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Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | → | Archive 15 |
For example if we look at this template output:
The other entries have an internal wiki link too but worldcat only has an external link. For consistency and general usefulness an internal link for wc too would be nice. (Perhaps make the word Worldcat the int link and the word identities the ext link? to avoid repeating the word worldcat). Thanks for reading. 193.167.228.180 ( talk) 08:09, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
Can we add an argument to disable generation of WorldCat Identities links?
There are some works that have VIAF IDs but do not have a WorldCat Identities page. Some examples are video games in the BNF (National Library of France) namespace like No Man's Sky or Acts of Congress in the LCCN (Library of Congress) such as Digital Millennium Copyright Act.
Being able to set worldcatid=no to suppress generating that link would be helpful for those articles so that users don't see 404 errors on what are usually good links. William Graham talk 21:41, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
|WORLDCATID=
, similar to all other parameters. ~
Tom.Reding (
talk ⋅
dgaf)
11:18, 10 October 2018 (UTC)|WORLDCATID=
. I'm not familiar enough with these IDs (I'm just incrementally updating the code) to know if there's a way to automatically detect/confirm WORLDCATID existence. I'll try to write up and run a scan in the near-ish future to see how many 404s I find. ~
Tom.Reding (
talk ⋅
dgaf)
20:13, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
Do we have a version of this template that includes sister project links? The Español WP has a nice version—see bottom of this page, for example. czar 12:52, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
Would be nice to add Information Center for Israeli Art artist ID (P1736). For example Ya'acov Dorchin would get a link to [3]. Multichill ( talk) 15:20, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
{{
wdpl}}
to easily produce the property name + number + link like so:
Information Center for Israeli Art artist ID (P1736). ~
Tom.Reding (
talk ⋅
dgaf)
15:13, 18 November 2018 (UTC)The category name convention is as follows (ICIA used as the most recent example):
#4 is clearly an outlier, so I plan on converting all #4s to #5 to bring them in-line. ~ Tom.Reding ( talk ⋅ dgaf) 17:23, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
The module for this template (conditionally) emits a link to the "BIBSYS" topic. However, that's a redirect; it goes to "Bibsys". Maybe the name is stylized as "BIBSYS", but shouldn't the template link to "Bibsys" to avoid the reidrect? -- Mikeblas ( talk) 03:43, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
I'd like to request Terminologia anatomica (and some other fields) are added to the authority control template for anatomy articles. It's a widely used form of AC anatomically and currently included in all our anatomy article infoboxes. Would this be the right venue to propose this? -- Tom (LT) ( talk) 03:14, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
Would it be appropriate to make it possible to this template for works of popular music? I do anticipate it being somewhat problematic, since some identifiers for albums may/should be on separate edition items, and identifiers for songs (compositions) may/should be on separate recording/track and single/release items, so the template would have to indicate which identifiers belong to which entity. A lot of Wikidata's music identifiers are also for companies/services like Spotify rather than databases like Discogs. Jc86035's alternate account ( talk) 11:33, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
|MBA=
supersedes these, so any solution would have to include it as well in the change. The 3 or 4 character param name versions are superior to much longer param names due to ease of typing, and conform to all other param names, see
Module:Authority control/doc#Parameters, Wikidata properties, and tracking categories. ~
Tom.Reding (
talk ⋅
dgaf)
16:03, 27 November 2018 (UTC)Just to let you all know that I've closed the discussion about linking to Wikidata from June-July. The practical conclusion is that the pencil icon is accepted so no further action is required. ( WP:ANRFC) Deryck C. 15:30, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
Discogs is a commercial sales website and its discographies are user-generated with no editorial oversight. It is prohibited from use as a reliable source by Wikipedia policy WP:NOTRSMUSIC. It deserves no place in this template. KokoPhantom ( talk) 18:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
Please have an RfC (at VPP preferably). The claim that "there has largely been support for MusicBrainz remaining in the template" is not really accurate, the recent discussion about it at Wikipedia:External links/Noticeboard/Archive 21#MusicBrainz ended with 4 "drop it" (myself, Francis Schonken, JzG, Dirk Beetstra) and 6 "keep" (Legoktm, Pigsonthewing, Freso, AfroThundr3007730, JLJ001, Finnusertop). That's basically a "no consensus" with way too little input for something which is shown on 100,000 pages. Either a specific RfC for specific identifiers, or a general RfC about this template (many aspects need discussing, e.g. my proposal to show the names of the sources instead of the too short abbreviations plus IDs, or proposals to make this opt-in per article per identifier (removing ones which don't add anything for the readers on that article), or a requirement that an RfC should be had before any ID can be added to the template, or ...) For what it's worth, I oppose the inclusion of discogs in the template. Fram ( talk) 12:57, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
Any chance this template can have its own HTML id so it can be targeted for example by those wanting to hide, emphasize or do anything else programmatically with it? Currently it just has a navbox class and and one of the headers has what seems to be an autogenerated nonsensical id from its Aria role. Opencooper ( talk) 00:40, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
authority-control
class seems reasonable. Generally a bad idea to use IDs unless you can guarantee another of these won't show up on the same page. --
Izno (
talk)
01:10, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
|bodyclass=
but that's on the table which is the immediate child element to the div. We could still make that change in the mean time (that's just changing bodyclass = 'hlist',
to bodyclass = 'hlist authority-control',
). You could then hide the parent with Javascript (CSS does not have parent selectors). --
Izno (
talk)
20:56, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
{{#invoke:Authority control|authorityControl}}
to <div class="authority-control">{{#invoke:Authority control|authorityControl}}</div>
?
Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing);
Talk to Andy;
Andy's edits
22:05, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
|bodyclass=
, so that some enduser doesn't end up relying on it in the interim.
Opencooper (
talk)
23:53, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
The WorldCat field, which previously occupied the first position of the Authority control, now appears to be at the end (sorted alphabetically?). I would argue that the WorldCat field is the most practical field (and in my experience the most widely used) and thus should be first no matter what. It's not perfect, just like any of the other databases, but since it both presents works about a subject as well as by a subject, and provides links to library holdings and repositories, it's a valuable tool for researchers. Are there counterarguments? --Animalparty! ( talk) 21:44, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
Axochiapan links to https://www.worldcat.org/identities/lccn-no2013-005480 - 404: Document not found. 77.191.41.115 ( talk) 21:39, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
All humans in Category:Wikipedia articles with WorldCat-LCCN identifiers that I checked are in http://viaf.org/ and thus have a VIAF ID. What can be done to improve VIAF coverage in Wikidata? 77.183.254.147 ( talk) 19:08, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
User:Tagishsimon, User:Duncan.Hull - saw you on Wikidata human Abir Al-Tabaa [6]. Do you have any tool to add VIAF/ISNI in case LCCN is present? I found both in VIAF.org and added them [7]. Also a SPARQL query would be helpful if no other way is found, and it could directly link to VIAF.org via LCCN to avoid having to go via name search from. Example link via LCCN for no2006019061: http://viaf.org/processed/LC%7Cno2006019061 . I don't know how to construct links in result sets, so here is my try of a SPARQL query missing http-link to viaf.org . 1796 results. I added a VIAF for the first item in the list [8] - 39 sitelinks, including 37 Wikipedias which now can use the VIAF ID via Wikidata. 77.191.124.61 ( talk) 20:56, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
89.14.139.8 ( talk) 19:13, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
Tom.Reding, thanks a lot! As suspected LCCN is rarely used for WorldCat-linking (<0.25%):
And as suspected in most cases where it is used, it is missing the VIAF in Wikidata, I added several VIAF: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/77.191.41.115. And the other cases are sometimes incorrect links, e.g. Axochiapan (404), Asunción (cult. dept.). I suggest to drop LCCN for WorldCat and make WorldCat a sublink next to VIAF. 77.191.41.115 ( talk) 21:13, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
There is a
formatter URL (P1630) value for all authority properties (for example,
VIAF ID (P214) has a
formatter URL (P1630) value of https://viaf.org/viaf/$1
). I'm thinking of creating a local function to fetch this value, instead of having the URL hard-coded into the module. The current hard-coded-URL lines of code in the property functions (p.viafLink, etc.) would be modified with a call to the new local function, so hard-coded URLs will still be utilizable exactly how they currently are, if desired/as needed. Fetching the
formatter URL (P1630) value will 1) keep URLs current without the need for template-editor/admin intervention, 2) simplify the process of adding new parameters, and 3) be transparent to the current usage (i.e. no change to the functions', nor the main template's, current output). This is similar to the way {{
Taxonbar}} has operated for some time. FYI ping to
Reedy, who made all of these once-local property functions public. ~
Tom.Reding (
talk ⋅
dgaf)
22:42, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
I propose that we include Stuttgart Database of Scientific Illustrators 1450–1950 IDs ( P2349); for many scientific illustrators, they are the only IDs available. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:32, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
Now added; example at Robert F. Sternitzky. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:49, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
Should this template be placed on the next line after any navigation templates, or should a blank line separate this template from any navigation templates, or does it not matter? I tend to place this template on the next line after any navigation templates, but I wondered what other editors have thought about this. Biogeographist ( talk) 02:52, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
@ Littleolive oil, KokoPhantom, Nikkimaria, Fram, and Pigsonthewing: Please don't vote on this yet. Is there anything that should be changed about this? I've tried to make the voting have a balance between specific and simple, although maybe questions 5–10 could be left for a later RfC. Jc86035 ( talk) 18:27, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
The RfC is now open, with a few minor changes (the big template blocks are gone and the questions are now listed at the top). Jc86035 ( talk) 09:33, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
Extended content
|
---|
Broadly, what is the role of {{ Authority control}} – should it be expanded to include more external identifiers, or should it only link to authoritative databases? [Jc86035's signature] Background{{ Authority control}} is Wikipedia's authority control template, and is used on about 900,000 pages. Most identifiers are automatically transcluded from Wikidata. Wikidata has about 3,439 external identifier properties, and {{ Authority control}} uses 54 (1.6%) of them. In previous years, there has been some discussion on Template talk:Authority control regarding adding other types of external links. However, none of those discussions have resulted in changes to the template. Currently, all identifiers except those for MusicBrainz are for non-commercial authoritative bibliographic databases. I (Jc86035) added identifiers for MusicBrainz, Discogs, AllMusic and IMDb last week, on the grounds that there was already a MusicBrainz identifier (which was added in 2013 by Legoktm). I was able to do this because I am a template editor and did not get reverted by another template editor. The four aforementioned databases are either user-generated or commercially operated, and are less clearly "authority control" than the other linked databases. KokoPhantom contested my addition of the Discogs identifiers on the talk page. (I have since removed the new identifiers except for the MusicBrainz ones, pending consensus.) The Russian Wikipedia's version of the template ("Template:External links") has a rather larger variety of external links, including identifiers for Twitter, GitHub, Anime News Network, IGN, Find a Grave and Encyclopædia Britannica Online. (However, they are all shown separately to the "authority control" section.) As an example, the ruwiki and enwiki templates for Judi Dench are shown below: (Group name translations: Thematic sites; Dictionaries and encyclopedias; Regulatory control. Not shown: Social networks; Photo, video and audio.) SurveyQuestions 1, 3 and 4 are intended to be yes/no questions.
If the result is in favour for questions 1, 3 or 4, then the template would be changed to show non-authoritative links in different sections (as in the Russian Wikipedia's template), and new identifiers would be added for those categories. The template's name may stay the same to avoid confusion. Depending on the results for questions 2 and 3, the MusicBrainz links may be removed. [one section for each, with support/oppose votes to be included in the same section] [discussion section] |
This RFC appears to have been archived without being closed. See the VPP archive. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 14:47, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
See the close at
DannyS712 performed a Wikipedia:Non-admin closure which seems great. This happened on 5 February 2019 and included alerts to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure and Wikipedia:Village pump (policy).
I am x-posting here also because this is the concerned channel. Blue Rasberry (talk) 19:00, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
Moved from User talk:Bellerophon5685
Please use edit summaries. It really helps monitoring watchlists and article histories. Thanks. Renata ( talk) 02:56, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
- I'm also wondering whether it wouldn't be easier to have a bot do this. And I also wonder about the use of this. I've seen you add it to dozens of articles on academic journals, cluttering up my watchlist, but that template doesn't actually seem to do anything on those articles. -- Randykitty ( talk) 18:42, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
SecondedThirded. If I see an edit headed only "External links" I have to go and check in case some ****** **** has spammed a link to their brand-new sales website. If it says "added Authority Control" I roll over and go back to sleep. Please use some consideration for the volunteer time of other editors, and please follow this basic and helpful guideline.
- I have no idea which tool you may be using, but it should be easy to add a standardised edit comment. If nothing else, once you have added "added Authority Control" once, you only have to type "a" in the summary box and the comment will pop up. Just a suggestion. Chiswick Chap ( talk) 08:22, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
- And I removed that template here where it did have an effect, but inserted a link to a music (!!) index that just had copied this very article. Wikidata imports that crap without any apparent oversight and puts it on our pages with this template. -- Randykitty ( talk) 08:49, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
- Hi, can you please respond to the above? Why are you adding this template to articles like this if it has no visible effect? What are we missing? If you are adding these empty templates preemptively (per this) and no one else has already asked, please desist until there is consensus that this is how the template should be handled. I see no reason to spam book articles with authority control with the hopes that someone will add DNB or something to populate it later. (I see little reason to add it to a book article even when DNB is specified...) Please form consensus before continuing to systematically add this template. czar 04:19, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
Moved from User talk:Czar
I already explained this on the noticeboard, where I thought the issue was settled - I added the Authority control to articles to see if they have wkidata already - this happened, for instance, on the page for the American Academy of Arts and Letters. Some pages do not have wikidata already, so I add it to the bottem of the page so that it will be ready if and when wikidata is created. Note that I also add it while also doing routine editing on a page, for instance the The Literary Voyager.-- Bellerophon5685 ( talk) 00:53, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
If you looked closely at those edits, you will notice that there was more than just adding AC, there were categorizations, inter-language linking, and many of them actually HAD wikidata, or, if they didn't, the AC was removed. Exactly what do you want me to do?-- Bellerophon5685 ( talk) 16:14, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
Mosfilm and Lenfilm were perfectly legitimate edits, as the authority control linked to wikidata. Rheinische Volkspflege had noting to do with Authority control at all. I never added it, so why was that reverted?-- Bellerophon5685 ( talk) 16:22, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
So even on articles that legitimately have wikidata, I can't add authority control? And I can't edit categories?-- Bellerophon5685 ( talk) 16:22, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
My edits on Deutschland erwacht - Ein Dokument von der Wiedergeburt Deutschlands were also rolled back, even though I never added Authority control that page, just provided an interlanguage link to the German wiki for one of the people in the film.-- Bellerophon5685 ( talk) 16:26, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
OK, of the edits reverted the following had nothing to do with the AC template at all
The following legitimately had wikidata
This list might get bigger-- Bellerophon5685 ( talk) 16:36, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
( edit conflict)@ Randykitty: The template's documentation states:
If there is no information in Wikidata for the specific subject, an empty instance of this template will be dormant, meaning it will be invisible on the rendered page. Thus, using this template on a page with no authority information is harmless.
An empty instance of this template stays dormant in an article, until values are added to Wikidata, when it will then display them, so this template should be added to all biographies, whether or not there are authority control identifiers in Wikidata already.
The second paragraph was added on 3 January 2015 by Pigsonthewing; the first paragraph was added on 15 December 2016 by Rfc1394. Presumably, this means that this has been accepted consensus for more than four years, and it is appropriate to add the template even if it does not produce any content.
In the specific case of MusicBrainz, over the years MineoBot has incorrectly added a small but significant number of incorrect links at Wikidata due to the inverse links existing in MusicBrainz, which is also editable by the general public (there has regardless been consensus that MusicBrainz should be linked to with this template). The easiest way to fix the incorrect links is to remove them from the Wikidata items, and logged-in MusicBrainz users can submit edits to remove the inverse links so that the bot doesn't add them again. Jc86035 ( talk) 17:00, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
I really don't see how it hurts anything - it is just a 21 character tag that is invisible to the reader. Also, the only way I know of to see if an item does have wikidata is by adding it, so one needs to either use preview, or delete in the next edit. It would be fast just to added it to as many articles as possible, those that have wikidata will have it displayed, those without will have the tag for if and when wikidata is added. And if wikidata isn't added - it is still just an invisible 21 character tag. It won't damage the article.-- Bellerophon5685 ( talk) 18:51, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
One last thing: how is an editor to know whether an article already has {{Authority control}} if it doesn't have Wikidata items to show? -- Michael Bednarek ( talk) 07:17, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
While I'm surprised to see an entry for an academic journal in Musicbrainz, I want to clear up an apparent misapprehension in this discussion: The purpose of {{ Authority control}} is not necessarily to link to useful content on other sites (though often it does), but to show the identifiers that they use. Where the page on the external site is empty, or merely replicates what we have on Wikipedia, the identifier is nonetheless still of value. The page at Authority control (to which the template also links) gives further context; as does Wikipedia:Authority control. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:08, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
Why are you removing my AC templates on Conn. counties? Each one had wikidata, so it wasn't like they were blank.-- Bellerophon5685 ( talk) 00:53, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
So are we ever going to find Wikipedia:Consensus here, or are all ac templates on pages without wikidata banned?-- Bellerophon5685 ( talk) 19:03, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
As far as I can tell, in 2013 this template was converted to Lua, and its subtemplates were made obsolete. Is there consensus at this page that it is acceptable to delete the subpages? If so, I will nominate the following list for deletion. There are still a couple of transclusions out there, but they can be dealt with by substing or conversion to more appropriate code.
I am not attached to any particular outcome. The reason I am posting this is that I am working with a few other editors to find, research, and possibly delete unused templates. Thanks in advance for your thoughts. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 07:10, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
Can you also remove these subtemplates that are not longueur useful, please? Tpt (talk) 07:13, 11 May 2013" which is the last comment in the section linked above (by Tpt who initially wrote Module:Authority control). At the time of that comment, the subtemplates were as at permalink. Johnuniq ( talk) 09:08, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
This page links to "WorldCat Identities", which is a redirect to "WorldCat". Is there a reason it shouldn't directly link to "WorldCat"? -- Mikeblas ( talk) 18:58, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
This change is a problem because www.worldcat.org/identities/ is not the same as "WorldCat". Calling it that creates confusion about OCLC's brand.Also, WorldCat Identities now links to the first section of WorldCat in which it's mentioned. ~ Tom.Reding ( talk ⋅ dgaf) 17:25, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
Semantic Scholar is a free, non-profit search engine for peer-reviewed research, with over 42 million papers indexed and analysed. I have found it very useful. I propose that we add Semantic Scholar author ID (P4012) to this template. Semantic Scholar paper ID (P4011) may also be of interest. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:30, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
|S2=
or |SS=
? ~
Tom.Reding (
talk ⋅
dgaf)
17:11, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
While editing the article Henry Moskowitz (activist), a "Warning: Page using Template:Authority control with "VIAF", please move this to Wikidata if possible (this message is shown only in preview)." displayed on the screen. Also, there are two Template:Authority control assigned to this article and both have this warning message. I don't know how to fix this issue.
(Note: This issue was first report on Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) in section " Authority control issue"). Mitchumch ( talk) 00:25, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | → | Archive 15 |
For example if we look at this template output:
The other entries have an internal wiki link too but worldcat only has an external link. For consistency and general usefulness an internal link for wc too would be nice. (Perhaps make the word Worldcat the int link and the word identities the ext link? to avoid repeating the word worldcat). Thanks for reading. 193.167.228.180 ( talk) 08:09, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
Can we add an argument to disable generation of WorldCat Identities links?
There are some works that have VIAF IDs but do not have a WorldCat Identities page. Some examples are video games in the BNF (National Library of France) namespace like No Man's Sky or Acts of Congress in the LCCN (Library of Congress) such as Digital Millennium Copyright Act.
Being able to set worldcatid=no to suppress generating that link would be helpful for those articles so that users don't see 404 errors on what are usually good links. William Graham talk 21:41, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
|WORLDCATID=
, similar to all other parameters. ~
Tom.Reding (
talk ⋅
dgaf)
11:18, 10 October 2018 (UTC)|WORLDCATID=
. I'm not familiar enough with these IDs (I'm just incrementally updating the code) to know if there's a way to automatically detect/confirm WORLDCATID existence. I'll try to write up and run a scan in the near-ish future to see how many 404s I find. ~
Tom.Reding (
talk ⋅
dgaf)
20:13, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
Do we have a version of this template that includes sister project links? The Español WP has a nice version—see bottom of this page, for example. czar 12:52, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
Would be nice to add Information Center for Israeli Art artist ID (P1736). For example Ya'acov Dorchin would get a link to [3]. Multichill ( talk) 15:20, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
{{
wdpl}}
to easily produce the property name + number + link like so:
Information Center for Israeli Art artist ID (P1736). ~
Tom.Reding (
talk ⋅
dgaf)
15:13, 18 November 2018 (UTC)The category name convention is as follows (ICIA used as the most recent example):
#4 is clearly an outlier, so I plan on converting all #4s to #5 to bring them in-line. ~ Tom.Reding ( talk ⋅ dgaf) 17:23, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
The module for this template (conditionally) emits a link to the "BIBSYS" topic. However, that's a redirect; it goes to "Bibsys". Maybe the name is stylized as "BIBSYS", but shouldn't the template link to "Bibsys" to avoid the reidrect? -- Mikeblas ( talk) 03:43, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
I'd like to request Terminologia anatomica (and some other fields) are added to the authority control template for anatomy articles. It's a widely used form of AC anatomically and currently included in all our anatomy article infoboxes. Would this be the right venue to propose this? -- Tom (LT) ( talk) 03:14, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
Would it be appropriate to make it possible to this template for works of popular music? I do anticipate it being somewhat problematic, since some identifiers for albums may/should be on separate edition items, and identifiers for songs (compositions) may/should be on separate recording/track and single/release items, so the template would have to indicate which identifiers belong to which entity. A lot of Wikidata's music identifiers are also for companies/services like Spotify rather than databases like Discogs. Jc86035's alternate account ( talk) 11:33, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
|MBA=
supersedes these, so any solution would have to include it as well in the change. The 3 or 4 character param name versions are superior to much longer param names due to ease of typing, and conform to all other param names, see
Module:Authority control/doc#Parameters, Wikidata properties, and tracking categories. ~
Tom.Reding (
talk ⋅
dgaf)
16:03, 27 November 2018 (UTC)Just to let you all know that I've closed the discussion about linking to Wikidata from June-July. The practical conclusion is that the pencil icon is accepted so no further action is required. ( WP:ANRFC) Deryck C. 15:30, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
Discogs is a commercial sales website and its discographies are user-generated with no editorial oversight. It is prohibited from use as a reliable source by Wikipedia policy WP:NOTRSMUSIC. It deserves no place in this template. KokoPhantom ( talk) 18:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
Please have an RfC (at VPP preferably). The claim that "there has largely been support for MusicBrainz remaining in the template" is not really accurate, the recent discussion about it at Wikipedia:External links/Noticeboard/Archive 21#MusicBrainz ended with 4 "drop it" (myself, Francis Schonken, JzG, Dirk Beetstra) and 6 "keep" (Legoktm, Pigsonthewing, Freso, AfroThundr3007730, JLJ001, Finnusertop). That's basically a "no consensus" with way too little input for something which is shown on 100,000 pages. Either a specific RfC for specific identifiers, or a general RfC about this template (many aspects need discussing, e.g. my proposal to show the names of the sources instead of the too short abbreviations plus IDs, or proposals to make this opt-in per article per identifier (removing ones which don't add anything for the readers on that article), or a requirement that an RfC should be had before any ID can be added to the template, or ...) For what it's worth, I oppose the inclusion of discogs in the template. Fram ( talk) 12:57, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
Any chance this template can have its own HTML id so it can be targeted for example by those wanting to hide, emphasize or do anything else programmatically with it? Currently it just has a navbox class and and one of the headers has what seems to be an autogenerated nonsensical id from its Aria role. Opencooper ( talk) 00:40, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
authority-control
class seems reasonable. Generally a bad idea to use IDs unless you can guarantee another of these won't show up on the same page. --
Izno (
talk)
01:10, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
|bodyclass=
but that's on the table which is the immediate child element to the div. We could still make that change in the mean time (that's just changing bodyclass = 'hlist',
to bodyclass = 'hlist authority-control',
). You could then hide the parent with Javascript (CSS does not have parent selectors). --
Izno (
talk)
20:56, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
{{#invoke:Authority control|authorityControl}}
to <div class="authority-control">{{#invoke:Authority control|authorityControl}}</div>
?
Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing);
Talk to Andy;
Andy's edits
22:05, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
|bodyclass=
, so that some enduser doesn't end up relying on it in the interim.
Opencooper (
talk)
23:53, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
The WorldCat field, which previously occupied the first position of the Authority control, now appears to be at the end (sorted alphabetically?). I would argue that the WorldCat field is the most practical field (and in my experience the most widely used) and thus should be first no matter what. It's not perfect, just like any of the other databases, but since it both presents works about a subject as well as by a subject, and provides links to library holdings and repositories, it's a valuable tool for researchers. Are there counterarguments? --Animalparty! ( talk) 21:44, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
Axochiapan links to https://www.worldcat.org/identities/lccn-no2013-005480 - 404: Document not found. 77.191.41.115 ( talk) 21:39, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
All humans in Category:Wikipedia articles with WorldCat-LCCN identifiers that I checked are in http://viaf.org/ and thus have a VIAF ID. What can be done to improve VIAF coverage in Wikidata? 77.183.254.147 ( talk) 19:08, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
User:Tagishsimon, User:Duncan.Hull - saw you on Wikidata human Abir Al-Tabaa [6]. Do you have any tool to add VIAF/ISNI in case LCCN is present? I found both in VIAF.org and added them [7]. Also a SPARQL query would be helpful if no other way is found, and it could directly link to VIAF.org via LCCN to avoid having to go via name search from. Example link via LCCN for no2006019061: http://viaf.org/processed/LC%7Cno2006019061 . I don't know how to construct links in result sets, so here is my try of a SPARQL query missing http-link to viaf.org . 1796 results. I added a VIAF for the first item in the list [8] - 39 sitelinks, including 37 Wikipedias which now can use the VIAF ID via Wikidata. 77.191.124.61 ( talk) 20:56, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
89.14.139.8 ( talk) 19:13, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
Tom.Reding, thanks a lot! As suspected LCCN is rarely used for WorldCat-linking (<0.25%):
And as suspected in most cases where it is used, it is missing the VIAF in Wikidata, I added several VIAF: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/77.191.41.115. And the other cases are sometimes incorrect links, e.g. Axochiapan (404), Asunción (cult. dept.). I suggest to drop LCCN for WorldCat and make WorldCat a sublink next to VIAF. 77.191.41.115 ( talk) 21:13, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
There is a
formatter URL (P1630) value for all authority properties (for example,
VIAF ID (P214) has a
formatter URL (P1630) value of https://viaf.org/viaf/$1
). I'm thinking of creating a local function to fetch this value, instead of having the URL hard-coded into the module. The current hard-coded-URL lines of code in the property functions (p.viafLink, etc.) would be modified with a call to the new local function, so hard-coded URLs will still be utilizable exactly how they currently are, if desired/as needed. Fetching the
formatter URL (P1630) value will 1) keep URLs current without the need for template-editor/admin intervention, 2) simplify the process of adding new parameters, and 3) be transparent to the current usage (i.e. no change to the functions', nor the main template's, current output). This is similar to the way {{
Taxonbar}} has operated for some time. FYI ping to
Reedy, who made all of these once-local property functions public. ~
Tom.Reding (
talk ⋅
dgaf)
22:42, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
I propose that we include Stuttgart Database of Scientific Illustrators 1450–1950 IDs ( P2349); for many scientific illustrators, they are the only IDs available. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:32, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
Now added; example at Robert F. Sternitzky. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:49, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
Should this template be placed on the next line after any navigation templates, or should a blank line separate this template from any navigation templates, or does it not matter? I tend to place this template on the next line after any navigation templates, but I wondered what other editors have thought about this. Biogeographist ( talk) 02:52, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
@ Littleolive oil, KokoPhantom, Nikkimaria, Fram, and Pigsonthewing: Please don't vote on this yet. Is there anything that should be changed about this? I've tried to make the voting have a balance between specific and simple, although maybe questions 5–10 could be left for a later RfC. Jc86035 ( talk) 18:27, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
The RfC is now open, with a few minor changes (the big template blocks are gone and the questions are now listed at the top). Jc86035 ( talk) 09:33, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
Extended content
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Broadly, what is the role of {{ Authority control}} – should it be expanded to include more external identifiers, or should it only link to authoritative databases? [Jc86035's signature] Background{{ Authority control}} is Wikipedia's authority control template, and is used on about 900,000 pages. Most identifiers are automatically transcluded from Wikidata. Wikidata has about 3,439 external identifier properties, and {{ Authority control}} uses 54 (1.6%) of them. In previous years, there has been some discussion on Template talk:Authority control regarding adding other types of external links. However, none of those discussions have resulted in changes to the template. Currently, all identifiers except those for MusicBrainz are for non-commercial authoritative bibliographic databases. I (Jc86035) added identifiers for MusicBrainz, Discogs, AllMusic and IMDb last week, on the grounds that there was already a MusicBrainz identifier (which was added in 2013 by Legoktm). I was able to do this because I am a template editor and did not get reverted by another template editor. The four aforementioned databases are either user-generated or commercially operated, and are less clearly "authority control" than the other linked databases. KokoPhantom contested my addition of the Discogs identifiers on the talk page. (I have since removed the new identifiers except for the MusicBrainz ones, pending consensus.) The Russian Wikipedia's version of the template ("Template:External links") has a rather larger variety of external links, including identifiers for Twitter, GitHub, Anime News Network, IGN, Find a Grave and Encyclopædia Britannica Online. (However, they are all shown separately to the "authority control" section.) As an example, the ruwiki and enwiki templates for Judi Dench are shown below: (Group name translations: Thematic sites; Dictionaries and encyclopedias; Regulatory control. Not shown: Social networks; Photo, video and audio.) SurveyQuestions 1, 3 and 4 are intended to be yes/no questions.
If the result is in favour for questions 1, 3 or 4, then the template would be changed to show non-authoritative links in different sections (as in the Russian Wikipedia's template), and new identifiers would be added for those categories. The template's name may stay the same to avoid confusion. Depending on the results for questions 2 and 3, the MusicBrainz links may be removed. [one section for each, with support/oppose votes to be included in the same section] [discussion section] |
This RFC appears to have been archived without being closed. See the VPP archive. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 14:47, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
See the close at
DannyS712 performed a Wikipedia:Non-admin closure which seems great. This happened on 5 February 2019 and included alerts to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure and Wikipedia:Village pump (policy).
I am x-posting here also because this is the concerned channel. Blue Rasberry (talk) 19:00, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
Moved from User talk:Bellerophon5685
Please use edit summaries. It really helps monitoring watchlists and article histories. Thanks. Renata ( talk) 02:56, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
- I'm also wondering whether it wouldn't be easier to have a bot do this. And I also wonder about the use of this. I've seen you add it to dozens of articles on academic journals, cluttering up my watchlist, but that template doesn't actually seem to do anything on those articles. -- Randykitty ( talk) 18:42, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
SecondedThirded. If I see an edit headed only "External links" I have to go and check in case some ****** **** has spammed a link to their brand-new sales website. If it says "added Authority Control" I roll over and go back to sleep. Please use some consideration for the volunteer time of other editors, and please follow this basic and helpful guideline.
- I have no idea which tool you may be using, but it should be easy to add a standardised edit comment. If nothing else, once you have added "added Authority Control" once, you only have to type "a" in the summary box and the comment will pop up. Just a suggestion. Chiswick Chap ( talk) 08:22, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
- And I removed that template here where it did have an effect, but inserted a link to a music (!!) index that just had copied this very article. Wikidata imports that crap without any apparent oversight and puts it on our pages with this template. -- Randykitty ( talk) 08:49, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
- Hi, can you please respond to the above? Why are you adding this template to articles like this if it has no visible effect? What are we missing? If you are adding these empty templates preemptively (per this) and no one else has already asked, please desist until there is consensus that this is how the template should be handled. I see no reason to spam book articles with authority control with the hopes that someone will add DNB or something to populate it later. (I see little reason to add it to a book article even when DNB is specified...) Please form consensus before continuing to systematically add this template. czar 04:19, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
Moved from User talk:Czar
I already explained this on the noticeboard, where I thought the issue was settled - I added the Authority control to articles to see if they have wkidata already - this happened, for instance, on the page for the American Academy of Arts and Letters. Some pages do not have wikidata already, so I add it to the bottem of the page so that it will be ready if and when wikidata is created. Note that I also add it while also doing routine editing on a page, for instance the The Literary Voyager.-- Bellerophon5685 ( talk) 00:53, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
If you looked closely at those edits, you will notice that there was more than just adding AC, there were categorizations, inter-language linking, and many of them actually HAD wikidata, or, if they didn't, the AC was removed. Exactly what do you want me to do?-- Bellerophon5685 ( talk) 16:14, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
Mosfilm and Lenfilm were perfectly legitimate edits, as the authority control linked to wikidata. Rheinische Volkspflege had noting to do with Authority control at all. I never added it, so why was that reverted?-- Bellerophon5685 ( talk) 16:22, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
So even on articles that legitimately have wikidata, I can't add authority control? And I can't edit categories?-- Bellerophon5685 ( talk) 16:22, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
My edits on Deutschland erwacht - Ein Dokument von der Wiedergeburt Deutschlands were also rolled back, even though I never added Authority control that page, just provided an interlanguage link to the German wiki for one of the people in the film.-- Bellerophon5685 ( talk) 16:26, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
OK, of the edits reverted the following had nothing to do with the AC template at all
The following legitimately had wikidata
This list might get bigger-- Bellerophon5685 ( talk) 16:36, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
( edit conflict)@ Randykitty: The template's documentation states:
If there is no information in Wikidata for the specific subject, an empty instance of this template will be dormant, meaning it will be invisible on the rendered page. Thus, using this template on a page with no authority information is harmless.
An empty instance of this template stays dormant in an article, until values are added to Wikidata, when it will then display them, so this template should be added to all biographies, whether or not there are authority control identifiers in Wikidata already.
The second paragraph was added on 3 January 2015 by Pigsonthewing; the first paragraph was added on 15 December 2016 by Rfc1394. Presumably, this means that this has been accepted consensus for more than four years, and it is appropriate to add the template even if it does not produce any content.
In the specific case of MusicBrainz, over the years MineoBot has incorrectly added a small but significant number of incorrect links at Wikidata due to the inverse links existing in MusicBrainz, which is also editable by the general public (there has regardless been consensus that MusicBrainz should be linked to with this template). The easiest way to fix the incorrect links is to remove them from the Wikidata items, and logged-in MusicBrainz users can submit edits to remove the inverse links so that the bot doesn't add them again. Jc86035 ( talk) 17:00, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
I really don't see how it hurts anything - it is just a 21 character tag that is invisible to the reader. Also, the only way I know of to see if an item does have wikidata is by adding it, so one needs to either use preview, or delete in the next edit. It would be fast just to added it to as many articles as possible, those that have wikidata will have it displayed, those without will have the tag for if and when wikidata is added. And if wikidata isn't added - it is still just an invisible 21 character tag. It won't damage the article.-- Bellerophon5685 ( talk) 18:51, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
One last thing: how is an editor to know whether an article already has {{Authority control}} if it doesn't have Wikidata items to show? -- Michael Bednarek ( talk) 07:17, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
While I'm surprised to see an entry for an academic journal in Musicbrainz, I want to clear up an apparent misapprehension in this discussion: The purpose of {{ Authority control}} is not necessarily to link to useful content on other sites (though often it does), but to show the identifiers that they use. Where the page on the external site is empty, or merely replicates what we have on Wikipedia, the identifier is nonetheless still of value. The page at Authority control (to which the template also links) gives further context; as does Wikipedia:Authority control. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:08, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
Why are you removing my AC templates on Conn. counties? Each one had wikidata, so it wasn't like they were blank.-- Bellerophon5685 ( talk) 00:53, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
So are we ever going to find Wikipedia:Consensus here, or are all ac templates on pages without wikidata banned?-- Bellerophon5685 ( talk) 19:03, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
As far as I can tell, in 2013 this template was converted to Lua, and its subtemplates were made obsolete. Is there consensus at this page that it is acceptable to delete the subpages? If so, I will nominate the following list for deletion. There are still a couple of transclusions out there, but they can be dealt with by substing or conversion to more appropriate code.
I am not attached to any particular outcome. The reason I am posting this is that I am working with a few other editors to find, research, and possibly delete unused templates. Thanks in advance for your thoughts. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 07:10, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
Can you also remove these subtemplates that are not longueur useful, please? Tpt (talk) 07:13, 11 May 2013" which is the last comment in the section linked above (by Tpt who initially wrote Module:Authority control). At the time of that comment, the subtemplates were as at permalink. Johnuniq ( talk) 09:08, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
This page links to "WorldCat Identities", which is a redirect to "WorldCat". Is there a reason it shouldn't directly link to "WorldCat"? -- Mikeblas ( talk) 18:58, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
This change is a problem because www.worldcat.org/identities/ is not the same as "WorldCat". Calling it that creates confusion about OCLC's brand.Also, WorldCat Identities now links to the first section of WorldCat in which it's mentioned. ~ Tom.Reding ( talk ⋅ dgaf) 17:25, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
Semantic Scholar is a free, non-profit search engine for peer-reviewed research, with over 42 million papers indexed and analysed. I have found it very useful. I propose that we add Semantic Scholar author ID (P4012) to this template. Semantic Scholar paper ID (P4011) may also be of interest. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:30, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
|S2=
or |SS=
? ~
Tom.Reding (
talk ⋅
dgaf)
17:11, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
While editing the article Henry Moskowitz (activist), a "Warning: Page using Template:Authority control with "VIAF", please move this to Wikidata if possible (this message is shown only in preview)." displayed on the screen. Also, there are two Template:Authority control assigned to this article and both have this warning message. I don't know how to fix this issue.
(Note: This issue was first report on Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) in section " Authority control issue"). Mitchumch ( talk) 00:25, 29 March 2019 (UTC)