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The leadership section begins with top historic figures (Hillel, Shammai, Yehudah haNasi, Saadia Gaon and ends, bizarrely, with Michael Lerner. Whatever his significance, Michael Lerner is dwarfed by such unlisted leaders as David Saperstein or Avi Weiss, to name just two. — Anomalocaris ( talk) 19:26, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
Still messed up. Many of the Rabbis were very important, (like RASHI), but weren't exactly the leaders of their respective strains of Judaism in their time. Furthermore, many more important leaders are left out. I'm patching it up now. Yserbius ( talk) 04:29, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
This template is much too long. Can we break it into several different templates or otherwise shorten it? tahc chat 18:47, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
( talk) 19:26, 24.01.2015 2013 (UTC) MShabazz I have added very important things Related to Jews and Judaism, and edited the Template. I have worked really hard for it. To me it's seems very relevant and Necessary to add all of these, they provide a much broader vision on this vast subject. Perhaps it is necessary to divide it into 2 - one Jews and the other Judaism. Moreover, it seems to me that you are stalking me and cancel everything that i Writing, I can not feel that you are harassing me, please stop it. There was no reason to cancel half the things you undid to me, it's ridiculous and alienating. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DaoXan 14:06, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
Should the History section be the first section of the template instead of the 14th? That feels right to me, but I work from a sense of history so that viewpoint comes from within that particular mix. So throwing it out there as an idea and discussion point. Randy Kryn 1:37, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
Several ethnic groups were removed recently, as usual for the removing editor without any prior discussion, on the flimsy basis that the template is not a [[History of Jews in ..]] template. That is however not a reason to not mention whole ethnic groups of Jews. Especially since for example Kurdish Jews could easily be replaced by Kurdish Jews, and likely others as well. Debresser ( talk) 04:25, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
I'm thinking of adding more titles for current and historic communal roles, for example: lehrer (Jewish educator) and firzogerin (precentress). Aharon ( talk) 00:57, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
The template is ridiculously large. Navbox for such a vast subject should be reserved for basic topics. I reworked its structure, added very notable omissions and removed all those unnecessary articles that are linked in the articles included in the new version:
-- Triggerhippie4 ( talk) 01:46, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
@ Debresser: concerning my edit. This template is supposed to summarize whole Jewry through all of its history and aspects, so it should be reviewed for what is included here, otherwise it will overgrow. I removed the link to History of the Jews in the Middle Ages because it's a redirect to history of European Jews only. I also removed 2 articles about YIVO and 3 articles about the Holocaust organizations because WP:UNDUE. I removed 3 articles about relations with separate Christian streams because there is already a link to the article about relations with Christianity as a whole. I removed Hazzan – obvious. I also fixed redirects, piped links, did sorting and fixed the link to Book:Judaism. You reverted it all for no reason demanding that I must discuss it first. That's not how this works, WP:BOLD. You already have a long history of edit-warring for which you've been blocked many times, I'm asking you to self-revert. -- Triggerhippie4 ( talk) 14:01, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
I'm unhappy with this heading. Orthodox is not a "schism". deisenbe ( talk) 22:24, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
I don't think "movement" is the right word either. "Movement" implies a goal, a destination. How about "Varities", as in "Varieties of Judaism"? Or "Types". "Branches" is another possibility deisenbe ( talk) 10:11, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
I think "Movements" is the word that best describes the articles listed there, and "Branches" the second best. I think "Schisms" is probably the least accurate term. Jayjg (talk) 20:05, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
This should be based on sources, rather than our own opinion, so let's see what they say. First, let's look at synonyms given by thesaurus.com for some of the words listed in the discussion so far (only "close" synonyms (the red ones) shown below):
From that list, schism doesn't feel like a good fit here, for what we are trying to say.
Secondly, let's try some wild-card searches with fill-in-the-missing-word:
(Dropped irrelevant results and wikipedia results from consideration.) Based on the data, my preference is branches.
As a side note, Wikipedia seems to prefer movements or denominations (see Jewish religious movements), and that article refers to Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform as the "main branches" of it, although in theory, per WP:WINARS we should not be influenced by it in our choices here. Mathglot ( talk) 21:22, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
Currently the Population wikilink of this template points to Jewish population by country which never mentions any of the ethnic groups in this template. It should rather point to Jewish ethnic divisions. This template DOES NOT list countries but ethnic groups. Why does it point to a census-oriented article?
Besides, there should be a way to link the ethnic groups with the different movements, too.
For instance, it is not immediately evident in this navbox that the Beta Israel (Ethiopian Jews) practice the Haymanot form.
George Rodney Maruri Game ( talk) 12:12, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
You may be looking for Template talk:Jews and Judaism sidebar.
This template does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The leadership section begins with top historic figures (Hillel, Shammai, Yehudah haNasi, Saadia Gaon and ends, bizarrely, with Michael Lerner. Whatever his significance, Michael Lerner is dwarfed by such unlisted leaders as David Saperstein or Avi Weiss, to name just two. — Anomalocaris ( talk) 19:26, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
Still messed up. Many of the Rabbis were very important, (like RASHI), but weren't exactly the leaders of their respective strains of Judaism in their time. Furthermore, many more important leaders are left out. I'm patching it up now. Yserbius ( talk) 04:29, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
This template is much too long. Can we break it into several different templates or otherwise shorten it? tahc chat 18:47, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
( talk) 19:26, 24.01.2015 2013 (UTC) MShabazz I have added very important things Related to Jews and Judaism, and edited the Template. I have worked really hard for it. To me it's seems very relevant and Necessary to add all of these, they provide a much broader vision on this vast subject. Perhaps it is necessary to divide it into 2 - one Jews and the other Judaism. Moreover, it seems to me that you are stalking me and cancel everything that i Writing, I can not feel that you are harassing me, please stop it. There was no reason to cancel half the things you undid to me, it's ridiculous and alienating. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DaoXan 14:06, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
Should the History section be the first section of the template instead of the 14th? That feels right to me, but I work from a sense of history so that viewpoint comes from within that particular mix. So throwing it out there as an idea and discussion point. Randy Kryn 1:37, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
Several ethnic groups were removed recently, as usual for the removing editor without any prior discussion, on the flimsy basis that the template is not a [[History of Jews in ..]] template. That is however not a reason to not mention whole ethnic groups of Jews. Especially since for example Kurdish Jews could easily be replaced by Kurdish Jews, and likely others as well. Debresser ( talk) 04:25, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
I'm thinking of adding more titles for current and historic communal roles, for example: lehrer (Jewish educator) and firzogerin (precentress). Aharon ( talk) 00:57, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
The template is ridiculously large. Navbox for such a vast subject should be reserved for basic topics. I reworked its structure, added very notable omissions and removed all those unnecessary articles that are linked in the articles included in the new version:
-- Triggerhippie4 ( talk) 01:46, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
@ Debresser: concerning my edit. This template is supposed to summarize whole Jewry through all of its history and aspects, so it should be reviewed for what is included here, otherwise it will overgrow. I removed the link to History of the Jews in the Middle Ages because it's a redirect to history of European Jews only. I also removed 2 articles about YIVO and 3 articles about the Holocaust organizations because WP:UNDUE. I removed 3 articles about relations with separate Christian streams because there is already a link to the article about relations with Christianity as a whole. I removed Hazzan – obvious. I also fixed redirects, piped links, did sorting and fixed the link to Book:Judaism. You reverted it all for no reason demanding that I must discuss it first. That's not how this works, WP:BOLD. You already have a long history of edit-warring for which you've been blocked many times, I'm asking you to self-revert. -- Triggerhippie4 ( talk) 14:01, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
I'm unhappy with this heading. Orthodox is not a "schism". deisenbe ( talk) 22:24, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
I don't think "movement" is the right word either. "Movement" implies a goal, a destination. How about "Varities", as in "Varieties of Judaism"? Or "Types". "Branches" is another possibility deisenbe ( talk) 10:11, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
I think "Movements" is the word that best describes the articles listed there, and "Branches" the second best. I think "Schisms" is probably the least accurate term. Jayjg (talk) 20:05, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
This should be based on sources, rather than our own opinion, so let's see what they say. First, let's look at synonyms given by thesaurus.com for some of the words listed in the discussion so far (only "close" synonyms (the red ones) shown below):
From that list, schism doesn't feel like a good fit here, for what we are trying to say.
Secondly, let's try some wild-card searches with fill-in-the-missing-word:
(Dropped irrelevant results and wikipedia results from consideration.) Based on the data, my preference is branches.
As a side note, Wikipedia seems to prefer movements or denominations (see Jewish religious movements), and that article refers to Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform as the "main branches" of it, although in theory, per WP:WINARS we should not be influenced by it in our choices here. Mathglot ( talk) 21:22, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
Currently the Population wikilink of this template points to Jewish population by country which never mentions any of the ethnic groups in this template. It should rather point to Jewish ethnic divisions. This template DOES NOT list countries but ethnic groups. Why does it point to a census-oriented article?
Besides, there should be a way to link the ethnic groups with the different movements, too.
For instance, it is not immediately evident in this navbox that the Beta Israel (Ethiopian Jews) practice the Haymanot form.
George Rodney Maruri Game ( talk) 12:12, 30 January 2022 (UTC)