![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 15 | ← | Archive 20 | Archive 21 | Archive 22 | Archive 23 | Archive 24 | Archive 25 |
It's all cleared up! Thanks for your help I really appreciate it! If you ever need help with an unblocking I am so there for you! The Llama! ( talk) 22:02, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Lol, apparently I need to make it a point not to edit until I've gotten some caffeine in my system every morning. :P Thanks for keeping an eye out, and more importantly, thanks for being rational about the whole thing. :D Anyway, thanks again, and sorry for having to trouble you. :( Cheers =) -- slakr\ talk / 22:08, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for unblocking me :)
Yes, I am a New Page Patroller. I just started with Twinkle and NPP, and I soon plan to do recent changes on existing articles. What's funny is that this happened and I haven't been patrolling or using Twinkle for even 24 hours yet and this happens :P.
Yeah, I'm still learning which templates to use, and I didn't notice any issues with any of the ones I applied.
Again, thanks,
--
Mooshykris (
talk)
22:37, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Please see this attack page created today by User:Bharatveer, already nominated for speedy delete by me. Thanks, Mathsci ( talk) 14:13, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
![]() |
The da Vinci Barnstar | |
It's pseudo-long, but just read this wiki-user-talk-thingy-thread for why Elonka gets this Barnstar (geeks and hackers need pay special attention): [1]. Transparent disclosure: I have met Elonka in the real world. Follow the link anyway. This was VERY cool real "defense of wikipedia" work. If I didn't know you, me and two other users would likely be eternally wiki-screwed for no good reason. Quartermaster ( talk) 19:06, 26 July 2008 (UTC) |
Hi Elonka. I don't know if you remember the Klaksonn sockpuppetry case. Anyway, there have been some updates which can be found here. Regards. -- FayssalF - Wiki me up® 19:25, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
He just removed material from the article [2]. Please DO something! ScienceApologist ( talk) 20:48, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
You left me a message saying that you could coach? If you could that would be awesome! The Llama! ( talk) 22:07, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
Elonka, ChrisO at the talk page is threatening a major overhaul of the al-Durrah page. Can he just do a major rewrite like that? I, and others, have been working hard at improving the article a little at a time. The idea that he can rewrite the whole thing according to his view and without collaborating is ...well... frightening... ;) Tundrabuggy ( talk) 02:54, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
Elonka, this dif [3] is a wholesale revert of a sourced text. The reasoning behind the edit summary is faulty. In fact, the initial testimony is only the Charles Enderlin report and possibly the affidavit. Anything else that is clarified down the road is not 'initial' testimony. For clarity it is important not to leave the reader with the impression that the initial testimony is the final word on the matter, particularly if there is evidence that it has been revoked. Furthermore, in an edit further down the page someone uses an interview from 8 months later and includes it in this section. This section does not adhere to its own rules but only imposes them on some people. Tundrabuggy ( talk) 13:51, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Hi Elonka, I'm writing to you because you left a welcome message on my talk page and because you visited the Atiyah talk page to view the controversy there. As you, and another administrator User:CBM pointed out, we can only discuss the verifiability of the sources involved here. However, User:Fowler&fowler has repeatedly used ad-hominem attacks amounting to deliberate defamation. For example, on the Reliable Sources noticeboard, where I started a discussion on whether a petition by eminent academics counts as a source, F&f contributed the following: " ... scientist, C. K. Raju, of unremarkable achievement, who is looking, by hook or by crook, to get some publicity" and then again, "unremarkable scientist with grandiosity inversely proportional to achievement". If you look through the talk page, you will see that F&f has continued to make slanderous, and demonstrably factually incorrect, statements of this form not only against Prof. Raju but also against other living people. For example, on the talk page, F&f claims: "All Raju has (if he has them) is a bunch of historians who couldn't integrate sec3(x) to save their lives.".
What recourse do we have? Can we delete these comments since they are not pertinent to the discussion of the controversy? Since Wikipedia is so careful about what to include and what not to include in a BLP, why are statements of this sort allowed to stand?
User:Mathsci has alleged at the RS noticeboard that I am a "sockpuppet of currently blocked User:Bharatveer." This is, evidently, an attempt to distract attention from the topic by attacking me rather than my argument. (For the record, MathSci's argument is that I am a `sockpuppet' because I am aware of the restrictions imposed on Bharatveer which is suspicious since I'm a newbie. However, these restrictions are publicly visible on Bharatveer's talk page!) Similarly, on the BLP noticeboard, Mathsci has similarly tried to allege some association between me and Bharatveer. I dont know if you have access to IP addresses, but if you do, you can easily check that this is false! At another time, Mathsci threatened a user with a ban because of the use of the word 'Eurocentric'. MathSci promptly followed this up by branding me and other users, `Indian extremists'.
What recourse do we have. I am perfectly willing to accept a decision that this controversy cannot be included on the page, particularly if other neutral editors and users on the BLP and RS noticeboards feel so. However, I feel that F&f and MathSci are preventing an honest discussion by attacking me and using poorly sourced ad hominem arguments against Raju.
I feel that an intervention by an administrator in the two noticeboards will help. Furthermore, I feel that User:Fowler&fowler should be held to account for repeatedly making slanderous statements and restrained from doing so in the future. Thanks, Perusnarpk ( talk) 06:30, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
(noindent) On the contrary you are in conflict with most of the wikipedia community, unless you now have dropped the idea of inserting this libelous material into a mainspace article in gross violation of the BLP policies of this encyclopedia. I looked carefully at the diffs for the talk page of Atiyah and note that, far from distancing yourself, you seemed to be in agreement with the extremist remarks of both Abhimars and the anonymous IP 67.169.0.250 (who received a warning from Elonka for inserting the attack material in Michael Atiyah, after I removed it). Please refer to the wikiquette page for more details. Your familiarity with the various noticeboards and the internal workings of wikipedia (your current RfC against Fowler&fowler) for example) is still somewhat worrying. You are skating on very thin ice at the moment. Mathsci ( talk) 08:17, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
Not remotely acceptable, Elonka. I've fully explained my edits, I've said that I will review and verify the content in question before working it into another part of the article (as with the paragraph we discussed the other day), and your aggressive response is unwarranted. I am not going to move information around the article without first checking it out - that's how I found the problem with Tundrabuggy's addition of the presentation. I invite you to reconsider. -- ChrisO ( talk) 20:24, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Given that your actions were referred to in this edit, I'd appreciate a clarification or a comment from you if possible. Thanks. Blackworm ( talk) 23:15, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
As far as I'm concerned Wikipedia is just an excuse for some to
rewrite history. GIGO--
mrg3105 (
comms) ♠♥♦♣
13:01, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
I have had no response to my recent offer of a possible "olive branch" solution. Consequently I am afraid I am left with no choice but to formalise a request for comment on your recent actions and similar issues concerning other articles. You may see the RfC and respond to it at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Elonka. -- ChrisO ( talk) 21:29, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
I have to say that I don't think your response to the RfC does you much credit. However, I hope you will take the responsible course of considering the feedback you received and acting upon it in future. -- ChrisO ( talk) 07:58, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
I would like you to give a vary careful explanation with diffs of your reason for using this epithet on Cailil's RfA , repeated on Moreschi's talk page. Elonka you must realize that these are extremely serious allegations that you have made. Since your close wiki friend Shell Kinney seemed to be in complete agreement with you on ANI, perhaps she too would like to provide recent diffs to support this allegation. Perhaps what you both wrote was in fact just a careless error. If that is the case, can you please both be more careful in the future, as you are both likely to cause needless offence to many editors and administrators of long standing. Mathsci ( talk) 23:39, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Elonka, as I think you know I'm utterly uninvolved in any side of this dispute. It seems to me that a number of admins are concerned that the RFC has been deleted. Fundamentally, it's an RFC. It's presence does not harm anyone or anything. I'd therefore like to ask you, formally, to waive the certification requirements so the RFC can be un-deleted and proceed. That seems, to me, to be the way forward with the least amount of drama. Your thoughts? Nandesuka ( talk) 16:30, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
![]() |
Society Barnstar | |
For mediating and seeing through to the end issues regarding George Thomas Coker, I salute and thank you! — Rlevse • Talk • 00:28, 5 August 2008 (UTC) |
Hey. Just wondering if you'd have any objections to me closing the rfc and making a final decision on it when the time comes (whether it's a month down the line or whenever). I ask since I'm somewhat involved in the general matter and wasn't sure if there'd be problems. Wizardman 02:15, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your response there. :) Acalamari 23:21, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
If I may intrude for a second: I fear this conversation is beginning to pan out very similar to the heated discussions that have been held between Elonka + Jehochman, and yet is going nowhere. I strongly recommend that both Elonka and Jonathan disengage from one another: insofar as contact between the two of you continues to exist, disruption is going to continue. Elonka, I don't think issuing cautions to Jehochman is wise -- if his behaviour is improper, an uninvolved editor or administrator will pull him up. Conversely, Jonathan: I appreciate that you feel that Elonka is intimidating other editors, but I don't think that devoting your time on-Wiki to what seems to be a 'campaign' to "stop the injustices" is wise... If Elonka is behaving poorly, she will be held to task for it by the wider community. You are both excellent editors, and your contributions and actions are often amongst the best I've seen (Elonka, your work on the WG for ethnic warring has been outstanding; Jehochman, your contrib's and opinions at various noticeboards and threads [notably, RfAr] have always been very reflective and totally on-the-button), but this feud really is detracting from all that. I understand that both of you, Jonathan and Elonka, feel strongly that the other's conduct is flawed, and that action needs to be taken; however, it is essential that this is noted: you'll just fan the flames. Leave it to uninvolved to carry out checks and scrutiny on the other's conduct.
Best, Anthøny 22:41, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
![]() |
The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar | |
For your tireless and endless efforts to protect Wikipedia against an organised group trying to subvert Wikipedia from inside and for going above and beyond to prevent Wikipedia from being used for fraudulent purposes, you are awarded The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar Bharatveer ( talk) 05:52, 7 August 2008 (UTC) |
I'm asking for your expertise, or at the very least, input, since it's said you've experience plowing maybe somewhat similar ground. Justmeherenow ( ) 06:23, 7 August 2008 (UTC) To elaborate more, What we'd looking for, I think, is for you to share with us from your experience so that we might best be able to formulate our decision making proposal. Or something like that. Actually, any kind of feedback or input from somebody who's experience you've had would, I think, be invaluabe (...even if just to give us a heads up as to how difficult or fraught with peril such an undertaking would be or whatever!) Anyway, only respond there if you have the time to drop us a line. Thanks much! Justmeherenow ( ) 15:34, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
I'm starting to feel like a grammophone record the way I keep wanting to use the word "outrageous" about your actions, but your attacks on Jehochman on his page, about "multiple" cautions for harassment and untruthfulness is the worst I've seen yet. And to a guy who has kept defending you...! Elonka, do you seriously not know about evidence ? Examples ? Diffs? You simply don't get to say stuff like that without proof. It's not "uncivil bla bla"; it's vicious. Now either go find some diffs for those accusations or withdraw them. Those are your options. This is a warning. Bishonen | talk 21:13, 6 August 2008 (UTC).
Since this amounts to telling you to do something (as opposed to the more usual warning to stop doing something), it strikes me that I ought to give you a timeframe. Prove the accusations or withdraw them within 24 hours from now (or else give me a good excuse for why you need more time). Otherwise you will be blocked. Bishonen | talk 22:01, 6 August 2008 (UTC).
Elonka promised that if six good faith editors ask her to step down she will. Well, we are waiting. Let her stick to her word [22]. Itis time to step down. Slrubenstein | Talk 15:29, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
“ | To allow time for cooling off and to facilitate discussion and compromise, petitions remain open for seven days. Petitioners may strike out their signatures at any time. A petition may be closed early as successful at the admin's discretion, but not as unsuccessful. | ” |
Actually John V what you say is incorrect, what User:Jehochman links to above and quotes is My standards will be pretty straightforward. If six editors in good standing post to my talkpage and ask me to step down, I will immediately resign my adminship., which clearly makes no mention of misuse of "admin" tools. One could use either of these statements to support either point of view, neither appear to take precedence over the other. Besides it's degenerated into wikilawyering. The spirit of recall is what is important. Clearly many admins make promises during their request for adminship that they never intend to keep, they make these promises so they can persuade people to support them, as soon as they get the "status" they perceive "admins" have, they quickly forget the promises they made. When they are called upon to honour these promises they look for ways out. That is a strict legalistic attempt to apply the letter of the law rather than the spirit of the promise. I suggest you don't try to speak for Elonka but let her make her own decision, then we'll know if she meant what she said. Alun ( talk) 18:09, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
(Main response to "How do you feel about Category:Wikipedian administrators open to recall?") Just as I've said in my previous RfA attempts, I completely support it, and will definitely add my own name to the category. I've liked the idea even before I started thinking about becoming an admin - I think it's a classy way to handle things.
(Later clarification) I'm actually going to be a boring admin, doing the dull backlog kind of stuff. ;) And I'll still be in Category:Wikipedia administrators open to recall. All it will take is six good faith editors making a complaint about my use of admin tools at my talkpage, and will voluntarily resign. But I'm not worried about it, because I'm not planning to use admin tools in controversial ways. :)
Without taking a stance on this recall request, I like to hear more reasoned debate on what constitutes "use of admin tools."
In another, less active, talk page two editors are encouraging another to ask me to be recalled over conflict where I haven't pushed any special buttons. Strictly speaking I haven't done anything a normal editor could not have done. I have threatened to do so, however.
While me recall criterion is "six people, we talk, easy" and has nothing to do with admin actions, if it did I'd have thought a threat to be fair game. By extension, if an administrator made a large number of highly inappropiate warnings to drive editors off in a content dispute I'd expect ArbCom would deadmin him.
brenneman 00:29, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 15 | ← | Archive 20 | Archive 21 | Archive 22 | Archive 23 | Archive 24 | Archive 25 |
It's all cleared up! Thanks for your help I really appreciate it! If you ever need help with an unblocking I am so there for you! The Llama! ( talk) 22:02, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Lol, apparently I need to make it a point not to edit until I've gotten some caffeine in my system every morning. :P Thanks for keeping an eye out, and more importantly, thanks for being rational about the whole thing. :D Anyway, thanks again, and sorry for having to trouble you. :( Cheers =) -- slakr\ talk / 22:08, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for unblocking me :)
Yes, I am a New Page Patroller. I just started with Twinkle and NPP, and I soon plan to do recent changes on existing articles. What's funny is that this happened and I haven't been patrolling or using Twinkle for even 24 hours yet and this happens :P.
Yeah, I'm still learning which templates to use, and I didn't notice any issues with any of the ones I applied.
Again, thanks,
--
Mooshykris (
talk)
22:37, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Please see this attack page created today by User:Bharatveer, already nominated for speedy delete by me. Thanks, Mathsci ( talk) 14:13, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
![]() |
The da Vinci Barnstar | |
It's pseudo-long, but just read this wiki-user-talk-thingy-thread for why Elonka gets this Barnstar (geeks and hackers need pay special attention): [1]. Transparent disclosure: I have met Elonka in the real world. Follow the link anyway. This was VERY cool real "defense of wikipedia" work. If I didn't know you, me and two other users would likely be eternally wiki-screwed for no good reason. Quartermaster ( talk) 19:06, 26 July 2008 (UTC) |
Hi Elonka. I don't know if you remember the Klaksonn sockpuppetry case. Anyway, there have been some updates which can be found here. Regards. -- FayssalF - Wiki me up® 19:25, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
He just removed material from the article [2]. Please DO something! ScienceApologist ( talk) 20:48, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
You left me a message saying that you could coach? If you could that would be awesome! The Llama! ( talk) 22:07, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
Elonka, ChrisO at the talk page is threatening a major overhaul of the al-Durrah page. Can he just do a major rewrite like that? I, and others, have been working hard at improving the article a little at a time. The idea that he can rewrite the whole thing according to his view and without collaborating is ...well... frightening... ;) Tundrabuggy ( talk) 02:54, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
Elonka, this dif [3] is a wholesale revert of a sourced text. The reasoning behind the edit summary is faulty. In fact, the initial testimony is only the Charles Enderlin report and possibly the affidavit. Anything else that is clarified down the road is not 'initial' testimony. For clarity it is important not to leave the reader with the impression that the initial testimony is the final word on the matter, particularly if there is evidence that it has been revoked. Furthermore, in an edit further down the page someone uses an interview from 8 months later and includes it in this section. This section does not adhere to its own rules but only imposes them on some people. Tundrabuggy ( talk) 13:51, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Hi Elonka, I'm writing to you because you left a welcome message on my talk page and because you visited the Atiyah talk page to view the controversy there. As you, and another administrator User:CBM pointed out, we can only discuss the verifiability of the sources involved here. However, User:Fowler&fowler has repeatedly used ad-hominem attacks amounting to deliberate defamation. For example, on the Reliable Sources noticeboard, where I started a discussion on whether a petition by eminent academics counts as a source, F&f contributed the following: " ... scientist, C. K. Raju, of unremarkable achievement, who is looking, by hook or by crook, to get some publicity" and then again, "unremarkable scientist with grandiosity inversely proportional to achievement". If you look through the talk page, you will see that F&f has continued to make slanderous, and demonstrably factually incorrect, statements of this form not only against Prof. Raju but also against other living people. For example, on the talk page, F&f claims: "All Raju has (if he has them) is a bunch of historians who couldn't integrate sec3(x) to save their lives.".
What recourse do we have? Can we delete these comments since they are not pertinent to the discussion of the controversy? Since Wikipedia is so careful about what to include and what not to include in a BLP, why are statements of this sort allowed to stand?
User:Mathsci has alleged at the RS noticeboard that I am a "sockpuppet of currently blocked User:Bharatveer." This is, evidently, an attempt to distract attention from the topic by attacking me rather than my argument. (For the record, MathSci's argument is that I am a `sockpuppet' because I am aware of the restrictions imposed on Bharatveer which is suspicious since I'm a newbie. However, these restrictions are publicly visible on Bharatveer's talk page!) Similarly, on the BLP noticeboard, Mathsci has similarly tried to allege some association between me and Bharatveer. I dont know if you have access to IP addresses, but if you do, you can easily check that this is false! At another time, Mathsci threatened a user with a ban because of the use of the word 'Eurocentric'. MathSci promptly followed this up by branding me and other users, `Indian extremists'.
What recourse do we have. I am perfectly willing to accept a decision that this controversy cannot be included on the page, particularly if other neutral editors and users on the BLP and RS noticeboards feel so. However, I feel that F&f and MathSci are preventing an honest discussion by attacking me and using poorly sourced ad hominem arguments against Raju.
I feel that an intervention by an administrator in the two noticeboards will help. Furthermore, I feel that User:Fowler&fowler should be held to account for repeatedly making slanderous statements and restrained from doing so in the future. Thanks, Perusnarpk ( talk) 06:30, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
(noindent) On the contrary you are in conflict with most of the wikipedia community, unless you now have dropped the idea of inserting this libelous material into a mainspace article in gross violation of the BLP policies of this encyclopedia. I looked carefully at the diffs for the talk page of Atiyah and note that, far from distancing yourself, you seemed to be in agreement with the extremist remarks of both Abhimars and the anonymous IP 67.169.0.250 (who received a warning from Elonka for inserting the attack material in Michael Atiyah, after I removed it). Please refer to the wikiquette page for more details. Your familiarity with the various noticeboards and the internal workings of wikipedia (your current RfC against Fowler&fowler) for example) is still somewhat worrying. You are skating on very thin ice at the moment. Mathsci ( talk) 08:17, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
Not remotely acceptable, Elonka. I've fully explained my edits, I've said that I will review and verify the content in question before working it into another part of the article (as with the paragraph we discussed the other day), and your aggressive response is unwarranted. I am not going to move information around the article without first checking it out - that's how I found the problem with Tundrabuggy's addition of the presentation. I invite you to reconsider. -- ChrisO ( talk) 20:24, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Given that your actions were referred to in this edit, I'd appreciate a clarification or a comment from you if possible. Thanks. Blackworm ( talk) 23:15, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
As far as I'm concerned Wikipedia is just an excuse for some to
rewrite history. GIGO--
mrg3105 (
comms) ♠♥♦♣
13:01, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
I have had no response to my recent offer of a possible "olive branch" solution. Consequently I am afraid I am left with no choice but to formalise a request for comment on your recent actions and similar issues concerning other articles. You may see the RfC and respond to it at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Elonka. -- ChrisO ( talk) 21:29, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
I have to say that I don't think your response to the RfC does you much credit. However, I hope you will take the responsible course of considering the feedback you received and acting upon it in future. -- ChrisO ( talk) 07:58, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
I would like you to give a vary careful explanation with diffs of your reason for using this epithet on Cailil's RfA , repeated on Moreschi's talk page. Elonka you must realize that these are extremely serious allegations that you have made. Since your close wiki friend Shell Kinney seemed to be in complete agreement with you on ANI, perhaps she too would like to provide recent diffs to support this allegation. Perhaps what you both wrote was in fact just a careless error. If that is the case, can you please both be more careful in the future, as you are both likely to cause needless offence to many editors and administrators of long standing. Mathsci ( talk) 23:39, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Elonka, as I think you know I'm utterly uninvolved in any side of this dispute. It seems to me that a number of admins are concerned that the RFC has been deleted. Fundamentally, it's an RFC. It's presence does not harm anyone or anything. I'd therefore like to ask you, formally, to waive the certification requirements so the RFC can be un-deleted and proceed. That seems, to me, to be the way forward with the least amount of drama. Your thoughts? Nandesuka ( talk) 16:30, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
![]() |
Society Barnstar | |
For mediating and seeing through to the end issues regarding George Thomas Coker, I salute and thank you! — Rlevse • Talk • 00:28, 5 August 2008 (UTC) |
Hey. Just wondering if you'd have any objections to me closing the rfc and making a final decision on it when the time comes (whether it's a month down the line or whenever). I ask since I'm somewhat involved in the general matter and wasn't sure if there'd be problems. Wizardman 02:15, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your response there. :) Acalamari 23:21, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
If I may intrude for a second: I fear this conversation is beginning to pan out very similar to the heated discussions that have been held between Elonka + Jehochman, and yet is going nowhere. I strongly recommend that both Elonka and Jonathan disengage from one another: insofar as contact between the two of you continues to exist, disruption is going to continue. Elonka, I don't think issuing cautions to Jehochman is wise -- if his behaviour is improper, an uninvolved editor or administrator will pull him up. Conversely, Jonathan: I appreciate that you feel that Elonka is intimidating other editors, but I don't think that devoting your time on-Wiki to what seems to be a 'campaign' to "stop the injustices" is wise... If Elonka is behaving poorly, she will be held to task for it by the wider community. You are both excellent editors, and your contributions and actions are often amongst the best I've seen (Elonka, your work on the WG for ethnic warring has been outstanding; Jehochman, your contrib's and opinions at various noticeboards and threads [notably, RfAr] have always been very reflective and totally on-the-button), but this feud really is detracting from all that. I understand that both of you, Jonathan and Elonka, feel strongly that the other's conduct is flawed, and that action needs to be taken; however, it is essential that this is noted: you'll just fan the flames. Leave it to uninvolved to carry out checks and scrutiny on the other's conduct.
Best, Anthøny 22:41, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
![]() |
The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar | |
For your tireless and endless efforts to protect Wikipedia against an organised group trying to subvert Wikipedia from inside and for going above and beyond to prevent Wikipedia from being used for fraudulent purposes, you are awarded The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar Bharatveer ( talk) 05:52, 7 August 2008 (UTC) |
I'm asking for your expertise, or at the very least, input, since it's said you've experience plowing maybe somewhat similar ground. Justmeherenow ( ) 06:23, 7 August 2008 (UTC) To elaborate more, What we'd looking for, I think, is for you to share with us from your experience so that we might best be able to formulate our decision making proposal. Or something like that. Actually, any kind of feedback or input from somebody who's experience you've had would, I think, be invaluabe (...even if just to give us a heads up as to how difficult or fraught with peril such an undertaking would be or whatever!) Anyway, only respond there if you have the time to drop us a line. Thanks much! Justmeherenow ( ) 15:34, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
I'm starting to feel like a grammophone record the way I keep wanting to use the word "outrageous" about your actions, but your attacks on Jehochman on his page, about "multiple" cautions for harassment and untruthfulness is the worst I've seen yet. And to a guy who has kept defending you...! Elonka, do you seriously not know about evidence ? Examples ? Diffs? You simply don't get to say stuff like that without proof. It's not "uncivil bla bla"; it's vicious. Now either go find some diffs for those accusations or withdraw them. Those are your options. This is a warning. Bishonen | talk 21:13, 6 August 2008 (UTC).
Since this amounts to telling you to do something (as opposed to the more usual warning to stop doing something), it strikes me that I ought to give you a timeframe. Prove the accusations or withdraw them within 24 hours from now (or else give me a good excuse for why you need more time). Otherwise you will be blocked. Bishonen | talk 22:01, 6 August 2008 (UTC).
Elonka promised that if six good faith editors ask her to step down she will. Well, we are waiting. Let her stick to her word [22]. Itis time to step down. Slrubenstein | Talk 15:29, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
“ | To allow time for cooling off and to facilitate discussion and compromise, petitions remain open for seven days. Petitioners may strike out their signatures at any time. A petition may be closed early as successful at the admin's discretion, but not as unsuccessful. | ” |
Actually John V what you say is incorrect, what User:Jehochman links to above and quotes is My standards will be pretty straightforward. If six editors in good standing post to my talkpage and ask me to step down, I will immediately resign my adminship., which clearly makes no mention of misuse of "admin" tools. One could use either of these statements to support either point of view, neither appear to take precedence over the other. Besides it's degenerated into wikilawyering. The spirit of recall is what is important. Clearly many admins make promises during their request for adminship that they never intend to keep, they make these promises so they can persuade people to support them, as soon as they get the "status" they perceive "admins" have, they quickly forget the promises they made. When they are called upon to honour these promises they look for ways out. That is a strict legalistic attempt to apply the letter of the law rather than the spirit of the promise. I suggest you don't try to speak for Elonka but let her make her own decision, then we'll know if she meant what she said. Alun ( talk) 18:09, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
(Main response to "How do you feel about Category:Wikipedian administrators open to recall?") Just as I've said in my previous RfA attempts, I completely support it, and will definitely add my own name to the category. I've liked the idea even before I started thinking about becoming an admin - I think it's a classy way to handle things.
(Later clarification) I'm actually going to be a boring admin, doing the dull backlog kind of stuff. ;) And I'll still be in Category:Wikipedia administrators open to recall. All it will take is six good faith editors making a complaint about my use of admin tools at my talkpage, and will voluntarily resign. But I'm not worried about it, because I'm not planning to use admin tools in controversial ways. :)
Without taking a stance on this recall request, I like to hear more reasoned debate on what constitutes "use of admin tools."
In another, less active, talk page two editors are encouraging another to ask me to be recalled over conflict where I haven't pushed any special buttons. Strictly speaking I haven't done anything a normal editor could not have done. I have threatened to do so, however.
While me recall criterion is "six people, we talk, easy" and has nothing to do with admin actions, if it did I'd have thought a threat to be fair game. By extension, if an administrator made a large number of highly inappropiate warnings to drive editors off in a content dispute I'd expect ArbCom would deadmin him.
brenneman 00:29, 8 August 2008 (UTC)