 2005 (UTC) says (Interleaved) re: Thank you for your creation of Gotō-rettō, but we already have Goto-Retto (We don't use macrons in the title.
re: See Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles)). Hirado-jima is a single island near Kyushu, and is not a part of Goto-Retto. See also Goto, Nagasaki, Shinkamigoto, Nagasaki and Hirado, Nagasaki. -- Pitan 03:14, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
Please merge the articles if you don't mind. I agree with you that the second capital is inappropriate, and it is necessary to make proper redirects. I'm puzzled too, that there is no consensus on titles for Japanese islands. -- Pitan 06:17, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure that ETTan ( talk · contribs) is our old (or young) friend. See what you think. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 10:27, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
I'm pretty new in Wiki. There are only 2 articles I'd commented about: Taoism and Tao Te Ching as I'd already working on these 2 topics for years. For me, its kind of weird to translate the chinese character ? , which means nothing, as empty. This is the main reason that I insist on the changes. Besides, I also provide other reasons, which are established knowledge among taoist scholars, in my discussions. Hopefully, you are not taking grudge against all chinese just because of some bad examples. Please read my comments properly and consult some real experts, who have to know classical chinese, if possible. Finally, I demand an apology from Mel for throwing mud at me.
-- ETTan 15:40, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
Hey, thanks for the birthday greetings. :) Sure, I'll take a look at those articles for copyediting tonight. (First, my mother wants to check her email, haha.) -- User:Jenmoa 23:21, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
I'm really sorry that I'm so dreadfully late in replying to your questions. I've been doing translations for people fighting over heaps and piles of money, which really took away a lot of my time because I also do in-house translation work from 9:00 to 5:00.
I also have to confess that I am not very familiar with these historical events. I am trying to work from credible and available sources, so you can verify most of the information.
1. when the Russians started building the Railway between Harbin and Chita, Harbin and Vladivostok? (Once known as 'Manchurian Railway' now called China Far East Railway)
According to the Kodansha Encyclopedia of Japan entry on the Chinese Eastern Railway (CER), "In 1896 Russia gained permission from China to extend the Trans-Siberian Railroad through China directly across northern Manchuria to Vladivostok." The article does not state when they actually start building. This is probably related to the answer to your next question.
2. when they moved into Port Arthur and started upgrading it's harbor, port, town, etc. (which seems to have been well before (2-3 years?) the actual lease
Kwantung Leased Territory of 1898).
This was the hard one. I had trouble finding information that supported what you wrote (that the Russians moved in to Port Arthur at least several years before 1898)
After quite a bit of searching, found an interesting blurb on the ja.wikipedia entry for Triple Intervention. The article states (translated from Japanese), "Russia, which signed the Li Hongzhang - Lobanoff (or Lobanow) treaty in 1896, which was a secret agreement, later succeeded in the lease of Ryojun (Port Arthur) and Dalian in 1898. Russia subsequently spread its sphere of influence to Manchuria and areas north of the Great Wall, and realized its ambitions in the far east."
On other Japanese websites, I was able to confirm that the secret treaty is also called the Cassini Treaty. I then was able to find several English websites that used the name "Cassini Convention" According to information I found on Japanese websites, the convention was apparently signed by Li Hongzhang and the Foreign Minister of Russia (whose name is Cassini, Lobanoff, Lobanow, or Witte - quite a bit of confusion here).
The most significant information I was able to find about the Cassini Convention was here. This appears to be (of all things) the 1911 Britannica.
It appears that the website does not tolerate people posting its Contents, so I will not post excerpts here. You should go to the above webpage and search for "cassini," which will take you to the portion I'm talking about. A google search for "Cassini Convention" should also uncover some interesting documents, some which are just too long to read on a whim.
3. when they actually started building a railway South from Harbin, and North from Port Arthur? (i.e. eventually became the
South Manchurian Railway)
According to the Kodansha Encyclopedia of Japan entry on the Chinese Eastern Railway (CER), "In 1898 Russia exacted Chinese consent to build another line, from Dairen (Ch: Dalian or Ta-lien; now a part of Luda) and Port Arthur north to the CER, this later became known as the South Manchurian Railway (SMR)." Again, the article does not state when they actually start building. This also appears to be related to the 1911 Britannica article I refer to in the answer to your second question.
Additionally, The Japan Center for Asian Historical Records states that Russia began to use Harbin as a base to construct the CER in 1898. Several other webpages also indicate that construction began in 1898. I am not sure of the accuracy of this information.
4. Also whether and hence when they 'actually leased' the region of the mainline 'Manchurian Railroad' through Harbin (Chita to Vladovostok), and whether that has a treaty specific name such as the Kwangtung...
According to the Kodansha Encyclopedia of Japan entry for Chinese Eastern Railway, "The Japanese conquest of Manchuria... brought Japanese power to the very border of the Soviet Union... In case of war, the Japanese could seize the railway (CER) without difficulty, and the Japanese Guandong (Kwantung) Army stationed in Manchuria could easily use the Russian railway presence to manufacture a pretext of war... Under those circumstances, the Russians sought to sell the CER to Japan. Negotiations... were concluded in March 1935 with an agreement whereby Russia sold the CER to the Japanese puppet state of Manchukuo for 140 million yen. Soon afterward it was placed under the control of the South Manchuria Railway Company."
I agree with you... the Russians initially built the South Manchurian Railway. The map on Manchukuo is written in Japanese. However, it's old, pre-war Japanese, so most non-natives will have trouble trying to read it. I will also send you scans of the Kodansha Encyclopedia of Japan articles for the South Manchuria Railway and the Chinese Eastern Railway. (Scanned them now - and discovered that I only photocopied the 1st page of the South Manchuria Railway article!! So sorry!) The 1911 Britannica article I talked about appeared to be quite detailed, so you probably want to read it (if you haven't already). I hope this information will be some use to you - at least become a good starting point for research. Atsi Otani 15:12, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
Long time no see. Sorry for not meeting your requests regarding Tsushima. I had difficulty in real life, but now I'm back to Wikipedia. I will restart fixing Tsushima-related articles next week, as currently I cannot have access to the books I referred to because libraries are closed for Bon Festival. -- Nanshu 01:50, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
I've been on Uncyclopediaand while I was there I missed you eventhough you only gave me two messages.-- Yo Mama 5000 23:49, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
It's been seven weeks since you've created the article and it is not usable nor have you done anything with it. It's going on my watchlist and unless you've goten it up to snuff in a week I'm gonna submit it to a {{ afd}} discussion. Caerwine 02:44, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
You made it pretty obvious you really did not want this page deleted. I userfied it, and it is now at User:Fabartus/Timeline of the Russo-Japanese War, and the talk page is there also. When you get it to a useful state, move it back. I also removed the stub tag from it, as this puts it in a category with stubs -- it's not actually a stub yet, just an under construction notice. :) -- Phroziac ( talk) 02:29, September 8, 2005 (UTC)
Please take care of this article. There have been a fierce edit war since August. -- Ypacaraí 23:00, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
Hi. UserTalk:Fabartus/CommunityContrib02 looks like a misnamed archive. Can I ask you to move it from the main article namespace into whereever you feel is appropriate, and request deletion of the trailing redirect? THanks. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 04:50, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
Modified
Oceanography Clean Status to reflect revisions since June 2005 <G>
RJBurkhart
13:18, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, there was apparently a software change (when I was away sometime in November) and my sig broke at the time too. Try clicking the "use raw signatures" box and then try [[User:Fabartus|Fra]]<font color="green">[[User talk:Fabartus|nkB]]</font> (note also the font tags outside of the square brackets). Hope this helps, JYolkowski // talk 01:28, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
Testing, Fra nkB Have a Hearty THANKS!!! I just added some Bold to the Blue following your lead. FrankB 20:21, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
Hi,
You posted a {{ cleanup-date}} message on this article: Moravians (religion). If you feel that it has been satisfactorily cleaned, could you please remove the notice?
Thanks, Andrewjuren 07:12, 13 March 2006 (UTC) Sure! Completed: 13 March 06
Thanks so much for your review! I understood that the lead section really needs to be improved, along with a major reconstruction and, perhaps, moving, of the principles section. I'll work on that. Like you said, some changes may imply that the article becomes NPOV, I experienced that for many times. But I'll try to make balanced changes, mainly in references to the former regime or to the party's goals. I think these are you main concerns, and surely, the concerns of the majority of those who read or started reading the article. I'll try to include those "hook facts" to improve the interest of the readers in the article.
About the american stance on socialism and communism, I think that may be a reason against a possible promotion of the article, but recently Che Guevara or Hugo Chávez became FA, so, I think that is not an absolute fact, but your point is very good. Thank you very much Afonso Silva 21:23, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
Hi, Fabartus. That's fine. The article has been improved. I put the cleanup tag on because of sentences like this:
"Over the tower climbs persistent the rumor of an originally planned, however never implemented twin tower, which is identically constructed implemented and connected with the realized building by a bridge and such binoculars as symbol for the optical tool-making represented strongly in the city Jena represent should."
My only interest in the Jen-Tower article was wikification. I found it in Category:Articles that need to be wikified. I've wikified a very large number of articles and changed the tags on a significant percentage of them, so you don't need to notify me to change or remove a tag that I have placed. Thanks, though. Thanks also for your get well wish. I suspect it will take a while, but I expect to get better. -- Kjkolb 14:17, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm not clear as to exactly what you need; are you using Windows? If so, is "Ctrl-F" not what you need? (If the answer is, as I suspect, that of course it isn't, then I'm obviously completely at sea, and you'll need to explain it to me again — sorry.) -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 19:31, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
I've just noticed that the link to Poon's page is red; following it on the assumption that I'd typed it wrongly, I discover that it was deleted at his request, as he's giving up Wikipedia — so that's certainly someone who's left (unless he's just concentrating on being Tan...).
With regard to the mess below — sorry, I didn't mean to drag you in to this. As neither of the two proposers bothered to let me know about the RfC, I had to find out about it through third parties. So far, at least, the 100% consensus among those responding is that it shouldn't have been brought, and that Mademoiselle Sabina is in fact the one responsible for the unpleasantness — which was my view too. I've given up the idea that she might come to realise this, though. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 11:25, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
Hi.
1. I learned about the RFC because someone brought it to my attention as a possible means to solve the dispute on my Talk Page. 2. Following the link to the RFC page mentions that Wikietiquette is an option to solve minor disagreements between users. I used that option because I thought it would be better than a full out RFC. I decided to pursue the RFC route after Mel put up his attack page. As to how I got around the Wiki signature file, I didn't. I edited the alert after I discovered the attack page, and again to ask if I should close it when I opened the RFC. The Nowiki code is right on the Wikietiquette page; how is this a deep dark secret newbies can't know about? 3. Sock puppet? I don't think so. I'm not even going to dignify this. 4. The fact that the user is a "tenured professor at Oxford" has no bearing on this discussion, or on the fact that he has acted deplorably. I'm focusing on his conduct here, not his status on Wikipedia or anywhere else. And frankly, if you check his Talk Page, I am not the only user who has had a problem with him over his edits and "lectures". Mademoiselle Sabina 05:24, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
In closing, IMHO, you both owe the other an apology, and agree that getting in the last word is not and was not a good idea. End story. Let's us all get back to wikiwork, not this wasted typing. The biggest part of wikietiquette is knowing when to stop an arguement, and yell for help. Haven't seen you asking another admin to intercede or mediate (as yet) but I'll get back to the RFC now that this is good enough to mail.
The more level-headed comments are at the end of this entry.
When I posted the remark in the third person, I was not trying to do anything sneaky or underhanded. I was following the format used by other entries on the page. I also felt that putting it in the third person might be an easier way to distance myself from the situation and write a valid complaint. I did the same thing in the RFC.
Now, to the more level-headed remarks.
You're right. I wasn't particularly nice to Mel; he wasn't particuarly nice to me. I basically felt that I was returning what I received from him. Perhaps he's simply testy; perhaps he's had a lot of long days; perhaps on this thing called the Internet it's impossible to really discern someone's true emotions and meaning from their words alone. One never knows.
You and the other editor on my Talk Page are absolutely right, the situation got out of control on both sides. I'm willing to admit that. However, each of us has equal responsibilty here. It's not all about me. I'm sure that editing wars, flames, etc. can get nasty on Wikipedia and this is just a drop in the bucket.
I put in the RFC and Wikietiquette requests in the hopes it would resolve the conflict; if you have any other ideas for mediation or conflict resolution, I'd be open to hearing them. Thank you for all the time you have spent with this issue. Best, Mademoiselle Sabina 07:59, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
Thank you again for your comments and your help in resolving this. Your links and comments about the difficulties of language on Wikipedia. I suppose it's one of the perils of having a site that is edited by users from different anglophone countries; there are bound to be differences and strong opinions on all sides. I have a lot to learn here.
Unfortunately, I do not wish to take down the RFC or send Mel an apology for the simple reason that he is to blame for this, too, and he has not acknowledged it. You and I both agreed that neither of us looks particularly good in this conflict. However, on the RFC page, I notice that Mel, in his response, still paints me as the Bad Guy here and maintains that he is entirely innocent of any wrongdoing. When he admits he has some liability here, and perhaps takes down his attack page, I'll be happy to speak to the other editor involved in this case and discuss closing the RFC. I respect your opinion that he is a good person; I'll reserve my own opinion on this one. Frankly I just hope to avoid him on Wiki from now on. Mademoiselle Sabina 10:59, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
One more post and then I am done for the day, really. :) Hopefully.
I left a message on my own Talk Page (I have no idea how to get to the link myself, but it's right above your comment to C. and below the comments from FloNight with the shamrock icon) basically reiterating what was said above and outlining a plan to stop this in future. In a nutshell, I suggested that perhaps we (C. and myself) sit tight, see what will come of the mediation attempts, and if that fails, see about the Close Unresolved/archiving of the RfC. I also suggested that we both simply refuse to engage in debates with Mel in future in any way, that any comments to our personal Talk Pages can be ignored if necessary, and that we keep all issues about questionable edits to the respective articles' Talk Pages.
Does that sound like a good plan? Thanks again for your help. Namaste. Mademoiselle Sabina 21:24, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
You wanted some help, here I am! How can I help you? You can ask your questions right here, and I will respond.-- Commander Keane 08:17, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
Hello. I think, that your last comment on Mademoiselle Sabina's page was referred to me, wasn't it? Then why shouldn't I wait for Mademoiselle Sabina's answer for withdrawal of my RFC? I think I should, she is also an involved part... Cmapm 17:36, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
By the way, here's her reply: [5]. I think, it's reasonable and I support her view. Cmapm 18:49, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
So, what I have to do? I've completely lost in this pointless discussion. Should I and other just users switch to other topics, be ignorant and all will be OK? Or I must do something to stop these infinite series of comments by me and other users? Cmapm 21:11, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure how what you've done will go down (strictly speaking there's no process to close RfCs, much less prematurely); still, we'll see what happens. It was clearly meant well, and I appreciate the time and effort that you've put in.
As the so-called "attack page" is seen as such by no-one except the two editors bringing the RfC, I don't see its removal as being urgent. I think that it should remain until the issue is definitely closed, though. You see, I'm afraid that I'm not interested in compromise; a silly RfC has been opened on the basis of what can most generously be described as a deep misunderstanding of what I wrote. There aren't two sides in this, between whom compromise would be necessary — there's just one side, the RfC-bringers. I have nothing to apologise for; even under personal attack I became no more than slightly testy.
The page I deleted was a redirect from the incorrectly formatted UserTalk:Fabartus/Scratchpad01 to the correctly formatted User talk:Fabartus/Scratchpad01, which is still there. It had been moved to the correctly formatted location by User:Sam Hocevar, and I then deleted the redirect as a user error, because it was your error to place it in the wrong place (UserTalk instead of User talk). Oh and I agree regarding the whitespace in the Aylesbury article, but seeing as I don't own the article personally I hadn't looked at it for a month or two. Thank you for pointing this out. -- Francs 2000 17:37, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, I'd already left. I see that someone else did it though. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 09:21, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
I don't really know, I'm afraid, but at a guess I'd say that it means that your edit was the latest on that article. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 14:51, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Well, Frank,
You are just brimming with surprises. How to manage an aquarium to the healthful aspects of eating lima beans, to the China-Trans-Siberian Railway, among other information! I've never had a conversation OR a relationship with someone who is, in essence, an author of encyclopedia articles. Wow! I admire your fountainhead.
And I have to admit, going through nursing school has yet to cure me of certain less-than-enlightened attitudes and behaviors. I am not soup yet... :~)
Best, S Gosh, Sue. Pardon me blushes. You forgot to mention measuring cups... We have a relationship? Not only am I getting senile, me sense of touch seems to hae nae more memory than de brain does! Fra nkB 02:13, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
"Can you drop me a quick list of the 1632 series articles as you now know it, or confirm the 1632 series article is complete wrt all the spin-offs."
(Do Now) <G>
Brief: I had asked for the above and got back Category:1632-163x alternative-history series; NBD, all we need is an admin to move it. Fra nkB 01:53, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Posted Answer on his talk to take this to the talk: 1632 series talks. Fra nkB
Reply: Thanks for clearing that up. I had this vision of dealing with a giant that had a 10 league stride, spanning continents in a single bound! We have a lot in common. You're about 35 miles NNW of my home town (Belle Vernon), and I'm 3/4ths Polack and 1/4tr Lithuanian, so I be looking to see you masterpiece! If you can help me prod a few people into action, I understand the demands made on a student quite well. (11+ years taking at least a half load will do that for one!) Fra nkB 01:53, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Well, the term is used in all British English (and, so far as I can tell, Australian, New Zealand, etc., English) as well as by some U.S. science-fiction authors. Note that, even apart from the Misnomer article, the Wikipedia article on Alternate history gives both forms.
See also, for example, such U.S uses as [6], [7], [8], [9], [10], etc.
I might be a little bit like "Sci-Fi" (shudder) versus "S.F." The latter tends to be used by science-fiction enthusiasts, writers, etc., while the former is the journalists' version. The former might turn out to be a much more common usage, but I still think that we should use the latter. After all, so far as I can tell, the use of "infact" and even "atlast" as single words seem to be becoming almost standard among U.S. and increasingly U.K.) undergraduates (certainly among the ones that I teach (not to mention "disinterested" to mean "uninterested", and spelling slike "existance", "arguement", etc.), but that doesn't and shouldn't affect the way that we write. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 08:56, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Fra nkB 20:17, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Yes, tnx!-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 06:01, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
So, I infer that the use of this photo for both the racer and the thunderbolt is wrong (links at bottom). But which is wrong? Thanks, and yes, it's okay if I'm wrong. I'm really just 30+ yrs overdrawn on memory. Fra nkB
I gafiated for a couple months myself, and returned to find User:rktect was (quite rightly) banned. I hope metrology has been cleaned up now, but there's too much to do. Septentrionalis 05:24, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
But it's nice to be back. Fra nkB 05:56, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
I responded on my talk page. -- JLaTondre 13:00, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
From your message re: 21:55, 27 March 2006 DakotaKahn deleted "1632-163x series underlying history. My deletion log shows no deletion at that time on 27 March.-- Dakota ~ ° 08:23, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
please vote again here
I've retrieved the text and placed it at User:Fabartus/1632-163x series underlying history. Looking at it again, there are a few points where it went against Wikipedia policy: first, never place editorial comments in articles, including signatures; secondly, the {{ inuse}} template shouldn't be set to "indefinite", as this essentially takes ownership of the article. As we've discussed, there were also problems of content, including copyright and style, but you can now work on it uninterrupted until things like that are sorted out. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 09:23, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Tnx for the news! I am not that good with bar calculation, so if you can figure out the dates for those, let me know.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 19:59, 29 March 2006 (UTC)