Higher education Template‑class | |||||||
|
New York City Template‑class | |||||||
|
I kind of liked this box better I allows for further expansion into the New York Metro region.
annandale-on-hudson is not in nyc... 69.253.159.242
I restored the entry for The King's College to the template. It is a liberal arts college, not (as User:Shoreranger claimed) a "specialized" or vocational school. Even if it were, it would belong in the section for such schools, rather than deleted entirely.
I deleted the entry for Cardozo Law School as it is a part of Yeshiva University. The medicine/law section only lists those schools that are standalone and are not part of a larger school listed elsewhere in the template.
I did not restore the entry for Bard. I originally put it into the template because of the Bard Graduate Center in NYC, but agree that it is a judgment call (as well as Touro and LIU, which are similar cases). YLee ( talk) 10:54, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
I obviously haven't been as involved in this discussion and may have missed something, but the most recent comments make me wonder if Shoreranger is confused as to the meaning of "liberal arts". It's not a matter of "liberalism" but simply a broad range of academic study (as in, not vocational training -- not a conservatory, law school, nursing school, or any other specialised degree). Therefore a school can be "Christian" and "liberal arts" as long as it has certain religious requirements like Chapel attendance (or even a purely nominal association) with a "liberal" (that is to say, diverse) educational curriculum. TKC is most certainly "conservative" from everything I've ever heard about it, but I don't necessarily equate Christianity with conservatism (especially since I espouse one value set and not the other) even though I know it's fairly common to do so. Even if my impression here is wrong, it's not really relevant either way, as liberal arts has nothing to do with religious affiliation.
I think it's fair to say that, while their marketing (and I aver that it is marketing) might try to suggest otherwise, TKC is teaching "liberal arts" with a core curriculum of politics, philosophy, and economics: a fairly liberal (diverse) range IMHO. See liberal arts for the trivium of grammar, rhetoric, and logic or the quadrivium of geometry, arithmetic, music, and astronomy -- few liberal arts colleges literally use this specific curriculum today, and TKC is definitely not offering a "professional, vocational, or technical curriculum." I also know that there are plenty of "comprehensive colleges", or just four-year schools in general, that are simply called liberal arts colleges because the definition of a liberal arts college has grown so broad. Similarly "university" doesn't even mean "research institution" here in the US as it ought to, either, and in spite my disagreeement with its use for some insitutions, standard usage doesn't require a heavy research component and most of the country doesn't require the doctoral standards that a state like Massachusetts does. It's really a matter of "correct" v. colloquial usage, and the colloquial often wins out on Wikipedia (if you see WP:UNIGUIDE on article naming, for example, it's not a matter of what's official, but what's most often used). They're still not vocational schools, and not technically liberal arts, but closer to the latter.
More to the point, however, if you take a look at the Carnegie Classification for TKC as well as Barnard, Boricua, Manhattan, Marymount Manhattan, Mercy, Metropolitan, Mount Saint Vincent, Saint Francis, Saint Joseph's, and Wagner (the Liberal Arts Colleges according to this template), you might find 2 or 3 that are classified as "liberal arts". A few others aren't classified as "liberal arts" but classified as "Bachelor's: Arts & Sciences" just like TKC. -- Aepoutre ( talk) 18:24, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
I restored the entry for The King's College to the template. It is a liberal arts college, not (as User:Shoreranger claimed) a "specialized" or vocational school. Even if it were, it would belong in the section for such schools, rather than deleted entirely.
I deleted the entry for Cardozo Law School as it is a part of Yeshiva University. The medicine/law section only lists those schools that are standalone and are not part of a larger school listed elsewhere in the template.
I did not restore the entry for Bard. I originally put it into the template because of the Bard Graduate Center in NYC, but agree that it is a judgment call (as well as Touro and LIU, which are similar cases). YLee ( talk) 10:54, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
I obviously haven't been as involved in this discussion and may have missed something, but the most recent comments make me wonder if Shoreranger is confused as to the meaning of "liberal arts". It's not a matter of "liberalism" but simply a broad range of academic study (as in, not vocational training -- not a conservatory, law school, nursing school, or any other specialised degree). Therefore a school can be "Christian" and "liberal arts" as long as it has certain religious requirements like Chapel attendance (or even a purely nominal association) with a "liberal" (that is to say, diverse) educational curriculum. TKC is most certainly "conservative" from everything I've ever heard about it, but I don't necessarily equate Christianity with conservatism (especially since I espouse one value set and not the other) even though I know it's fairly common to do so. Even if my impression here is wrong, it's not really relevant either way, as liberal arts has nothing to do with religious affiliation.
I think it's fair to say that, while their marketing (and I aver that it is marketing) might try to suggest otherwise, TKC is teaching "liberal arts" with a core curriculum of politics, philosophy, and economics: a fairly liberal (diverse) range IMHO. See liberal arts for the trivium of grammar, rhetoric, and logic or the quadrivium of geometry, arithmetic, music, and astronomy -- few liberal arts colleges literally use this specific curriculum today, and TKC is definitely not offering a "professional, vocational, or technical curriculum." I also know that there are plenty of "comprehensive colleges", or just four-year schools in general, that are simply called liberal arts colleges because the definition of a liberal arts college has grown so broad. Similarly "university" doesn't even mean "research institution" here in the US as it ought to, either, and in spite my disagreeement with its use for some insitutions, standard usage doesn't require a heavy research component and most of the country doesn't require the doctoral standards that a state like Massachusetts does. It's really a matter of "correct" v. colloquial usage, and the colloquial often wins out on Wikipedia (if you see WP:UNIGUIDE on article naming, for example, it's not a matter of what's official, but what's most often used). They're still not vocational schools, and not technically liberal arts, but closer to the latter.
More to the point, however, if you take a look at the Carnegie Classification for TKC as well as Barnard, Boricua, Manhattan, Marymount Manhattan, Mercy, Metropolitan, Mount Saint Vincent, Saint Francis, Saint Joseph's, and Wagner (the Liberal Arts Colleges according to this template), you might find 2 or 3 that are classified as "liberal arts". A few others aren't classified as "liberal arts" but classified as "Bachelor's: Arts & Sciences" just like TKC. -- Aepoutre ( talk) 18:24, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
The template should not contain external links to other website, as that is not the purpose of Wikipedia. There should only be links to other articles, and if the school is not notable to have its own article, then it is not notable enough to be included in the template. External links should generally be avoided in most cases, according to WP:EL. Also, NYU-Poly should be included in the list of schools. Although it merged with NYU, it is still its own school with its own website, its own campus, its own curricula, etc. NYU-Poly isn't so much a school within NYU (like the New York University College of Nursing), but its rather another school that is a partner with NYU and uses its name. – Dream out loud ( talk) 20:25, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
So is it agreed that something like "Junior colleges", "Colleges", and "Universities and graduate institutions" is acceptable? Junior college is generally a term for two-year school, of course, colleges are generally four-year, perhaps with some master's offerings, and universities and graduate institutions have a heavy graduate component. Unfortunately, I'd need to bone up on NYC schools quite extensively to distinguish between them all. Do you, Shoreranger, or someone else, volunteer to take up this gauntlet if/when it's been agreed upon? -- Aepoutre ( talk) 20:50, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
Higher education Template‑class | |||||||
|
New York City Template‑class | |||||||
|
I kind of liked this box better I allows for further expansion into the New York Metro region.
annandale-on-hudson is not in nyc... 69.253.159.242
I restored the entry for The King's College to the template. It is a liberal arts college, not (as User:Shoreranger claimed) a "specialized" or vocational school. Even if it were, it would belong in the section for such schools, rather than deleted entirely.
I deleted the entry for Cardozo Law School as it is a part of Yeshiva University. The medicine/law section only lists those schools that are standalone and are not part of a larger school listed elsewhere in the template.
I did not restore the entry for Bard. I originally put it into the template because of the Bard Graduate Center in NYC, but agree that it is a judgment call (as well as Touro and LIU, which are similar cases). YLee ( talk) 10:54, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
I obviously haven't been as involved in this discussion and may have missed something, but the most recent comments make me wonder if Shoreranger is confused as to the meaning of "liberal arts". It's not a matter of "liberalism" but simply a broad range of academic study (as in, not vocational training -- not a conservatory, law school, nursing school, or any other specialised degree). Therefore a school can be "Christian" and "liberal arts" as long as it has certain religious requirements like Chapel attendance (or even a purely nominal association) with a "liberal" (that is to say, diverse) educational curriculum. TKC is most certainly "conservative" from everything I've ever heard about it, but I don't necessarily equate Christianity with conservatism (especially since I espouse one value set and not the other) even though I know it's fairly common to do so. Even if my impression here is wrong, it's not really relevant either way, as liberal arts has nothing to do with religious affiliation.
I think it's fair to say that, while their marketing (and I aver that it is marketing) might try to suggest otherwise, TKC is teaching "liberal arts" with a core curriculum of politics, philosophy, and economics: a fairly liberal (diverse) range IMHO. See liberal arts for the trivium of grammar, rhetoric, and logic or the quadrivium of geometry, arithmetic, music, and astronomy -- few liberal arts colleges literally use this specific curriculum today, and TKC is definitely not offering a "professional, vocational, or technical curriculum." I also know that there are plenty of "comprehensive colleges", or just four-year schools in general, that are simply called liberal arts colleges because the definition of a liberal arts college has grown so broad. Similarly "university" doesn't even mean "research institution" here in the US as it ought to, either, and in spite my disagreeement with its use for some insitutions, standard usage doesn't require a heavy research component and most of the country doesn't require the doctoral standards that a state like Massachusetts does. It's really a matter of "correct" v. colloquial usage, and the colloquial often wins out on Wikipedia (if you see WP:UNIGUIDE on article naming, for example, it's not a matter of what's official, but what's most often used). They're still not vocational schools, and not technically liberal arts, but closer to the latter.
More to the point, however, if you take a look at the Carnegie Classification for TKC as well as Barnard, Boricua, Manhattan, Marymount Manhattan, Mercy, Metropolitan, Mount Saint Vincent, Saint Francis, Saint Joseph's, and Wagner (the Liberal Arts Colleges according to this template), you might find 2 or 3 that are classified as "liberal arts". A few others aren't classified as "liberal arts" but classified as "Bachelor's: Arts & Sciences" just like TKC. -- Aepoutre ( talk) 18:24, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
I restored the entry for The King's College to the template. It is a liberal arts college, not (as User:Shoreranger claimed) a "specialized" or vocational school. Even if it were, it would belong in the section for such schools, rather than deleted entirely.
I deleted the entry for Cardozo Law School as it is a part of Yeshiva University. The medicine/law section only lists those schools that are standalone and are not part of a larger school listed elsewhere in the template.
I did not restore the entry for Bard. I originally put it into the template because of the Bard Graduate Center in NYC, but agree that it is a judgment call (as well as Touro and LIU, which are similar cases). YLee ( talk) 10:54, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
I obviously haven't been as involved in this discussion and may have missed something, but the most recent comments make me wonder if Shoreranger is confused as to the meaning of "liberal arts". It's not a matter of "liberalism" but simply a broad range of academic study (as in, not vocational training -- not a conservatory, law school, nursing school, or any other specialised degree). Therefore a school can be "Christian" and "liberal arts" as long as it has certain religious requirements like Chapel attendance (or even a purely nominal association) with a "liberal" (that is to say, diverse) educational curriculum. TKC is most certainly "conservative" from everything I've ever heard about it, but I don't necessarily equate Christianity with conservatism (especially since I espouse one value set and not the other) even though I know it's fairly common to do so. Even if my impression here is wrong, it's not really relevant either way, as liberal arts has nothing to do with religious affiliation.
I think it's fair to say that, while their marketing (and I aver that it is marketing) might try to suggest otherwise, TKC is teaching "liberal arts" with a core curriculum of politics, philosophy, and economics: a fairly liberal (diverse) range IMHO. See liberal arts for the trivium of grammar, rhetoric, and logic or the quadrivium of geometry, arithmetic, music, and astronomy -- few liberal arts colleges literally use this specific curriculum today, and TKC is definitely not offering a "professional, vocational, or technical curriculum." I also know that there are plenty of "comprehensive colleges", or just four-year schools in general, that are simply called liberal arts colleges because the definition of a liberal arts college has grown so broad. Similarly "university" doesn't even mean "research institution" here in the US as it ought to, either, and in spite my disagreeement with its use for some insitutions, standard usage doesn't require a heavy research component and most of the country doesn't require the doctoral standards that a state like Massachusetts does. It's really a matter of "correct" v. colloquial usage, and the colloquial often wins out on Wikipedia (if you see WP:UNIGUIDE on article naming, for example, it's not a matter of what's official, but what's most often used). They're still not vocational schools, and not technically liberal arts, but closer to the latter.
More to the point, however, if you take a look at the Carnegie Classification for TKC as well as Barnard, Boricua, Manhattan, Marymount Manhattan, Mercy, Metropolitan, Mount Saint Vincent, Saint Francis, Saint Joseph's, and Wagner (the Liberal Arts Colleges according to this template), you might find 2 or 3 that are classified as "liberal arts". A few others aren't classified as "liberal arts" but classified as "Bachelor's: Arts & Sciences" just like TKC. -- Aepoutre ( talk) 18:24, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
The template should not contain external links to other website, as that is not the purpose of Wikipedia. There should only be links to other articles, and if the school is not notable to have its own article, then it is not notable enough to be included in the template. External links should generally be avoided in most cases, according to WP:EL. Also, NYU-Poly should be included in the list of schools. Although it merged with NYU, it is still its own school with its own website, its own campus, its own curricula, etc. NYU-Poly isn't so much a school within NYU (like the New York University College of Nursing), but its rather another school that is a partner with NYU and uses its name. – Dream out loud ( talk) 20:25, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
So is it agreed that something like "Junior colleges", "Colleges", and "Universities and graduate institutions" is acceptable? Junior college is generally a term for two-year school, of course, colleges are generally four-year, perhaps with some master's offerings, and universities and graduate institutions have a heavy graduate component. Unfortunately, I'd need to bone up on NYC schools quite extensively to distinguish between them all. Do you, Shoreranger, or someone else, volunteer to take up this gauntlet if/when it's been agreed upon? -- Aepoutre ( talk) 20:50, 19 February 2009 (UTC)