This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Sunni Islam template. |
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Archives: 1 |
Islam: Sunni Islam Template‑class | ||||||||||
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The Arabic version of this template includes the Muslim Brotherhood as a movement. There is a good point to be made in that the MB is both an organization and an ideology. Additionally, we also have the Tablighi Jamaat, Murabitun World Movement and Ansar as-Sunnah - where do they fit in? Organizations or movements? And is there a way to work them in without causing the template to become bloated? MezzoMezzo ( talk) 03:34, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
Is it wiki policy to use other Wikipedia articles as a reference guide for things concerning encyclopaedic entries on Wikipedia? Can you provide peer-reviewed English language sources please? F.Tromble ( talk) 10:40, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
Template looks really dull comparing to other islamic and religious templates. Needs to be re-worked on. elmasmelih (used to be KazekageTR) 12:04, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
When you click view button at the bottom it jumps to Template:Shia Islam... in addition template is incorrect collapsible option was used in some articles due to space limitations in those pages hence | bodyclass = collapsible is necessary, i.e hide/show -option
Sufi is not a school of divinity. Why does this keep getting added when there is no proof that it is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.205.198.201 ( talk) 18:49, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
It was such an obvious error I didn't see why there was a need for a lengthy discussion. You'll note that none of the 4 individuals who accused me of vandalism or claimed that there were "many references" for there view will come here with a single evidence to back up there claim. The main reason for this is that here isn't any evidence. Anyway, Sufi is not a school of theology and should not be listed there. I don't believe it fits in with any of the existing sections. I did consider "movements", however this doesn't feel right either as there is overlap with other Sufi movements such as Barelvi. Another option would be to put a new section entitled "Sufi orders" and then list the main orders such as Qadiri, Chishty etc... a bit like the Sunni schools of law section. This should be acceptable as Sufism is part of Sunni Islam. As for Ahl Hadith, this is clearly a movement and should be moved there. By the way, my IP address has changed again. Apparently I am meant to inform others of this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.205.251.225 ( talk) 08:53, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
As expected, none of those who accused me of vandalism or PoV pushing have contributed to this discussion. The main reason is that they have no evidence whatsoever that Sufism is a school of theology. The "many references" they claim do not exist. I will therefore make the change that should have never have been reversed in the first place. Sigh.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.205.251.37 ( talk) 09:09, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
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HyperGaruda (
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Sufi is not a school of divinity. Why does this keep getting added when there is no proof that it is. Please remove.
213.205.198.201 ( talk) 18:53, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
{{
edit protected}}
template.
clpo13(
talk) 20:36, 20 February 2016 (UTC)"Among the leading factors behind the demise of kalam was an anti-theological school of thought that staunchly opposed the classical theological enterprise as it responded to a range of sociopolitical concerns and conflicts, principally from the seventh to tenth centuries (CE). This is the historical tradition that stressed strict adherence to the literal outward (zahir) meanings of the sacred texts, known as the Athariyya creedal school. For the Atharis, human reason can neither be trusted nor relied upon in matters of religion, thus making theology a sinful and dangerous exercise in human arrogance. Following the demise of kalam, this distinctly anti-theological strain of Islamic thought, which once struggled with the intellectual argumentation of the classical Sunni theologians, flourished and contributed in important ways to the reformulation of Islamic political theory in the twentieth century, now known as “Islamism.”" [1] Doug Weller talk 08:15, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
There has been a long-running dispute relating to the status of the Zahiri school. It seems to have arrived at a consensus with respect to the Zahiri article, but we still have a disagreement about presentation in this template. There are two relevant areas of controversy:
The question is how the Sunni Islam template should be designed in view of the above. Here are the options which have been floated:
Thoughts? Eperoton ( talk) 03:23, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
@ MezzoMezzo, CounterTime, Rubbish computer, John Carter, and Misdemenor: Although the votes above seem like consensus at a glance, there is disagreement over what to call the second sub-section (3 votes for "other" vs. 2 votes for "inactive"). The next step would be to try reaching a consensus on these alternatives. Eperoton ( talk) 14:17, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
The RfC has served its purpose in attracting additional participants and revealing their choices. If we can't reach consensus for change, the template would default to its current state. Since it's farther from the "inactive" option than it is from "other", I would expect that the editors arguing for the former would take particular interest in consensus-building. Eperoton ( talk) 13:17, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
@ Misdemenor: Thanks for rearranging the law section per above discussion. I will undo your change in the theology section, however. Your previous move was motivated by the disputed status of the Athari school, which was discussed by that name only in a couple of sources. Now that we've connected it to other terms, though, it's no longer the case. It features prominently in standard discussions of both classical and modern theology. I'm frankly puzzled by your reliance on the Theology article in the Princeton encyclopedia. Given your knowledge of the subject, I'm sure you realize that it gives a highly idiosyncratic account that doesn't seem to be shared by any other author, and not only in calling Ash'arism "traditionalist". It also restricts the term "kalam" to Mu'tazilism and its Shia descendants and calls Mu'tazilis "the most significant representatives of theology in Islamic history". It's WP:UNDUE to base the template on a source whose perspective is arguably too fringe to even mention it in an article alongside the standard view. Eperoton ( talk) 13:15, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
@ Misdemenor: Abrahamov's article requires close reading since he deliberately characterizes the terms "traditionalist" and "rationalist" in terms of substance and avoids mapping them to other labels. However, he certainly does not use "traditionalism" and "pure traditionism" the way you suggest. He defines "pure traditionalism" through rejection of qiyas, which is accepted by most Hanbalis, and he uses a quote from Ibn Taymiyya to summarize traditionalist (not just "pure traditionalist") attitude towards rational arguments. Needless to say, Ibn Taymiyya is not a spokesman for Ash'arism. This use of "traditionalist" is also supported by other major RSs, as is its prominence and classification as Sunni:
What was the Arabic for “theology”? The obvious answer is kalām, or speech, which represents well the scope of early theology, [...] This was taken in two directions, the first allowing the use of reason, as in the case of the followers of Shāfi‘ī and Abū Hanīfa, and the second based on a literal reading of hadith, as with the supporters of Ibn Hanbal. [...] In Western accounts these two groups of thinkers are sometimes called Rationalists and Traditionalists (terms commended by Abrahamov and Makdisi, among others), but these labels are not always helpful. It is not that some scholars known as Traditionalists favoured irrationality, or that “Rationalists” did not use the hadith; it was more a matter of emphasis than a difference in kind. Oliver Leaman. The Cambridge Companion to Classical Islamic Theology (p. 81)
Makdisi in particular argued that Ḥanbalism had a disproportionate impact on the development of Islamic theology because it was the only Sunnī law school to maintain a consistently traditionalist theological voice. For Makdisi, the Ḥanbalīs were the ‘spearhead’ of a wider traditionalist movement in medieval Islam against the rationalism of Muʿtazilī and Ashʿarite Kalām (Makdisi 1962–3; 1981). Aspects of Makdisi’s narrative require modification, especially as some leading Ḥanbalīs of the fifth/eleventh and sixth/twelfth centuries were more rationalist than earlier thought, but the main thrust of his argument still stands. It may be added that Ḥanbalī theology has also had a disproportionate impact on modern Islamic theology. Jon Hoover. Ḥanbalī Theology. The Oxford Handbook of Islamic Theology
Ahmad ibn Hanbal was regarded as the champion of a traditionism that sought to minimise the use of reason and to seek religious unity by applying literalist explanations. In his confrontation with Mu‘tazilism, however, Ibn Hanbal had been obliged to take a clear stand on all the issues at stake, and hence was publicly associated with a kind of Sunnī traditionist creed. [...] Thus, by the mid-tenth century, the Muslim world had begun to settle on several defining and immensely enduring doctrinal alignments that have not been substantially altered since: the Ash‘arī, Māturīdī and Hanbalī Sunnīs, two varieties of Mu‘tazilism among the Twelver and the Zaydī Shī‘a, the Neoplatonism of many Ismā‘īlī Shī‘a, and the Ibāī doctrines among the residual Khārijites. Khalid Blankinship, The early creed. The Cambridge Companion to Classical Islamic Theology (p. 51).
I can find more RSs to that effect, since this is standard usage, but I don't see the need, since so far you've only produced on RS that contradicts it. I'm pretty sure you're misreading the Amman Message on its attitude towards traditionalist/Hanbali theology, but I also don't see a need to go into it here. The preference for academic sources on matters of fact, classification, and prominence is based on WP:RS. If you want to try convincing other editors to base it on what some religious groups say about other religious groups, you're welcome to open an RFC or take it to another forum. I think you probably realize yourself that you won't have much luck with that. Eperoton ( talk) 13:23, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
( edit conflict):::As you can see on my talk page, I told Misdemenor " As there's no deadline I probably would see how the discussion goes, but that's me" - looking at the above discussion it's clear that Misdemonor needs consensus to make these changes, and apparently lacks it. Doug Weller talk 19:37, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
It states that Zahiri is neither extint/inactive nor defunct. It still exists. 212.253.113.96 ( talk) 00:19, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
212.253.113.96 ( talk) 19:46, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Following a recent notice of subtle POV pushing attempts harking back to 2014, I've separated Ahl-i Hadith from Salafism. More details are on Talk:Ahl-i Hadith, but basically this is based on reliable sources, mostly which clarify that the conflation of the two movements is primarily a view of their theological opponents, but analysts note that the two movements are historically distinct. MezzoMezzo ( talk) 03:39, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
Mu'tazila and Murji'ah are NOT members of the Sunni ("orthodox") Muslim majority group i.e., Ahl al-Sunnah wa al-Jama'ah. According to Taj al-Din al-Subki, in his Sharh Mukhtasar Ibn al-Hajib:( Source)
“ | Ahl al-Sunnah wa al-Jama'ah are three groups, as ascertained by copious study of all of the sources (istiqrā’):
|
” |
The same definition has been used by other scholars, such as: ( Source)
As well as Abdallah ibn Alawi al-Haddad, Abu 'Amr al-Dani, Abu Mansur 'Abd al-Qahir al-Baghdadi, Abu al-Muzaffar al-Isfrayini (d. 471/1078–9), Abu Ishaq al-Shirazi, Jalal al-Din al-Dawani, and Ahmad ibn Ajiba. ( Source)
Based on the decisions of the 2016 international conference on Sunni Islam in Grozny regarding the distinguishing features of Ahl as-Sunnah wa al-Jama'ah compared to the misguided people: the indispensable distinguishing features of Ahl as-Sunnah wa al-Jama'ah are three interconnected foundations: Iman, Islam and Ihsan, which is why, in terms of Iman, Ahl as-Sunnah wa al-Jama'ah are Ash'aris and Maturidis, in terms of obedience to Allah they are followers of one of the four madhabs: the Hanafi, the Maliki, the Shafi'i and the Hanbali, and in terms of Ihsan they are Sunni Muslims, which means those who follow the path of moral self-improvement shown by great teachers such as the Sufi imams: Abu al-Qasim al-Junayd al-Baghdadi, 'Abd al-Qadir al-Gilani, Baha' al-Din Naqshband and other righteous mentors.
According to these reliable sources, Mu'tazila and Murji'ah MUST be removed, because the template is about Sunni Islam. Sufis MUST be added to the template, because Sufism is rooted in Sunni Islam.
If there are no objections, I will apply these suggestions soon.-- TheEagle107 ( talk) 23:16, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
@ 2402:8100:24c9:4394:2b8c:b977:b5f8:abde: Regarding your edit here. Well, there are several sources ' above' and a fair number of scholars have confirmed this. For example, Murtada al-Zabidi (d. 1205/1791) stated that Ahl al-Sunna wa al-Jama'a consists of ahl hadith (followers of hadith), Sufis, Ash'aris and Maturidis. [1] And this is generally accepted by the mainstream of Muslims, including the Shi'is themselves! According to Markaz al-Abhath al-'Aqa'idiyya ( Arabic: مركز الأبحاث العقائدية, lit. 'Theological Research Center') which is a Shi'i religious center (under the supervision of the office of 'Ali al-Husayni al-Sistani) stated that: the vast majority of Sufis throughout history are Sunnis. [2]-- TheEagle107 ( talk) 07:57, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Sunni Islam template. |
|
Archives: 1 |
Islam: Sunni Islam Template‑class | ||||||||||
|
The Arabic version of this template includes the Muslim Brotherhood as a movement. There is a good point to be made in that the MB is both an organization and an ideology. Additionally, we also have the Tablighi Jamaat, Murabitun World Movement and Ansar as-Sunnah - where do they fit in? Organizations or movements? And is there a way to work them in without causing the template to become bloated? MezzoMezzo ( talk) 03:34, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
Is it wiki policy to use other Wikipedia articles as a reference guide for things concerning encyclopaedic entries on Wikipedia? Can you provide peer-reviewed English language sources please? F.Tromble ( talk) 10:40, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
Template looks really dull comparing to other islamic and religious templates. Needs to be re-worked on. elmasmelih (used to be KazekageTR) 12:04, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
When you click view button at the bottom it jumps to Template:Shia Islam... in addition template is incorrect collapsible option was used in some articles due to space limitations in those pages hence | bodyclass = collapsible is necessary, i.e hide/show -option
Sufi is not a school of divinity. Why does this keep getting added when there is no proof that it is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.205.198.201 ( talk) 18:49, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
It was such an obvious error I didn't see why there was a need for a lengthy discussion. You'll note that none of the 4 individuals who accused me of vandalism or claimed that there were "many references" for there view will come here with a single evidence to back up there claim. The main reason for this is that here isn't any evidence. Anyway, Sufi is not a school of theology and should not be listed there. I don't believe it fits in with any of the existing sections. I did consider "movements", however this doesn't feel right either as there is overlap with other Sufi movements such as Barelvi. Another option would be to put a new section entitled "Sufi orders" and then list the main orders such as Qadiri, Chishty etc... a bit like the Sunni schools of law section. This should be acceptable as Sufism is part of Sunni Islam. As for Ahl Hadith, this is clearly a movement and should be moved there. By the way, my IP address has changed again. Apparently I am meant to inform others of this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.205.251.225 ( talk) 08:53, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
As expected, none of those who accused me of vandalism or PoV pushing have contributed to this discussion. The main reason is that they have no evidence whatsoever that Sufism is a school of theology. The "many references" they claim do not exist. I will therefore make the change that should have never have been reversed in the first place. Sigh.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.205.251.37 ( talk) 09:09, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
{{u|Username}} ~~~~
. For this to work, you'll need to combine a link to the user with your signature (four tildes) in the same edit. Alternatively, leave a message at their user talk pages. -
HyperGaruda (
talk) 23:06, 26 February 2016 (UTC)This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Sufi is not a school of divinity. Why does this keep getting added when there is no proof that it is. Please remove.
213.205.198.201 ( talk) 18:53, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
{{
edit protected}}
template.
clpo13(
talk) 20:36, 20 February 2016 (UTC)"Among the leading factors behind the demise of kalam was an anti-theological school of thought that staunchly opposed the classical theological enterprise as it responded to a range of sociopolitical concerns and conflicts, principally from the seventh to tenth centuries (CE). This is the historical tradition that stressed strict adherence to the literal outward (zahir) meanings of the sacred texts, known as the Athariyya creedal school. For the Atharis, human reason can neither be trusted nor relied upon in matters of religion, thus making theology a sinful and dangerous exercise in human arrogance. Following the demise of kalam, this distinctly anti-theological strain of Islamic thought, which once struggled with the intellectual argumentation of the classical Sunni theologians, flourished and contributed in important ways to the reformulation of Islamic political theory in the twentieth century, now known as “Islamism.”" [1] Doug Weller talk 08:15, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
There has been a long-running dispute relating to the status of the Zahiri school. It seems to have arrived at a consensus with respect to the Zahiri article, but we still have a disagreement about presentation in this template. There are two relevant areas of controversy:
The question is how the Sunni Islam template should be designed in view of the above. Here are the options which have been floated:
Thoughts? Eperoton ( talk) 03:23, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
@ MezzoMezzo, CounterTime, Rubbish computer, John Carter, and Misdemenor: Although the votes above seem like consensus at a glance, there is disagreement over what to call the second sub-section (3 votes for "other" vs. 2 votes for "inactive"). The next step would be to try reaching a consensus on these alternatives. Eperoton ( talk) 14:17, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
The RfC has served its purpose in attracting additional participants and revealing their choices. If we can't reach consensus for change, the template would default to its current state. Since it's farther from the "inactive" option than it is from "other", I would expect that the editors arguing for the former would take particular interest in consensus-building. Eperoton ( talk) 13:17, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
@ Misdemenor: Thanks for rearranging the law section per above discussion. I will undo your change in the theology section, however. Your previous move was motivated by the disputed status of the Athari school, which was discussed by that name only in a couple of sources. Now that we've connected it to other terms, though, it's no longer the case. It features prominently in standard discussions of both classical and modern theology. I'm frankly puzzled by your reliance on the Theology article in the Princeton encyclopedia. Given your knowledge of the subject, I'm sure you realize that it gives a highly idiosyncratic account that doesn't seem to be shared by any other author, and not only in calling Ash'arism "traditionalist". It also restricts the term "kalam" to Mu'tazilism and its Shia descendants and calls Mu'tazilis "the most significant representatives of theology in Islamic history". It's WP:UNDUE to base the template on a source whose perspective is arguably too fringe to even mention it in an article alongside the standard view. Eperoton ( talk) 13:15, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
@ Misdemenor: Abrahamov's article requires close reading since he deliberately characterizes the terms "traditionalist" and "rationalist" in terms of substance and avoids mapping them to other labels. However, he certainly does not use "traditionalism" and "pure traditionism" the way you suggest. He defines "pure traditionalism" through rejection of qiyas, which is accepted by most Hanbalis, and he uses a quote from Ibn Taymiyya to summarize traditionalist (not just "pure traditionalist") attitude towards rational arguments. Needless to say, Ibn Taymiyya is not a spokesman for Ash'arism. This use of "traditionalist" is also supported by other major RSs, as is its prominence and classification as Sunni:
What was the Arabic for “theology”? The obvious answer is kalām, or speech, which represents well the scope of early theology, [...] This was taken in two directions, the first allowing the use of reason, as in the case of the followers of Shāfi‘ī and Abū Hanīfa, and the second based on a literal reading of hadith, as with the supporters of Ibn Hanbal. [...] In Western accounts these two groups of thinkers are sometimes called Rationalists and Traditionalists (terms commended by Abrahamov and Makdisi, among others), but these labels are not always helpful. It is not that some scholars known as Traditionalists favoured irrationality, or that “Rationalists” did not use the hadith; it was more a matter of emphasis than a difference in kind. Oliver Leaman. The Cambridge Companion to Classical Islamic Theology (p. 81)
Makdisi in particular argued that Ḥanbalism had a disproportionate impact on the development of Islamic theology because it was the only Sunnī law school to maintain a consistently traditionalist theological voice. For Makdisi, the Ḥanbalīs were the ‘spearhead’ of a wider traditionalist movement in medieval Islam against the rationalism of Muʿtazilī and Ashʿarite Kalām (Makdisi 1962–3; 1981). Aspects of Makdisi’s narrative require modification, especially as some leading Ḥanbalīs of the fifth/eleventh and sixth/twelfth centuries were more rationalist than earlier thought, but the main thrust of his argument still stands. It may be added that Ḥanbalī theology has also had a disproportionate impact on modern Islamic theology. Jon Hoover. Ḥanbalī Theology. The Oxford Handbook of Islamic Theology
Ahmad ibn Hanbal was regarded as the champion of a traditionism that sought to minimise the use of reason and to seek religious unity by applying literalist explanations. In his confrontation with Mu‘tazilism, however, Ibn Hanbal had been obliged to take a clear stand on all the issues at stake, and hence was publicly associated with a kind of Sunnī traditionist creed. [...] Thus, by the mid-tenth century, the Muslim world had begun to settle on several defining and immensely enduring doctrinal alignments that have not been substantially altered since: the Ash‘arī, Māturīdī and Hanbalī Sunnīs, two varieties of Mu‘tazilism among the Twelver and the Zaydī Shī‘a, the Neoplatonism of many Ismā‘īlī Shī‘a, and the Ibāī doctrines among the residual Khārijites. Khalid Blankinship, The early creed. The Cambridge Companion to Classical Islamic Theology (p. 51).
I can find more RSs to that effect, since this is standard usage, but I don't see the need, since so far you've only produced on RS that contradicts it. I'm pretty sure you're misreading the Amman Message on its attitude towards traditionalist/Hanbali theology, but I also don't see a need to go into it here. The preference for academic sources on matters of fact, classification, and prominence is based on WP:RS. If you want to try convincing other editors to base it on what some religious groups say about other religious groups, you're welcome to open an RFC or take it to another forum. I think you probably realize yourself that you won't have much luck with that. Eperoton ( talk) 13:23, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
( edit conflict):::As you can see on my talk page, I told Misdemenor " As there's no deadline I probably would see how the discussion goes, but that's me" - looking at the above discussion it's clear that Misdemonor needs consensus to make these changes, and apparently lacks it. Doug Weller talk 19:37, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
It states that Zahiri is neither extint/inactive nor defunct. It still exists. 212.253.113.96 ( talk) 00:19, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
212.253.113.96 ( talk) 19:46, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Following a recent notice of subtle POV pushing attempts harking back to 2014, I've separated Ahl-i Hadith from Salafism. More details are on Talk:Ahl-i Hadith, but basically this is based on reliable sources, mostly which clarify that the conflation of the two movements is primarily a view of their theological opponents, but analysts note that the two movements are historically distinct. MezzoMezzo ( talk) 03:39, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
Mu'tazila and Murji'ah are NOT members of the Sunni ("orthodox") Muslim majority group i.e., Ahl al-Sunnah wa al-Jama'ah. According to Taj al-Din al-Subki, in his Sharh Mukhtasar Ibn al-Hajib:( Source)
“ | Ahl al-Sunnah wa al-Jama'ah are three groups, as ascertained by copious study of all of the sources (istiqrā’):
|
” |
The same definition has been used by other scholars, such as: ( Source)
As well as Abdallah ibn Alawi al-Haddad, Abu 'Amr al-Dani, Abu Mansur 'Abd al-Qahir al-Baghdadi, Abu al-Muzaffar al-Isfrayini (d. 471/1078–9), Abu Ishaq al-Shirazi, Jalal al-Din al-Dawani, and Ahmad ibn Ajiba. ( Source)
Based on the decisions of the 2016 international conference on Sunni Islam in Grozny regarding the distinguishing features of Ahl as-Sunnah wa al-Jama'ah compared to the misguided people: the indispensable distinguishing features of Ahl as-Sunnah wa al-Jama'ah are three interconnected foundations: Iman, Islam and Ihsan, which is why, in terms of Iman, Ahl as-Sunnah wa al-Jama'ah are Ash'aris and Maturidis, in terms of obedience to Allah they are followers of one of the four madhabs: the Hanafi, the Maliki, the Shafi'i and the Hanbali, and in terms of Ihsan they are Sunni Muslims, which means those who follow the path of moral self-improvement shown by great teachers such as the Sufi imams: Abu al-Qasim al-Junayd al-Baghdadi, 'Abd al-Qadir al-Gilani, Baha' al-Din Naqshband and other righteous mentors.
According to these reliable sources, Mu'tazila and Murji'ah MUST be removed, because the template is about Sunni Islam. Sufis MUST be added to the template, because Sufism is rooted in Sunni Islam.
If there are no objections, I will apply these suggestions soon.-- TheEagle107 ( talk) 23:16, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
@ 2402:8100:24c9:4394:2b8c:b977:b5f8:abde: Regarding your edit here. Well, there are several sources ' above' and a fair number of scholars have confirmed this. For example, Murtada al-Zabidi (d. 1205/1791) stated that Ahl al-Sunna wa al-Jama'a consists of ahl hadith (followers of hadith), Sufis, Ash'aris and Maturidis. [1] And this is generally accepted by the mainstream of Muslims, including the Shi'is themselves! According to Markaz al-Abhath al-'Aqa'idiyya ( Arabic: مركز الأبحاث العقائدية, lit. 'Theological Research Center') which is a Shi'i religious center (under the supervision of the office of 'Ali al-Husayni al-Sistani) stated that: the vast majority of Sufis throughout history are Sunnis. [2]-- TheEagle107 ( talk) 07:57, 9 March 2024 (UTC)