Scouts BSA was one of the Social sciences and society good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
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This subarticle is kept separate from the main article, Boy Scouts of America, due to size or style considerations. |
Styles: This is an article about the Boy Scouts of America. In addition to standard style guides, the Language of Scouting is also used. |
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The Middle Tennessee Council Boy Scouts of America website specifically uses the term Scouts BSA over the term Boy Scouts. You can see this here: "Camp and Outdoor Programs". - Mrwoogi010 ( talk • contribs) 03:15, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
Can this be discussed here? It is a fact that the program name changed on Feb 1 to reflect the membership requirement change. Scouts BSA seems the best name to me, not sure why it was changed back to Boy Scouting Geodude86 ( talk) 18:26, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
In general, BSA is transitioning into allow girls into all of it's programs. (previously they were not allowed in its largest programs.) Another big factor is that the Girl Scouts organization is not happy about it. And BSA is being hyper-cautious to avoid people using terminology that poaches from the Girl Scouts. So, for example, you can never say that the girls in BSA are girl scouts.
The two biggest BSA programs are the two that previously didn't allow girls. One was Cub Scouts, the other was Boy Scouts. This was the second meaning of "Boy Scouts" so one is the overall organization (Boy Scouts of America) and the other was the specific program for boys roughly in the 10 1/2 - 16 year old age range. The latter is being renamed to "Scouts (BSA)" The Cub Scouts program started taking girls last year and the Scouts (BSA) (formerly "Boy Scouts") program is starting to take girls sometime around now. There is still partial separation by sexes within the programs. I forgot the details....whether packs or dens or troops or patrols are sex-specific. Scouts BSA (Boy Scouts of America) looks right. The title that it is redirected to ( Boy Scouting (Boy Scouts of America)) the article that I'm writing this talk page post into looks wrong. This is a condensed duplication from my posts at WP Project Scouting. Sincerely, North8000 ( talk) 19:55, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Page moved back to long-standing title per WP:RMUM. Participants are free to make a new RM request with the long-standing title as the status quo. ( non-admin closure) -- Netoholic @ 19:47, 5 February 2019 (UTC) Netoholic @ 19:47, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
It was proposed in this section that
Scouts BSA be
renamed and moved to
Boy Scouting (Boy Scouts of America).
The discussion has been closed, and the result will be found in the closer's comment. Links:
current log •
target log |
Scouts BSA → Boy Scouting (Boy Scouts of America) – to get dispute sorted. Anthony Appleyard ( talk) 12:24, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
Somebody closed the discussion hours after it was opened and moved the article again. So the title is not the name of the program, not descriptive of the program, and in direct conflict with the (correct) body of the article.
The official name of the overall organization is "Boy Scouts of America" (abbreviated "BSA") and it has not changed. The article for that organization is [[Boy Scouts of America". This article is about one of the programs of that organization.
The official name of the BSA program which this article is about has changed to "Scouts BSA". And now it allows girls. So "Boy Scouting" or "Boy Scouts" is no longer the name of that program , nor is it descriptive of the program. So the proposed move is wrong on both counts. So, the current "Scouts BSA" is accurate. I think that "Scouts BSA (Boy Scouts of America)" would also be correct, even clearer, and in line with the previous format of including then name of the organization after the name of the program. North8000 ( talk) 19:55, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
I am outraged. You do realize that this was proposed and then closed with the move occurring entirely during the time when some of us, including me, were asleep? -- Bduke ( talk) 21:19, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
Let's move past the wild crap that has been happening and have a non-rushed careful discussion on the article name.
My thoughts: The official name of the overall organization is "Boy Scouts of America" (abbreviated "BSA") and it has not changed. The article for that organization is Boy Scouts of America. This article is about one of the programs of that organization. The official name of the BSA program which this article is about has changed to "Scouts BSA". And now it allows girls. So "Boy Scouting" or "Boy Scouts" is no longer the name of that program, nor is it descriptive of the program, and, on both of these points, would be in direct conflict with the (correct) content of the article. So, "Scouts BSA" is accurate. I think that "Scouts BSA (Boy Scouts of America)" would also be correct, even clearer, and in line with the previous format of including the name of the organization after the name of the program.North8000 ( talk) 20:54, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
The way to have a "proper debate" on a page name move is to follow the instructions at Wikipedia:Requested moves#Requesting controversial and potentially controversial moves. This creates a listing which will attract the participation of editors outside your WikiProject and who don't follow this page already. -- Netoholic @ 21:41, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: consensus to move the page to Scouts BSA at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 23:26, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
Boy Scouting (Boy Scouts of America) → ? – Let's discuss this dispute formally here. Anthony Appleyard ( talk) 22:58, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
Now that the naming discussion seems to be resolved(?) it seems that the majority of the references on the page are 10 years old or more. Some more recent images would be beneficial also. Geodude86 ( talk) 01:03, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
Venture patrol is gone. If anyone is using it, it's not official and only anecdotal. -- Eagleinflight ( talk) 21:22, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
Even other areas (e.g. Scrum refer to the Boy Scout rule - see Technical debt). However, under the Scouts BSA page I don't find this. Thanks to anyone trying to weave this in. ---- Bernburgerin ( talk) 05:02, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
This article is missing a history section. There are scattered historical comments, but that is inadequate. Kdammers ( talk) 23:22, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
This isn't an /the article about the Boy Scouts of America this is an article about a mere program within the BSA. Plans and expectations should keep that in mind.
Regarding history, since it started out as the sole program of the BSA, early history would be a duplication of that of the BSA. The "changes" to that status are not changes to the topic of this article, they are creation of other programs within the BSA while this / the original program continued. Sincerely, North8000 ( talk) 13:08, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
There is very little detail about how girls became a part of what used to be called "Boy Scouts". There is a history section with one unsourced sentence. If one or more editors could improve the article, that would be great. I just want to see what others say.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 22:32, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
Scouts BSA was one of the Social sciences and society good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
This subarticle is kept separate from the main article, Boy Scouts of America, due to size or style considerations. |
Styles: This is an article about the Boy Scouts of America. In addition to standard style guides, the Language of Scouting is also used. |
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The Middle Tennessee Council Boy Scouts of America website specifically uses the term Scouts BSA over the term Boy Scouts. You can see this here: "Camp and Outdoor Programs". - Mrwoogi010 ( talk • contribs) 03:15, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
Can this be discussed here? It is a fact that the program name changed on Feb 1 to reflect the membership requirement change. Scouts BSA seems the best name to me, not sure why it was changed back to Boy Scouting Geodude86 ( talk) 18:26, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
In general, BSA is transitioning into allow girls into all of it's programs. (previously they were not allowed in its largest programs.) Another big factor is that the Girl Scouts organization is not happy about it. And BSA is being hyper-cautious to avoid people using terminology that poaches from the Girl Scouts. So, for example, you can never say that the girls in BSA are girl scouts.
The two biggest BSA programs are the two that previously didn't allow girls. One was Cub Scouts, the other was Boy Scouts. This was the second meaning of "Boy Scouts" so one is the overall organization (Boy Scouts of America) and the other was the specific program for boys roughly in the 10 1/2 - 16 year old age range. The latter is being renamed to "Scouts (BSA)" The Cub Scouts program started taking girls last year and the Scouts (BSA) (formerly "Boy Scouts") program is starting to take girls sometime around now. There is still partial separation by sexes within the programs. I forgot the details....whether packs or dens or troops or patrols are sex-specific. Scouts BSA (Boy Scouts of America) looks right. The title that it is redirected to ( Boy Scouting (Boy Scouts of America)) the article that I'm writing this talk page post into looks wrong. This is a condensed duplication from my posts at WP Project Scouting. Sincerely, North8000 ( talk) 19:55, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Page moved back to long-standing title per WP:RMUM. Participants are free to make a new RM request with the long-standing title as the status quo. ( non-admin closure) -- Netoholic @ 19:47, 5 February 2019 (UTC) Netoholic @ 19:47, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
It was proposed in this section that
Scouts BSA be
renamed and moved to
Boy Scouting (Boy Scouts of America).
The discussion has been closed, and the result will be found in the closer's comment. Links:
current log •
target log |
Scouts BSA → Boy Scouting (Boy Scouts of America) – to get dispute sorted. Anthony Appleyard ( talk) 12:24, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
Somebody closed the discussion hours after it was opened and moved the article again. So the title is not the name of the program, not descriptive of the program, and in direct conflict with the (correct) body of the article.
The official name of the overall organization is "Boy Scouts of America" (abbreviated "BSA") and it has not changed. The article for that organization is [[Boy Scouts of America". This article is about one of the programs of that organization.
The official name of the BSA program which this article is about has changed to "Scouts BSA". And now it allows girls. So "Boy Scouting" or "Boy Scouts" is no longer the name of that program , nor is it descriptive of the program. So the proposed move is wrong on both counts. So, the current "Scouts BSA" is accurate. I think that "Scouts BSA (Boy Scouts of America)" would also be correct, even clearer, and in line with the previous format of including then name of the organization after the name of the program. North8000 ( talk) 19:55, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
I am outraged. You do realize that this was proposed and then closed with the move occurring entirely during the time when some of us, including me, were asleep? -- Bduke ( talk) 21:19, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
Let's move past the wild crap that has been happening and have a non-rushed careful discussion on the article name.
My thoughts: The official name of the overall organization is "Boy Scouts of America" (abbreviated "BSA") and it has not changed. The article for that organization is Boy Scouts of America. This article is about one of the programs of that organization. The official name of the BSA program which this article is about has changed to "Scouts BSA". And now it allows girls. So "Boy Scouting" or "Boy Scouts" is no longer the name of that program, nor is it descriptive of the program, and, on both of these points, would be in direct conflict with the (correct) content of the article. So, "Scouts BSA" is accurate. I think that "Scouts BSA (Boy Scouts of America)" would also be correct, even clearer, and in line with the previous format of including the name of the organization after the name of the program.North8000 ( talk) 20:54, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
The way to have a "proper debate" on a page name move is to follow the instructions at Wikipedia:Requested moves#Requesting controversial and potentially controversial moves. This creates a listing which will attract the participation of editors outside your WikiProject and who don't follow this page already. -- Netoholic @ 21:41, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: consensus to move the page to Scouts BSA at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 23:26, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
Boy Scouting (Boy Scouts of America) → ? – Let's discuss this dispute formally here. Anthony Appleyard ( talk) 22:58, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
Now that the naming discussion seems to be resolved(?) it seems that the majority of the references on the page are 10 years old or more. Some more recent images would be beneficial also. Geodude86 ( talk) 01:03, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
Venture patrol is gone. If anyone is using it, it's not official and only anecdotal. -- Eagleinflight ( talk) 21:22, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
Even other areas (e.g. Scrum refer to the Boy Scout rule - see Technical debt). However, under the Scouts BSA page I don't find this. Thanks to anyone trying to weave this in. ---- Bernburgerin ( talk) 05:02, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
This article is missing a history section. There are scattered historical comments, but that is inadequate. Kdammers ( talk) 23:22, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
This isn't an /the article about the Boy Scouts of America this is an article about a mere program within the BSA. Plans and expectations should keep that in mind.
Regarding history, since it started out as the sole program of the BSA, early history would be a duplication of that of the BSA. The "changes" to that status are not changes to the topic of this article, they are creation of other programs within the BSA while this / the original program continued. Sincerely, North8000 ( talk) 13:08, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
There is very little detail about how girls became a part of what used to be called "Boy Scouts". There is a history section with one unsourced sentence. If one or more editors could improve the article, that would be great. I just want to see what others say.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 22:32, 15 October 2020 (UTC)