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Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
The problem with this template is that it automatically categories the article in the general Surnames category, which is annoying when the surname is from a specific country/culture. This template needs to be altered so it doesn't automatically do this or an alternate template created that doesn't auto-categorizes (or this one shoudl have an option to categorize elsewhere). ∞ ΣɛÞ² ( τ| c) 08:28, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Why isn't a simple 'This page or section lists people with the same surname' sufficient? I might be missing something but it seems unnecessary to mention '...with the surname Xyz'. It also makes it necessary to pass a parameter for 'xyz (disambiguation)' pages, or when there multiple variants of the same name on a page. -- Fullstop ( talk) 22:38, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
I've been bold and added the disambiguation icon from {{ disambig}}, since these pages act like disambiguation pages and no internal links should point there. -- Ddxc ( talk) 16:02, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
User:Fullstop recently added a 'none' option available in order to accommodate a surname page addressing several variants of a surname. I will be reverting that change momentarily. I do think that Fullstop has a point that needs to be addressed; however, I do not think that 'none' is the right approach.
I would suggest one of three approaches
--User:Ceyockey ( talk to me) 00:45, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Following this confusion, I've folded nationality=, language=, nocat= into a comprehensive cat=, e.g. cat=<catname> or cat=none. The old nocat still exists but is no longer documented. -- Fullstop ( talk) 03:35, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
language=Italian
rather stating the whole category name: "I-ta-lian sur-names"?
16@r (
talk)
20:11, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
[[Category:{{#if:{{{cat|}}}|{{{cat|}}}|Surnames}}<nowiki>]]
[[Category:{{#if:{{{cat|}}}|{{#ifexist:Category:{{{cat}}} surnames|{{{cat}}} surnames|{{{cat}}}|}}|Surnames}}]]
Hallo, While working on Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting I came across Renyi, which had been given a {{ stub}} tag by the AlaiBot. I queried with the bot owner why this was, as it had a {{ surname}} tag (I was assuming then that this counted as one of the family of dab tags, as the page has exactly a dab format). Alai pointed out that the page had no categories. I see that the "surname" tag has a "nocat" parameter. Shouldn't the "surname" tag always give the article a category, so that people don't waste time trying to stub-sort it or allocate a category? Otherwise it's just going to get tagged as a stub again every month. PamD ( talk) 13:02, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
The discussion at Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation/Archive 27#Surname disambiguation and partial title matches has some discussion related to this template. Carcharoth ( talk) 14:09, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Bold change, after glancing at the instructions on two occasions and refusing to be distracted by enumerating the possible meanings of "link". This time, i put my finger on it. A link is:
I think Wikipedia:Manual of Style (links)#How to create links (lk'd by the accompanying tl) needs a 10-second tutorial on recognizing whether to modify target or piping (for first-time editors who believe "anyone can edit WP"), but that's a matter for another talk page. In place of
i'm putting
The total wording of the displayed tag is about 25% longer, but i think that's needed, to be clear without assuming that the distinction between target and piping will be understood.
The text this template creates is unnecessary. It's an extremely rare occurrence that an article will only have the last name of a person and will require correcting.-- brew crewer (yada, yada) 22:30, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
I'm trying to initiate some discussion regarding placement of this template on disambiguation pages at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (disambiguation pages)#surname and given name templates on dab pages. older ≠ wiser 13:05, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
{{
editprotected}}
— Preceding
unsigned comment added by
William Allen Simpson (
talk •
contribs)
Hi, could you please give some background/explanation to your request rather than just pasting the code you want applied? Cheers, — Martin ( MSGJ · talk) 07:55, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
See the denied request at
Wikipedia:Requests for page protection#Current requests for unprotection. Cydebot doesn't seem capable of finding and removing the old parameter categories after the
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2009 June 6#Category:Surnames by country, now red-linked. To do that, I'm adding temporary maintenance categories to collect those with nocat, cat=, language=, and nationality=; and then remove/replace by hand. (This should have been obvious from examination of the code diff.) After that, the parameters can be removed. This should take a week or so by hand.
--
William Allen Simpson (
talk)
09:25, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Nota Bene: The nocat parameter is only checked for parameter 1. This was done deliberately for script programming reasons. After all those are handled, Cat Scan will be used to detect those in parameter 2, and a different script will be used. Patience.
--
William Allen Simpson (
talk)
17:49, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Sorry for revert of recent possibly useful edit, but it deleted the usage of parameter "cat" which I was strongly advised to use quite recently.
If you have serious reasons to remove it, please edit all articles which use "surname|cat=" and insert the corresponding categories. - Altenmann >t 14:43, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
The problem is that historically it is difficult to figure out which exactly Slavic (or other non-Lithuanian) language was the origin. After more thought I suggest a reasonable combination would be category:Lithuanian-language surnames with sub- category:Surnames of Lithuanian-language origin. What do you think? By the way, what is your opinion about the category I introduced, Category:Given names of Greek language origin? I created it because I am thinking of merging various minuscule articles about given names, such as Helen, Elena, Helena, .... I did it, e.g., for Peter (first name)/ Piotr/ Pyotr. - Altenmann >t 17:04, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
Someone has added that this template should be on articles (as opposed to disambiguation pages?). Is that correct? Was that discussed? This seems quintissentially a disambiguation template (and is so categorized). Carlossuarez46 ( talk) 21:08, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
If an [{{fullurl:Special:WhatLinksHere/{{FULLPAGENAME}}|namespace=0}} internal link] ...
If an [{{fullurl:Special:WhatLinksHere/{{{page-title|{{FULLPAGENAME}}}}}|namespace=0}} internal link] ...
{{
editprotected}}
Change
This template should only be used in articles.
to
This template should only be used in [[Wikipedia:Main namespace|article (main) namespace]].
-- William Allen Simpson ( talk) 12:02, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
I'd go one step further and suggest:
This template should only be used in the [[Wikipedia:Main namespace|article (main namespace]]
— Deon talk 14:36, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
Unfortunately, the intervening suggestion was careless in typing – and in fixing the mistake, administrator making the change botched the closing parenthesis and dropped the full stop. The result is poor grammar and punctuation:
This template should only be used in the article (main namespace)
Change
in the [[Wikipedia:Main namespace|article (main namespace)]]
to
in the [[Wikipedia:Main namespace|article (main) namespace]].
-- William Allen Simpson ( talk) 11:33, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
According to this template, they are, and should therefore follow MOS:DP; but according to that MOS, surname pages are specifically excluded. If they don't need to follow MOS:DP, then specific guidance elsewhere on styling surname pages would be useful; if this guidance exists, I don't know where. Propaniac ( talk) 17:28, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
{{
editprotected}}
For
WP:ACCESSIBILITY to visually impaired readers, images that are purely decorative should not have links (see
WP:ALT #When to specify). Please implement this by adding "|link=
" to the obvious place in the decorative image as I
did to the sandbox. Thanks.
Eubulides (
talk)
16:52, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
Can somebody give this template the option to include more than one name? For example, articles that contain MacXXX and McXXX names? Or very similar spellings. This template doesn't stack too well, since there it leaves a huge gap. For example
McQueen (surname). See the big gap? Might as well have the two names in the same template. Whoops, there was no need for me to try and stack them, since we can add multiple names within the template!--
Brianann MacAmhlaidh (
talk)
07:25, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Could someone please bypass the piped redirect on the word "link" from Wikipedia:Linking to Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Linking? Thanks! — OwenBlacker ( Talk) 16:44, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
The problem with this template is that it automatically categories the article in the general Surnames category, which is annoying when the surname is from a specific country/culture. This template needs to be altered so it doesn't automatically do this or an alternate template created that doesn't auto-categorizes (or this one shoudl have an option to categorize elsewhere). ∞ ΣɛÞ² ( τ| c) 08:28, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Why isn't a simple 'This page or section lists people with the same surname' sufficient? I might be missing something but it seems unnecessary to mention '...with the surname Xyz'. It also makes it necessary to pass a parameter for 'xyz (disambiguation)' pages, or when there multiple variants of the same name on a page. -- Fullstop ( talk) 22:38, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
I've been bold and added the disambiguation icon from {{ disambig}}, since these pages act like disambiguation pages and no internal links should point there. -- Ddxc ( talk) 16:02, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
User:Fullstop recently added a 'none' option available in order to accommodate a surname page addressing several variants of a surname. I will be reverting that change momentarily. I do think that Fullstop has a point that needs to be addressed; however, I do not think that 'none' is the right approach.
I would suggest one of three approaches
--User:Ceyockey ( talk to me) 00:45, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Following this confusion, I've folded nationality=, language=, nocat= into a comprehensive cat=, e.g. cat=<catname> or cat=none. The old nocat still exists but is no longer documented. -- Fullstop ( talk) 03:35, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
language=Italian
rather stating the whole category name: "I-ta-lian sur-names"?
16@r (
talk)
20:11, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
[[Category:{{#if:{{{cat|}}}|{{{cat|}}}|Surnames}}<nowiki>]]
[[Category:{{#if:{{{cat|}}}|{{#ifexist:Category:{{{cat}}} surnames|{{{cat}}} surnames|{{{cat}}}|}}|Surnames}}]]
Hallo, While working on Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting I came across Renyi, which had been given a {{ stub}} tag by the AlaiBot. I queried with the bot owner why this was, as it had a {{ surname}} tag (I was assuming then that this counted as one of the family of dab tags, as the page has exactly a dab format). Alai pointed out that the page had no categories. I see that the "surname" tag has a "nocat" parameter. Shouldn't the "surname" tag always give the article a category, so that people don't waste time trying to stub-sort it or allocate a category? Otherwise it's just going to get tagged as a stub again every month. PamD ( talk) 13:02, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
The discussion at Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation/Archive 27#Surname disambiguation and partial title matches has some discussion related to this template. Carcharoth ( talk) 14:09, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Bold change, after glancing at the instructions on two occasions and refusing to be distracted by enumerating the possible meanings of "link". This time, i put my finger on it. A link is:
I think Wikipedia:Manual of Style (links)#How to create links (lk'd by the accompanying tl) needs a 10-second tutorial on recognizing whether to modify target or piping (for first-time editors who believe "anyone can edit WP"), but that's a matter for another talk page. In place of
i'm putting
The total wording of the displayed tag is about 25% longer, but i think that's needed, to be clear without assuming that the distinction between target and piping will be understood.
The text this template creates is unnecessary. It's an extremely rare occurrence that an article will only have the last name of a person and will require correcting.-- brew crewer (yada, yada) 22:30, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
I'm trying to initiate some discussion regarding placement of this template on disambiguation pages at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (disambiguation pages)#surname and given name templates on dab pages. older ≠ wiser 13:05, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
{{
editprotected}}
— Preceding
unsigned comment added by
William Allen Simpson (
talk •
contribs)
Hi, could you please give some background/explanation to your request rather than just pasting the code you want applied? Cheers, — Martin ( MSGJ · talk) 07:55, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
See the denied request at
Wikipedia:Requests for page protection#Current requests for unprotection. Cydebot doesn't seem capable of finding and removing the old parameter categories after the
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2009 June 6#Category:Surnames by country, now red-linked. To do that, I'm adding temporary maintenance categories to collect those with nocat, cat=, language=, and nationality=; and then remove/replace by hand. (This should have been obvious from examination of the code diff.) After that, the parameters can be removed. This should take a week or so by hand.
--
William Allen Simpson (
talk)
09:25, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Nota Bene: The nocat parameter is only checked for parameter 1. This was done deliberately for script programming reasons. After all those are handled, Cat Scan will be used to detect those in parameter 2, and a different script will be used. Patience.
--
William Allen Simpson (
talk)
17:49, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Sorry for revert of recent possibly useful edit, but it deleted the usage of parameter "cat" which I was strongly advised to use quite recently.
If you have serious reasons to remove it, please edit all articles which use "surname|cat=" and insert the corresponding categories. - Altenmann >t 14:43, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
The problem is that historically it is difficult to figure out which exactly Slavic (or other non-Lithuanian) language was the origin. After more thought I suggest a reasonable combination would be category:Lithuanian-language surnames with sub- category:Surnames of Lithuanian-language origin. What do you think? By the way, what is your opinion about the category I introduced, Category:Given names of Greek language origin? I created it because I am thinking of merging various minuscule articles about given names, such as Helen, Elena, Helena, .... I did it, e.g., for Peter (first name)/ Piotr/ Pyotr. - Altenmann >t 17:04, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
Someone has added that this template should be on articles (as opposed to disambiguation pages?). Is that correct? Was that discussed? This seems quintissentially a disambiguation template (and is so categorized). Carlossuarez46 ( talk) 21:08, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
If an [{{fullurl:Special:WhatLinksHere/{{FULLPAGENAME}}|namespace=0}} internal link] ...
If an [{{fullurl:Special:WhatLinksHere/{{{page-title|{{FULLPAGENAME}}}}}|namespace=0}} internal link] ...
{{
editprotected}}
Change
This template should only be used in articles.
to
This template should only be used in [[Wikipedia:Main namespace|article (main) namespace]].
-- William Allen Simpson ( talk) 12:02, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
I'd go one step further and suggest:
This template should only be used in the [[Wikipedia:Main namespace|article (main namespace]]
— Deon talk 14:36, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
Unfortunately, the intervening suggestion was careless in typing – and in fixing the mistake, administrator making the change botched the closing parenthesis and dropped the full stop. The result is poor grammar and punctuation:
This template should only be used in the article (main namespace)
Change
in the [[Wikipedia:Main namespace|article (main namespace)]]
to
in the [[Wikipedia:Main namespace|article (main) namespace]].
-- William Allen Simpson ( talk) 11:33, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
According to this template, they are, and should therefore follow MOS:DP; but according to that MOS, surname pages are specifically excluded. If they don't need to follow MOS:DP, then specific guidance elsewhere on styling surname pages would be useful; if this guidance exists, I don't know where. Propaniac ( talk) 17:28, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
{{
editprotected}}
For
WP:ACCESSIBILITY to visually impaired readers, images that are purely decorative should not have links (see
WP:ALT #When to specify). Please implement this by adding "|link=
" to the obvious place in the decorative image as I
did to the sandbox. Thanks.
Eubulides (
talk)
16:52, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
Can somebody give this template the option to include more than one name? For example, articles that contain MacXXX and McXXX names? Or very similar spellings. This template doesn't stack too well, since there it leaves a huge gap. For example
McQueen (surname). See the big gap? Might as well have the two names in the same template. Whoops, there was no need for me to try and stack them, since we can add multiple names within the template!--
Brianann MacAmhlaidh (
talk)
07:25, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Could someone please bypass the piped redirect on the word "link" from Wikipedia:Linking to Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Linking? Thanks! — OwenBlacker ( Talk) 16:44, 3 January 2014 (UTC)