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(moved by User:Ned Scott from User talk:Centauri [1] [2])
Dear Elonka, I always respected you for your fine-tuned sense of detecting incivility. May I ask you for an opinion on the matters raised at User_talk:Piotrus#Under-the-carpet_maneuvers? Was I offended, or am I overreacting?-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 22:33, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Elonka, as a courtesy note, I wanted to let you know that your name has come up at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Piotrus, in case you would like to participate in the discussion.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 01:52, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
Elonka, If I may delurk and jump in for a moment in Josiah's defense. I've been on the sidelines with the current and rather overly-contentious debate going on at Naming conventions (television). That Josiah has been as even-keeled and balanced in his responses there is a testament to his fair-mindedness and fortitude. While his reply to Matthew may seem to tiptoe into the zone of incivility, it was far from a personal attack, but an expression of disbelief. Matthew is an enthusiastic editor, but at times casually discourteous -- his flippant remark to Wknight of "what case?" was one such time (and itself might be interpreted as an uncivil comment). I sometimes wonder, however, if you read the actual policy you cite, or derive your own interpretation. WP:NPA states,
The essay page you point Josiah to, WP:TEA, states that it is intended to "declare publicly what you appreciate about other members of the community or their contributions"; specifically, "Saying nice things about other contributors, especially those with whom you are currently having problems." I don't see anything that you've written in appreciation of Josiah there. Directing him to "review policies, take a step back, take a deep breath, and perhaps have a cup of tea", after rapping him on the knuckles for a supposed personal attacks is, IMHO, a decidedly condescending and non-positive suggestion.
It seems to me that you have on various occasions claimed personal attacks and incivility in dealing with others on Wikipedia when none exists; such "fingerpointing" itself tends to raise the level of frustrations and stress. It may be an oversensitivity of refined sensibilities on your part. Perhaps, you might consider that some of the issues being raised on the WP pages/sections you frequent may actually be derived from the way you respond and interact with others who might disagree with you. Sometimes it's better to leave a matter alone-- even when you think you're in the right-- then to continue to nitpick to demonstrate your right-ness.
I note that you hope eventually to be a WP administrator. Chiding current admins in good standing about what you see as their failings is likely not the path to seeing your goals accomplished. Please take my comments as they were intended, in the spirit of helpfulness, as you are certainly an exceptionally knowledgeable and productive editor, who just sometimes seems to get caught up in Wikilawyering (a habit we all occasionally fall into).-- Leflyman Talk 03:32, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
I have supplied diffs of attacks many times, but to repeat: "stalling" [18] [19], "immature delay tactics" [20] [21], "bad faith" [22], and the "whining" [23] of "sore losers" [24] "borderline trolling" [25] being generally "disruptive" [26] [27]. Other editors' opinions referred to as "dumb ideas" [28] whose "messages are BS" [29]]. My reminders about civility on Ned's talkpage were deleted with uncivil edit summaries such as accusations of "trolling" [30] [31]. Further, having my edits repeatedly deleted off the page is pretty damn uncivil [32] [33]. Plus the steady stream of Harassment by Wknight94, who's been steadily nitpicking my edits and wiki-stalking [34], showing up at pages all over my watchlist, throwing warnings at my page if I so much as breathe wrong, and now starting a new campaign against several bios in my family tree. Plus of course there are the attacks at the Village pump, like saying that one of my posts was "distorting reality to gain sympathy" [35], or at the talk page of WP:POLL, where personally-directed comments include, "screaming for a new poll" [36], and "intellectually dishonest" [37]. None of which I have responded to in kind, and yet certain editors are continuing to jump up and down and complain that I'm the bad guy. Personally, I think I've been showing the patience of a saint. How do you think you would behave, if you were treated to such a steady barrage? Me, I'm handling it by distributing civility and NPA warnings on the spot. Don't want the warnings? Don't be uncivil or issue personal attacks, it's really simple. -- Elonka 05:07, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
Matthew has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Smile to others by adding {{ subst:smile}}, {{ subst:smile2}} or {{ subst:smile3}} to their talk page with a friendly message. Happy editing!
Hi, Elonka. I've been busy in real life for the last couple of days, and haven't fully caught up with recent developments. (I've seen that the mediation was rejected, and I've read WT:TV-NC and the AN/I threads, but I haven't looked into any of the other places this debate has spread into, like a metastasizing cancer.) I appreciate you reaching out to me, and I think that the sentiment of acting with integrity and mutual respect is a noble one. I'm don't think that I can support an absolute moratorium on page moves, since there really does seem to be a consensus in support of the guideline — the results of the already completed Lost RM would seem to support this. However, in the spirit of your request, I can support a recommendation that no more moves be performed outside of the WP:RM process.
The core of the TV-NC dispute, as I see it, is whether there is consensus in support of the guideline or not. If, as you and Matthew believe, there is not a consensus in support of WP:TV-NC, then any page moves should be examined on their own merits, in accordance with other Wikipedia guidelines and policies. Although I disagree with it, I can understand your argument of why moving pages without a formal RM can be disruptive in the current environment. I don't see how filing move requests and asking the views of all interested editors, including those who maintain the articles, is disruptive. The RM process is deliberate, careful and open to all Wikipedians. I think that using RM for the remaining moves is appropriate and would show due respect to those who disagree with the current guideline. Does that make sense to you? — Josiah Rowe ( talk • contribs) 18:45, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Hi! I saw this one on your "to do" list, my late Wife's sister is an alumnus, so I thought I would give you a stub upon which to build! :) Chris 07:39, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
Elonka, I don't want to be involved in that case, but I believe it would be worthwhile for the arbitrators to examine the merits of the out-of-process deletion, since my remark on Yaksha's user-page was just a good-natured advice. Of course, I did not expect to face such rudeness and hostility. If you add this episode to evidence, please let me know. -- Ghirla -трёп- 08:36, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Lots of good intentions flying around, but not much in the way of useful stuff. Here is a nice template I found to organize your ever-growing collections of awards :) -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 14:36, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Salad'o'meter™ | |||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|
put barnstars here (no thumb or direction) | |||||
n00b | involved | been around | veteran | seen it all | older than the Cabal itself |
Dear Elonka,
I noticed that you have a lot of experience with getting articles to FA status. I have been working on the Ohio Wesleyan University page article and am trying to get it to FA status. I was wondering if you could provide some advice on how the article can be improved? Also, any contributions to it will be even more appreciated! Thank you so much for your time! I greatly appreciate it! WikiprojectOWU 01:52, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
Feel free to place this award on your user page, as a token of appreciation for your contributions. If you're willing to help spread the good cheer to others, please see the project page for the Random Smiley Award at: User:Pedia-I/SmileyAward—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pedia-I (talk • contribs) 04:50, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
FYI, my wiki-time will be curtailed over the next week or so, as I head cross-country to spend time with family for the Christmas holidays. I'll be passing through Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona. If any of my wiki-friends are along that route, please let me know and maybe we can get together for a glass of eggnog and some wiki-stories!
Happy Holidays, El on ka 17:56, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Hello, I had a question about the current Naming Conventions case. I was in the process of supplying evidence a couple weeks ago, when my wiki-time was interrupted by the holidays (and the fact that I got stuck in the New Mexico snowstorm for a few days). Upon my return to Wikipedia, I see that the voting phase on the case has already started, before I was able to finish supplying evidence, and before some of the other involved editors had returned from their own holiday break. :/ May I continue with supplying the rest of my evidence? Or would it be too late at this point? I'd posted alerts about my upcoming absence and return on the ArbCom talk pages, such as at Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/Naming Conventions/Evidence#Christmas and Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/Naming Conventions/Proposed decision#Additional evidence, but I'm not sure if anyone saw them. Thanks for your time, El on ka 19:50, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi Elonka,
Welcome back from your break--we've missed you!
Are you doing anything on the Vanishing Point puzzle? (See, if you win, you could add to your list of places!)
See you on the other group.
Take care,
Larry
Lmcelhiney 20:54, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. I hate Spam even when sandwithced in an article. Pleclech 20:57, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
According to the weather report, St. Louis is targeted for one of the biggest icestorms in its history this weekend [39]. Power outages are likely. So, I will be either stuck at home and on Wikipedia all weekend, or I will be stuck at home and huddled under blankets during a power blackout. FYI... -- El on ka 22:16, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Ah! Everytime I read your userpage, it looks like you're caught up in even more drama. :( Btw, speaking of stalking: You're stalking me! Haha, not really. But I've noticed you do spend a fair amount of time reading "hacking-related" wikipages. :) Power to the hacker groupies!
-- Othtim 22:45, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Hello Elonka,
please send your real-name, your prefered login-name and the public part of your ssh-key to
. We plan to create your account soon then. --DaB.
P.S: Now we have en-data :). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by DaB. ( talk • contribs) 20:10, 13 January 2007 (UTC).
Things in my neck of the woods (St. Charles, Missouri) are pretty bad because of the ongoing ice storms. Details are available in my blog. Bottom line: I'm safe, but power and internet access are extremely sporadic, and likely to remain so for several days. My apologies to anyone who's waiting for info from me. :/ I'll be back as soon as I can. -- El on ka 23:15, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Please take a look at WP:MALL to which you have contributed, with respect to proposals to merge it with WP:LOCAL, to continue developing it, or to go ahead and implement it as a guideline. Thanks. Edison 21:07, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
It took about 2.5 hours last time, which sounds about right, given 6 edits/minute. It'll be slightly faster the more it skips. And yes, it's working forwards (from a text file, c'n'p'd and massaged from the special page), so if you want to edit at the same time and avoid hitting the bot's "leavings", probably makes sense to work from the end. Alai 08:19, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
thanks. My removal was a mistake. I don't know for sure where these should go. Perhaps Politics of Michigan instead of Government of Michigan since the cong districts are not involved in the actual governing of the state of Michigan. Hmains 02:11, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
The case is now closed and the results have been posted at the link above.
For the Arbitration Committee, Cowman109 Talk 04:19, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi Elonka, I don't want to make a formal request yet but was wondering if you could review http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesar_Millan
It seems that for some time those first working on the article are no longer involved and IP addresses pop in and make changes. There is no active discussion.
I have edited considerably trying to create a NPOV. A lot still has to be done, as well as general tidy up.
Thanks Tintina 01:26, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Why is there a request for references on the 2006 Norwegian Football Cup Final page?
Please could you reply to my user discussion page, Cheers!!
Dreamweaverjack 04:02, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
-- Lmbstl 12:19, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
You recently edited an article for Dekker Dreyer... the article is up for deletion based on notability, and I would like to ask you to chime in on the discussion of that deletion. Wikimegamaster 22:10, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | → | Archive 10 |
(moved by User:Ned Scott from User talk:Centauri [1] [2])
Dear Elonka, I always respected you for your fine-tuned sense of detecting incivility. May I ask you for an opinion on the matters raised at User_talk:Piotrus#Under-the-carpet_maneuvers? Was I offended, or am I overreacting?-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 22:33, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Elonka, as a courtesy note, I wanted to let you know that your name has come up at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Piotrus, in case you would like to participate in the discussion.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 01:52, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
Elonka, If I may delurk and jump in for a moment in Josiah's defense. I've been on the sidelines with the current and rather overly-contentious debate going on at Naming conventions (television). That Josiah has been as even-keeled and balanced in his responses there is a testament to his fair-mindedness and fortitude. While his reply to Matthew may seem to tiptoe into the zone of incivility, it was far from a personal attack, but an expression of disbelief. Matthew is an enthusiastic editor, but at times casually discourteous -- his flippant remark to Wknight of "what case?" was one such time (and itself might be interpreted as an uncivil comment). I sometimes wonder, however, if you read the actual policy you cite, or derive your own interpretation. WP:NPA states,
The essay page you point Josiah to, WP:TEA, states that it is intended to "declare publicly what you appreciate about other members of the community or their contributions"; specifically, "Saying nice things about other contributors, especially those with whom you are currently having problems." I don't see anything that you've written in appreciation of Josiah there. Directing him to "review policies, take a step back, take a deep breath, and perhaps have a cup of tea", after rapping him on the knuckles for a supposed personal attacks is, IMHO, a decidedly condescending and non-positive suggestion.
It seems to me that you have on various occasions claimed personal attacks and incivility in dealing with others on Wikipedia when none exists; such "fingerpointing" itself tends to raise the level of frustrations and stress. It may be an oversensitivity of refined sensibilities on your part. Perhaps, you might consider that some of the issues being raised on the WP pages/sections you frequent may actually be derived from the way you respond and interact with others who might disagree with you. Sometimes it's better to leave a matter alone-- even when you think you're in the right-- then to continue to nitpick to demonstrate your right-ness.
I note that you hope eventually to be a WP administrator. Chiding current admins in good standing about what you see as their failings is likely not the path to seeing your goals accomplished. Please take my comments as they were intended, in the spirit of helpfulness, as you are certainly an exceptionally knowledgeable and productive editor, who just sometimes seems to get caught up in Wikilawyering (a habit we all occasionally fall into).-- Leflyman Talk 03:32, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
I have supplied diffs of attacks many times, but to repeat: "stalling" [18] [19], "immature delay tactics" [20] [21], "bad faith" [22], and the "whining" [23] of "sore losers" [24] "borderline trolling" [25] being generally "disruptive" [26] [27]. Other editors' opinions referred to as "dumb ideas" [28] whose "messages are BS" [29]]. My reminders about civility on Ned's talkpage were deleted with uncivil edit summaries such as accusations of "trolling" [30] [31]. Further, having my edits repeatedly deleted off the page is pretty damn uncivil [32] [33]. Plus the steady stream of Harassment by Wknight94, who's been steadily nitpicking my edits and wiki-stalking [34], showing up at pages all over my watchlist, throwing warnings at my page if I so much as breathe wrong, and now starting a new campaign against several bios in my family tree. Plus of course there are the attacks at the Village pump, like saying that one of my posts was "distorting reality to gain sympathy" [35], or at the talk page of WP:POLL, where personally-directed comments include, "screaming for a new poll" [36], and "intellectually dishonest" [37]. None of which I have responded to in kind, and yet certain editors are continuing to jump up and down and complain that I'm the bad guy. Personally, I think I've been showing the patience of a saint. How do you think you would behave, if you were treated to such a steady barrage? Me, I'm handling it by distributing civility and NPA warnings on the spot. Don't want the warnings? Don't be uncivil or issue personal attacks, it's really simple. -- Elonka 05:07, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
Matthew has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Smile to others by adding {{ subst:smile}}, {{ subst:smile2}} or {{ subst:smile3}} to their talk page with a friendly message. Happy editing!
Hi, Elonka. I've been busy in real life for the last couple of days, and haven't fully caught up with recent developments. (I've seen that the mediation was rejected, and I've read WT:TV-NC and the AN/I threads, but I haven't looked into any of the other places this debate has spread into, like a metastasizing cancer.) I appreciate you reaching out to me, and I think that the sentiment of acting with integrity and mutual respect is a noble one. I'm don't think that I can support an absolute moratorium on page moves, since there really does seem to be a consensus in support of the guideline — the results of the already completed Lost RM would seem to support this. However, in the spirit of your request, I can support a recommendation that no more moves be performed outside of the WP:RM process.
The core of the TV-NC dispute, as I see it, is whether there is consensus in support of the guideline or not. If, as you and Matthew believe, there is not a consensus in support of WP:TV-NC, then any page moves should be examined on their own merits, in accordance with other Wikipedia guidelines and policies. Although I disagree with it, I can understand your argument of why moving pages without a formal RM can be disruptive in the current environment. I don't see how filing move requests and asking the views of all interested editors, including those who maintain the articles, is disruptive. The RM process is deliberate, careful and open to all Wikipedians. I think that using RM for the remaining moves is appropriate and would show due respect to those who disagree with the current guideline. Does that make sense to you? — Josiah Rowe ( talk • contribs) 18:45, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Hi! I saw this one on your "to do" list, my late Wife's sister is an alumnus, so I thought I would give you a stub upon which to build! :) Chris 07:39, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
Elonka, I don't want to be involved in that case, but I believe it would be worthwhile for the arbitrators to examine the merits of the out-of-process deletion, since my remark on Yaksha's user-page was just a good-natured advice. Of course, I did not expect to face such rudeness and hostility. If you add this episode to evidence, please let me know. -- Ghirla -трёп- 08:36, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Lots of good intentions flying around, but not much in the way of useful stuff. Here is a nice template I found to organize your ever-growing collections of awards :) -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 14:36, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Salad'o'meter™ | |||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|
put barnstars here (no thumb or direction) | |||||
n00b | involved | been around | veteran | seen it all | older than the Cabal itself |
Dear Elonka,
I noticed that you have a lot of experience with getting articles to FA status. I have been working on the Ohio Wesleyan University page article and am trying to get it to FA status. I was wondering if you could provide some advice on how the article can be improved? Also, any contributions to it will be even more appreciated! Thank you so much for your time! I greatly appreciate it! WikiprojectOWU 01:52, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
Feel free to place this award on your user page, as a token of appreciation for your contributions. If you're willing to help spread the good cheer to others, please see the project page for the Random Smiley Award at: User:Pedia-I/SmileyAward—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pedia-I (talk • contribs) 04:50, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
FYI, my wiki-time will be curtailed over the next week or so, as I head cross-country to spend time with family for the Christmas holidays. I'll be passing through Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona. If any of my wiki-friends are along that route, please let me know and maybe we can get together for a glass of eggnog and some wiki-stories!
Happy Holidays, El on ka 17:56, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Hello, I had a question about the current Naming Conventions case. I was in the process of supplying evidence a couple weeks ago, when my wiki-time was interrupted by the holidays (and the fact that I got stuck in the New Mexico snowstorm for a few days). Upon my return to Wikipedia, I see that the voting phase on the case has already started, before I was able to finish supplying evidence, and before some of the other involved editors had returned from their own holiday break. :/ May I continue with supplying the rest of my evidence? Or would it be too late at this point? I'd posted alerts about my upcoming absence and return on the ArbCom talk pages, such as at Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/Naming Conventions/Evidence#Christmas and Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/Naming Conventions/Proposed decision#Additional evidence, but I'm not sure if anyone saw them. Thanks for your time, El on ka 19:50, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi Elonka,
Welcome back from your break--we've missed you!
Are you doing anything on the Vanishing Point puzzle? (See, if you win, you could add to your list of places!)
See you on the other group.
Take care,
Larry
Lmcelhiney 20:54, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. I hate Spam even when sandwithced in an article. Pleclech 20:57, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
According to the weather report, St. Louis is targeted for one of the biggest icestorms in its history this weekend [39]. Power outages are likely. So, I will be either stuck at home and on Wikipedia all weekend, or I will be stuck at home and huddled under blankets during a power blackout. FYI... -- El on ka 22:16, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Ah! Everytime I read your userpage, it looks like you're caught up in even more drama. :( Btw, speaking of stalking: You're stalking me! Haha, not really. But I've noticed you do spend a fair amount of time reading "hacking-related" wikipages. :) Power to the hacker groupies!
-- Othtim 22:45, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Hello Elonka,
please send your real-name, your prefered login-name and the public part of your ssh-key to
. We plan to create your account soon then. --DaB.
P.S: Now we have en-data :). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by DaB. ( talk • contribs) 20:10, 13 January 2007 (UTC).
Things in my neck of the woods (St. Charles, Missouri) are pretty bad because of the ongoing ice storms. Details are available in my blog. Bottom line: I'm safe, but power and internet access are extremely sporadic, and likely to remain so for several days. My apologies to anyone who's waiting for info from me. :/ I'll be back as soon as I can. -- El on ka 23:15, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Please take a look at WP:MALL to which you have contributed, with respect to proposals to merge it with WP:LOCAL, to continue developing it, or to go ahead and implement it as a guideline. Thanks. Edison 21:07, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
It took about 2.5 hours last time, which sounds about right, given 6 edits/minute. It'll be slightly faster the more it skips. And yes, it's working forwards (from a text file, c'n'p'd and massaged from the special page), so if you want to edit at the same time and avoid hitting the bot's "leavings", probably makes sense to work from the end. Alai 08:19, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
thanks. My removal was a mistake. I don't know for sure where these should go. Perhaps Politics of Michigan instead of Government of Michigan since the cong districts are not involved in the actual governing of the state of Michigan. Hmains 02:11, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
The case is now closed and the results have been posted at the link above.
For the Arbitration Committee, Cowman109 Talk 04:19, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi Elonka, I don't want to make a formal request yet but was wondering if you could review http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesar_Millan
It seems that for some time those first working on the article are no longer involved and IP addresses pop in and make changes. There is no active discussion.
I have edited considerably trying to create a NPOV. A lot still has to be done, as well as general tidy up.
Thanks Tintina 01:26, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Why is there a request for references on the 2006 Norwegian Football Cup Final page?
Please could you reply to my user discussion page, Cheers!!
Dreamweaverjack 04:02, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
-- Lmbstl 12:19, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
You recently edited an article for Dekker Dreyer... the article is up for deletion based on notability, and I would like to ask you to chime in on the discussion of that deletion. Wikimegamaster 22:10, 7 June 2007 (UTC)