Hi Ed. Just a reminder not to forget to add {{ DYKbotdo|~~~}} when updating, or the bot will make a noise at AN :) ≈ Chamal talk ¤ 03:20, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Please discuss (and warn us of) such things before doing them. I've started a thread on the talk page. -- Golbez ( talk) 14:31, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
I don't follow your argument here: [2]. I count three IPs vandalising the article today - all in a narrow range, but surely a temp semi on one article is better than a rangeblock? Philip Trueman ( talk) 16:00, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Hey noticed you indefitly protected the U.S. Article, thanks for that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aaron mcd ( talk • contribs) 23:01, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
| |||
Greetings to all members of the Military history WikiProject, and to those outside the project who receive this news letter as well! My name is TomStar81, and it with a great sense of pride that I assume the position of lead coordinator for the project. On behalf of all the coordinators, both new and returning, we wish to thank those of you who participated in the September elections, and we look forward to working to advance the goals of the project for the next six months. With the elections concluded, there are two changes. First, Roger Davies has been appointed a coordinator emeritus, joining our first coordinator emeritus Kirill Lokshin. Secondly, for the first time ever, the lead coordinator for the Military history WikiProject will be taking a lengthy wikibreak. For those who were unaware of this, I am an undergraduate student, and will be taking a leave of absence, effective end September, to focus on graduating in December. However, with fourteen coordinators, and two coordinators emeritus, I am confident the needs of the project will be well taken care of. For the VIII coordinator tranche, TomStar81 ( Talk) |
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New featured lists: New featured topics: New featured pictures: New A-Class articles: | ||
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This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot ( talk) 23:59, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
The
September 2009 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by
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talk) 02:57, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Hello The ed17. See WP:AN3#User:82.29.16.209 reported by User:MassassiUK (Result: Watching for more BLP violations) in which your lifting of the semiprotection from the Stedman Pearson article is mentioned. The case was filed against an 82.29.* IP who was removing the Controversy section, but some editors are concerned about BLP, since an 80.41.* IP keeps on adding it. I assume you're keeping an eye on the problem, so I've closed the 3RR case. EdJohnston ( talk) 03:51, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Dear The ed17,
I have closed your recent RfA as successful per the consensus of the community. Congratulations, you are now a sysop! Please make sure you're aware of the Administrators' how-to guide and are aware of the items on the Administrators' reading list. Finally, please don't hesitate in contacting me if you need anything. Best of luck in your new position! — Anonymous Dissident Talk 03:45, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
Thanks everyone, it's much appreciated! Tom, my primary focus is still working on battleships; adminship was just something on the side so I can help out every so often when I am needed. :-) Also, in case anyone wants to pitch in, take a look at User:The ed17/Sandbox/Japanese battleship Tosa. Cheers, — Ed (talk • contribs) 20:24, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
Well done YellowMonkey ( bananabucket) 01:23, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Congratulations. Here are what pass for words of wisdom from the puppy: |
|
DISCLAIMER: This humor does not reflect the official humor of Wikipedia, the Wikimedia Foundation, or Jimbo Wales. All rights released under GFDL. |
Heya. I was going through RFPP and I noted this request by Baseball Bugs to protect his userpage; you declined, probably due to seeing the word "pre-emptively" (don't worry, I would have done the same haha). I've protected it due to policy. Cheers, Master of Puppets - Call me MoP! :D 14:10, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Wuh Wuz Dat 05:30, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
|
The Military history A-Class medal | |
For excellent work on North Carolina class battleship, Brazilian cruiser Bahia and Tosa class battleship, promoted to A-Class between September and October 2009, by order of the coordinators of the Military history WikiProject, you are hereby awarded the Milhist A-Class medal. – Juliancolton | Talk 20:34, 9 October 2009 (UTC) |
The edits were using a term, "railroad mark", that doesn't exist. It would be like if someone placed in Barack Obama that Obama is the "head minister" of the U.S. I don't think anyone would hesitate before rolling that back.
By the way, you might want to remove Whowuzdat's rollback, while you're at it. -- NE2 02:09, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Anyway, suffice it to say that if I get rollback back I won't use it for anything even close to the border, even if clearly on the vandalism side. -- NE2 02:50, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Hey Ed, for a timeline article (of a war, to be specific), is it better to use past tense or present tense? Timeline of the Adriatic campaign, 1807–1814 (an FL) uses past tense, while most timelines such as the ones of WWI and WWII use present tense. What do you think? Is there a MILHIST guideline for this? ≈ Chamal talk ¤ 08:52, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi, you declined this request because of not enough recent disruptive activity. I imagine there probably aren't any hard and fast rules about this but please could you give me an idea of what levels of vandalism you would be looking for to grant these requests, so I can avoid requesting too soon again? Thanks Cassandra 73 ( talk) 22:31, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Repeated, willful, proud violations of BLP over and over again are not disruptive? Who then was a gentleman? ( talk) 02:29, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
Hey Ed. I've been wanting to create an article on the US Marine Corps' P42 camouflage scheme used during World War II; it's that splotch pattern you'll see occasionally on jackets and helmet covers. I also want to create a page on Rhodesian camouflage, since it's pretty well known and there isn't an article covering it. I can provide pictures of my own samples if you'd like. The only thing I have trouble with is finding a proper online source to verify their existences in the eyes of the academia. Thanks. Colosseum ( talk) 00:16, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
Thank you for leaving a message with me while failing to address the concerns of the reverts in the first place. Well done. -- Labattblueboy ( talk) 00:21, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
Apparently I may have a problem... - MBK 004 04:36, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the image heads up. I'm not too upset (I would have gone to his grave anyway when I was in Moscow, that cemetery is a tourist attraction) and there are many more photos of him. I think we can probably survive on the Bundesarchiv ones, the ones from the US National Archives (I'm sure I could find more by contacting the Eisenhower Library), and possibly others that have wound up in the public domain. It will all work out. I'm impressed by the workout you MilHist folks are giving me, though feeling that some of the comments are a bit off target (due to the broad scope of the article, a guy who did a lot in his life), it is hard to go into hugely fine detail). I'll work on it next week.-- Wehwalt ( talk) 21:17, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi, Just wanted to let you know that a page that you semi-protected : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_India_(Maoist) has been vandalised again by user Mehrrunissa, who was recently blocked for doing exactly that. S/he takes large chunks out and inserts statements without any citation. I have undid the edit. But if the user does it again I think s/he should be blocked for indefinite. Thanks. Vinter-light ( talk) 12:45, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
I just noticed she did the same thing on this page as well - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naxalite. Here admin Prezbo has changed it back. Even though these are major edits, s/he is purposefully tagging them as minor.
Vinter-light ( talk) 12:49, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. S/he has been at it again, s/he just goes and reverts other people's edits. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_India_(Maoist) This time alongwith vandalisation, s/he has started harassing me by a false accusation of "known sockpuppet" at me. Vinter-light ( talk) 05:15, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi, Ed! I thought you've read my posts on the Commons page. See the latest report too, please. I'm not an expert on copyright. If there's anything that I can do for the matter, please let me know. Best regards. Oda Mari ( talk) 16:29, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
If you're around, hop on over to IRC? iMatthew talk at 19:57, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi, I have been helping create articles of officers Commanding His Majesty's Australian Squadron and have a question if you know the answer or can point me in the right direction. The question is whether Leonard Holbrook was a commodore prior to his appointment as Rear Admiral and specifically whether this occured while in Command of His Majesty's Australian Squadron. The London Gazette lists in his promotion as Rear Admiral, a day prior to being placed on the retired list, as being Captain. Can you help? Kind Regards Newm30 ( talk) 03:19, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
I know the page is on your watchlist, but you may not be looking at the watchlist :) - MBK 004 00:37, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
The following is how it appears on WP:FS:
Shoemaker's Holiday Over 213 FCs served 00:39, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Thank you for the birthday note. I had to work off some cake-produced calories in a run this morning. Cla68 ( talk) 07:07, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Ed, could you do a copy edit on the lead section of this? Take your time, and no problem if you are busy. I've been working on it for 3 days and it's just too familiar for me now to spot any problems :P ≈ Chamal talk ¤ 11:00, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
The WikiCup Newsletter | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Hi, once we have finished these additions to Brazilian battleship Aquidaban do you want to try to get it listed at WP:DYK? Thanks for the work on the article so far :) -- Casmith_789 ( talk) 21:08, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Surprised that not many other people noticed the issues there, except the stakeholders in teh said article YellowMonkey ( bananabucket) 00:55, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
Ed, I've tried doing a search for convoys that Bahia was involved in but it is complicated by the fact that Bahia is a port and was also a German merchant vessel. Yahoo search results for Bahia and Rio Grande do Sul Mjroots ( talk) 15:08, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
Guys, I'm finally getting the hang of this, thanks for all your help. Citation inserted and I have notified others to help me with a re-write - clients and analysts. I'd recommend you two plus R'n'B to everyone. My first encounter with Wiki was a nightmare but I soon worked it out and am still learning and reading the support documents closer. 6G ( talk) 10:08, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi, Thanks for updating my subpage User:Dr pda/Featured article statistics recently. However I have just regenerated this list since (for various reasons) I prefer to use "readable prose" size rather than "wiki text" size as a measure of the length of FAs. Using readable prose size does mean the generatestats script takes ~2.5 hours to run, instead of 25 seconds if I use wiki text, which is why I don't update it very often. There is already a page, Wikipedia:Featured articles/By length which has the list of FAs sorted by their wiki text size, and this page is updated weekly (I think) by a bot. Dr pda ( talk) 23:48, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Hey I noticed that you're one of the coordinator of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/South American military history task force. I've been editing some articles this week ( Francisco Solano Lopez (politician), Eliza Lynch, Treaty of the Triple Alliance, and War of the Triple Alliance. I've only been at it a week so I'm a bit lost since I don't know how else to improve it. I'd really like to get one of these articles (speacially the War or López one) nominated to FA. Could you help me please in some manner? I have a huge interest in Paraguayan military history and I plan to continue improving Paraguay's articles (I've already been working a lot to try and make anything realted to Paraguay a bit more decent by making templates and such) especially those related to the Triple Alliance war. Any sort of hlp would be hugely appreciated. Thx! Veritiel ( talk) 17:16, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the sources, I really appreciate it. Now hopefully, with these I can work on improving it more. Burningview ✉ 01:22, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for cleaning up/reorganizing the ships' list on the Audacious class aircraft carrier. It was confusing! - BilCat ( talk) 17:24, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
As Halloween is my favorite holiday, I just wanted to wish those Wikipedians who have been nice enough to give me a barnstar or smile at me, supportive enough to agree with me, etc., a Happy Halloween! Sincerely, -- A Nobody My talk 23:48, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi Ed. Just a reminder not to forget to add {{ DYKbotdo|~~~}} when updating, or the bot will make a noise at AN :) ≈ Chamal talk ¤ 03:20, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Please discuss (and warn us of) such things before doing them. I've started a thread on the talk page. -- Golbez ( talk) 14:31, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
I don't follow your argument here: [2]. I count three IPs vandalising the article today - all in a narrow range, but surely a temp semi on one article is better than a rangeblock? Philip Trueman ( talk) 16:00, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Hey noticed you indefitly protected the U.S. Article, thanks for that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aaron mcd ( talk • contribs) 23:01, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
| |||
Greetings to all members of the Military history WikiProject, and to those outside the project who receive this news letter as well! My name is TomStar81, and it with a great sense of pride that I assume the position of lead coordinator for the project. On behalf of all the coordinators, both new and returning, we wish to thank those of you who participated in the September elections, and we look forward to working to advance the goals of the project for the next six months. With the elections concluded, there are two changes. First, Roger Davies has been appointed a coordinator emeritus, joining our first coordinator emeritus Kirill Lokshin. Secondly, for the first time ever, the lead coordinator for the Military history WikiProject will be taking a lengthy wikibreak. For those who were unaware of this, I am an undergraduate student, and will be taking a leave of absence, effective end September, to focus on graduating in December. However, with fourteen coordinators, and two coordinators emeritus, I am confident the needs of the project will be well taken care of. For the VIII coordinator tranche, TomStar81 ( Talk) |
New featured articles:
New featured lists: New featured topics: New featured pictures: New A-Class articles: | ||
| |||
| |||
| |||
To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please list yourself in the appropriate section here. |
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot ( talk) 23:59, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
The
September 2009 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by
BrownBot (
talk) 02:57, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Hello The ed17. See WP:AN3#User:82.29.16.209 reported by User:MassassiUK (Result: Watching for more BLP violations) in which your lifting of the semiprotection from the Stedman Pearson article is mentioned. The case was filed against an 82.29.* IP who was removing the Controversy section, but some editors are concerned about BLP, since an 80.41.* IP keeps on adding it. I assume you're keeping an eye on the problem, so I've closed the 3RR case. EdJohnston ( talk) 03:51, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Dear The ed17,
I have closed your recent RfA as successful per the consensus of the community. Congratulations, you are now a sysop! Please make sure you're aware of the Administrators' how-to guide and are aware of the items on the Administrators' reading list. Finally, please don't hesitate in contacting me if you need anything. Best of luck in your new position! — Anonymous Dissident Talk 03:45, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
Thanks everyone, it's much appreciated! Tom, my primary focus is still working on battleships; adminship was just something on the side so I can help out every so often when I am needed. :-) Also, in case anyone wants to pitch in, take a look at User:The ed17/Sandbox/Japanese battleship Tosa. Cheers, — Ed (talk • contribs) 20:24, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
Well done YellowMonkey ( bananabucket) 01:23, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Congratulations. Here are what pass for words of wisdom from the puppy: |
|
DISCLAIMER: This humor does not reflect the official humor of Wikipedia, the Wikimedia Foundation, or Jimbo Wales. All rights released under GFDL. |
Heya. I was going through RFPP and I noted this request by Baseball Bugs to protect his userpage; you declined, probably due to seeing the word "pre-emptively" (don't worry, I would have done the same haha). I've protected it due to policy. Cheers, Master of Puppets - Call me MoP! :D 14:10, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Wuh Wuz Dat 05:30, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
|
The Military history A-Class medal | |
For excellent work on North Carolina class battleship, Brazilian cruiser Bahia and Tosa class battleship, promoted to A-Class between September and October 2009, by order of the coordinators of the Military history WikiProject, you are hereby awarded the Milhist A-Class medal. – Juliancolton | Talk 20:34, 9 October 2009 (UTC) |
The edits were using a term, "railroad mark", that doesn't exist. It would be like if someone placed in Barack Obama that Obama is the "head minister" of the U.S. I don't think anyone would hesitate before rolling that back.
By the way, you might want to remove Whowuzdat's rollback, while you're at it. -- NE2 02:09, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Anyway, suffice it to say that if I get rollback back I won't use it for anything even close to the border, even if clearly on the vandalism side. -- NE2 02:50, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Hey Ed, for a timeline article (of a war, to be specific), is it better to use past tense or present tense? Timeline of the Adriatic campaign, 1807–1814 (an FL) uses past tense, while most timelines such as the ones of WWI and WWII use present tense. What do you think? Is there a MILHIST guideline for this? ≈ Chamal talk ¤ 08:52, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi, you declined this request because of not enough recent disruptive activity. I imagine there probably aren't any hard and fast rules about this but please could you give me an idea of what levels of vandalism you would be looking for to grant these requests, so I can avoid requesting too soon again? Thanks Cassandra 73 ( talk) 22:31, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Repeated, willful, proud violations of BLP over and over again are not disruptive? Who then was a gentleman? ( talk) 02:29, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
Hey Ed. I've been wanting to create an article on the US Marine Corps' P42 camouflage scheme used during World War II; it's that splotch pattern you'll see occasionally on jackets and helmet covers. I also want to create a page on Rhodesian camouflage, since it's pretty well known and there isn't an article covering it. I can provide pictures of my own samples if you'd like. The only thing I have trouble with is finding a proper online source to verify their existences in the eyes of the academia. Thanks. Colosseum ( talk) 00:16, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
Thank you for leaving a message with me while failing to address the concerns of the reverts in the first place. Well done. -- Labattblueboy ( talk) 00:21, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
Apparently I may have a problem... - MBK 004 04:36, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the image heads up. I'm not too upset (I would have gone to his grave anyway when I was in Moscow, that cemetery is a tourist attraction) and there are many more photos of him. I think we can probably survive on the Bundesarchiv ones, the ones from the US National Archives (I'm sure I could find more by contacting the Eisenhower Library), and possibly others that have wound up in the public domain. It will all work out. I'm impressed by the workout you MilHist folks are giving me, though feeling that some of the comments are a bit off target (due to the broad scope of the article, a guy who did a lot in his life), it is hard to go into hugely fine detail). I'll work on it next week.-- Wehwalt ( talk) 21:17, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi, Just wanted to let you know that a page that you semi-protected : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_India_(Maoist) has been vandalised again by user Mehrrunissa, who was recently blocked for doing exactly that. S/he takes large chunks out and inserts statements without any citation. I have undid the edit. But if the user does it again I think s/he should be blocked for indefinite. Thanks. Vinter-light ( talk) 12:45, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
I just noticed she did the same thing on this page as well - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naxalite. Here admin Prezbo has changed it back. Even though these are major edits, s/he is purposefully tagging them as minor.
Vinter-light ( talk) 12:49, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. S/he has been at it again, s/he just goes and reverts other people's edits. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_India_(Maoist) This time alongwith vandalisation, s/he has started harassing me by a false accusation of "known sockpuppet" at me. Vinter-light ( talk) 05:15, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi, Ed! I thought you've read my posts on the Commons page. See the latest report too, please. I'm not an expert on copyright. If there's anything that I can do for the matter, please let me know. Best regards. Oda Mari ( talk) 16:29, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
If you're around, hop on over to IRC? iMatthew talk at 19:57, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi, I have been helping create articles of officers Commanding His Majesty's Australian Squadron and have a question if you know the answer or can point me in the right direction. The question is whether Leonard Holbrook was a commodore prior to his appointment as Rear Admiral and specifically whether this occured while in Command of His Majesty's Australian Squadron. The London Gazette lists in his promotion as Rear Admiral, a day prior to being placed on the retired list, as being Captain. Can you help? Kind Regards Newm30 ( talk) 03:19, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
I know the page is on your watchlist, but you may not be looking at the watchlist :) - MBK 004 00:37, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
The following is how it appears on WP:FS:
Shoemaker's Holiday Over 213 FCs served 00:39, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Thank you for the birthday note. I had to work off some cake-produced calories in a run this morning. Cla68 ( talk) 07:07, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Ed, could you do a copy edit on the lead section of this? Take your time, and no problem if you are busy. I've been working on it for 3 days and it's just too familiar for me now to spot any problems :P ≈ Chamal talk ¤ 11:00, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
The WikiCup Newsletter | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Hi, once we have finished these additions to Brazilian battleship Aquidaban do you want to try to get it listed at WP:DYK? Thanks for the work on the article so far :) -- Casmith_789 ( talk) 21:08, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Surprised that not many other people noticed the issues there, except the stakeholders in teh said article YellowMonkey ( bananabucket) 00:55, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
Ed, I've tried doing a search for convoys that Bahia was involved in but it is complicated by the fact that Bahia is a port and was also a German merchant vessel. Yahoo search results for Bahia and Rio Grande do Sul Mjroots ( talk) 15:08, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
Guys, I'm finally getting the hang of this, thanks for all your help. Citation inserted and I have notified others to help me with a re-write - clients and analysts. I'd recommend you two plus R'n'B to everyone. My first encounter with Wiki was a nightmare but I soon worked it out and am still learning and reading the support documents closer. 6G ( talk) 10:08, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi, Thanks for updating my subpage User:Dr pda/Featured article statistics recently. However I have just regenerated this list since (for various reasons) I prefer to use "readable prose" size rather than "wiki text" size as a measure of the length of FAs. Using readable prose size does mean the generatestats script takes ~2.5 hours to run, instead of 25 seconds if I use wiki text, which is why I don't update it very often. There is already a page, Wikipedia:Featured articles/By length which has the list of FAs sorted by their wiki text size, and this page is updated weekly (I think) by a bot. Dr pda ( talk) 23:48, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Hey I noticed that you're one of the coordinator of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/South American military history task force. I've been editing some articles this week ( Francisco Solano Lopez (politician), Eliza Lynch, Treaty of the Triple Alliance, and War of the Triple Alliance. I've only been at it a week so I'm a bit lost since I don't know how else to improve it. I'd really like to get one of these articles (speacially the War or López one) nominated to FA. Could you help me please in some manner? I have a huge interest in Paraguayan military history and I plan to continue improving Paraguay's articles (I've already been working a lot to try and make anything realted to Paraguay a bit more decent by making templates and such) especially those related to the Triple Alliance war. Any sort of hlp would be hugely appreciated. Thx! Veritiel ( talk) 17:16, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the sources, I really appreciate it. Now hopefully, with these I can work on improving it more. Burningview ✉ 01:22, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for cleaning up/reorganizing the ships' list on the Audacious class aircraft carrier. It was confusing! - BilCat ( talk) 17:24, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
As Halloween is my favorite holiday, I just wanted to wish those Wikipedians who have been nice enough to give me a barnstar or smile at me, supportive enough to agree with me, etc., a Happy Halloween! Sincerely, -- A Nobody My talk 23:48, 30 October 2009 (UTC)