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Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:
I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) will produce your name and the current date. You should always sign talk pages, but not articles. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! Str1977 (talk) 18:33, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
Hi, Dr. Dan. I came here to welcome you, as I saw your name showing up in red (a sign of a new user) on a page which was on my watchlist. However, when I pressed "save" there were two welcome messages; Str1977 had beaten me to it, so I rolled back my own one. Welcome, anyway. With regard to your comment on English grammar, you're quite right about "at the end of the 1960s". However, I don't think that particular phrase originally came from Str1977. (I admit I've only had the briefest glance at the article, but when you revert a particular edit, because of what you see as inaccuracy or bias, it's not at all unusual to reintroduce someone else's typo inadvertently.)
However, with regard to "neither" and "nor", I must disagree with you there. It's true that we don't use double negatives in English, in the sense of "I didn't see nobody". However, Hart's Rules says (pages 29 to 30):
In keeping with the last point (about the verb being in the singular), I changed it to "neither his son nor his son's mother WAS molested", where it has said "WERE molested". (I changed "the son" to "his son" because I found "the son" a little awkward.) However, I left the "nor", because it's certainly correct in British English, and I would say probably in American English as well, although I don't claim any expertise there.
(I lecture undergraduates about grammar, punctuation, and essay-writing skills, by the way, and I find Hart's Rules one of the most useful books I've ever bought.)
Hope you have fun at Wikipedia. Welcome, again. AnnH (talk) 00:50, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for your greetings. I am wishing you a Merry Christmas as well. And a Happy New Year too. Str1977 18:25, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
Happy Christmas from Ann, as well. Hope you're enjoying Wikipedia. By the way, your user name is still red. What about editing your user page just to tell other users a little bit about yourself or your interests? (Or if you want to keep your privacy, you can just put something like, "Hi, I'm Dr. Dan") That way, when you sign on talk pages, your user name will appear in blue rather than in red, so you'll look more like an "established" Wikipedian! Cheers, AnnH (talk) 00:11, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
Hello, Dr. Dan. As requested, I have uploaded your photo, and it is now on your user page. You can look at the coding and fiddle around with it to change the size, which is currently set at 300 px.
I made a pacifist user box at User:Dr. Dan/Pacifist. If you go to that page, and click on the "history" at the top, you can see different versions. If the one that's there at the moment isn't the one you like best, open an earlier one, click on "edit this page", and save that version. Then go back to your user page, and, if necessary refresh it to see the new box.
If you're confident, you could even try fiddling around to get some kind of combination.
I've also edited your user page to add you to the category of pacifist Wikipedians, as the original Template:User pacifist would have added you automatically. You'll see that at the bottom of the page you're listed as belonging to several categories — pro-life Wikipedians, native English-speaking Wikipedians, etc. By clicking on any of those categories, you can find other people who belong to the same group. It's a bit controversial at the moment, though, because some people have been contacting Wikipedians with whom they had had no prior contact, asking them to vote to keep or delete an article based on their views, and this has caused a lot of bad feeling. If you want to remove yourself from the pacifist category, just do so by editing the bottom of the page. You can't remove yourself from other categories without removing the user boxes, as they are built into the boxes.
Hope that helps. I'll be available again from the middle of January. AnnH (talk) 12:10, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
In one of your edits you make mention of Le Roy Lancelot or Wladislaus the White. Who was he, and when did he live? Thanks.
Dear Doctor, I will reply to you soon on Elser and believe it's not POV pushing, though some things as they stand now are inaccurate. As for your second question: Yes, it was possible to a member of one and not of the other. I don't know details about the Communis, but you must consider that the KPD was not a mass party as we know it today but a cadre party on the Leninist model. So weren't joining the KPD because you liked them but because you wanted to fight the political fight. It was much easier too be talked into joining the Rotfrontkämpferbund, as Elser was, as they needed more men. But regarding the NS organisation: there were numbers of different groups you could join independently and the Nazis developed a sort of Cursus honorum (in their view) that you will first join this and than that and finally the party (included in a famous Hitler speech on education of the youth). In 1933, after the Nazis had gained power, many people suddenly wanted to join the party and the NSDAP even closed itself to new memberships for a while. Those who made in were ridiculed as "Märzgefallene" (casualties of March, a pun on killed protestors of 1848), those you didn't make it joined other groups. In Carstens' case, the SA membership was obviously nominal or can you, if you know him, imagine Carstens the street-fighter. I can't. As I said, I will get back to you on Elser. Str1977 23:06, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
I remember Carstens, I'm sure he's dead by now. I can't imagine him as a street fighter either. But I can imagine him in a "tracht" club though. Dr. Dan 03:17, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for your support on Władysław Jagiełło. Can you think of any way of restoring fairness to the discussion. The discussion was posted on the Polish wikipedian notice board by Piotrus, and users invited to "comment", which hasn't helped balance the debate. Would you know any way of attracting more objective users to the page? Should I really just give up? I seems sad to abandon the page to a semi-fanaticism. - Calgacus 16:33, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
If you want more laughs, check out Adolf Lindenbaum, or just do a wiki search on Wilno. Shall you fix it, or shall I? - Calgacus 21:34, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Keep it up! :) - Calgacus 22:00, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
I advise not to follow this encouragment and stop personal attacks and comments towards Polish editors. Please act in civilized and polite manner. -- Molobo 23:19, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
I am afraid he already engages in personal comments focusing on nationality of other users, while ignoring the content of the articles he posts his remarks: For example : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Raphael_Kalinowski When I did, why did the "objective" SylwiaS And another example of personal remarks irrelevant to article: I'll bet most of these contributors grew up under the communist government of Poland. And another example of personal remarks irrelevant to article: Go re-read some of the "histories" out of the Soviet Union, about Poland and you will understand why I want to give objectivity it's fair shake, visa vis your neighbors. What purpouse does this comment serve ? And another case of personal attack: Just don't make your contributions make yourselves look ridiculous. And try to keep the inuendo to a minimum, it does'nt look good when you later whine that you're being attacked Such behaviour is destructive for Wikipedia and must be avoided. Should I state a comment that contributors coming from USA should re-read their books as it is generally known USA has poor education system ? Such comment would simply a xenophobic attack based on nationality of the user. And this is what is happening here. Such xenophobic attacks against Polish contributors from D.Dan aren't welcomed and I hope they will stop. -- Molobo 23:29, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Your comments addresing Polish users as a "Gang" are highly unwelcomed.Please beheave in civilized manner. -- Molobo 23:10, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Hopefully Dr.Dan will therefore stop from addresing Polish users in manner that could be taken as calling them criminals. I have to tell Dr. Dan that it was often done as part of anti-polish propagand during German occcupation and as such it would be advisable for the good spirit of cooperation to avoid such naming in discussions with Polish users.And of course with discussions with all users as well, as ironic or humourous statements aren't purpouse of the Wiki. I also hope this was Dr.Dan's simple lack of knowledge that led to this incident. -- Molobo 23:34, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Thank you Molobo for your advice. I'm flattered that you should be summoned or sic'd on "little ole me". You say I'm addressing Polish users in a manner that could be taken as calling them criminals. Are you joking, or writing a resumé to send to Dr. Goebbels for a job in the Propaganda Ministry. He's dead, and the Ministry is kaputt, so don't bother.
It was not "my simple lack of knowledge that led to this incident", but your obviously simple lack of knowledge of the English language that led you to your very erroneous conclusions. I have a very high regard for Poland and the Poles. The fact that I object to errors in articles that can be made more objective, is no reason to assume an anti-Polish bias on my part. Personally, I think that the educational system in Poland is in fact, superior to the educational system in the United States (and so do you, but you need the glands that produce testosterone to admit it), and am happy to tell you that the Jagiellonian University is one of my Alma Maters. Interestingly enough, you don't want to engage in the substance of the arguments presented. And for that matter, neither do the participants of the arguments want to either. Wonder why? I shall not use Gang anymore, even though Calgacus correctly ascertained that it was meant in an affectionate and playful context. Although I will continue to address the PROKONSUL by his title, I will not call the others your Highnesses or your Excellencies or homies( that's Ghetto slang, so you don't accuse me of a homophobic slur later). Lastly, if I may say so, the TALK page (discussion page), is where reasonable people should argue and debate the article. And good if it gets heated and emotional. If it's not vulgar or personal, I say go for it! So SylwiaS, why the rv of Vilnius in the Raphael Kalinowski article back to Wilno? Dr. Dan 02:08, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, it got me involved in that too. I have already seen the article you're talking about, as I too amuse myself by checking their contributions. There are now a whole series of disputed tags which follow them about. I suggest you add Wikipedia talk:Polish Wikipedians' notice board to your watch list, as that's where all the fun happens. At the top, there is a box with some articles labelled "Vandalized articles or needing attention", which in practice means that someone is objecting to the POV pushing of User:Molobo ( contributions). You can see for yourself that on the three articles currently listed, i.e. Anti-Polonism, Kulturkampf and Germanization, Molobo's ultra-nationalistic editing practices have resulted in dispute tags. User:Sciurinæ ( talk) has been trying to keep them neutral, but Molobo simply cares more. Wehrmacht and War crimes of the Wehrmacht may fall victim to him too, as he has also taken an interest in these articles. - Calgacus 10:07, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:German_Wikipedians%27_notice_board Ksenon 00:20, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
Okay, I didn't read enough of the article. Thanks for correcting that then. Rshu 19:47, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
Well, if you look at my contributions list, I am not exactly new, but, thanks for telling me that. As you probably already know, it was good-intentioned, however, it was wrong. Rshu 19:58, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
Yes, some Wikipedians just act like robots. I always put why I edited something, or at the very least saying "this is a minor edit". It seems that we both are historians, so if I ever need help with history, or vise versa, it would be nice to be "allies". As you could see on my edits page, I basically do only history articles, besides a few actors and video games that I am familar with. Rshu 20:20, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
You are friendly enough. Give me some time to reply to you. So far I changed the name back, so you do not feel offended. I hope you understand, that modern encyclopedias are neither chronicles, nor a historical sources. I will collect some more "historical" information and present it to you. The only thing, I am afraid you can not read the language which was official in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. Because it was the old version of Belarusian Max Kanowski 03:08, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
I've noticed you've been changing "Wilno" into "Vilnius" in a couple of articles recently. While I'm not opposing any of your specific changes, I'd like to ask that you do it carefully, as the present state of the names is often well thought through, and a result of a fragile consensus. I'm sure you're aware that naming in Central/Eastern Europe is often a sensitive issue. I'd like to encourage you to take a look at the latest proposal at Wikipedia:Naming conventions/Geographic names. Hopefully you'll be able to improve it, or at least it might inspire you with your future name changes. Sincere thanks in advance. -- Lysy talk 21:49, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
It seems to me like you're doing a good job here in wikipedia. Did you start any article so far? Halibu tt 02:12, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
I've reverted some of your recent edits of Polish-Lithuanian War as I felt they were based more on your personal views than the facts. I'm happy to discuss the edits one by one in the article's talk page if you feel strongly about them. However, since it's you who are changing the existing version, it's up to you to support any controversial edits with sources, or at least explain some of them. -- Lysy talk 02:18, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
Saw your question at Talk:Cieszyn. I think you might find this article that was originally published in Nie interesting in this respect. The author expects those who read modern Polish history books to wonder: "po jaka cholere ci idioci, marszalek Rydz-Smigly i minister Józef Beck, zdecydowali sie na wojne z Hitlerem?". Regards, -- Irpen 04:30, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
The article was interesting to say the least. And easy enough to read and understand without needing a dictionary or help from some translation program. Thank you. The Marshal and Colonel were amateurs next to their mentor, Pilsudski. If I'm not mistaken, I believe Beck was actually Hitler's guest at Berchtesgaden for New Years, 1939. The facts concerning their blunders need to be brought forth accurately and without bias. That it will be vociferously challenged, is to be expected. One should be prepared. It seems this group of editors enjoys entrapping people into reverting wars, and they then try to have them blocked, or removed from participation in the Wikipedia project. Hopefully, the powers that be, will begin to see what's going on here. Dr. Dan 06:22, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
-- Molobo 00:02, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
One of the pages where this is currently "brought forth" is Talk:History_of_Poland_(1939–1945)#.22Yalta_and_the_Soviet_Occupation.22_section. Bemused by post-44 years in history of Poland being called there "Years of occupation" I recetly added the picture of "occupation" to "illustrate" the text which I left intact for now. I am looking forward for the "group of editors" to do something about that. -- Irpen 06:40, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
See? Yhe "group of editors" got to the article. It got even more of the Russophobic propaganda than it used to be. Sigh. -- Irpen 00:31, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
Ekhem ? We are writing about Soviets.Isn't it claimed Russia isn't Soviet Union ? If you have concerns write them. -- Molobo 00:48, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
I saw that you might be interested in some topics related to Lithuania and wanted to say welcome also. I hope you will like it here, I know it gets heated sometimes, and you will stick around. If you neeed some help, please do not hesitate to drop me a line. I might not be readily available, but I will answer. Also, please don't be shy to participate in Wikipedia:Baltic States notice board. It's now sort of in "development stages" so your input is highly appreciated. Renata 03:56, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
Dan, don't get mad at me. You claim to be a historian and a pacifist. Put yourself into my shoes. I, a Belarusian, open a page about Grunwald. There I read: "I am nothing, my history is nothing, my kin is nothing, my family is nothing, my language is nothing, my home town's history (Slonim, if you are an expert in GDL - you know where it is) is nothing.... etc." - of course I explode. What did you expect? And then you ask why I am so nervous...
Have you seen those two lines dedicated to the Belarusian participation in the previous version of Grunwald? Smth like "In Belarus the battle is claimed to be a Polish-Lithuanian-Belarusian victory against the evil Germans" .. and that's it. It is like to speak about the American Revolution and never to mention the Americans.
But even then I never said anything personal either about you, or Lysy, or Renata, or Lithy, etc. Ok, I was wrong to say that it was better to extinguish Lithuanians. Sorry for that - overreacted.
So here is the summary of what I wanted to tell you (you may not reply if you do not want to):
Good luck in fights with other Belarusians who will get insulted by those pages in Wikipedia! Max Kanowski 04:23, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
I would suggest stopping removing Polish names from Lithuanian cities & towns. I know at least one person that got into huuuuge trouble over that and I would hate to see the same happening to you. It was discussed furiously before without reaching consensus. So if you want to reopen the discussions... I would better suggest jumping from a bridge :) Renata 14:58, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
I'm not planning to jump off a bridge soon. My question is simple. I'm surfing Wikipedia and come across Kernavė, an ancient medieval Capital of Lithuania. Halibutt feels it's necessary to inform the English speaking readers of Wikipedia, as to what the Polish name of the town is. So, I go to Gniezno, also an ancient medieval Capital of Poland. Wanting to inform the English speaking readers as to what the Lithuanian name of the town is, I add the Lithuanian name. Lo and behold, Molobo, reverts the addition as "irrelevant". Next, I take a look at Kaunas, this again has the Polish name added by Halibutt. I look at Lublin, a famous town, with significant historical associations to Lithuania. In fact, the city in which Lithuania, became an "equal" partner with Poland by virtue of the Union of Lublin and created the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. So I add the Lithuanian name, and Balcer has a problem with this, and it too is reverted. Maybe this scenario needs to be reviewed again, and explained as to what is going on. Oh yes, my question, why is what's good for the goose not good for the gander? Dr. Dan 14:34, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
Balcer, if some Lithuanians (some of the population, according to you, the 93% which is not Polish), think the historical significance of Lublin in the history of both countries warrants an inclusion of Lublin's Lithuanian name, do you "have an adverse reaction to such a practice"? I realize that you probably will not read this, " since I (you) do not regularly monitor your (my) talk page", but if you do, perhaps you will comment on this matter. And if just by some coincidence, you should have contact with Molobo, you might ask him if the ancient Lithuanian capital of Kernavė's Polish name has relevance in the English version of Wikipedia, while the Lithuanian name for Gniezno is "irrelevant". Salutations. Dr. Dan 01:34, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
And if just by some coincidence, you should have contact with Molobo, you might ask him if the ancient Lithuanian capital of Kernavė's Polish name has relevance in the English version of Wikipedia I suggest you stop your misleading accusations against me-I never edited the article Kernave, so your suggestion to Balcer is completely out of place. Like most of Polish editors I hardly care about Polish names for Lithuanian cities, an indiffrence that unfortunetely doesn't manifest itself often in edits of other Central European contributors. -- Molobo 09:34, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Molobo, if you are going to quote me, please include the entire sentence instead of the part that suits your purposes. This way others can have a better idea of how your thought processes work. Dr. Dan 00:07, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, I was just going through random articles to check for revision. Thanks for the heads-up. Who/what/where is Neudeck? (pardon my ignorance) GrapeSteinbeck 03:04, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Dr. Dan, it would be very helpful if you could make up your mind. Do you want to:
or
Pick one of these options and argue for it consistently. Then we can have a serious discussion, hopefully. Balcer 00:03, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
Sounds good, but I don't want you and I, to be the final arbiters or decision makers of this point at hand. Furthermore, to be clearer, I realize that there are cases where it is historically appropriate to list a foreign name to a geographical location. I am not against this. Vilnius is a good example where the Polish and other names shouldn't be removed. Kaunas and Panevezys are two examples where they should be. I am willing to go slow and discuss objections to specific cities and towns on a case by case basis. Fair enough? Dr. Dan 03:45, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi. I am not knowledgeable about the details of the 17th German Infantry Division. However, Wikipedia:Be bold in updating pages. You should check the talk page if this topic has been discussed before. If yes, join the discussion. If no, either ask if it is OK to change, or change it in the article. If someone objects then you still can discuss it on the talk page. Happy editing -- Chris 73 | Talk 07:56, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Apparently we're similar in that both of us tend to "correct" the right version by making it wrong ( [1]) :) . That's why very seldom do I correct my tests or home works. Where did you learn Polish, BTW? Halibu tt 23:43, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Hello again, Dan. As to correct assessment whether a battle was a victory or a defeat, it might indeed be problematic to say the least. Check my long discussion with Irpen at battle of Wołodarka, for instance. For me the only way to decide what was the result of a battle is in most cases the assessment of aims of both sides. If the goals of one side were achieved - in most cases it means that the side was victorious. That's why:
Halibu tt 21:08, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
Irpen, what confuses me most, is how in the Twentieth Century, a skirmish, comprising of circa 1100-1200 men becomes a battle, and holding the Germans back for twenty-four hours become a victory. But I'm learning fast. Dr. Dan 23:08, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
Halibutt, don't start this again. This is not about sources. This is about your taking liberty to interprete them as you see fit. -- Irpen 02:33, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
Sigh. -- Irpen 03:17, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
I have no emotional attachment to the German & Polish names for Tauragė; remove them if a consensus has been reached regarding similar articles. What convention has been followed elsewhere?-- Theodore Kloba 22:37, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
I too lack an emotional attachment to these names included in the lead of an article about a Lithuanian city. Looking for a more balanced and logical consistency, instead. Dr. Dan 23:12, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
No, the issue is not resolved, I removed all of the foreign names. They were then re-added again. Now, only one is removed. I should think it would be resolved, after the other one is removed too. Actually, I'll be expecting it. Dr. Dan 22:51, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
Very well, we are always going to find someone or somewhere to agree with our side in these debates. It's like the Bible, you can almost find anything to prove your side on any issue. I'm against this, as the basis ( if it's in the Columbia Encyclopedia, or XYZ Encyclopedia, the discussion stops), for resolving an issue, in principle. Besides, you nor I can edit the Columbia Encyclopedia and give the reader a different perspective of the story. The last thing that I want, is for Polish Wikipedians, to believe I have a anti-Polish bias, because I seek a more balanced approach on issues concerning Poland's neighbors. I have no doubt that we will be discussing these matters further. It's late, I'm exhausted, and my family has put me through the wringer today. More later. Dr. Dan 04:21, 5 March 2006 (UTC) p.s. the operative part of the sentence, is, then there is a good case for Wikipedia mentioning it also. A good case, but not necessarily the final judgement of how it should be handled.
That makes good sense. God forbid one should get involved in long discussions with other editors over the mundane, boring, or uninteresting matters. I've seen these take place too. I think your advice is good and worthwhile. I'm sure it's directed to all parties. Wszystkiego dobrego. Dr. Dan 13:47, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Frankly speaking I'd like to know myself. Most of my books on the war of 1919-1920 mention his role in it, but I have yet to see a mention of his later life. Perhaps you could ask Mikkalai, he might know more. Halibu tt 03:11, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
I truly liked your response, and had a very very long, sourced, and developed reply to you, regarding battles, Custer, the Polish-Lithuanian War and a few other "oeuvres" that I think you would have enjoyed. After editing the preview, making corrections and re-editing, I saved the page only to be told that an "editing conflict" has lost these Gems to posterity. As in the song, "McArthur's Park is melting and I may not have that recipe again". I'll try to re-do it, but the spark is gone tonight! Dr. Dan 03:39, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
Hello Halibutt, about a month ago we were discussing "Victories and Defeats," on my talk page (see above). I'm going over some notes and want to "recreate" a thought I had for you, and lost because of an editing conflict. I had really gotten into it, and had put together some ideas I wanted to share with you. Here are some fragments:
Getting back to the Polish-Lithuanian War, you paraphrased it as something that happened at the end of an unpaved road somewhere in Poland. There was also an implication by you, that the matter had significance only in Lithuania, perhaps forgetting that in a similar vein, the Polish victory at the Battle of Krojanty, might only have significance to Poles living in Poland. There can be no question that in despairing moments in a country's history, events like these take on a different quality in the "National Consciousness," of a Nation. My initial problem with the article was not who won or lost the war. I feel, Pilsudski, and those who wanted to reestablish the Commonwealth or "Between the Seas", actually suffered a defeat by their "victory". At least as far as Lithuania was concerned. My problem with the article, primarily dealt with the inclusion that this was part of the Polish-Bolshevik War. The article and talk pages further insinuate that the Lithuanian Government somehow was in an alliance with the Soviet Government, in order to thwart the aims of Poland, in the greater Polish-Boshevik War. I do not see this, in any stretch of the imagination, let alone in anything other than biased nationalistic propaganda. It's like saying the U.S.A. empathised with Stalin, and this is the reason that they fought a common foe, in Hitler. As I said before, the two events the PBW, and the PLW, have some overlap, but are not one and the same. I hope you can agree enough to help me, and give me the support necessary to make the change in the article. Dr. Dan 02:47, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
I just wanted to explain that I'm not stalking you. Just many articles that you're editing seem to be on my watchlist. :-) -- Lysy talk 19:33, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Wouldn't even dream of it. Our tired old names always coincide with one another sooner or later. Besides you are one of the few gentlemen that participates fairly, or at least when challenged, respond intelligently and rationally. Dr. Dan 19:39, 7 March 2006 (UTC) p.s. That being said, where in the hell did you get the statistic that 80% of Taurage was destroyed on June 22, 1941?
To be sincere I have no idea if there are any wiki rules regulating that. Of course there is the good ol' wikiquette and netiquette that suggest to post new comments below others and so on. However, I'm not sure if any of the cases you mentioned is mentioned anywhere. You might want to ask User:Piotrus, who is sort of our wiki rule Cicerone here. Halibu tt 00:01, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
Your edit of Battle of Grunwald really confused me. Was it supposed to be a WP:POINT example ? I've reverted it in good faith and hope I did not misunderstand you. -- Lysy talk 07:49, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
Sounds good. Thanks for letting me know. Appleseed ( Talk) 01:50, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
She lived in Wrocław until her early twenties, so that was good enough for me at the time. I confess I didn't really look closely into the matter. Do you object to that categorization because she was Jewish, or because she emigrated from Poland? Appleseed ( Talk) 02:19, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
My dear Appleseed, first, I have no objections calling Edith Stein, a Polish Saint, other than seeking historical accuracy. Otto Klemperer, is not considered a Polish conductor, even though like Stein, he was Jewish, and born in the same city, around the same time. Dr. Dan 02:34, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
Dan, don't get me wrong, but your attempt at using Polish-English mixture at my talk page was... well, I didn't get a thing of it. Very seldom do I have any problems with understanding English or Polish, but both at the same time seem a tad too much for my brain to cope with... So, "English please" seems like a decent solution... or Polish, or Czech, or Spanish, or any other language I speak. But please, no Polglish.
As to what you wrote in English, some time in the past I took part in one of the disputes about the German WWII divisions. The main point there was whether Molobo should be reverted on sight or not, which seemed like a bad idea to me. However, I'm not knowledgeable enough to take part in any serious content dispute related to German WWII units and their part in war crimes not related to the Warsaw Rising. Most of my knowledge on the matter comes from Polish sources (mostly biographies of Polish generals or monographs on Allied units), which is IMO not enough to say whether this particular primary source is credible or not. I believe so, but my beliefs would add little to the dispute. // Halibu tt 20:57, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
I wouldn't call it a movement, rather a trend or a notion among the youngsters. The words themselves are unaffected, but their usage is. What changes is the level of proximity required to stop using the pan or pani forms. My memory is tragic and, for the sake of simplicity, I call everyone I'm not sure I know with the proper honorary forms. However, there is a notion among the youngsters to consider being called that way a grave offence. This is especially true to my beloved forms of panna and panienka, which to some young ladies seem especially offensive (as if I called them prostitutes, or something along those lines). Same goes for some of the men aged 15-30 who, when approached and asked in a polite form, sometimes respond with an outraged I'm no pan or Don't pan me, will you as if it was offensive. This reminds me of the Russian Polish pan slogan, in which the word is closer to master and definitely offensive. As a sidenote, I've met a guy here in English wiki who called me a Polish pan once, clearly in the Soviet sense. Check my user page :)
Anyway, another trend that has recently been classified by the Polish Language Council is the usage of honorary forms in letters, be them formal or informal. The good ol' Szanowna Pani!, Szanowny Panie! or Szanowni Państwo is being more and more replaced with quite informal Witam, especially in internet letters. While the number of people who'd consider it an offence gets smaller with every year, it is still a tad rude to refer to an old professor with witam. Not to mention that people (as a whole) already forgot of most of the forms (Uszanowanie, Łączę wyrazy szacunku and so on) and these are barely (if ever) used nowadays. // Halibu tt 17:08, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
It isn't considered offensive Halibutt, it is just considered silly and akward. You use it only in formal discussion at university or in bussiness. Any usage besides that makes the talk formal more then needed. Perhaps it does reflect the passing out of noble's culture in Poland though as everybody wants to be equal and close to everybody in social strata. -- Molobo 17:15, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
So it's ty or wy? Dr. Dan 17:59, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
I have had several views of an old photograph that would clear it up, but some others use my screen name cathitreks or cathy treks or cathytreks , they are NOT me yet why does everybody have it out for me here for trying to show the truth as I believe it to be!?
I only sought the acceptance of my proofs ..........and have miserably failed. I am leaving your cleec (sp)...now sadly for me, yet maybe happily for many here after the latest attacks and smears for me, for what I genuinely believe in., and now some comments about my credentials that do not dignify a reply,
Fine...im leaving the Lincoln page you decide upon, and the narrow mindedness forever, here in what seems to be a ROSE COLOURED Lincoln Candyland only!...But folks, let us never leave the man in our hearts!
A PERSONAL HERO TO.... ME THAT I LOVE!
ABRAHAM LINCOLN!
I'm sadly leaving this place filled with much misunderstanding from many of the wiki "comunity" and withdraw from all of you, those who dont understand my sincere motives over a issue that seems hopeless to show or debate even amounst most of you, im sorry.,... I'm really very sorry, goodbye everybody..... I only sought truth.
I am heartsick over some of your attacks upon a sincere belief regardng the evidence I tried to present, my cousin in N.Z. did post under my name with my blessings as she believed too and tried to help show we were right, sorry you dont agree.
I really wonder what Lincoln would say over it all if he could?....
Somehow I believe he'd be sorry for we who sought the truth as some of the few here did, unlike the sheep who followed the wolves
shalom
....."a couple of misunderstood jewish girl's from both the old and new worlds bow from the stage here forever on this debate."
So...see ya round the galaxy! ( Cathytreks 00:12, 23 March 2006 (UTC))
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:
I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) will produce your name and the current date. You should always sign talk pages, but not articles. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! Str1977 (talk) 18:33, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
Hi, Dr. Dan. I came here to welcome you, as I saw your name showing up in red (a sign of a new user) on a page which was on my watchlist. However, when I pressed "save" there were two welcome messages; Str1977 had beaten me to it, so I rolled back my own one. Welcome, anyway. With regard to your comment on English grammar, you're quite right about "at the end of the 1960s". However, I don't think that particular phrase originally came from Str1977. (I admit I've only had the briefest glance at the article, but when you revert a particular edit, because of what you see as inaccuracy or bias, it's not at all unusual to reintroduce someone else's typo inadvertently.)
However, with regard to "neither" and "nor", I must disagree with you there. It's true that we don't use double negatives in English, in the sense of "I didn't see nobody". However, Hart's Rules says (pages 29 to 30):
In keeping with the last point (about the verb being in the singular), I changed it to "neither his son nor his son's mother WAS molested", where it has said "WERE molested". (I changed "the son" to "his son" because I found "the son" a little awkward.) However, I left the "nor", because it's certainly correct in British English, and I would say probably in American English as well, although I don't claim any expertise there.
(I lecture undergraduates about grammar, punctuation, and essay-writing skills, by the way, and I find Hart's Rules one of the most useful books I've ever bought.)
Hope you have fun at Wikipedia. Welcome, again. AnnH (talk) 00:50, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for your greetings. I am wishing you a Merry Christmas as well. And a Happy New Year too. Str1977 18:25, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
Happy Christmas from Ann, as well. Hope you're enjoying Wikipedia. By the way, your user name is still red. What about editing your user page just to tell other users a little bit about yourself or your interests? (Or if you want to keep your privacy, you can just put something like, "Hi, I'm Dr. Dan") That way, when you sign on talk pages, your user name will appear in blue rather than in red, so you'll look more like an "established" Wikipedian! Cheers, AnnH (talk) 00:11, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
Hello, Dr. Dan. As requested, I have uploaded your photo, and it is now on your user page. You can look at the coding and fiddle around with it to change the size, which is currently set at 300 px.
I made a pacifist user box at User:Dr. Dan/Pacifist. If you go to that page, and click on the "history" at the top, you can see different versions. If the one that's there at the moment isn't the one you like best, open an earlier one, click on "edit this page", and save that version. Then go back to your user page, and, if necessary refresh it to see the new box.
If you're confident, you could even try fiddling around to get some kind of combination.
I've also edited your user page to add you to the category of pacifist Wikipedians, as the original Template:User pacifist would have added you automatically. You'll see that at the bottom of the page you're listed as belonging to several categories — pro-life Wikipedians, native English-speaking Wikipedians, etc. By clicking on any of those categories, you can find other people who belong to the same group. It's a bit controversial at the moment, though, because some people have been contacting Wikipedians with whom they had had no prior contact, asking them to vote to keep or delete an article based on their views, and this has caused a lot of bad feeling. If you want to remove yourself from the pacifist category, just do so by editing the bottom of the page. You can't remove yourself from other categories without removing the user boxes, as they are built into the boxes.
Hope that helps. I'll be available again from the middle of January. AnnH (talk) 12:10, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
In one of your edits you make mention of Le Roy Lancelot or Wladislaus the White. Who was he, and when did he live? Thanks.
Dear Doctor, I will reply to you soon on Elser and believe it's not POV pushing, though some things as they stand now are inaccurate. As for your second question: Yes, it was possible to a member of one and not of the other. I don't know details about the Communis, but you must consider that the KPD was not a mass party as we know it today but a cadre party on the Leninist model. So weren't joining the KPD because you liked them but because you wanted to fight the political fight. It was much easier too be talked into joining the Rotfrontkämpferbund, as Elser was, as they needed more men. But regarding the NS organisation: there were numbers of different groups you could join independently and the Nazis developed a sort of Cursus honorum (in their view) that you will first join this and than that and finally the party (included in a famous Hitler speech on education of the youth). In 1933, after the Nazis had gained power, many people suddenly wanted to join the party and the NSDAP even closed itself to new memberships for a while. Those who made in were ridiculed as "Märzgefallene" (casualties of March, a pun on killed protestors of 1848), those you didn't make it joined other groups. In Carstens' case, the SA membership was obviously nominal or can you, if you know him, imagine Carstens the street-fighter. I can't. As I said, I will get back to you on Elser. Str1977 23:06, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
I remember Carstens, I'm sure he's dead by now. I can't imagine him as a street fighter either. But I can imagine him in a "tracht" club though. Dr. Dan 03:17, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for your support on Władysław Jagiełło. Can you think of any way of restoring fairness to the discussion. The discussion was posted on the Polish wikipedian notice board by Piotrus, and users invited to "comment", which hasn't helped balance the debate. Would you know any way of attracting more objective users to the page? Should I really just give up? I seems sad to abandon the page to a semi-fanaticism. - Calgacus 16:33, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
If you want more laughs, check out Adolf Lindenbaum, or just do a wiki search on Wilno. Shall you fix it, or shall I? - Calgacus 21:34, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Keep it up! :) - Calgacus 22:00, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
I advise not to follow this encouragment and stop personal attacks and comments towards Polish editors. Please act in civilized and polite manner. -- Molobo 23:19, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
I am afraid he already engages in personal comments focusing on nationality of other users, while ignoring the content of the articles he posts his remarks: For example : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Raphael_Kalinowski When I did, why did the "objective" SylwiaS And another example of personal remarks irrelevant to article: I'll bet most of these contributors grew up under the communist government of Poland. And another example of personal remarks irrelevant to article: Go re-read some of the "histories" out of the Soviet Union, about Poland and you will understand why I want to give objectivity it's fair shake, visa vis your neighbors. What purpouse does this comment serve ? And another case of personal attack: Just don't make your contributions make yourselves look ridiculous. And try to keep the inuendo to a minimum, it does'nt look good when you later whine that you're being attacked Such behaviour is destructive for Wikipedia and must be avoided. Should I state a comment that contributors coming from USA should re-read their books as it is generally known USA has poor education system ? Such comment would simply a xenophobic attack based on nationality of the user. And this is what is happening here. Such xenophobic attacks against Polish contributors from D.Dan aren't welcomed and I hope they will stop. -- Molobo 23:29, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Your comments addresing Polish users as a "Gang" are highly unwelcomed.Please beheave in civilized manner. -- Molobo 23:10, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Hopefully Dr.Dan will therefore stop from addresing Polish users in manner that could be taken as calling them criminals. I have to tell Dr. Dan that it was often done as part of anti-polish propagand during German occcupation and as such it would be advisable for the good spirit of cooperation to avoid such naming in discussions with Polish users.And of course with discussions with all users as well, as ironic or humourous statements aren't purpouse of the Wiki. I also hope this was Dr.Dan's simple lack of knowledge that led to this incident. -- Molobo 23:34, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Thank you Molobo for your advice. I'm flattered that you should be summoned or sic'd on "little ole me". You say I'm addressing Polish users in a manner that could be taken as calling them criminals. Are you joking, or writing a resumé to send to Dr. Goebbels for a job in the Propaganda Ministry. He's dead, and the Ministry is kaputt, so don't bother.
It was not "my simple lack of knowledge that led to this incident", but your obviously simple lack of knowledge of the English language that led you to your very erroneous conclusions. I have a very high regard for Poland and the Poles. The fact that I object to errors in articles that can be made more objective, is no reason to assume an anti-Polish bias on my part. Personally, I think that the educational system in Poland is in fact, superior to the educational system in the United States (and so do you, but you need the glands that produce testosterone to admit it), and am happy to tell you that the Jagiellonian University is one of my Alma Maters. Interestingly enough, you don't want to engage in the substance of the arguments presented. And for that matter, neither do the participants of the arguments want to either. Wonder why? I shall not use Gang anymore, even though Calgacus correctly ascertained that it was meant in an affectionate and playful context. Although I will continue to address the PROKONSUL by his title, I will not call the others your Highnesses or your Excellencies or homies( that's Ghetto slang, so you don't accuse me of a homophobic slur later). Lastly, if I may say so, the TALK page (discussion page), is where reasonable people should argue and debate the article. And good if it gets heated and emotional. If it's not vulgar or personal, I say go for it! So SylwiaS, why the rv of Vilnius in the Raphael Kalinowski article back to Wilno? Dr. Dan 02:08, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, it got me involved in that too. I have already seen the article you're talking about, as I too amuse myself by checking their contributions. There are now a whole series of disputed tags which follow them about. I suggest you add Wikipedia talk:Polish Wikipedians' notice board to your watch list, as that's where all the fun happens. At the top, there is a box with some articles labelled "Vandalized articles or needing attention", which in practice means that someone is objecting to the POV pushing of User:Molobo ( contributions). You can see for yourself that on the three articles currently listed, i.e. Anti-Polonism, Kulturkampf and Germanization, Molobo's ultra-nationalistic editing practices have resulted in dispute tags. User:Sciurinæ ( talk) has been trying to keep them neutral, but Molobo simply cares more. Wehrmacht and War crimes of the Wehrmacht may fall victim to him too, as he has also taken an interest in these articles. - Calgacus 10:07, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:German_Wikipedians%27_notice_board Ksenon 00:20, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
Okay, I didn't read enough of the article. Thanks for correcting that then. Rshu 19:47, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
Well, if you look at my contributions list, I am not exactly new, but, thanks for telling me that. As you probably already know, it was good-intentioned, however, it was wrong. Rshu 19:58, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
Yes, some Wikipedians just act like robots. I always put why I edited something, or at the very least saying "this is a minor edit". It seems that we both are historians, so if I ever need help with history, or vise versa, it would be nice to be "allies". As you could see on my edits page, I basically do only history articles, besides a few actors and video games that I am familar with. Rshu 20:20, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
You are friendly enough. Give me some time to reply to you. So far I changed the name back, so you do not feel offended. I hope you understand, that modern encyclopedias are neither chronicles, nor a historical sources. I will collect some more "historical" information and present it to you. The only thing, I am afraid you can not read the language which was official in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. Because it was the old version of Belarusian Max Kanowski 03:08, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
I've noticed you've been changing "Wilno" into "Vilnius" in a couple of articles recently. While I'm not opposing any of your specific changes, I'd like to ask that you do it carefully, as the present state of the names is often well thought through, and a result of a fragile consensus. I'm sure you're aware that naming in Central/Eastern Europe is often a sensitive issue. I'd like to encourage you to take a look at the latest proposal at Wikipedia:Naming conventions/Geographic names. Hopefully you'll be able to improve it, or at least it might inspire you with your future name changes. Sincere thanks in advance. -- Lysy talk 21:49, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
It seems to me like you're doing a good job here in wikipedia. Did you start any article so far? Halibu tt 02:12, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
I've reverted some of your recent edits of Polish-Lithuanian War as I felt they were based more on your personal views than the facts. I'm happy to discuss the edits one by one in the article's talk page if you feel strongly about them. However, since it's you who are changing the existing version, it's up to you to support any controversial edits with sources, or at least explain some of them. -- Lysy talk 02:18, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
Saw your question at Talk:Cieszyn. I think you might find this article that was originally published in Nie interesting in this respect. The author expects those who read modern Polish history books to wonder: "po jaka cholere ci idioci, marszalek Rydz-Smigly i minister Józef Beck, zdecydowali sie na wojne z Hitlerem?". Regards, -- Irpen 04:30, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
The article was interesting to say the least. And easy enough to read and understand without needing a dictionary or help from some translation program. Thank you. The Marshal and Colonel were amateurs next to their mentor, Pilsudski. If I'm not mistaken, I believe Beck was actually Hitler's guest at Berchtesgaden for New Years, 1939. The facts concerning their blunders need to be brought forth accurately and without bias. That it will be vociferously challenged, is to be expected. One should be prepared. It seems this group of editors enjoys entrapping people into reverting wars, and they then try to have them blocked, or removed from participation in the Wikipedia project. Hopefully, the powers that be, will begin to see what's going on here. Dr. Dan 06:22, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
-- Molobo 00:02, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
One of the pages where this is currently "brought forth" is Talk:History_of_Poland_(1939–1945)#.22Yalta_and_the_Soviet_Occupation.22_section. Bemused by post-44 years in history of Poland being called there "Years of occupation" I recetly added the picture of "occupation" to "illustrate" the text which I left intact for now. I am looking forward for the "group of editors" to do something about that. -- Irpen 06:40, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
See? Yhe "group of editors" got to the article. It got even more of the Russophobic propaganda than it used to be. Sigh. -- Irpen 00:31, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
Ekhem ? We are writing about Soviets.Isn't it claimed Russia isn't Soviet Union ? If you have concerns write them. -- Molobo 00:48, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
I saw that you might be interested in some topics related to Lithuania and wanted to say welcome also. I hope you will like it here, I know it gets heated sometimes, and you will stick around. If you neeed some help, please do not hesitate to drop me a line. I might not be readily available, but I will answer. Also, please don't be shy to participate in Wikipedia:Baltic States notice board. It's now sort of in "development stages" so your input is highly appreciated. Renata 03:56, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
Dan, don't get mad at me. You claim to be a historian and a pacifist. Put yourself into my shoes. I, a Belarusian, open a page about Grunwald. There I read: "I am nothing, my history is nothing, my kin is nothing, my family is nothing, my language is nothing, my home town's history (Slonim, if you are an expert in GDL - you know where it is) is nothing.... etc." - of course I explode. What did you expect? And then you ask why I am so nervous...
Have you seen those two lines dedicated to the Belarusian participation in the previous version of Grunwald? Smth like "In Belarus the battle is claimed to be a Polish-Lithuanian-Belarusian victory against the evil Germans" .. and that's it. It is like to speak about the American Revolution and never to mention the Americans.
But even then I never said anything personal either about you, or Lysy, or Renata, or Lithy, etc. Ok, I was wrong to say that it was better to extinguish Lithuanians. Sorry for that - overreacted.
So here is the summary of what I wanted to tell you (you may not reply if you do not want to):
Good luck in fights with other Belarusians who will get insulted by those pages in Wikipedia! Max Kanowski 04:23, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
I would suggest stopping removing Polish names from Lithuanian cities & towns. I know at least one person that got into huuuuge trouble over that and I would hate to see the same happening to you. It was discussed furiously before without reaching consensus. So if you want to reopen the discussions... I would better suggest jumping from a bridge :) Renata 14:58, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
I'm not planning to jump off a bridge soon. My question is simple. I'm surfing Wikipedia and come across Kernavė, an ancient medieval Capital of Lithuania. Halibutt feels it's necessary to inform the English speaking readers of Wikipedia, as to what the Polish name of the town is. So, I go to Gniezno, also an ancient medieval Capital of Poland. Wanting to inform the English speaking readers as to what the Lithuanian name of the town is, I add the Lithuanian name. Lo and behold, Molobo, reverts the addition as "irrelevant". Next, I take a look at Kaunas, this again has the Polish name added by Halibutt. I look at Lublin, a famous town, with significant historical associations to Lithuania. In fact, the city in which Lithuania, became an "equal" partner with Poland by virtue of the Union of Lublin and created the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. So I add the Lithuanian name, and Balcer has a problem with this, and it too is reverted. Maybe this scenario needs to be reviewed again, and explained as to what is going on. Oh yes, my question, why is what's good for the goose not good for the gander? Dr. Dan 14:34, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
Balcer, if some Lithuanians (some of the population, according to you, the 93% which is not Polish), think the historical significance of Lublin in the history of both countries warrants an inclusion of Lublin's Lithuanian name, do you "have an adverse reaction to such a practice"? I realize that you probably will not read this, " since I (you) do not regularly monitor your (my) talk page", but if you do, perhaps you will comment on this matter. And if just by some coincidence, you should have contact with Molobo, you might ask him if the ancient Lithuanian capital of Kernavė's Polish name has relevance in the English version of Wikipedia, while the Lithuanian name for Gniezno is "irrelevant". Salutations. Dr. Dan 01:34, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
And if just by some coincidence, you should have contact with Molobo, you might ask him if the ancient Lithuanian capital of Kernavė's Polish name has relevance in the English version of Wikipedia I suggest you stop your misleading accusations against me-I never edited the article Kernave, so your suggestion to Balcer is completely out of place. Like most of Polish editors I hardly care about Polish names for Lithuanian cities, an indiffrence that unfortunetely doesn't manifest itself often in edits of other Central European contributors. -- Molobo 09:34, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Molobo, if you are going to quote me, please include the entire sentence instead of the part that suits your purposes. This way others can have a better idea of how your thought processes work. Dr. Dan 00:07, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, I was just going through random articles to check for revision. Thanks for the heads-up. Who/what/where is Neudeck? (pardon my ignorance) GrapeSteinbeck 03:04, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Dr. Dan, it would be very helpful if you could make up your mind. Do you want to:
or
Pick one of these options and argue for it consistently. Then we can have a serious discussion, hopefully. Balcer 00:03, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
Sounds good, but I don't want you and I, to be the final arbiters or decision makers of this point at hand. Furthermore, to be clearer, I realize that there are cases where it is historically appropriate to list a foreign name to a geographical location. I am not against this. Vilnius is a good example where the Polish and other names shouldn't be removed. Kaunas and Panevezys are two examples where they should be. I am willing to go slow and discuss objections to specific cities and towns on a case by case basis. Fair enough? Dr. Dan 03:45, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi. I am not knowledgeable about the details of the 17th German Infantry Division. However, Wikipedia:Be bold in updating pages. You should check the talk page if this topic has been discussed before. If yes, join the discussion. If no, either ask if it is OK to change, or change it in the article. If someone objects then you still can discuss it on the talk page. Happy editing -- Chris 73 | Talk 07:56, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Apparently we're similar in that both of us tend to "correct" the right version by making it wrong ( [1]) :) . That's why very seldom do I correct my tests or home works. Where did you learn Polish, BTW? Halibu tt 23:43, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Hello again, Dan. As to correct assessment whether a battle was a victory or a defeat, it might indeed be problematic to say the least. Check my long discussion with Irpen at battle of Wołodarka, for instance. For me the only way to decide what was the result of a battle is in most cases the assessment of aims of both sides. If the goals of one side were achieved - in most cases it means that the side was victorious. That's why:
Halibu tt 21:08, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
Irpen, what confuses me most, is how in the Twentieth Century, a skirmish, comprising of circa 1100-1200 men becomes a battle, and holding the Germans back for twenty-four hours become a victory. But I'm learning fast. Dr. Dan 23:08, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
Halibutt, don't start this again. This is not about sources. This is about your taking liberty to interprete them as you see fit. -- Irpen 02:33, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
Sigh. -- Irpen 03:17, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
I have no emotional attachment to the German & Polish names for Tauragė; remove them if a consensus has been reached regarding similar articles. What convention has been followed elsewhere?-- Theodore Kloba 22:37, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
I too lack an emotional attachment to these names included in the lead of an article about a Lithuanian city. Looking for a more balanced and logical consistency, instead. Dr. Dan 23:12, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
No, the issue is not resolved, I removed all of the foreign names. They were then re-added again. Now, only one is removed. I should think it would be resolved, after the other one is removed too. Actually, I'll be expecting it. Dr. Dan 22:51, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
Very well, we are always going to find someone or somewhere to agree with our side in these debates. It's like the Bible, you can almost find anything to prove your side on any issue. I'm against this, as the basis ( if it's in the Columbia Encyclopedia, or XYZ Encyclopedia, the discussion stops), for resolving an issue, in principle. Besides, you nor I can edit the Columbia Encyclopedia and give the reader a different perspective of the story. The last thing that I want, is for Polish Wikipedians, to believe I have a anti-Polish bias, because I seek a more balanced approach on issues concerning Poland's neighbors. I have no doubt that we will be discussing these matters further. It's late, I'm exhausted, and my family has put me through the wringer today. More later. Dr. Dan 04:21, 5 March 2006 (UTC) p.s. the operative part of the sentence, is, then there is a good case for Wikipedia mentioning it also. A good case, but not necessarily the final judgement of how it should be handled.
That makes good sense. God forbid one should get involved in long discussions with other editors over the mundane, boring, or uninteresting matters. I've seen these take place too. I think your advice is good and worthwhile. I'm sure it's directed to all parties. Wszystkiego dobrego. Dr. Dan 13:47, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Frankly speaking I'd like to know myself. Most of my books on the war of 1919-1920 mention his role in it, but I have yet to see a mention of his later life. Perhaps you could ask Mikkalai, he might know more. Halibu tt 03:11, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
I truly liked your response, and had a very very long, sourced, and developed reply to you, regarding battles, Custer, the Polish-Lithuanian War and a few other "oeuvres" that I think you would have enjoyed. After editing the preview, making corrections and re-editing, I saved the page only to be told that an "editing conflict" has lost these Gems to posterity. As in the song, "McArthur's Park is melting and I may not have that recipe again". I'll try to re-do it, but the spark is gone tonight! Dr. Dan 03:39, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
Hello Halibutt, about a month ago we were discussing "Victories and Defeats," on my talk page (see above). I'm going over some notes and want to "recreate" a thought I had for you, and lost because of an editing conflict. I had really gotten into it, and had put together some ideas I wanted to share with you. Here are some fragments:
Getting back to the Polish-Lithuanian War, you paraphrased it as something that happened at the end of an unpaved road somewhere in Poland. There was also an implication by you, that the matter had significance only in Lithuania, perhaps forgetting that in a similar vein, the Polish victory at the Battle of Krojanty, might only have significance to Poles living in Poland. There can be no question that in despairing moments in a country's history, events like these take on a different quality in the "National Consciousness," of a Nation. My initial problem with the article was not who won or lost the war. I feel, Pilsudski, and those who wanted to reestablish the Commonwealth or "Between the Seas", actually suffered a defeat by their "victory". At least as far as Lithuania was concerned. My problem with the article, primarily dealt with the inclusion that this was part of the Polish-Bolshevik War. The article and talk pages further insinuate that the Lithuanian Government somehow was in an alliance with the Soviet Government, in order to thwart the aims of Poland, in the greater Polish-Boshevik War. I do not see this, in any stretch of the imagination, let alone in anything other than biased nationalistic propaganda. It's like saying the U.S.A. empathised with Stalin, and this is the reason that they fought a common foe, in Hitler. As I said before, the two events the PBW, and the PLW, have some overlap, but are not one and the same. I hope you can agree enough to help me, and give me the support necessary to make the change in the article. Dr. Dan 02:47, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
I just wanted to explain that I'm not stalking you. Just many articles that you're editing seem to be on my watchlist. :-) -- Lysy talk 19:33, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Wouldn't even dream of it. Our tired old names always coincide with one another sooner or later. Besides you are one of the few gentlemen that participates fairly, or at least when challenged, respond intelligently and rationally. Dr. Dan 19:39, 7 March 2006 (UTC) p.s. That being said, where in the hell did you get the statistic that 80% of Taurage was destroyed on June 22, 1941?
To be sincere I have no idea if there are any wiki rules regulating that. Of course there is the good ol' wikiquette and netiquette that suggest to post new comments below others and so on. However, I'm not sure if any of the cases you mentioned is mentioned anywhere. You might want to ask User:Piotrus, who is sort of our wiki rule Cicerone here. Halibu tt 00:01, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
Your edit of Battle of Grunwald really confused me. Was it supposed to be a WP:POINT example ? I've reverted it in good faith and hope I did not misunderstand you. -- Lysy talk 07:49, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
Sounds good. Thanks for letting me know. Appleseed ( Talk) 01:50, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
She lived in Wrocław until her early twenties, so that was good enough for me at the time. I confess I didn't really look closely into the matter. Do you object to that categorization because she was Jewish, or because she emigrated from Poland? Appleseed ( Talk) 02:19, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
My dear Appleseed, first, I have no objections calling Edith Stein, a Polish Saint, other than seeking historical accuracy. Otto Klemperer, is not considered a Polish conductor, even though like Stein, he was Jewish, and born in the same city, around the same time. Dr. Dan 02:34, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
Dan, don't get me wrong, but your attempt at using Polish-English mixture at my talk page was... well, I didn't get a thing of it. Very seldom do I have any problems with understanding English or Polish, but both at the same time seem a tad too much for my brain to cope with... So, "English please" seems like a decent solution... or Polish, or Czech, or Spanish, or any other language I speak. But please, no Polglish.
As to what you wrote in English, some time in the past I took part in one of the disputes about the German WWII divisions. The main point there was whether Molobo should be reverted on sight or not, which seemed like a bad idea to me. However, I'm not knowledgeable enough to take part in any serious content dispute related to German WWII units and their part in war crimes not related to the Warsaw Rising. Most of my knowledge on the matter comes from Polish sources (mostly biographies of Polish generals or monographs on Allied units), which is IMO not enough to say whether this particular primary source is credible or not. I believe so, but my beliefs would add little to the dispute. // Halibu tt 20:57, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
I wouldn't call it a movement, rather a trend or a notion among the youngsters. The words themselves are unaffected, but their usage is. What changes is the level of proximity required to stop using the pan or pani forms. My memory is tragic and, for the sake of simplicity, I call everyone I'm not sure I know with the proper honorary forms. However, there is a notion among the youngsters to consider being called that way a grave offence. This is especially true to my beloved forms of panna and panienka, which to some young ladies seem especially offensive (as if I called them prostitutes, or something along those lines). Same goes for some of the men aged 15-30 who, when approached and asked in a polite form, sometimes respond with an outraged I'm no pan or Don't pan me, will you as if it was offensive. This reminds me of the Russian Polish pan slogan, in which the word is closer to master and definitely offensive. As a sidenote, I've met a guy here in English wiki who called me a Polish pan once, clearly in the Soviet sense. Check my user page :)
Anyway, another trend that has recently been classified by the Polish Language Council is the usage of honorary forms in letters, be them formal or informal. The good ol' Szanowna Pani!, Szanowny Panie! or Szanowni Państwo is being more and more replaced with quite informal Witam, especially in internet letters. While the number of people who'd consider it an offence gets smaller with every year, it is still a tad rude to refer to an old professor with witam. Not to mention that people (as a whole) already forgot of most of the forms (Uszanowanie, Łączę wyrazy szacunku and so on) and these are barely (if ever) used nowadays. // Halibu tt 17:08, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
It isn't considered offensive Halibutt, it is just considered silly and akward. You use it only in formal discussion at university or in bussiness. Any usage besides that makes the talk formal more then needed. Perhaps it does reflect the passing out of noble's culture in Poland though as everybody wants to be equal and close to everybody in social strata. -- Molobo 17:15, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
So it's ty or wy? Dr. Dan 17:59, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
I have had several views of an old photograph that would clear it up, but some others use my screen name cathitreks or cathy treks or cathytreks , they are NOT me yet why does everybody have it out for me here for trying to show the truth as I believe it to be!?
I only sought the acceptance of my proofs ..........and have miserably failed. I am leaving your cleec (sp)...now sadly for me, yet maybe happily for many here after the latest attacks and smears for me, for what I genuinely believe in., and now some comments about my credentials that do not dignify a reply,
Fine...im leaving the Lincoln page you decide upon, and the narrow mindedness forever, here in what seems to be a ROSE COLOURED Lincoln Candyland only!...But folks, let us never leave the man in our hearts!
A PERSONAL HERO TO.... ME THAT I LOVE!
ABRAHAM LINCOLN!
I'm sadly leaving this place filled with much misunderstanding from many of the wiki "comunity" and withdraw from all of you, those who dont understand my sincere motives over a issue that seems hopeless to show or debate even amounst most of you, im sorry.,... I'm really very sorry, goodbye everybody..... I only sought truth.
I am heartsick over some of your attacks upon a sincere belief regardng the evidence I tried to present, my cousin in N.Z. did post under my name with my blessings as she believed too and tried to help show we were right, sorry you dont agree.
I really wonder what Lincoln would say over it all if he could?....
Somehow I believe he'd be sorry for we who sought the truth as some of the few here did, unlike the sheep who followed the wolves
shalom
....."a couple of misunderstood jewish girl's from both the old and new worlds bow from the stage here forever on this debate."
So...see ya round the galaxy! ( Cathytreks 00:12, 23 March 2006 (UTC))