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Please see the novel. I'm not sure who considered the Decameron 'the first novel', but it sure isn't considered that any more. It *might* be considered the first novel written in Western Europe in the Renaissance, but it is later than, for example, Apuleius in Latin (a clear model for all Renaissance prose authors) or the Tale of Genji in Japanese. Boccaccio will have to rest on his own merits, not on 'priority'. --MichaelTinkler
I have changed that part. Does "The Decameron played a part in the history of the novel" sound neutral enough to everyone? -- 15lsoucy ( talk) 05:57, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
Some of this article reads like a machine translation. Anyone have any idea where the original might be? Al 11:59, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
Heh, it's almost like it has been babelfish'd English-Italian-English-Japanese... I'll edit it to the best of my ability, but it hasn't merely got spelling and grammatical errors - the sense is often hard to determine.
The impact of the Decameron is often overlooked by English speakers. Stories from it appear in works by authors like Shakespeare, Chaucer, and many, many others, often through a chain of translations, retellings, and modernizations. I'll look around for some exact information, but if others could start looking for others who borrowed from this work, I think that the article would be greatly enriched. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.182.216.157 ( talk • contribs) .
Ha ha! I finally did it, like I promised. I added a sources/influences section that should be a useful addition to the article. —This unsigned comment was added by 67.169.251.248 ( talk • contribs) .
The introduction to this article almost seems to downplay the significance of these works. For instance if you look at the introduction to The Canterbury Tales, the last sentence reads, "The tales are considered to be his magnum opus, and one of the most influential works in Western literature." However the Decameron is described as "Bawdy" and only an "important" historical work even though it was completed two decades before The Canterbury Tales. 68.9.219.228 23:02, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
I see no mention of Baldasare Castiglione's Book of the courtier, which likewise uses the framework of a group gathering repeatedly (in the court of Urbino) and telling stories, with a theme each evening (e.g. one evening on humour, dominated by Bembo). This must surely have been influenced by the Decameron – can someone find a source that discusses the connection ? Eddy, 84.215.9.172 ( talk) 15:23, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
On sept 7th an anon user 67.67.120.228 took all of a few minutes of their day to dump a huge amount of non-sensical machine translated text into the article. The copy can be found here should anyone care to clean it up (good luck). Until then, what was a perfectly understandable vernacular English language, if not brief, article has been restored. Stbalbach 16:49, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
I've finished my work on the sources/influences section. Now I'm working on the Summary of Decameron tales article. If anyone could expand the commentary or make comments on the talk page, I'd appreciate that.-- 67.169.251.248 10:05, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Quoting the article:
"The famous first tale (I, 1) of the notorious Saint Ciappelletto was later translated into Latin by Olimpia Fulvia Morata and translated again by Voltaire. Molière later drew upon the latter translation to create the title character of Tartuffe."
But surely Molière (17th century) preceded Voltaire (18th century), so how could the former have been influenced by the latter's translation? 84.55.112.38 20:25, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
Can someone translate the names of the seven characters to help us understand how they are "pseudonyms chosen as 'appropriate to the qualities of each'"?
The Seven Women:
The Three Men:
Sorry I'm such an ignoramus. Thank you. MishaPan 23:57, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Hello! Here is a translation based on the Italian wikipedia article on the Decameron. I hope you find it useful! Pampinea:(luxuriant), Filomena: (the loved one), Neifile :(new lover), Fiametta: (Boccaccio’s loved one, froma fiamma ,that is “flame”), Elisa: (other name to Dido), Lauretta (Petrarca’s loved one)Filostrato: (defeated by love), Dioneo (lustful), Emilia and Panfilo (all love). Isabel2014 ( talk) 13:35, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
One thing the article doesn't go into is how often Bocaccio anticipates modern "Enlightment" ideas. The two tales of Jews (I, 2 and 3) both inspire the audience to sympathize with minorities whose religious freedom is attacked. In (VI, 7) a woman on trial argues that it is unjust to judge a woman under laws made only by men. In (III, 2) the listeners praise a king who uses clever detective work rather than midieval torture to solve a crime (and when torture is used in another story, the listeners know that the victim is innocent). The collection isn't just bawdiness. CharlesTheBold 01:34, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
The film with Hayden Christensen and Mischa Barton should be mentioned. The Wikipedia page of Virgin Territory says so. Aixduran 12:06, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
"Shakespeare probably first read a French translation of the tale in William Painter's Palace of Pleasure." Should that be "... of the tale, translated into English in ..."? Errantios ( talk) 08:21, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
I did not see in the article where it says whether original versions exist, or if we are relying on transcriptions and translations? PitOfBabel 17:08, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
While Decameron certainly is a medieval text, I can't understand why it is defined "allegorical". Some numerological element and the symbolic names of the narrators (in the frame tale) are not sufficient to underestimate the realistic characters and background that Boccaccio put in his novellas, often stressing himself the historical reality of persons or families he talks about. -- Broletto ( talk) 20:05, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
I agree. A lot of elements in the Decameron are certainly figurative and carry some symbolism, but this isn't allegory of the order of, say, Le Roman de la Rose or Piers Plowman. TomODonnell ( talk) 20:33, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
Before editing the phrase, I would like to receive some other opinion about the definition" Medieval allegorical text". -- Broletto ( talk) 11:16, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
Is there a reason that there are no citations for any of this information? ( Lonerdottiearebel ( talk) 23:36, 14 April 2008 (UTC))
I've removed this infobox from the top of the article:
Author | Giovanni Boccaccio |
---|---|
Country | Italy |
Genre | Novel |
Publisher | Oneworld Classics |
Publication date | 2008 |
ISBN | 978-1-84749-057-5 |
The box was added by Daniel Seton on 11 Aug 2008. The book exists.
155.198.213.89 ( talk) 08:46, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
Decameron could be derived from δέκα and μέρος part, meaning having ten parts. It would better explain the form, without resorting to non standard compounding. This etymology is my own, not supported by authorities on Boccaccio nor etymology. -- 88.101.16.63 ( talk) 21:13, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
I believe Decameron is better understood as "10 days". "Deka" meaning ten,
http://www.searchgodsword.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=1176,
http://www.kypros.org/cgi-bin/lexicon, and "hēméra" meaning "day",
http://www.omniglot.com/language/phrases/days2.php,
http://www.ude.net/bible/SR_Luke23.htm. This translation is also supported here:
http://fajardo-acosta.com/worldlit/boccaccio/decameron.htm.
In the Egyptian novelist Dr. Ahmed Khaled Towfik novels series "Ma Waraa Al Tabiaa" Each nine books, the tenth is made in a special episodic way called the horror circle. The horror circles are series of short stories narrated by different characters, Dr. Ahmed Khaled Towfik him self say he take that from "The Decameron". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.22.24.34 ( talk) 16:49, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
Is there any reason for a paragraph under "Description" to be repeated almost verbatim in "Analysis"? Maladroitmortal ( talk) 03:12, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
i agree the Description version should be removed as the Analysis has some extra useful info explaining the italian names of the women. (forgot to login) user teknotiss —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.154.17.117 ( talk) 18:43, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
The Greek name would not be τὸ δεκάμερον, but rather τὸ δεκαήμερον, just as St. Basil the Great's homilies on the six days of creation are called τὸ ἑξαήμερον. The κ and the rough breathing of ἡμέρα would be separated by the vowel, and would therefore not create χ, as the article now indicates when it says that the title classical Greek would be δεχημερον. Also, for what it's worth, the title is not a portmanteau, it's simply a compound word formed according to basic patterns of Greek vocabulary. 136.242.166.205 ( talk) 19:28, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
Each day also includes a short introduction and conclusion to continue the frame of the tales by describing other daily activities besides story-telling. These frame tale interludes frequently include transcriptions of Italian folk songs.
What does this mean? What does transcription refer to here? Just how are the Italian folk songs included in the frame tales? Could the sentence be reworked to use another word?
The Wiktionary page for wikt:transcription quotes this article as an example, and it's a bit unclear of just what it is an example of. (Does the Wiktionary entry need updating? Is it perhaps missing a definition?) 194.237.142.20 ( talk) 09:37, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
The section has no quotations at all, and it presents one homogenous view, as if it was based on the opinions of a single scholar, or the foreword of one specific edition.— Austriacus ( talk) 20:57, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
Hello! I have contributed with an image of one of Boccaccio's novels by a contemporary artist. I think it is important to show how's Boccaccio work is alive through the centuries and continues to inspire artists. This is the link to the image:
Give me your opinion. Thank you! Eneaspicol ( talk) 20:39, 19 December 2013 (UTC) Nice picture Eneaspicol! ( Isabel2014 ( talk) 00:52, 21 December 2013 (UTC))
According to Snow Rise's own definition in an edit comment here,
"Vernacular=contextual dialect of another language" (my emphasis).
In the present case, the "contextual dialect" is Florentine and "another language" is Latin. In other words, here:
the vernacular [of Latin] = the Florentine language/dialect.
The formulation insisted upon by Snow Rise is:
"Written in the vernacular of the Florentine language..." (my emphasis).
To me this appears wrong. The phrasing I originally used while working on the lead (as IP 86.168.48.247) [1] was:
"Written in the vernacular (the language of Florence)..."
86.141.190.114 ( talk) 07:10, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
maybe i'm just a dumb idiot, but could we maybe get a synopsis in this article? 70.171.203.51 ( talk) 04:35, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
Please see the novel. I'm not sure who considered the Decameron 'the first novel', but it sure isn't considered that any more. It *might* be considered the first novel written in Western Europe in the Renaissance, but it is later than, for example, Apuleius in Latin (a clear model for all Renaissance prose authors) or the Tale of Genji in Japanese. Boccaccio will have to rest on his own merits, not on 'priority'. --MichaelTinkler
I have changed that part. Does "The Decameron played a part in the history of the novel" sound neutral enough to everyone? -- 15lsoucy ( talk) 05:57, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
Some of this article reads like a machine translation. Anyone have any idea where the original might be? Al 11:59, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
Heh, it's almost like it has been babelfish'd English-Italian-English-Japanese... I'll edit it to the best of my ability, but it hasn't merely got spelling and grammatical errors - the sense is often hard to determine.
The impact of the Decameron is often overlooked by English speakers. Stories from it appear in works by authors like Shakespeare, Chaucer, and many, many others, often through a chain of translations, retellings, and modernizations. I'll look around for some exact information, but if others could start looking for others who borrowed from this work, I think that the article would be greatly enriched. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.182.216.157 ( talk • contribs) .
Ha ha! I finally did it, like I promised. I added a sources/influences section that should be a useful addition to the article. —This unsigned comment was added by 67.169.251.248 ( talk • contribs) .
The introduction to this article almost seems to downplay the significance of these works. For instance if you look at the introduction to The Canterbury Tales, the last sentence reads, "The tales are considered to be his magnum opus, and one of the most influential works in Western literature." However the Decameron is described as "Bawdy" and only an "important" historical work even though it was completed two decades before The Canterbury Tales. 68.9.219.228 23:02, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
I see no mention of Baldasare Castiglione's Book of the courtier, which likewise uses the framework of a group gathering repeatedly (in the court of Urbino) and telling stories, with a theme each evening (e.g. one evening on humour, dominated by Bembo). This must surely have been influenced by the Decameron – can someone find a source that discusses the connection ? Eddy, 84.215.9.172 ( talk) 15:23, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
On sept 7th an anon user 67.67.120.228 took all of a few minutes of their day to dump a huge amount of non-sensical machine translated text into the article. The copy can be found here should anyone care to clean it up (good luck). Until then, what was a perfectly understandable vernacular English language, if not brief, article has been restored. Stbalbach 16:49, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
I've finished my work on the sources/influences section. Now I'm working on the Summary of Decameron tales article. If anyone could expand the commentary or make comments on the talk page, I'd appreciate that.-- 67.169.251.248 10:05, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Quoting the article:
"The famous first tale (I, 1) of the notorious Saint Ciappelletto was later translated into Latin by Olimpia Fulvia Morata and translated again by Voltaire. Molière later drew upon the latter translation to create the title character of Tartuffe."
But surely Molière (17th century) preceded Voltaire (18th century), so how could the former have been influenced by the latter's translation? 84.55.112.38 20:25, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
Can someone translate the names of the seven characters to help us understand how they are "pseudonyms chosen as 'appropriate to the qualities of each'"?
The Seven Women:
The Three Men:
Sorry I'm such an ignoramus. Thank you. MishaPan 23:57, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Hello! Here is a translation based on the Italian wikipedia article on the Decameron. I hope you find it useful! Pampinea:(luxuriant), Filomena: (the loved one), Neifile :(new lover), Fiametta: (Boccaccio’s loved one, froma fiamma ,that is “flame”), Elisa: (other name to Dido), Lauretta (Petrarca’s loved one)Filostrato: (defeated by love), Dioneo (lustful), Emilia and Panfilo (all love). Isabel2014 ( talk) 13:35, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
One thing the article doesn't go into is how often Bocaccio anticipates modern "Enlightment" ideas. The two tales of Jews (I, 2 and 3) both inspire the audience to sympathize with minorities whose religious freedom is attacked. In (VI, 7) a woman on trial argues that it is unjust to judge a woman under laws made only by men. In (III, 2) the listeners praise a king who uses clever detective work rather than midieval torture to solve a crime (and when torture is used in another story, the listeners know that the victim is innocent). The collection isn't just bawdiness. CharlesTheBold 01:34, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
The film with Hayden Christensen and Mischa Barton should be mentioned. The Wikipedia page of Virgin Territory says so. Aixduran 12:06, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
"Shakespeare probably first read a French translation of the tale in William Painter's Palace of Pleasure." Should that be "... of the tale, translated into English in ..."? Errantios ( talk) 08:21, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
I did not see in the article where it says whether original versions exist, or if we are relying on transcriptions and translations? PitOfBabel 17:08, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
While Decameron certainly is a medieval text, I can't understand why it is defined "allegorical". Some numerological element and the symbolic names of the narrators (in the frame tale) are not sufficient to underestimate the realistic characters and background that Boccaccio put in his novellas, often stressing himself the historical reality of persons or families he talks about. -- Broletto ( talk) 20:05, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
I agree. A lot of elements in the Decameron are certainly figurative and carry some symbolism, but this isn't allegory of the order of, say, Le Roman de la Rose or Piers Plowman. TomODonnell ( talk) 20:33, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
Before editing the phrase, I would like to receive some other opinion about the definition" Medieval allegorical text". -- Broletto ( talk) 11:16, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
Is there a reason that there are no citations for any of this information? ( Lonerdottiearebel ( talk) 23:36, 14 April 2008 (UTC))
I've removed this infobox from the top of the article:
Author | Giovanni Boccaccio |
---|---|
Country | Italy |
Genre | Novel |
Publisher | Oneworld Classics |
Publication date | 2008 |
ISBN | 978-1-84749-057-5 |
The box was added by Daniel Seton on 11 Aug 2008. The book exists.
155.198.213.89 ( talk) 08:46, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
Decameron could be derived from δέκα and μέρος part, meaning having ten parts. It would better explain the form, without resorting to non standard compounding. This etymology is my own, not supported by authorities on Boccaccio nor etymology. -- 88.101.16.63 ( talk) 21:13, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
I believe Decameron is better understood as "10 days". "Deka" meaning ten,
http://www.searchgodsword.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=1176,
http://www.kypros.org/cgi-bin/lexicon, and "hēméra" meaning "day",
http://www.omniglot.com/language/phrases/days2.php,
http://www.ude.net/bible/SR_Luke23.htm. This translation is also supported here:
http://fajardo-acosta.com/worldlit/boccaccio/decameron.htm.
In the Egyptian novelist Dr. Ahmed Khaled Towfik novels series "Ma Waraa Al Tabiaa" Each nine books, the tenth is made in a special episodic way called the horror circle. The horror circles are series of short stories narrated by different characters, Dr. Ahmed Khaled Towfik him self say he take that from "The Decameron". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.22.24.34 ( talk) 16:49, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
Is there any reason for a paragraph under "Description" to be repeated almost verbatim in "Analysis"? Maladroitmortal ( talk) 03:12, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
i agree the Description version should be removed as the Analysis has some extra useful info explaining the italian names of the women. (forgot to login) user teknotiss —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.154.17.117 ( talk) 18:43, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
The Greek name would not be τὸ δεκάμερον, but rather τὸ δεκαήμερον, just as St. Basil the Great's homilies on the six days of creation are called τὸ ἑξαήμερον. The κ and the rough breathing of ἡμέρα would be separated by the vowel, and would therefore not create χ, as the article now indicates when it says that the title classical Greek would be δεχημερον. Also, for what it's worth, the title is not a portmanteau, it's simply a compound word formed according to basic patterns of Greek vocabulary. 136.242.166.205 ( talk) 19:28, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
Each day also includes a short introduction and conclusion to continue the frame of the tales by describing other daily activities besides story-telling. These frame tale interludes frequently include transcriptions of Italian folk songs.
What does this mean? What does transcription refer to here? Just how are the Italian folk songs included in the frame tales? Could the sentence be reworked to use another word?
The Wiktionary page for wikt:transcription quotes this article as an example, and it's a bit unclear of just what it is an example of. (Does the Wiktionary entry need updating? Is it perhaps missing a definition?) 194.237.142.20 ( talk) 09:37, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
The section has no quotations at all, and it presents one homogenous view, as if it was based on the opinions of a single scholar, or the foreword of one specific edition.— Austriacus ( talk) 20:57, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
Hello! I have contributed with an image of one of Boccaccio's novels by a contemporary artist. I think it is important to show how's Boccaccio work is alive through the centuries and continues to inspire artists. This is the link to the image:
Give me your opinion. Thank you! Eneaspicol ( talk) 20:39, 19 December 2013 (UTC) Nice picture Eneaspicol! ( Isabel2014 ( talk) 00:52, 21 December 2013 (UTC))
According to Snow Rise's own definition in an edit comment here,
"Vernacular=contextual dialect of another language" (my emphasis).
In the present case, the "contextual dialect" is Florentine and "another language" is Latin. In other words, here:
the vernacular [of Latin] = the Florentine language/dialect.
The formulation insisted upon by Snow Rise is:
"Written in the vernacular of the Florentine language..." (my emphasis).
To me this appears wrong. The phrasing I originally used while working on the lead (as IP 86.168.48.247) [1] was:
"Written in the vernacular (the language of Florence)..."
86.141.190.114 ( talk) 07:10, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
maybe i'm just a dumb idiot, but could we maybe get a synopsis in this article? 70.171.203.51 ( talk) 04:35, 24 September 2017 (UTC)