Please add new sections at the bottom of the page in chronological order to make it easier to see what is new. Also, please sign your comments by typing ~~~~ at the end. That will automatically insert links back to your user page along with a date stamp. If you ask me a question here I will probably answer it here. Buddhipriya 18:45, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Welcome!
Hello, Buddhipriya, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:
I hope you enjoy editing here and being a
Wikipedian! Please
sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out
Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}}
on your talk page and ask your question there. Again, welcome!
I've seen that you edit Hinduism articles. You may consider joining WikiProject Hinduism. Thanks Gizza Chat © 07:07, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
DO v really need 2 write abt a 'goddess', who has 'no Puranic evidence' in the Ganesha article????
- Redtigerxyz
Thank you so much for opening a dialog about this! I see from your edits that you have an interest in Ganesha, and your help in improving his page is very welcome. Because the question pertains to an edit for that page, it may be better for me to reply in detail on the talk page for Ganesha so we can exchange views with other editors who may miss it if they are here. I will raise your very valid question there and try to answer, so please take a look and we can continue this dialog there. Thanks again for the direct communication! ॐ गं गणपतये नमः Buddhipriya 19:20, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Namaskar Buddhipriya! I fixed your edits on the Vairagya page so that is follow Wikipedia's conventions. To understand some important Wiki-policies please read WP:MOS and WP:CITE#HOW. Also may you read the main Hinduism page on Wikipedia (here - Hinduism). Many of us here want to make the main Hinduism article and other articles into Feature articles, which in short mean they are up to the highest standard of quality and quantity on Wikipedia. If you think the article has too much detail on particular topics, has very little information on more important areas, or something isn't explained well, please provide feedback on Talk:Hinduism. Thank you very much and keep up the good work! Gizza Chat © 10:37, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
You must have noticed that I moved the article you created to Ganesha Purana as per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English). The main reason for this guideline is that the if a user searches for Ganesha Purana (and surely he won't type IAST in google or wikipedia search :-) ) and the article title is in IAST, he will not find it ! I have also made an attempt to wikify the article and add the standard nuts and bolts to the content you had typed earlier. I hope you agree with the advisability of the edits.
I think the article as it stands is a reasonable stub. However content needs to be added to discuss (based on reliable sources) the contents of the purana and what commentators have said about it. Ideally we don't want to simply say that there are 3 books written about the purana (although even that is better than saying nothing), but rather what the books say about the purana itself. But it is a good start - good job! Abecedare 23:37, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for the excellent improvements you have made so quickly. I will be able to learn much about Wiki formats by studying your changes. I am unsure how much detail to provide on this and other topics until I get a better sense of how stable Wiki articles are. For example my remark that "no critical edition" had been issued was deleted, perhaps because the term "critical edition" was not recognized. A critical edition of these sources means that many alternative readings have been reviewed and reconciled by scholars to produce a consensus text. If there is no critical edition, it means that individual editions may show significant variations from one another. This is indeed the case with the Ganesha Purana, so the 1993 edition by Sharma and the Bailey version are not quite the same text. It is fascinating seeing what elements of the text "stick" in Wiki and which fall away quickly. ") Buddhipriya 23:45, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
What Hindu denomination do you follow? I think you are either a Shaiva or Ganapatya. Best wishes Gizza Chat © 09:24, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
"God can be realized through all paths. All religions are true. The important thing is to reach the roof. You can reach it by stone stairs or by wooden stairs or by bamboo steps or by a rope. You can also climb up by a bamboo pole." - p. 191, The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna, tr. Swami Nikhilananda.
"It is not good to feel that my religion alone is true and other religions are false. The correct attitude is this: My religion is right, but I do not know whether other religions are right or wrong, true or false. I say this because one cannot know the true nature of God unless one realizes Him." - pp. 558-559
"God has made different religions and creeds to suit different aspirants. By no means all are fit for the knowledge of Brahman. Therefore the worship of God with form is provided." - p. 486
ॐ गं गणपतये नमः
Buddhipriya 18:15, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
Hello again. It seems to me that you are not from North India or at least you do not know Hindi. The Hindi pronunciation (and many othe Indian languages) of Devanagari is different from Sanskrit. Firstly, the virama is not needed on Hindi words. This is why in most modern Hindu Indians, North or South, have names like Shiv, Ganesh, Ram, Govind instead of Shiva, Ganesha, Rama, Govinda etc. Secondly, अह् is really pronounced like एह् for non-Sanskrit derived Hindi words. That means Taj Mahal is pronounced as Taj Mehal. This is because of Persian/Muslim/Urdu influences on the language. Often, the "a"s (अ) in the middle of North Indian language words aren't pronounced too if the vowel isn't stressed, expecially in informal usage, like the word tyaar तयार (which means ready). If you see the Sehgal page on Wikipedia, you may notice alternative spellings though the pronunciation is still the same as mine. Of course Sanskrit derived words with अह् are pronouned properly like Maharaj (Great king/emperor) महाराज. Another common pronunciation difference between modern Indian languages and Sanskrit is the "ai" ऐ and "au" औ. Now they are pronounced as ē and ō in all modern Indian languages apart from a few Southern ones like Tamil and maybe some Eastern ones like Bengali. Gizza Chat © 05:47, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Wonderful education for me, thank you! You are correct that I do not know Hindi. Can you comment on regional variations in how the vowel ऋ is pronounced in Hindi? It is my impression that the "trilling" is more pronounced in Northern India but I am not sure if this is correct. By the way, once questions like this have been answered is it OK to delete them from talk pages? I am unclear on Wiki protocol for these exchanges. Is it best to answer on your talk page or keep both questions and replies on the same talk page? Buddhipriya 06:01, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
![]() |
The Exceptional Newcomer Award | |
Here is an award both for your significant contributions to wikipedia as a knowledge repository, particularly the articles Ganesh Purana and Mudgala Purana that you brought up almost single-handedly, as well as the manner in which you comport yourself and interact with other users. Keep it up ! Abecedare 06:11, 8 February 2007 (UTC) |
I noticed that you already correctly dealt with vandalism on the Ganesh Chaturthi page. For future reference, here are somethings you can do about obvious vandalism:
If you are not certain that the edit is vandalism,
assume good faith and leave at least an edit summary informing the editors (and others) the reason why you have reverted the changes. You can request editors to discuss disputed changes on the article's talk page. In such cases also be aware of the
three revert rule !
Finally, my personal advice is that while you should undo vandalism whenever you can, don't get emotionally involved even when you see persistent vandals attacking pages you have devoted time and attention to. As you continue to edit on wikipedia it is inevitable that you will run into persons whose mindset will appear alien to you - rather than let that upset you, it is more fruitful to take some time off, or move to other pages, or get help from admins and the wikipedia community. Above all remember the original reasons you started editing here, which are likely to be out of an desire to contribute to this incredible knowledgebase while having fun and gaining personal satisfaction..
Abecedare
07:26, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for your contributions! Nishkid 64 22:48, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
You have done tremendous work on Wikipedia so far and I hope you continue to do so! Gizza Chat © 08:09, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for removing the commercial spam links from Japa related pages. Appreciated. Regards, Gouranga(UK) 11:51, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Nice work ! By the way, IMDB spells the movie name as Jai Santoshi Maa (the simplified transliteration; see [1]), so it may be good to move the page to that spelling. (I can do that, if you agree to the move) By the way, I too have never created a Hindi movie page and so cannot offer many pointers. I have added a film infobox to the page, although I was too lazy to fill in all the fields :-) Abecedare 22:48, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
You are right, IMDb does use "Maa" -- so that is what I think we should go with. I have done the move and normalized the links to use "Maa". Thank you also for your guidance on how to build more consensus on some of the complex topics. The ability of anyone to change anything is a mysterious and chaotic process. Any suggestions on what to do with the issue of the history section for the Ganesha page? Buddhipriya 22:59, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
An easy way to link to wikipedia policies, guidelines etc is to use shortcuts, instead of typing the whole URL. For example here are five options for pointing to the reliable source guideline:
Typically, options (4) and (5) are preferred (depending upon the context), since they are easier to remember, type and read. Over time, you will have memorized the more common acronyms anyway. Cheers! Abecedare 23:50, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Hello, I am writing in regards to your removing the external link I have placed under Ganehsa. You indicated that it is not a suitable link but did not say why you believe so. Please see the link if you have not already. The site is from Sahaja Yoga (Canada) which is a universal religious organization that holds Shri Ganesha in the highest of regard. [3] The information from the link is from scripture. Please see Dnyaneshwari as reference. Dnyanshwari (aka Jnanadev) expounded on kundalini and the chakras in a most lucid and poetic way. I would like to add the link again and see that it can remain as an appropriate external link. Workie77 20:28, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for wisiting may talk page:
Please do not delete content from articles on Wikipedia, as you did to
Sarmatians. It may be considered
vandalism. If you would like to experiment, please use the
sandbox. Thank you.
Buddhipriya
01:50, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
i was very mistaken, plese forgive me that i talked to you
Nasz 05:01, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Hi Buddhipriya -
Thanks again for all your excellent experimentation, guidance and encouragement. If I may just provide a slightly modified test 2, this test shows the embedding of an IAST template within the DisplayTranslations template works correctly if the pipe-escape ({{!}}) is used instead of the standard pipe (|). (I've added some text to Template:DisplayTranslations' introductory text to attempt to further explain this.) Hope you find this encouraging :-)
With metta, Larry Rosenfeld ( talk) 05:15, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the vandalism template. I'll be sure to use it in future. GrimGary 06:51, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
You questioned the facts on the statement, so I just removed it as the appropriate article is already linked in that section. The Incidents at Disney parks article has all the documented details regarding major injuries and deaths that have occured at Disneyland and elsewhere. SpikeJones 23:56, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
You'll note I have reworded the list you created. My main goal was to change "Thus a Hindu could be defined as a person who:" into "Thus a Hindu could:" because the former sounded as if we were giving the formula for becoming a Hindu with 5 possible options; and I was afraid that such a list would become a magnet for every Hindu editor to add their personal reasons for considering themselves Hindu. Thus soon we would see "born in India", "believe in Ganesha" etc added to the list :-) I am hoping the rewording will instead simply indicate that Hindus come in diverse flavors.
I also combined some bullets of the list since the details of Hindu philosophy are better left to the
Hinduism article; while
Hindu deals better with the demographics and practices.
Finally, do you think it would be a better idea to mention a nastika (atheistic) school in addition to the dualist and non-dualist schools since that illustrates the broad possible range ? We can possibly remove the "subtle" variants, if needed. This is only a minor point and can be left for later/other editors.
Thanks for your help !
Abecedare
02:47, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
I think where you are going is to try to work in Samkhya or Carvaka pages. Perhaps good, but there are some terminology issues. Let me say that I do not know much about Cavaka, I would want to crack the books before answering on that. Regarding Samkhya, the page on Wiki is almost worthless as it fails to explain how the use of that term changed over time. In fact, Samkhya as a general term has little to do with whether or not one wishes to believe in a deistic system. In fact, different views within the general rubric of Samkhya take diametrically opposing points on deism, meaning the personification of the Divine as a personality or Lord (Ishvara). The confusion of Samkhya with "atheism" is common. It does not mean that. The term "na āstika" ("nāstika", simple English may write: "nastika") does not always mean atheist, either. It can simply mean "not pious" in addition to the way most people think of it ("not believing"). āstika means "believing" or "pious". Perhaps avoiding all of these technical terms would be a good idea and try to put the concept into plain English. For example, I think it is true to say that "Not all Hindus believe in a Divine Being." Is that what you are trying to get at? The wiki articles on Hinduism are generally of limited value, in my opinion. Has this raised more questions than it answered? Buddhipriya 02:54, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
Hi
Just want to check why http://www.shirdi-sai-baba.com link was removed from Sai Baba page? This website is 100% relevant.
Are you guys kidding or playing a game?
Can you pls answer? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 122.167.141.217 ( talk) 16:01, 25 February 2007 (UTC).
Thank you for asking aobut link policies on Wikipedia.
Welcome to Wikipedia. We invite everyone to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia. However, the
external links you added do not comply with our
guidelines for external links.
Wikipedia is not a mere directory of links; nor should it be used for
advertising or promotion. Since Wikipedia uses
nofollow tags, external links do not alter search engine rankings. If you feel the link should be added to the article, then please discuss it on the article's talk page before reinserting it. Please take a look at the
welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you.
Buddhipriya
16:55, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
I just glanced at the page and here are my top-of-the-head comments:
Hope these points are helpful. Abecedare 03:59, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Buddhipriya 04:37, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Buddhipriya, the instructions for first proposing a merge and then carrying it out are at WP:Merge. I think Astika + Nastika merge should be non-controversial, given the little attention the two pages receive. Let me know if I can be of any help. Thanks. Abecedare 23:44, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
![]() |
The Barnstar of High Culture | |
In regards to the development of Template:DisplayTranslations, I award you this barnstar for sharing your vast knowledge regarding Indic languages, for sharing it in a patient, thoughtful and tireless way, for sharing it for the betterment of a broad array of WP articles, and for sharing it across a cultural wall that too often is barbed with bitterness and hostility. Your tireless, kind heart gives me hope, Larry Rosenfeld ( talk) 19:44, 27 February 2007 (UTC) |
Namaskar Shri. Buddhipriya ji
First let me clarify that I am not aware of how to communicate with a user as I had never done it. So updating this page. I would appreciate if you can guide me here.
Now coming to the point, I am not sure why you have shot the third warning messages to me for updating page "Hindu deities". (This third update was nothing but a spelling correction!!) On other side of content, one who loves God/Deity and pray them can never be ignorant towards their denigrations. As you are an editor that does not mean you have rights to supress the thoughts of other devotees. I hope you will respect the feelings of others and understand that protecting good image of deity is a practical way of worship of deity. Mere writing long articles and keeping mum while one defames Lord Ganesha is NOT attribute of a real devotee.
With regards,
Anit
28-February-2007
Warning templates
|
Namaskar Buddhipriya ji
Firstly let me be very frank but still I do not see any reason to call my spelling change any kind of Vandalism.
Second, you had asked for particular issues of abuse of Lord Ganesha. Visit links below to view a few of them.
http://www.hindujagruti.org/hinduism/festivals/ganesh/gallery.php?level=album&id=13 http://www.hindujagruti.org/denigrations/ (Same link you objected)
Successful Protests against abuse http://www.hindujagruti.org/denigrations/successful/index.php?id=17 http://www.hindujagruti.org/denigrations/successful
There are links provided of the sources. Hindu deities are being abused on such mass level but we are so ignorant that we hardly raise our voice against them.
Also there was a scam of rupees 24 lacs in Sri Siddhivinayak Temple.
You can drop me a mail if you are interested in knowing more and willing to get alerts for such incidences.
Regards
Anit
I understand you removed it by mistake. I appreciate your humility. No need of apologies. Jbarot 15:54, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
![]() |
The Minor Barnstar | |
For your honest and open approach to things, I hereby present you with the minor barnstar. Your good faith is a refreshing breeze in the often troll-infested maze of "Aryan" topics. dab (𒁳) 19:13, 1 March 2007 (UTC) |
Dear Sir,
Thanks for noticing the additions so soon.
You can get the book from: Director prasaranga University of Mysore Manasagangothri Mysore-570006
you can also get the books from online sources like
https://www.dkagencies.com/doc/Home.html and serch for mummadi.
I also feel the title srittavanidi for your post on ganapati is not right.
If you need any more info ot if you feel i should post all the 32 paintings along with the original kannada texts, kindly let me know. raja
I replaced the link to * Art Passions Fairy Tale Art - Classic Fairy Tale Illustrations that you removed from the Fairy Tale page. First, it's clearly identified that it is Fairy Tale illustrations and therefore no one is going to go there looking for Fairy Tales. Second, I don't think the links to Fairy Tale text should be the sole criteria and neither do you, if it were you would probably not have included sites with copied text but that are mainly intended to generate income through affiliate programs. Those are the head reasons. The heart reason is that I have been spending my free time since 1998 creating this site, doing the scanning, buying antique fairy tale books, and I'm not doing it for my cats. I'm not leading anyone there to sell them anything, unlike sites you did leave in external links.
I see that your vision is a place to contribute "serious" material but I invite you to rethink that. As long as Wikipedia is an open door, and I hope it remains an open door, it will never be accepted as a valid source unless the person citing wikipedia follow the same path as the articles cited. Removing everything that isn't serious (i.e., the fairy tale link) moves Wikipedia ever more toward its transmogrification into an academic hydrant-pissing contest and don't we have enough of that soullessness?
In short, I put my heart into the fairy tales, I want to share them with the world (notwithstanding the many images from my website that now find homes in wikipedia commons), and even if you don't share these values, I ask that you respect my efforts and not remove this link from Fairy Tale.
Thank you.
Xineann
05:21, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Xineann ( talk • contribs) 05:20, 3 March 2007 (UTC).
I have started this new article and would like you help me expand it. I intend to the role of Ganapati in Buddhism , Jainism n also his presence in other countries like Sri lanka, Thailand , Japan etc. Thanks.-- Redtigerxyz 12:44, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
I am so glad that you have created the article and that you are asking to collaborate on it! It is a wonderful subject. Perhaps what I could do first would be to add a section for book references. There are several good books that include material on this, with very beautiful color plates. Since you have asked for participation I will go ahead and add a few that are available fairly widely with ISBN numbers. I was pleased to see that Wikipedia has a very good system for handling citations with ISBN numbers. So long as the ISBN number is included, a user can click on it to get to a variety of book search services to find the item in libraries and online booksellers. I will add at least one or two references today just to get some quality items up. Buddhipriya 18:40, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Hello Buddhipriya, I'd be happy to collaborate on the Narad Bhakti Sutra article. At the moment it's neither one thing or the other. What wdo you think about removing the masses of sanskrit and turing it into a more encyclopedic article containing quotations and disussions of the main points and different philosophical viewpoints on the text etc... is this what you were thinking of? I'm not so much into the wikisource idea as the straight text already exists elsewhere on the web.
In regards to the chronology of Krishna's days on earth I'm not sure if you've seen the discussion on the Krishna talk page? I agree with Abecedare's point, but just didn't want to loose the whole section. The nearest I could find to good reference is the one linked in here ( Dating Krishna). Hope it didn't sound like I was shouting. Best Wishes, ys, Gouranga(UK) 10:13, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Hello, I replied to your comments on my user talk page. Thanks for the kind words. If I may make a suggestion, I would advise looking for a word other than "nonsensical" to describe a current Wikipedia policy, because that could trigger an unproductive emotional reaction from the policy's proponents. Yes, the policy in question does seem rather nonsensical to me too, but merely saying so won't sound very convincing to people to whom the policy makes sense. Instead one has to find out what they do believe currently, and argue on the basis of that. It's hard to change a person's beliefs, but sometimes we can show them that what they are doing in one area is contradicting what they believe in some other area. In other words, to change another person's behavior, one has to show that person how the change we are recommending is more in keeping with that person's values than whatever that person is currently doing. And yes, this is often difficult, but it is much simpler than changing a person's values.
You may wish to add this to your list of links:
Almost everything a person could need to know about editing on Wikipedia is reachable from that page, and I think easier to find there than by many other means.
I noticed you are linking to some Wikipedia pages as external links rather than as wikilinks. For example, instead of:
you could say:
but of course you can use whatever link style you prefer. -- Teratornis 21:57, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
- "For some of us, the popular online encyclopedia has become more interesting as an experiment in emergent bureaucracy than in emergent content.... Wikipedia is beginning to look something like a post-revolutionary Bolshevik Soviet, with an inscrutable central power structure wielding control over a legion of workers."
Can you please explain why you have accused me of a POV statement here [4]? Please look at the Sokal article referenced, it is available online. Kak is clearly accused of practicing pseudo-science by the world's foremost expert on identifying and classifying PS. Please explain yourself. Hornplease 00:46, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
I am avoiding getting involved with the
Subhash Kak page (although I have it watchlisted and follow the changes there), since the page is a can of worms and IMO too positively slanted toward Kak than any article written by an expert in say Britannica or Encarta would be. Of course wikipedia cannot, by design, rely on unpublished "expert" opinion and its articles need to be based on published sources. That policy works brilliantly for mainstream topics (including controversial ones, such as
Intelligent design), since all aspects of such topics have usually been discussed in print. However for subjects that are only of specialized and marginal interest, this doesn't hold true. For instance, X can propose in a press conference that his "latest research has proved" that Ganesha was an historical figure and in fact, the first example of inter-species organ transplant (hope you recognize that I am picking a completely facetious example on purpose), and if X happens to be, say, an Indian doctor who has "made it in America", a lot of (especially Indian) press will give the "discovery" wide coverage. On the other hand no serious medical researcher or historian will even care to refute the notion in print, let alone write an academic article on the subject. So wikipedia's article on X, perforce, will have only one side (albeit the nonsensical side) of the story.
Coming back to Kak: His writings in fields of which I have (real-life) knowledge are, to put it bluntly, unadulterated nonsense [1], and I have not seen any evidence that he fares better in other areas where I have no personal claim of knowledge or education. Of course, the previous sentence is only my opinion (i.e., original research in wikipedia terminology) and as such deserves no place on Subhash Kak's page or any other article on wikipedia. But since there are so many other topics on wikipedia that I consider more interesting and worthwhile, I choose to devote my attention to them instead.
[1]: I know this description will sound uncharacteristically harsh, but honestly some of his published writings would earn even a high-school student failing grades. See
[6] and
[7] for discussion on the latest example. These sources are non-reliable for wikipedia purposes, but you are free to use them to form your personal opinion.
Abecedare
03:20, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
How is "evidence sufficient" to make "identification" that I am a "sock-puppet"? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Randomatom001 ( talk • contribs) 15:26, 21 March 2007 (UTC).
You call yourself a Hindu? I was deleting anti-Hindu view on the webpages but you just keep reverting my material. YOU ARE AN IMPOSTER! Stop calling me a sock-puppet as I am not.
(The above unsigned comment is documented here)
A block message is not a reliable indicator of the block status, since anybody (including non-admins) can place/remove it. The only way to definitely know if a user is blocked (or has been blocked in the past) is to look at his "block log". Similarly you can check when the user's account was created, or which images they have uploaded by checking the "User log". The "vandal" template provides easy links to both these special pages. Incidentally the same principle also applies to protection templates on article pages, admin claims on user pages etc. Abecedare 04:38, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Good suggestion. The last time I tried to set one of these up I did it wrong. Could you please create the page and post a link on the discussion page? Sorry for the extra work. This time I'll nake a note on how to do it on my user page. Thanks.-- Cberlet 13:41, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
I think our views match to such a large extent, that the isolated point on where we (possibly) differ has perhaps been amplified in our discussions. I'll list my opinion on use of IAST below, so that we can judge if we do have any substantial difference of opinion in practice (i.e. not at a "philosophical" level, which may be irrelevant to our editing at wikipedia). In my view:
So leaving aside, any issues regarding why-we-think-what-we-think, is there anything you would change in the above formulation ? Note: I am not really attempting to convince you of my view (or asking you to convert me to IASTranism :-) ) but rather trying to gauge where we differ on this issue.
PS: I realize that my note on the
Nastika talk page hurt your feelings. I used the wikipedia short-cut jargon in terming your analysis not incorrect but "OR"; I can see how that comment can come across as accusatory rather than an objective statement. I apologize for the same.
Abecedare
01:29, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
PPS: I added point 4 after reading at your comments. I very strongly agree with this as a matter of acdemic integrity, but had forgotten to list it earlier.
Abecedare
02:13, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
You are always very clear and helpful in how you go about exchanging views, which I appreciate very much. It is very helpful to see your points so clear. I realize that I may not have clearly thought through my own views, so let me try now. This may be disorderly, but I have less experience with the Wiki environment so must start with my own beliefs.
1. IAST is the academic standard for the romanization of Sanskrit.
2. There is the potential for significant information loss if IAST is not used, and the nature of the loss in meaning may not be obvious. I just had the opportunity to review a source text for the Narada Bhakti Sutra that someone placed online and it was almost completely worthless due to use of simple English.
3. If we are to ever have credibility we must get to a point where an Indologist would look at a Wiki page and see that it is not obviously wrong. That requires IAST. Other disciplines such as mathematics allow the use of special notation on pages, so why can't we? I use the word "wrong" because that is how Indologists often see simple English.
4. Based on all of those points, I believe that IAST should be encouraged as the standard of practice for all content. Those who cannot add IAST should not worry about it, but those who can should not be discouraged from doing it.
5. If an editor has added IAST, before reverting it the reversion should be specifically discussed with that editor in order to understand if there was some particular reason why the editor felt the IAST added value to the argument. In the nastika case, my entire point made no sense without IAST. The equivalent in a math article would be removal of some symbol in an equation because it was too confusing.
6. Virtually all of the books in my library that may make good citations for this project are in IAST or Devanagari. If I am to make a quotation of something, to change the IAST would require some process of converting the text to simple English, and I do not know how to do that. I do not think there is a generally-accepted way to do it, since IAST is the standard. So my conversion of the reliable source to simple English would amount to changing the source. Therefore any quotation that uses IAST should be preserved.
7. At a minimum I certainly endorse the mimimal steps you suggest, such using IAST at the time a term is defined, or when etymology is dealt with. You also mention short phrases such as mantras which also would be tedious to show both ways.
8. If there is no standard for how to do this in the Hindusim project, editors may vary in what they do. See this edit for a conversation I am having with User:GourangaUK, who likes IAST. I asked him about it specifically because we are collaborating on an article and I wanted to reach agreement with him before doing much work, which I envision using IAST. So in the absence of any good guideline, it may be good practice for individual editors to come to agreement on how to handle specific articles.
I look forward to discussing all of this with you, since you are so reasonable. Buddhipriya 02:07, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Taking your last point first, I think Krishna is a good example of a term where the practice of simply defining it in IAST at first use is fine, and then switching to the commonly-known English equivalent is fine. The goal is not simply "an ostentatious display of scholarship", however gratifying that may be. :)
Regarding "harder to read" for a general audience, I think that issue is overblown. The example with Krishna is a good example where I do agree with you that the loss of a recognizable English vowel is likely to confuse the reader (ṛ versus ri). Removal of visible vowel cues for the English reader is a problem with that vowel in particular because it is perceived by the English reader as a loss of information - where has the vowel gone? The confusion between śiva and shiva is of this type, a loss of the aspiration cue - where has the h gone? For a word the English reader is likely to have heard before and has a conceptual model of already, such as Krishna or Shiva, the loss of cues is upsetting. On the other hand, most of the IAST notation involves adding cues to letters, trying to deal with the 42% loss of symbols in the Latin-1 character set. So we get rāja (king) instead of raja (dust). The addition of the cues may not disturb the reader in the same way as removal of cues.
By the way, I have had a few nice exchanges with people related to the Buddhist pages, where they are trying to decide what to do about Chinese and Japanese characters. So I think this conversation we are having has applicability across Wikipedia.
I hope no one in NASA is relying on Wikipedia for math formulas, based on what you say.
When you mention that "fortunately/unfortunately, our audience is not Indologists - else someone would have brought Indian philosophy up to shape simply out of disgust with its current condition" you have raised an important point about attraction and retention of experts. If we want to improve the quality of the articles, it would helpful to get some people participating who actually know something about the topics, or at least possess a book on the subject and are willing to read it.
The problem of Wikipedia:Expert_retention is of particular importance to Indology, where access to sources is more limited than access to information about Anna Nicole Smith. There are probably thousands of people on Wikipedia who are monitoring news reports about her tragic death and can instantly detect and fix irregularities in details about her. But how many people on Wikipedia are prepared to tackle recensions of the Vedas? Is it true that there are but 12 recensions of the Samaveda, as is claimed (without reference) in the article? Does controversy rage over that question as it does over the father of Nicole's child? (In fact, I am the real father of the child, and I think I shall put that into the article now so the truth can be known.)
I am certainly no expert on anything, but I wish we could somehow attract real Indology experts to this project. We could learn so much from them if they were here. But they will never come unless we make them feel welcome and needed. We must somehow create a belief that it is possible to contribute serious material here. That is the vision I have.
Buddhipriya 03:48, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
This dialog has been very helpful to me in clarifying issues. I have gone over the thread and have tried to refactor it to get a draft of what may become the nucleus of a statement on IAST that we may be able to agree on. If we can get a clear summary that the two of us can agree on, perhaps we could share our points of agreement with others to see if there can be more general consensus reached. Building agreement slowly around even a few points would help the Hinduism Project on this issue. Please give me your reactions to this restatement of ideas:
1. Basic assumptions
2. IAST should be specified when:
3. Except as noted above, IAST should not be routinely used when:
I changed the IAST tags to Unicode in the Panini article for three reasons: to consistently use one template through the article, to make the font in the article appear consistently, and because it looks to me like the extended functionality of the tag wasn't being made use of. If I'm in error about this last please feel free to revert. -- Stlemur 03:12, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Dear friend, Just wanted to let you know that India is multi religion country and that statement in Hindutva page reflects that Only Hindus respect their country and all other religions have no respect for their country of birth. All religious scripts of India define to respect and protect their country of birth, Hence the statement in this page should also state about other religions. Please let me know if you still need more clarifications and would be glad to help you out. with love John Paul 05:10, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
The problem is, there is an official order for it, in WP:LAYOUT, though I see somebody has changed it without discussion. It is simply not right to use an idiosyncratic layout when there is a standard, regardless of whether you saw it in a featured article. In fact, changing it at all is in my opinion wrong, as it simply creates a hugh amount of unnecessary work, as most articles follow the standard. IPSOS ( talk) 00:07, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for tolerating an idiot such as myself, you are too kind. Regards, Gouranga(UK) 11:52, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
I just edited and revised the rubbish that was put our earlier on these pages and you reverted back to the rubbish. Please explain on what authority did you reverted my edits.
Hulagu
that correct? Buddhipriya 04:04, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
What content without citing sources are you talking about. Dont undo any changes without discussion. If a citation is required then tag it as such. But dont undo it. I am aware of Wikipedia rules as improvement is an ongiung process. -- Anishshah19 07:26, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Hello. You removed the criticism of The argumentative Indian. I request you to restore it based on the following from WP:RS: "When a well-known, professional researcher writing within his or her field of expertise, or a well-known professional journalist, has produced self-published material, these may be acceptable as sources, so long as his or her work has been previously published by credible, third-party publications. Editors should exercise caution for two reasons: first, if the information on the professional researcher's blog (or self-published equivalent) is really worth reporting, a reliable source will probably have covered it; secondly, the information has been self-published, which means it has not been subject to independent fact-checking."
I don't know if I can contribute to the article in content, but I certainly enjoyed reading it! By the way, you may want to request User:Rudrasharman to weigh in - I recall he had referenced Nirukta (particularly Naighantuka) during the discussions on the Talk:Ashvamedha page. Cheers. Abecedare 07:55, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the heads-up. I've added the article to my watchlist and also made a request for help here. It's becoming a bit of an irritation.
On a more positive note - would you know any article where this photograph I uploaded last year might find a good home? Best Wishes, ys Gouranga(UK) 11:54, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
No problems at all with the cut & paste - I have no other image of the crowd, but do have a much clearer (& complete) photo of Ganesh taken from a nearer distance if you think that will help? Ys, Gouranga(UK) 13:27, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
Alright, I can prepare a presentation for you. Please start by reading this, in case you haven't already. The title of the subsection in question is POV. It would be better to say "Buddha as a non-dualist." There are no sources cited; for this reason I find it somewhat odd that you reverted my edit which gave a general reference. Madhyamika was the first fully developed non-dual philosophy, and its brand of non-dualism is (in my and David Loy's view) more sophisticated than any later philosophies such as Advaita. I hope you can see how a Buddhist would interpret the implication that Advaita is the true development of the Buddha's thought as objectionable. Arrow740 08:52, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
I got a message from you about me vandalizing some article on Vedas. All I did was remove some "timing" information from the article which I didn't consider to be accurate. It said something like although the Vedas have been around since 2000 BC ... I consider the Vedas as apaurusheya, hence my deletion.
Manas
Haven't seen you in a while and your contributions could be helpful on quite a few articles currently. cheers — Spaceman Spiff 05:36, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
Please add new sections at the bottom of the page in chronological order to make it easier to see what is new. Also, please sign your comments by typing ~~~~ at the end. That will automatically insert links back to your user page along with a date stamp. If you ask me a question here I will probably answer it here. Buddhipriya 18:45, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Welcome!
Hello, Buddhipriya, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:
I hope you enjoy editing here and being a
Wikipedian! Please
sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out
Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}}
on your talk page and ask your question there. Again, welcome!
I've seen that you edit Hinduism articles. You may consider joining WikiProject Hinduism. Thanks Gizza Chat © 07:07, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
DO v really need 2 write abt a 'goddess', who has 'no Puranic evidence' in the Ganesha article????
- Redtigerxyz
Thank you so much for opening a dialog about this! I see from your edits that you have an interest in Ganesha, and your help in improving his page is very welcome. Because the question pertains to an edit for that page, it may be better for me to reply in detail on the talk page for Ganesha so we can exchange views with other editors who may miss it if they are here. I will raise your very valid question there and try to answer, so please take a look and we can continue this dialog there. Thanks again for the direct communication! ॐ गं गणपतये नमः Buddhipriya 19:20, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Namaskar Buddhipriya! I fixed your edits on the Vairagya page so that is follow Wikipedia's conventions. To understand some important Wiki-policies please read WP:MOS and WP:CITE#HOW. Also may you read the main Hinduism page on Wikipedia (here - Hinduism). Many of us here want to make the main Hinduism article and other articles into Feature articles, which in short mean they are up to the highest standard of quality and quantity on Wikipedia. If you think the article has too much detail on particular topics, has very little information on more important areas, or something isn't explained well, please provide feedback on Talk:Hinduism. Thank you very much and keep up the good work! Gizza Chat © 10:37, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
You must have noticed that I moved the article you created to Ganesha Purana as per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English). The main reason for this guideline is that the if a user searches for Ganesha Purana (and surely he won't type IAST in google or wikipedia search :-) ) and the article title is in IAST, he will not find it ! I have also made an attempt to wikify the article and add the standard nuts and bolts to the content you had typed earlier. I hope you agree with the advisability of the edits.
I think the article as it stands is a reasonable stub. However content needs to be added to discuss (based on reliable sources) the contents of the purana and what commentators have said about it. Ideally we don't want to simply say that there are 3 books written about the purana (although even that is better than saying nothing), but rather what the books say about the purana itself. But it is a good start - good job! Abecedare 23:37, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for the excellent improvements you have made so quickly. I will be able to learn much about Wiki formats by studying your changes. I am unsure how much detail to provide on this and other topics until I get a better sense of how stable Wiki articles are. For example my remark that "no critical edition" had been issued was deleted, perhaps because the term "critical edition" was not recognized. A critical edition of these sources means that many alternative readings have been reviewed and reconciled by scholars to produce a consensus text. If there is no critical edition, it means that individual editions may show significant variations from one another. This is indeed the case with the Ganesha Purana, so the 1993 edition by Sharma and the Bailey version are not quite the same text. It is fascinating seeing what elements of the text "stick" in Wiki and which fall away quickly. ") Buddhipriya 23:45, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
What Hindu denomination do you follow? I think you are either a Shaiva or Ganapatya. Best wishes Gizza Chat © 09:24, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
"God can be realized through all paths. All religions are true. The important thing is to reach the roof. You can reach it by stone stairs or by wooden stairs or by bamboo steps or by a rope. You can also climb up by a bamboo pole." - p. 191, The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna, tr. Swami Nikhilananda.
"It is not good to feel that my religion alone is true and other religions are false. The correct attitude is this: My religion is right, but I do not know whether other religions are right or wrong, true or false. I say this because one cannot know the true nature of God unless one realizes Him." - pp. 558-559
"God has made different religions and creeds to suit different aspirants. By no means all are fit for the knowledge of Brahman. Therefore the worship of God with form is provided." - p. 486
ॐ गं गणपतये नमः
Buddhipriya 18:15, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
Hello again. It seems to me that you are not from North India or at least you do not know Hindi. The Hindi pronunciation (and many othe Indian languages) of Devanagari is different from Sanskrit. Firstly, the virama is not needed on Hindi words. This is why in most modern Hindu Indians, North or South, have names like Shiv, Ganesh, Ram, Govind instead of Shiva, Ganesha, Rama, Govinda etc. Secondly, अह् is really pronounced like एह् for non-Sanskrit derived Hindi words. That means Taj Mahal is pronounced as Taj Mehal. This is because of Persian/Muslim/Urdu influences on the language. Often, the "a"s (अ) in the middle of North Indian language words aren't pronounced too if the vowel isn't stressed, expecially in informal usage, like the word tyaar तयार (which means ready). If you see the Sehgal page on Wikipedia, you may notice alternative spellings though the pronunciation is still the same as mine. Of course Sanskrit derived words with अह् are pronouned properly like Maharaj (Great king/emperor) महाराज. Another common pronunciation difference between modern Indian languages and Sanskrit is the "ai" ऐ and "au" औ. Now they are pronounced as ē and ō in all modern Indian languages apart from a few Southern ones like Tamil and maybe some Eastern ones like Bengali. Gizza Chat © 05:47, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Wonderful education for me, thank you! You are correct that I do not know Hindi. Can you comment on regional variations in how the vowel ऋ is pronounced in Hindi? It is my impression that the "trilling" is more pronounced in Northern India but I am not sure if this is correct. By the way, once questions like this have been answered is it OK to delete them from talk pages? I am unclear on Wiki protocol for these exchanges. Is it best to answer on your talk page or keep both questions and replies on the same talk page? Buddhipriya 06:01, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
![]() |
The Exceptional Newcomer Award | |
Here is an award both for your significant contributions to wikipedia as a knowledge repository, particularly the articles Ganesh Purana and Mudgala Purana that you brought up almost single-handedly, as well as the manner in which you comport yourself and interact with other users. Keep it up ! Abecedare 06:11, 8 February 2007 (UTC) |
I noticed that you already correctly dealt with vandalism on the Ganesh Chaturthi page. For future reference, here are somethings you can do about obvious vandalism:
If you are not certain that the edit is vandalism,
assume good faith and leave at least an edit summary informing the editors (and others) the reason why you have reverted the changes. You can request editors to discuss disputed changes on the article's talk page. In such cases also be aware of the
three revert rule !
Finally, my personal advice is that while you should undo vandalism whenever you can, don't get emotionally involved even when you see persistent vandals attacking pages you have devoted time and attention to. As you continue to edit on wikipedia it is inevitable that you will run into persons whose mindset will appear alien to you - rather than let that upset you, it is more fruitful to take some time off, or move to other pages, or get help from admins and the wikipedia community. Above all remember the original reasons you started editing here, which are likely to be out of an desire to contribute to this incredible knowledgebase while having fun and gaining personal satisfaction..
Abecedare
07:26, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for your contributions! Nishkid 64 22:48, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
You have done tremendous work on Wikipedia so far and I hope you continue to do so! Gizza Chat © 08:09, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for removing the commercial spam links from Japa related pages. Appreciated. Regards, Gouranga(UK) 11:51, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Nice work ! By the way, IMDB spells the movie name as Jai Santoshi Maa (the simplified transliteration; see [1]), so it may be good to move the page to that spelling. (I can do that, if you agree to the move) By the way, I too have never created a Hindi movie page and so cannot offer many pointers. I have added a film infobox to the page, although I was too lazy to fill in all the fields :-) Abecedare 22:48, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
You are right, IMDb does use "Maa" -- so that is what I think we should go with. I have done the move and normalized the links to use "Maa". Thank you also for your guidance on how to build more consensus on some of the complex topics. The ability of anyone to change anything is a mysterious and chaotic process. Any suggestions on what to do with the issue of the history section for the Ganesha page? Buddhipriya 22:59, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
An easy way to link to wikipedia policies, guidelines etc is to use shortcuts, instead of typing the whole URL. For example here are five options for pointing to the reliable source guideline:
Typically, options (4) and (5) are preferred (depending upon the context), since they are easier to remember, type and read. Over time, you will have memorized the more common acronyms anyway. Cheers! Abecedare 23:50, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Hello, I am writing in regards to your removing the external link I have placed under Ganehsa. You indicated that it is not a suitable link but did not say why you believe so. Please see the link if you have not already. The site is from Sahaja Yoga (Canada) which is a universal religious organization that holds Shri Ganesha in the highest of regard. [3] The information from the link is from scripture. Please see Dnyaneshwari as reference. Dnyanshwari (aka Jnanadev) expounded on kundalini and the chakras in a most lucid and poetic way. I would like to add the link again and see that it can remain as an appropriate external link. Workie77 20:28, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for wisiting may talk page:
Please do not delete content from articles on Wikipedia, as you did to
Sarmatians. It may be considered
vandalism. If you would like to experiment, please use the
sandbox. Thank you.
Buddhipriya
01:50, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
i was very mistaken, plese forgive me that i talked to you
Nasz 05:01, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Hi Buddhipriya -
Thanks again for all your excellent experimentation, guidance and encouragement. If I may just provide a slightly modified test 2, this test shows the embedding of an IAST template within the DisplayTranslations template works correctly if the pipe-escape ({{!}}) is used instead of the standard pipe (|). (I've added some text to Template:DisplayTranslations' introductory text to attempt to further explain this.) Hope you find this encouraging :-)
With metta, Larry Rosenfeld ( talk) 05:15, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the vandalism template. I'll be sure to use it in future. GrimGary 06:51, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
You questioned the facts on the statement, so I just removed it as the appropriate article is already linked in that section. The Incidents at Disney parks article has all the documented details regarding major injuries and deaths that have occured at Disneyland and elsewhere. SpikeJones 23:56, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
You'll note I have reworded the list you created. My main goal was to change "Thus a Hindu could be defined as a person who:" into "Thus a Hindu could:" because the former sounded as if we were giving the formula for becoming a Hindu with 5 possible options; and I was afraid that such a list would become a magnet for every Hindu editor to add their personal reasons for considering themselves Hindu. Thus soon we would see "born in India", "believe in Ganesha" etc added to the list :-) I am hoping the rewording will instead simply indicate that Hindus come in diverse flavors.
I also combined some bullets of the list since the details of Hindu philosophy are better left to the
Hinduism article; while
Hindu deals better with the demographics and practices.
Finally, do you think it would be a better idea to mention a nastika (atheistic) school in addition to the dualist and non-dualist schools since that illustrates the broad possible range ? We can possibly remove the "subtle" variants, if needed. This is only a minor point and can be left for later/other editors.
Thanks for your help !
Abecedare
02:47, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
I think where you are going is to try to work in Samkhya or Carvaka pages. Perhaps good, but there are some terminology issues. Let me say that I do not know much about Cavaka, I would want to crack the books before answering on that. Regarding Samkhya, the page on Wiki is almost worthless as it fails to explain how the use of that term changed over time. In fact, Samkhya as a general term has little to do with whether or not one wishes to believe in a deistic system. In fact, different views within the general rubric of Samkhya take diametrically opposing points on deism, meaning the personification of the Divine as a personality or Lord (Ishvara). The confusion of Samkhya with "atheism" is common. It does not mean that. The term "na āstika" ("nāstika", simple English may write: "nastika") does not always mean atheist, either. It can simply mean "not pious" in addition to the way most people think of it ("not believing"). āstika means "believing" or "pious". Perhaps avoiding all of these technical terms would be a good idea and try to put the concept into plain English. For example, I think it is true to say that "Not all Hindus believe in a Divine Being." Is that what you are trying to get at? The wiki articles on Hinduism are generally of limited value, in my opinion. Has this raised more questions than it answered? Buddhipriya 02:54, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
Hi
Just want to check why http://www.shirdi-sai-baba.com link was removed from Sai Baba page? This website is 100% relevant.
Are you guys kidding or playing a game?
Can you pls answer? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 122.167.141.217 ( talk) 16:01, 25 February 2007 (UTC).
Thank you for asking aobut link policies on Wikipedia.
Welcome to Wikipedia. We invite everyone to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia. However, the
external links you added do not comply with our
guidelines for external links.
Wikipedia is not a mere directory of links; nor should it be used for
advertising or promotion. Since Wikipedia uses
nofollow tags, external links do not alter search engine rankings. If you feel the link should be added to the article, then please discuss it on the article's talk page before reinserting it. Please take a look at the
welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you.
Buddhipriya
16:55, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
I just glanced at the page and here are my top-of-the-head comments:
Hope these points are helpful. Abecedare 03:59, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Buddhipriya 04:37, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Buddhipriya, the instructions for first proposing a merge and then carrying it out are at WP:Merge. I think Astika + Nastika merge should be non-controversial, given the little attention the two pages receive. Let me know if I can be of any help. Thanks. Abecedare 23:44, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
![]() |
The Barnstar of High Culture | |
In regards to the development of Template:DisplayTranslations, I award you this barnstar for sharing your vast knowledge regarding Indic languages, for sharing it in a patient, thoughtful and tireless way, for sharing it for the betterment of a broad array of WP articles, and for sharing it across a cultural wall that too often is barbed with bitterness and hostility. Your tireless, kind heart gives me hope, Larry Rosenfeld ( talk) 19:44, 27 February 2007 (UTC) |
Namaskar Shri. Buddhipriya ji
First let me clarify that I am not aware of how to communicate with a user as I had never done it. So updating this page. I would appreciate if you can guide me here.
Now coming to the point, I am not sure why you have shot the third warning messages to me for updating page "Hindu deities". (This third update was nothing but a spelling correction!!) On other side of content, one who loves God/Deity and pray them can never be ignorant towards their denigrations. As you are an editor that does not mean you have rights to supress the thoughts of other devotees. I hope you will respect the feelings of others and understand that protecting good image of deity is a practical way of worship of deity. Mere writing long articles and keeping mum while one defames Lord Ganesha is NOT attribute of a real devotee.
With regards,
Anit
28-February-2007
Warning templates
|
Namaskar Buddhipriya ji
Firstly let me be very frank but still I do not see any reason to call my spelling change any kind of Vandalism.
Second, you had asked for particular issues of abuse of Lord Ganesha. Visit links below to view a few of them.
http://www.hindujagruti.org/hinduism/festivals/ganesh/gallery.php?level=album&id=13 http://www.hindujagruti.org/denigrations/ (Same link you objected)
Successful Protests against abuse http://www.hindujagruti.org/denigrations/successful/index.php?id=17 http://www.hindujagruti.org/denigrations/successful
There are links provided of the sources. Hindu deities are being abused on such mass level but we are so ignorant that we hardly raise our voice against them.
Also there was a scam of rupees 24 lacs in Sri Siddhivinayak Temple.
You can drop me a mail if you are interested in knowing more and willing to get alerts for such incidences.
Regards
Anit
I understand you removed it by mistake. I appreciate your humility. No need of apologies. Jbarot 15:54, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
![]() |
The Minor Barnstar | |
For your honest and open approach to things, I hereby present you with the minor barnstar. Your good faith is a refreshing breeze in the often troll-infested maze of "Aryan" topics. dab (𒁳) 19:13, 1 March 2007 (UTC) |
Dear Sir,
Thanks for noticing the additions so soon.
You can get the book from: Director prasaranga University of Mysore Manasagangothri Mysore-570006
you can also get the books from online sources like
https://www.dkagencies.com/doc/Home.html and serch for mummadi.
I also feel the title srittavanidi for your post on ganapati is not right.
If you need any more info ot if you feel i should post all the 32 paintings along with the original kannada texts, kindly let me know. raja
I replaced the link to * Art Passions Fairy Tale Art - Classic Fairy Tale Illustrations that you removed from the Fairy Tale page. First, it's clearly identified that it is Fairy Tale illustrations and therefore no one is going to go there looking for Fairy Tales. Second, I don't think the links to Fairy Tale text should be the sole criteria and neither do you, if it were you would probably not have included sites with copied text but that are mainly intended to generate income through affiliate programs. Those are the head reasons. The heart reason is that I have been spending my free time since 1998 creating this site, doing the scanning, buying antique fairy tale books, and I'm not doing it for my cats. I'm not leading anyone there to sell them anything, unlike sites you did leave in external links.
I see that your vision is a place to contribute "serious" material but I invite you to rethink that. As long as Wikipedia is an open door, and I hope it remains an open door, it will never be accepted as a valid source unless the person citing wikipedia follow the same path as the articles cited. Removing everything that isn't serious (i.e., the fairy tale link) moves Wikipedia ever more toward its transmogrification into an academic hydrant-pissing contest and don't we have enough of that soullessness?
In short, I put my heart into the fairy tales, I want to share them with the world (notwithstanding the many images from my website that now find homes in wikipedia commons), and even if you don't share these values, I ask that you respect my efforts and not remove this link from Fairy Tale.
Thank you.
Xineann
05:21, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Xineann ( talk • contribs) 05:20, 3 March 2007 (UTC).
I have started this new article and would like you help me expand it. I intend to the role of Ganapati in Buddhism , Jainism n also his presence in other countries like Sri lanka, Thailand , Japan etc. Thanks.-- Redtigerxyz 12:44, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
I am so glad that you have created the article and that you are asking to collaborate on it! It is a wonderful subject. Perhaps what I could do first would be to add a section for book references. There are several good books that include material on this, with very beautiful color plates. Since you have asked for participation I will go ahead and add a few that are available fairly widely with ISBN numbers. I was pleased to see that Wikipedia has a very good system for handling citations with ISBN numbers. So long as the ISBN number is included, a user can click on it to get to a variety of book search services to find the item in libraries and online booksellers. I will add at least one or two references today just to get some quality items up. Buddhipriya 18:40, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Hello Buddhipriya, I'd be happy to collaborate on the Narad Bhakti Sutra article. At the moment it's neither one thing or the other. What wdo you think about removing the masses of sanskrit and turing it into a more encyclopedic article containing quotations and disussions of the main points and different philosophical viewpoints on the text etc... is this what you were thinking of? I'm not so much into the wikisource idea as the straight text already exists elsewhere on the web.
In regards to the chronology of Krishna's days on earth I'm not sure if you've seen the discussion on the Krishna talk page? I agree with Abecedare's point, but just didn't want to loose the whole section. The nearest I could find to good reference is the one linked in here ( Dating Krishna). Hope it didn't sound like I was shouting. Best Wishes, ys, Gouranga(UK) 10:13, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Hello, I replied to your comments on my user talk page. Thanks for the kind words. If I may make a suggestion, I would advise looking for a word other than "nonsensical" to describe a current Wikipedia policy, because that could trigger an unproductive emotional reaction from the policy's proponents. Yes, the policy in question does seem rather nonsensical to me too, but merely saying so won't sound very convincing to people to whom the policy makes sense. Instead one has to find out what they do believe currently, and argue on the basis of that. It's hard to change a person's beliefs, but sometimes we can show them that what they are doing in one area is contradicting what they believe in some other area. In other words, to change another person's behavior, one has to show that person how the change we are recommending is more in keeping with that person's values than whatever that person is currently doing. And yes, this is often difficult, but it is much simpler than changing a person's values.
You may wish to add this to your list of links:
Almost everything a person could need to know about editing on Wikipedia is reachable from that page, and I think easier to find there than by many other means.
I noticed you are linking to some Wikipedia pages as external links rather than as wikilinks. For example, instead of:
you could say:
but of course you can use whatever link style you prefer. -- Teratornis 21:57, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
- "For some of us, the popular online encyclopedia has become more interesting as an experiment in emergent bureaucracy than in emergent content.... Wikipedia is beginning to look something like a post-revolutionary Bolshevik Soviet, with an inscrutable central power structure wielding control over a legion of workers."
Can you please explain why you have accused me of a POV statement here [4]? Please look at the Sokal article referenced, it is available online. Kak is clearly accused of practicing pseudo-science by the world's foremost expert on identifying and classifying PS. Please explain yourself. Hornplease 00:46, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
I am avoiding getting involved with the
Subhash Kak page (although I have it watchlisted and follow the changes there), since the page is a can of worms and IMO too positively slanted toward Kak than any article written by an expert in say Britannica or Encarta would be. Of course wikipedia cannot, by design, rely on unpublished "expert" opinion and its articles need to be based on published sources. That policy works brilliantly for mainstream topics (including controversial ones, such as
Intelligent design), since all aspects of such topics have usually been discussed in print. However for subjects that are only of specialized and marginal interest, this doesn't hold true. For instance, X can propose in a press conference that his "latest research has proved" that Ganesha was an historical figure and in fact, the first example of inter-species organ transplant (hope you recognize that I am picking a completely facetious example on purpose), and if X happens to be, say, an Indian doctor who has "made it in America", a lot of (especially Indian) press will give the "discovery" wide coverage. On the other hand no serious medical researcher or historian will even care to refute the notion in print, let alone write an academic article on the subject. So wikipedia's article on X, perforce, will have only one side (albeit the nonsensical side) of the story.
Coming back to Kak: His writings in fields of which I have (real-life) knowledge are, to put it bluntly, unadulterated nonsense [1], and I have not seen any evidence that he fares better in other areas where I have no personal claim of knowledge or education. Of course, the previous sentence is only my opinion (i.e., original research in wikipedia terminology) and as such deserves no place on Subhash Kak's page or any other article on wikipedia. But since there are so many other topics on wikipedia that I consider more interesting and worthwhile, I choose to devote my attention to them instead.
[1]: I know this description will sound uncharacteristically harsh, but honestly some of his published writings would earn even a high-school student failing grades. See
[6] and
[7] for discussion on the latest example. These sources are non-reliable for wikipedia purposes, but you are free to use them to form your personal opinion.
Abecedare
03:20, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
How is "evidence sufficient" to make "identification" that I am a "sock-puppet"? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Randomatom001 ( talk • contribs) 15:26, 21 March 2007 (UTC).
You call yourself a Hindu? I was deleting anti-Hindu view on the webpages but you just keep reverting my material. YOU ARE AN IMPOSTER! Stop calling me a sock-puppet as I am not.
(The above unsigned comment is documented here)
A block message is not a reliable indicator of the block status, since anybody (including non-admins) can place/remove it. The only way to definitely know if a user is blocked (or has been blocked in the past) is to look at his "block log". Similarly you can check when the user's account was created, or which images they have uploaded by checking the "User log". The "vandal" template provides easy links to both these special pages. Incidentally the same principle also applies to protection templates on article pages, admin claims on user pages etc. Abecedare 04:38, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Good suggestion. The last time I tried to set one of these up I did it wrong. Could you please create the page and post a link on the discussion page? Sorry for the extra work. This time I'll nake a note on how to do it on my user page. Thanks.-- Cberlet 13:41, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
I think our views match to such a large extent, that the isolated point on where we (possibly) differ has perhaps been amplified in our discussions. I'll list my opinion on use of IAST below, so that we can judge if we do have any substantial difference of opinion in practice (i.e. not at a "philosophical" level, which may be irrelevant to our editing at wikipedia). In my view:
So leaving aside, any issues regarding why-we-think-what-we-think, is there anything you would change in the above formulation ? Note: I am not really attempting to convince you of my view (or asking you to convert me to IASTranism :-) ) but rather trying to gauge where we differ on this issue.
PS: I realize that my note on the
Nastika talk page hurt your feelings. I used the wikipedia short-cut jargon in terming your analysis not incorrect but "OR"; I can see how that comment can come across as accusatory rather than an objective statement. I apologize for the same.
Abecedare
01:29, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
PPS: I added point 4 after reading at your comments. I very strongly agree with this as a matter of acdemic integrity, but had forgotten to list it earlier.
Abecedare
02:13, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
You are always very clear and helpful in how you go about exchanging views, which I appreciate very much. It is very helpful to see your points so clear. I realize that I may not have clearly thought through my own views, so let me try now. This may be disorderly, but I have less experience with the Wiki environment so must start with my own beliefs.
1. IAST is the academic standard for the romanization of Sanskrit.
2. There is the potential for significant information loss if IAST is not used, and the nature of the loss in meaning may not be obvious. I just had the opportunity to review a source text for the Narada Bhakti Sutra that someone placed online and it was almost completely worthless due to use of simple English.
3. If we are to ever have credibility we must get to a point where an Indologist would look at a Wiki page and see that it is not obviously wrong. That requires IAST. Other disciplines such as mathematics allow the use of special notation on pages, so why can't we? I use the word "wrong" because that is how Indologists often see simple English.
4. Based on all of those points, I believe that IAST should be encouraged as the standard of practice for all content. Those who cannot add IAST should not worry about it, but those who can should not be discouraged from doing it.
5. If an editor has added IAST, before reverting it the reversion should be specifically discussed with that editor in order to understand if there was some particular reason why the editor felt the IAST added value to the argument. In the nastika case, my entire point made no sense without IAST. The equivalent in a math article would be removal of some symbol in an equation because it was too confusing.
6. Virtually all of the books in my library that may make good citations for this project are in IAST or Devanagari. If I am to make a quotation of something, to change the IAST would require some process of converting the text to simple English, and I do not know how to do that. I do not think there is a generally-accepted way to do it, since IAST is the standard. So my conversion of the reliable source to simple English would amount to changing the source. Therefore any quotation that uses IAST should be preserved.
7. At a minimum I certainly endorse the mimimal steps you suggest, such using IAST at the time a term is defined, or when etymology is dealt with. You also mention short phrases such as mantras which also would be tedious to show both ways.
8. If there is no standard for how to do this in the Hindusim project, editors may vary in what they do. See this edit for a conversation I am having with User:GourangaUK, who likes IAST. I asked him about it specifically because we are collaborating on an article and I wanted to reach agreement with him before doing much work, which I envision using IAST. So in the absence of any good guideline, it may be good practice for individual editors to come to agreement on how to handle specific articles.
I look forward to discussing all of this with you, since you are so reasonable. Buddhipriya 02:07, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Taking your last point first, I think Krishna is a good example of a term where the practice of simply defining it in IAST at first use is fine, and then switching to the commonly-known English equivalent is fine. The goal is not simply "an ostentatious display of scholarship", however gratifying that may be. :)
Regarding "harder to read" for a general audience, I think that issue is overblown. The example with Krishna is a good example where I do agree with you that the loss of a recognizable English vowel is likely to confuse the reader (ṛ versus ri). Removal of visible vowel cues for the English reader is a problem with that vowel in particular because it is perceived by the English reader as a loss of information - where has the vowel gone? The confusion between śiva and shiva is of this type, a loss of the aspiration cue - where has the h gone? For a word the English reader is likely to have heard before and has a conceptual model of already, such as Krishna or Shiva, the loss of cues is upsetting. On the other hand, most of the IAST notation involves adding cues to letters, trying to deal with the 42% loss of symbols in the Latin-1 character set. So we get rāja (king) instead of raja (dust). The addition of the cues may not disturb the reader in the same way as removal of cues.
By the way, I have had a few nice exchanges with people related to the Buddhist pages, where they are trying to decide what to do about Chinese and Japanese characters. So I think this conversation we are having has applicability across Wikipedia.
I hope no one in NASA is relying on Wikipedia for math formulas, based on what you say.
When you mention that "fortunately/unfortunately, our audience is not Indologists - else someone would have brought Indian philosophy up to shape simply out of disgust with its current condition" you have raised an important point about attraction and retention of experts. If we want to improve the quality of the articles, it would helpful to get some people participating who actually know something about the topics, or at least possess a book on the subject and are willing to read it.
The problem of Wikipedia:Expert_retention is of particular importance to Indology, where access to sources is more limited than access to information about Anna Nicole Smith. There are probably thousands of people on Wikipedia who are monitoring news reports about her tragic death and can instantly detect and fix irregularities in details about her. But how many people on Wikipedia are prepared to tackle recensions of the Vedas? Is it true that there are but 12 recensions of the Samaveda, as is claimed (without reference) in the article? Does controversy rage over that question as it does over the father of Nicole's child? (In fact, I am the real father of the child, and I think I shall put that into the article now so the truth can be known.)
I am certainly no expert on anything, but I wish we could somehow attract real Indology experts to this project. We could learn so much from them if they were here. But they will never come unless we make them feel welcome and needed. We must somehow create a belief that it is possible to contribute serious material here. That is the vision I have.
Buddhipriya 03:48, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
This dialog has been very helpful to me in clarifying issues. I have gone over the thread and have tried to refactor it to get a draft of what may become the nucleus of a statement on IAST that we may be able to agree on. If we can get a clear summary that the two of us can agree on, perhaps we could share our points of agreement with others to see if there can be more general consensus reached. Building agreement slowly around even a few points would help the Hinduism Project on this issue. Please give me your reactions to this restatement of ideas:
1. Basic assumptions
2. IAST should be specified when:
3. Except as noted above, IAST should not be routinely used when:
I changed the IAST tags to Unicode in the Panini article for three reasons: to consistently use one template through the article, to make the font in the article appear consistently, and because it looks to me like the extended functionality of the tag wasn't being made use of. If I'm in error about this last please feel free to revert. -- Stlemur 03:12, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Dear friend, Just wanted to let you know that India is multi religion country and that statement in Hindutva page reflects that Only Hindus respect their country and all other religions have no respect for their country of birth. All religious scripts of India define to respect and protect their country of birth, Hence the statement in this page should also state about other religions. Please let me know if you still need more clarifications and would be glad to help you out. with love John Paul 05:10, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
The problem is, there is an official order for it, in WP:LAYOUT, though I see somebody has changed it without discussion. It is simply not right to use an idiosyncratic layout when there is a standard, regardless of whether you saw it in a featured article. In fact, changing it at all is in my opinion wrong, as it simply creates a hugh amount of unnecessary work, as most articles follow the standard. IPSOS ( talk) 00:07, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for tolerating an idiot such as myself, you are too kind. Regards, Gouranga(UK) 11:52, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
I just edited and revised the rubbish that was put our earlier on these pages and you reverted back to the rubbish. Please explain on what authority did you reverted my edits.
Hulagu
that correct? Buddhipriya 04:04, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
What content without citing sources are you talking about. Dont undo any changes without discussion. If a citation is required then tag it as such. But dont undo it. I am aware of Wikipedia rules as improvement is an ongiung process. -- Anishshah19 07:26, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Hello. You removed the criticism of The argumentative Indian. I request you to restore it based on the following from WP:RS: "When a well-known, professional researcher writing within his or her field of expertise, or a well-known professional journalist, has produced self-published material, these may be acceptable as sources, so long as his or her work has been previously published by credible, third-party publications. Editors should exercise caution for two reasons: first, if the information on the professional researcher's blog (or self-published equivalent) is really worth reporting, a reliable source will probably have covered it; secondly, the information has been self-published, which means it has not been subject to independent fact-checking."
I don't know if I can contribute to the article in content, but I certainly enjoyed reading it! By the way, you may want to request User:Rudrasharman to weigh in - I recall he had referenced Nirukta (particularly Naighantuka) during the discussions on the Talk:Ashvamedha page. Cheers. Abecedare 07:55, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the heads-up. I've added the article to my watchlist and also made a request for help here. It's becoming a bit of an irritation.
On a more positive note - would you know any article where this photograph I uploaded last year might find a good home? Best Wishes, ys Gouranga(UK) 11:54, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
No problems at all with the cut & paste - I have no other image of the crowd, but do have a much clearer (& complete) photo of Ganesh taken from a nearer distance if you think that will help? Ys, Gouranga(UK) 13:27, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
Alright, I can prepare a presentation for you. Please start by reading this, in case you haven't already. The title of the subsection in question is POV. It would be better to say "Buddha as a non-dualist." There are no sources cited; for this reason I find it somewhat odd that you reverted my edit which gave a general reference. Madhyamika was the first fully developed non-dual philosophy, and its brand of non-dualism is (in my and David Loy's view) more sophisticated than any later philosophies such as Advaita. I hope you can see how a Buddhist would interpret the implication that Advaita is the true development of the Buddha's thought as objectionable. Arrow740 08:52, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
I got a message from you about me vandalizing some article on Vedas. All I did was remove some "timing" information from the article which I didn't consider to be accurate. It said something like although the Vedas have been around since 2000 BC ... I consider the Vedas as apaurusheya, hence my deletion.
Manas
Haven't seen you in a while and your contributions could be helpful on quite a few articles currently. cheers — Spaceman Spiff 05:36, 22 June 2011 (UTC)